Best – and Worst – of Times

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2023 Honda Civic Type R
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Honda just announced the pending availability – for the 2023 model year – of the most powerful production car it has ever offered for sale in the United States.

And it’s a Civic.

One with 315 horsepower.

This is astounding . . . Because it’s a Civic. Honda’s entry level economy car.

Yes, it’s a special Civic – the Type R. But a Civic, nonetheless. That “nonetheless” not being derogatory in the least. The opposite, in fact. What’s next? 1,000 horsepower Corvettes? Actually, come to think of it, we’re not far from that. The current Corvette comes standard with almost 500 horsepower – upgradable to 650 horsepower. Dodge’s Hellcat Charger and Challenger offer up close to 800 – which is within spitting distance of 1,000 horsepower.

If you can spit that far.

Not many can.

The Corvette’s base price is $64,200. A Hellcat Charger starts at $75,900. And the new Type-R Civic starts at $42,895 – only twice as much as the price of the base Civic. On the upside, you get twice as much power – and get to 60 in the high four second range – which is quicker than every Corvette made from the first one back in the mid-1950s all the way through the early 2000s.

And it’s a Civic, remember.

It’s like putting 50 cents into a vending machine and – instead of getting a can of Coke – you get a bottle of really good champagne. Of course, Coke machines don’t dispense soda for 50 cents a can anymore, either. More like a buck fifty. And while you’re getting a lot for your money when it comes to the Civic Type R, how many have that kind of money?

To spend on a  . . . Civic?

Which is a young person’s car.

It is, after all, a Civic.

A car that was designed to be a first car, which usually means a young person’s car. This is still the case with the standard Civic, which lists for $22,550. But the Type R costs twice that   . . . and it’s still a Civic. The most powerful Civic ever, to be sure. One of the most powerful and highest-performing cars ever made, too.

But when all is said and done, it’s still a Civic – and not many people who aren’t already middle-aged are likely to be in a position to spend twice the cost of a standard Civic on this Civic. Not to mention the additional cost of insuring a car like the Type R, which is likely to amount to thousands more – annually – for drivers who aren’t already middle-aged and older.

This is why it’s almost universally true that whenever you see a car like the Type-R or a new Corvette, it is driven by someone middle-aged or older. The under-30s have been priced out of what was – once-upon-a-time – the youth market. This was the market mined by Lee Iacocca and John DeLorean back in the ’60s. Iacocca took the Falcon – an entry-level economy car – and made a Mustang out of it, specifically made to appeal to young people.

Very young people.

As in people just graduating from high school. Late teenagers.

DeLorean – over at GM’s Pontiac division did the same, using a basic car (the Tempest) as the basis for what became the GTO, the 1964 equivalent of the 2023 Civic Type R. But there was an important difference. In 1964 – the first year for the GTO – the base price of the car was $2,491.  Even adjusted for Joe Biden (and the “Federal” Reserve which is “federal” like Bruce is female) the ’64 GTO only cost $23,927.

Interestingly, this is only slightly more costly than the cost of the current – basic – Civic. The one that does not have a 315 horsepower engine. The ’64 GTO came standard with a 325 horsepower V8 engine. It was also a much-larger car than the Civic; a full-size car by modern downsized standards.

It was, admittedly, a much more basic car than the Civic – even the basic (non-Type R) Civic. It did not come standard with air conditioning, power windows and locks and no amount of money would have bought you a ’64 GTO with an LCD touchscreen or even one air bag.

But that is precisely why the youth of 1964 could afford the GTO – and the Mustang – and the fleet of emulators that quickly followed when it became apparent that there was a huge market for cars like the GTO and Mustang.

A young market.

GTOs were not for the gray-haired – as they are, today. As – for the most part – cars like the new Type R  and Corvette and Hellcat Challenger also are, today. They are all very nice cars, in addition to being almost-surreally powerful cars. The new Type R’s performance makes the old GTO’s look almost palsied in comparison, notwithstanding the V8’s menacing rumble.

But it’s not likely you’ll see many just-out-of-high-school youths behind the wheel of a new Type R – unless their parents bought the car for them. In fact, you aren’t likely to see many Type Rs, period – because there are only so many parents in a position to buy one for their kid and only so many middle-aged and older people who would buy a car like this for themselves.

Cars like this, in general, having become specialty-verging-on-exotic rather than mass-market cars, as the GTO and Mustang were, once. The latter sold in numbers proportionate to the number of $23k economy cars are sold today. You saw Mustangs and GTOs (and 442s and Road Runners) everywhere, usually with a kid not long out of high school behind the wheel.

Today, you see cars like the Type R rarely. And almost always with a gray-hair behind the wheel. This bodes not well for the future of such cars – because most of the market for such cars won’t be around for much longer.

Or will be in nursing homes, at any rate.

The shame – just the right word – is that it would be easy for Honda to offer a car like the ’64 GTO – one that young people could afford to buy – if Honda could build one with just the equipment that makes the Type R powerful and quick, without all the rest of the equipment (such as the six air bags it comes standard with) that makes it cost twice as much as it needs to.

But Honda can’t do that.

Because it’s no longer 1964 – and it’s illegal to do that.

The federal regulatory apparat says it can’t. The apparat didn’t exist in 1964. There was no middle man (with a gun) in between the car companies and car buyers. Whether you think “safety” – and so on – are important isn’t the point. The point is you’re no longer free to decide how much you’re willing to pay for such things – because the government decrees how much you will pay for such things.

Of course, there is a limit to how much people can pay for such things. Which is why it is probable very few people – who aren’t verging on being old people – will be able to pay for the new Type R Civic.

Notwithstanding how impressive a car it is.

. . .

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44 COMMENTS

  1. Interesting article but why no mention of the increase in MSRP of the civic type R from $34,775 in 2017 to $42,895 per the article in 2023?

    As a former 2018 owner that paid MSRP, the 2023 is not a performance bargain, while the 2017/2018/2019 models were, if you were able to avoid paying ADM at the stealership, which is its own separate article.

    This is a 19% price increase for a very marginal improvement in performance.

    • These cars are approaching $100k in the SF Bay Area at these stealerships.

      I put down $10k for a Z06 corvette the day they were announced, before pricing was known, at a local dealer. The deal was, that $10k was markup, and once the cars are available, I’m at the head of the line, and paying MSRP. The dealer then called me back saying that markups are $40k now, and I can agree to that, or get to the back of the line. No scruples from these people. I got my money back and won’t be getting a Z06 until they make enough to meet demand.

      • Hi OL,

        $100k-plus for a new Corvette? I’d far rather spend half as much on a perfect condition ’78 L-82 Corvette. Is it as quick? No. Does it handle as well? Of course not.

        But it is much more appealing than an over-priced, over-teched new Corvette that you can’t even shift for yourself. And forget about working on, yourself.

        This is why I love my Trans-Am. The thing is almost alive. It has personality. And that is what makes it appealing.

        • I jumbled two complaints together. Civic Type R’s are approaching $100k at SF Bay Area dealers after markups.

          The Corvettes are like $130k+ MSRP, and dealers are marking them up to close to $200k.

          • Hi OL,

            That’s (as the youth sez) sick… and not in a good way. The Corvette was once an American performance car that ordinary Americans could aspire to owning. Today? It’s just another exotic. There’s a ’79 Corvette for sale near me. I am not sure whether it’s an L-82 or four speed car. If it is, I’d rather have it than three new Corvettes – even if GM gave them to me.

            And $100k for a Civic? Not unless it’s painted gold – literally, with gold.

            • Modern corvettes are still great performance machines. I’ve never driven a C8 yet, but I have coached drivers at the track in C7’s and I had the chance to drive a couple, and I love em. They are built cheaply, the body and interiors are low quality, but a lot of money went into the engine and chassis and it shows. It’s Ferrari or McLaren performance for 1/3 the money.

              In the days when a Camry can top $50k, three times as much for one of the highest performance cars ever built isn’t so bad.

              Granted, it’s too rich for me. I bought a used Cayenne Turbo as a fun V8 car and tow vehicle, and I’m going to fully track prep a cheaper car with slicks and roll cage and make a fine track car that’s not street legal. Hell, maybe I’ll even splurge and get a Radical SR8. Used Cayenne Turbo + used Radical SR8 + trailer still comes in at a lot less than the MSRP of a Z06 corvette before markups.

    • Other thing is parts are available for it, and all the issues are mostly documented and worked out.

      If I were looking for a CTR, I’d get those years and call it a day, use the price savings to address the cooling issues (Heard that was an issue), and then any areas I also felt needed improvement.

      Curious btw, what other issues needed to be addressed besides cooling

  2. If you want a really quick hot hatch get a VW GTI and modify it, here is a Mk 2 Golf GTI that is quicker then anything 0 to 200 kmh except an F1 car……..

    DSG VW Golf Mk2 4 motion (AWD) 1233HP powered by a VW 4 cyl turbo engine

    0 to 100 kph = 1.66 sec
    100 to 200 kph = 2.74 sec.
    0 to 200 kph = 4.4 sec.
    1/4 mile 8.26 sec. 170 mph

    Porsche 919 Hybrid EVO (Mk II) 8.3 sec. 1/4 mile
    The Porsche 919 Hybrid EVO (Mk II) is the quickest car in the world on some tracks.

    The 4 motor $2.4 million Rimac EV 1/4 mile 8.58 sec. The quickest EV in the world, quicker then the tesla plaid.
    The drive train in this will be in the new Bugatti, VW AUDI Group bought Rimac.

    The only car quicker 0 to 200 kph is a $250 million dollar F1 car 0 to 200 kph = 4.1 sec.

    0 to 200 km in seconds

    Porsche gt2 rs 8.3

    caterham 620r 313 hp 10.1

    donkervoort gto Audi 5cyl 370 hp 7.8
    (Super 7 clone)

    HKT Super 7 Audi 1.8 20vt 400 hp 7.5
    (Super 7 clone)

    tesla plaid 6.3

    Bugatti Chiron 6.3

    mclaren senna 6.8

    c8 corvette 12

    f40 10.4

    Porsche 919 hybrid EVO 4.5
    (quickest car in the world other then F1, on some tracks quicker then F1).

    VW ID R electric race car 5.0
    (quickest car in the world at Pike’s peak and Goodwood hill climb)

    F1 4.1

    F2 6.6

    F3 7.8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7t4C_0BZT4

  3. When you consider that Ford sold a million copies of the Mustang the first two years of it’s existence, yeah the Type R will never come close in sales. Even if the deck wasn’t stacked against it, it would still be a big challenge.

    An amazing amount of those Mustangs still exist today too, but that is the advantage of huge sales like that. Mustangs are pretty common at car shows today, and likely will be for a long time. There are junkyards and warehouses filled with Mustang parts and accessories. Heck, if you have $250k to blow, you can get a brand new “1964” Mustang reproduction.

    So yup, Type R’s won’t be at every car show in forty years. Guessing many won’t even make it to thirty years of age.

    New vehicle sales in the US is about 17 million sold. The only single new vehicle that comes close to selling that amount today are the Ford F series pickups. If you told a auto executive back in the 1960’s that pickups would be the biggest sellers today, he would likely laugh at you.

    • Hi Rich,

      In re pickups sales: I suspect that’s going to tank, too. Trucks like the F-150 used to be less expensive than cars. Now they are much more expensive than the average car. They routinely transact for $60k-plus and even the “base” models start around $40k. Factor in the reduced buying power of money and I don’t see how this can continue… as a mass market thing, at any rate – $40k being more than half the average family’s annual income.

      I have always thought it would be interesting to wave a magic wand and see how the landscape wold change if everyone had to live within their means rather than by using debt to finance their lifestyle.

  4. This Honda Civic type R might be cleaner then an EV….lol

    ‘Zero Emissions’ From Electric Vehicles? Here’s Why That Claim Has Zero Basis

    95.1% of all electrical energy comes from so called dirty non green sources
    (green source solar and wind supply 4.9%)….

    The 4.9% green isn’t green…….lol
    solar panels, lithium batteries and wind turbines are all catching fire, they are very dangerous…

    morons claim that electric vehicles are a “zero emissions” solution that can significantly mitigate the effects of climate change.

    there is no such thing as a zero-emissions vehicle….EV’s are coal burning remote external combustion engines…

    Adding up the environmental costs and benefits of electric cars requires complex computer modeling to calculate an EV’s lifetime carbon footprint, which depends on a host of assumptions and inputs.

    crooked, defective, rigged, fraudulent computer modeling is used to get results showing EV’s are not dirty polluters, EV’s are worse polluters, then the modern super clean, .00001% emission ice cars…

    The cradle-to-grave analysis must factor in industrial processing, refining, manufacturing, recycling, and electricity generation. The upshot: More greenhouse gases are emitted in the manufacture of EVs than by the drilling, refining, smelting, and assembly for gas-powered cars,

    this green push bs will bankrupt the country….
    research concludes that under some scenarios, achieving a 50% market share for EVs in 2035 would require paying subsidies in excess of $30,000 per electric car, totaling in the trillions of dollars, and that achieving more modest penetration targets could cost public treasuries in the hundreds of billions of dollars….
    hahaha….they will just raise your taxes another 50% to pay for it……

    dirty lithium fire bomb batteries….
    The electric car’s biggest disadvantage on greenhouse gas emissions is the production of an EV battery, which requires energy-intensive mining and processing, and generates twice as much carbon emissions as the manufacture of an internal combustion engine. This means that the EV starts off with a bigger carbon footprint than a gasoline-powered car when it rolls off the assembly line

    “Electric cars and renewable energy may not be as green as they appear,” a 2021 New York Times article noted. “Production of raw materials like lithium, cobalt and nickel that are essential to these technologies are often ruinous to land, water, wildlife and people.”

    80% of lithium batteries, key components and EV parts come from china, these politicians and EV pushers are making your country dependent on china, how stupid is that?…they must be bribed by china….lol….

    lying…………the CO2 benefits of Teslas are overestimated by 600% in California. (more crooked computer modeling), That overestimate would be considerably higher in parts of the country where the EVs are charged with less clean electricity derived from a higher mix of fossil fuels.

    The U.S. Department of Energy concludes that hybrids are actually cleaner than EVs in six states,

    crooked analysis by cherry picking cars for a comparison…
    One of the least understood factors that determine an EV’s greenhouse gas benefits is the alternative vehicle to which the EV is compared. Some researchers have noted that this “reference vehicle” is often a hypothetical car that gives the EV an illusory advantage.

    A 2016 VW Golf diesel is cleaner, more economical then any EV….lol

    https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/zero-emissions-electric-vehicles-heres-why-claim-has-zero-basis

    • Re: crooked, defective, rigged, fraudulent computer modeling is used to get results that prove

      global warming is real

      shots are safe and effective ….lol

      In layman’s terms, I could produce a computer model saying that 30 years from now space aliens will invade. Scientifically, my model is as scientific as the Nobel Prize winners Climate model. Both are untestable and not falsifiable. Because of that, neither are science.

  5. yaris gr 2821 lb 257 hp 10.97 lb/hp 0 – 60 mph 4.6 sec
    yaris gr Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time 8:14.93

    corolla gr 3285 lb 300 hp 10.95 lb/hp 0 – 60 mph 5.4 sec

    2022 civic type R 3071 lb 306 hp 10.03 lb/hp (315 hp in 2023) 0 to 60 in 5.0 sec in 2022
    Nürburgring lap time 7:46.90

    20th anniversary golf R 3481 lb 329 hp 10.58 lb hp 0 to 60 mph 3.9 sec.
    Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time 7:47.31 a record for awd hot hatches

    VW GTI Clubsport S’ fwd 2883 lb 310 hp 9.3 lb hp
    Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time 7:47.19

    Renault Megane RS Trophy R (Mk IV) 2881 lb 296 hp 9.73 lb hp

    The Renault Megane RS Trophy R (Mk IV) is the lap record holder now for fwd cars at the Nurburgring lap time 7:40.1

    At the test track, the 315 hp regular Golf R test car with the seven-speed automatic transmission blasted to 60 mph in just 3.9 seconds, beating the 2021 Honda Civic Type R by 0.9 second.

    The Renault Megane RS Trophy R (Mk IV) is the best driver’s car because it is quick and light…..the Golf R is the stop light 0 to 60 mph king and maybe the best daily driver for normal people….

    • Re: lap times….lightness does matter….

      A super 7 (a 1957 design by Lotus), is the ultimate driving experience, buy or test drive one, it is a completely different experience. The most direct, analog, raw, visceral, unfiltered driving experience, perfect for the hard core driver enthusiasts, this is how a car should be, small, light, agile, fast, no frills, no driver’s aids, mechanical art made to go fast only, no luxury, no doors or roof, some have no windshield, nothing extra, with a 4 cylinder engine about 1200 lb. A car you can connect with completely.
      The closest thing to an old F2 car for the street, very fast,

      A Super 7 weighs around 1200 lb. a modern nanny state vehicle could be 4100 lb.

      The Super 7 is built with a steel tube frame like the older race cars, it is very strong, stronger then unibody design and very light (under 100 lb.), that is why the Super 7 handles so well, it is low, light and very stiff.

      A Donkervoort a Super 7 clone, with an Audi 1.8 lt. 4 cyl. 20 valve turbo engine in 2003, 2004 had the world record lap time for any street legal car on the Nurburgring, 7 min 13 sec. (quite a bit faster then the tesla plaid lap time).

      A Super 7 is the 2nd most copied car in history, 160 companies made copies, (Cobra was the most copied car), the Super 7 is a close copy of a 1913 Bugatti Type 22, the specs are close, one of the first small light cars (did Lotus copy it?).

      Chris Harris reviews the Caterham Super 7…….he says it is the best sports car….
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAwNfgvF_Ww

      • Modern formula 1 race cars are a bit better then the modern sports car, hypercar, F1 cars only have power steering and semi automatic transaxles, they are analog otherwise……..

        The street cars now have power steering, most are automatics or dual clutch plus they have many driver’s aids controlled by AI and computers, you don’t even drive the car you are just along for the ride, what a joke, you can’t connect with the car, it is a bastardized ruined experience.

        To go back to the past get an analog car with no driver’s aids, to get close to an old F1 car spec get a Super 7, a car you can connect with totally. A super 7 and an F1 car are both open top that is important, closed top impairs the driving experience.

        A super 7 is a more pure connected driving experience then an F1 car.

        The modern cars are getting too big and heavy that is why I like the Super 7.

        The driving experience in new cars is getting more and more isolated, disconnected. it is a bit like being half blind, deaf and you can’t feel anything…..lol

        If you want the ultimate top down driving experience get a super 7, it is also the exact opposite of a nanny state car.

    • Hi John,

      A small rich one. $43k is a lot of money. Especially for a Civic, however powerful.
      This car ought to be – in a sane world – around $22k. And the standard Civic ought to be around $12k. Or less.

      Cars have been rendered grossly overpriced, over-equipped and overweight.

      • At this point, next car is almost as old or older than me.

        Whatcha think of Imports that are 25yrs or older, from Skylines to (Toyota) Landcrushers and everything inbetween that are emissions exempt?

        • Hi Zane,

          I have two thoughts!

          First, condition is everything. I’d not hesitate for a minute to buy a well-kept 40-year-old car – were I in a position to buy one right now.

          Second, which car – almost as important.

          A well-kept ’90s Corolla? Hell yes! An abused 25-year-old Taurus? Hell no!

          • First thing to come to mind is an imported Land Crusher LJ70, those look sick, similar to my Bronco but with a turbo diesel without emissions crap and stick.

            Even if its abused, ya engine/trans swap it and put in new parts anyway, probably could get it cheaper if you plan to rebuild anyway

  6. Remember that no one at GM wanted the GTO, DeLorean had to sneek it past the bean counters who didn’t understand that kids with disposable income would be the hot new market in 1965. GM managers were busy copying European sports cars because they remembered seeing MG, Alfa and Porsche after the war. Great cars for sure, but too complicated to sell to kids with disposable income. Horsepower per dollar was understandable. Great cornering and no back seat… not so much.

    It is all about demographics. Who’s going to buy the cheap first-time buyer vehicle? The car companies don’t have new customers, at least in comparison to the 60+ baby boomers they’ve been catering to since they turned 16. Even mainland China is seeing a baby bust thanks to their micromagement of reproduction. So the word comes down to tart up a Civic and screw with the intake manifolds and squeeze a few more HP out of the engine at the expense of the head gasket. That’s R&D that will make payback.

  7. Cars used to represent freedom, especially to the young who were just out of high-school or college.

    Not so today. This was driven home to me recently as I heard about the son a relative having recently graduated college (and settling into a run-of-the-mill job which would formerly not have required years of college and it’s resultant debt to obtain, much less perform), who just bought his first new car (Just a run-of-the-mill transportation appliance)…obligating him to more debt.

    The Nissan that he bought will not last much longer than it’s warranty period, at which point (when the warranty ends) the guy will be faced with never-ending expensive repairs, or the prospect of buying another car with the resultant new debt.

    Between the college debt and the car debt, this guy’s fate is set. It is doubtful that he will be able to afford to buy a house…but if he does, that will require even more debt. You go to college so you can get the job so you can afford the car to get you to the job that you need in order to pay the rent or ‘qualify’ to buy the house which is too expensive because it is close to the job……..

    Twenty-something years old and the kid’s fate is sealed- He will be living to pay debts and taxes for the rest of his useful life. But hey….he got to wear a cap and gown, and he drives a ‘new car’, which are supposed to be the milestones we are supposed to aspire to. If he’s real lucky, he may even hit the next few: A 30 year mortgage; His first marriage; and ‘saving for retirement’ so he can live in a condo near a golf course in Florida for his last few years.

    And this is what people want for their kids? I’m 60 years old- I’ve never owned a new car, nor had a car payment or any other debts. Didn’t waste the most energetic and enthusiastic years of my life being indoctrinated and accumulating debt…..I’ve been living my life and enjoying it- as opposed to hoping for a future which may never materialize. The things I’ve spent time learning have value to my life (Like how to maintain and repair the vehicles I drive and the machines I use. I’ll let someone else sign-up for the depreciation, interest and taxes.) -as opposed to satisfying the impersonal and whimsical requirements of some personnel department so I could work in some environment where I would be treated just a child still in school.

    • Amen, Nunz –

      One of the things you and I can remember, too, is that even the “basic” cars of the ’60s and ’70s were easily and inexpensively upgradable to be as powerful as the factory-made high performance stuff. Because in those days, those cars were just the basic versions of the high-performance cars. A base Nova with a straight six was the same basic car as an SS 396 Nova – and it was simple to swap in a 396 and the other SS bits and pieces.

      That’s all gone with the wind now.

      • Hi Eric

        For an inexpensive tuneable car get a Mk. 4 VW Golf GTI, tons of power available, just with software upgrade, tons of parts available, plus tons of after market equipment too, lots of used inexpensive engines available…maybe $1200…..1.8 lt. 20 valve turbo…one of the best 4 cyl. ever made….

        The Golf GTI is one of the 10 best cars in the world at any price….the 1st hot hatch…..

      • Not just performance upgrades. Say you wanted A/C, but did not want to pay the high factory option price? Lots of companies made hang-on A/C’s from the 60’s through the late 70’s to add A/C to almost any car, and they were cheaper than the factory option. Dealers also had cheaper add-on A/C options. Not perfect, but functional. Same with alternator upgrades for adding ham gear, just go to the junkyard and snag a Caddy alternator for your Chevy, or an Hitachi alternator for your English car. Same with suspension upgrades, drum-to-disk, etc. Swap steel wheels for aluminum, when you found a set of Cragars on a junked car. Even that is almost impossible with the modern car engineer’s FWD hub designs, offsets, etc. Damn FMVSS, EPA, CAFE, etc. have made “modern” cars each a one-off design. No swapping of anything possible!

      • I still remember seeing some kid at the local community college with his metallic brown civic hatch (90s) on a lift.

        K20 engine with matching LSD 6spd, did it all himself he claimed. Wouldn’t weigh much (low to mid 2000’s) and over 200hp to the wheels, probably more with the mods.

        I know what you’re talking about, why I’m dead set on older vehicles from this point forth

  8. And unfortunately, it’s a civic.
    And unfortunately, it’s a honda. The eternally U-G-L-Y car.
    No one builds reliable UGLY cars like honda.
    Unfortunately, the rest of the industry has recently followed honda’s lead and build ugly overpriced cars almost exclusively.
    There are lots of morons who will keep buying the shit being shoveled at them without complaint because they love the shiny electronic dash gadgets (that will break right on schedule a month after the warranty expires.)

  9. The import era of the late 90’s-early 2000’s were my high school muscle car years. These new Hondas are all very capable performers but they have lost a lot of what made Hondas special.
    The “Golden Era Hondas” died when the lightweight double wishbone front suspensions Civics ended production in 2000.

    Ever since it’s been a slow slide into strut suspensions and low revving turbo motors with no soul. I hope Honda can one day find their way back to their roots.

    As far as the new Type R is something I would definitely consider buying…at MSRP. Which probably isn’t going to happen. I’m hearing rumors of $5-10k over stcker for new SI’s and $30k+ over sticker for a new Type R allocation.

    • Hi Pedro,

      Yup. Back in the ’90s, high school kids could afford “tuner” cars. Used Civics with Integra engines and so on. Who can afford a $42k Type R – let alone one marked up to $70k. That’s half what a decent house used to cost… back in the ’90s.

  10. I’m glad they calmed the styling down on the last Type R. The previous generation looked like that line from Spinal Tap manager Ian Faith, “an Australian’s nightmare” with all of those scoops and wings that were admittedly fully functional like Data on Star Trek TNG and programed in multiple techniques. It has to be some engineering sorcery to excise the scads of torque steer that would result on any other manufacturer’s front-wheel drive car with that kind of power.

    Agree with Eric that it’s sad that kids can’t afford fun cars anymore. Or find them even if they wanted one. This Type R will probably change hands for thousands above sticker. I don’t know if I like this or the Toyota Corolla GR better.

  11. Hi Jim,
    I love that image of a “solar powered electric chair” 😆. Maybe the Euro-serfs will line up for one this winter so they can experience some warmth before they check out.

    • If it weren’t so cloudy and gray all winter, natgas-deprived Euro-peons could build themselves human-sized solar ovens to stay warm … at least from 10 am to 3 pm.

      Now don’t get me wrong, yeah, I think you’re alright
      But that won’t keep me warm in the middle of the night
      That don’t impress me much

      — Shania Twain, That Don’t Impress Me Much

  12. One can only hope that the evbs will go the way of the new Coke back in the 80’s. The wet dream would be that CEOs who bought into the evbs would air groveling apologies much like Roberto Goizueta and Don Keough did after the new Coke charlie foxtrot.

  13. ‘such cars won’t be around for much longer’ — eric

    The European Parliament and EU member countries have reached a deal to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2035, it was reported yesterday.

    Meanwhile, in a quiet corner of the IC engine market that receives less attention from meddling Big Gov, Mercury has launched a 7.6 liter, 600 hp V-12 outboard for the marine market.

    https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/verado/verado-600hp/

    Just goes to show what’s possible, when the dead hand of Build Back Better is stayed from its collectivist campaign of technological vandalism.

    After 2035, will boating revert to sails only? Can’t wait to see those LNG clipper tall ships, keeping the lights on in Europe! 🙂

  14. This car will likely be seen mostly on the track. IMSA has had Hondas racing in the TCR class and this could be a fit for GS class in the Michelin Pilot Challenge.

    • And, it could appeal to those who are now in their 40’s that started out with a Civic and perhaps added a little rice on their own. Now, married with children, how could you not buy a “grocery getter” with room for four that had this level of performance?

  15. ‘Cars like this, in general, having become specialty-verging-on-exotic rather than mass-market cars’ — eric

    One could say the same about most EeeVees, which (excluding the Nissan Leaf) also tend toward specialty-verging-on-exotic.

    Speaking of which, after all the jokes in this space about towing a generator behind a Tesla, someone in the UK actually took the idea seriously. He’s prototyped a new breed of climate-mangling hybrid, combining a 35 kW gas turbine (harking back to the Chrysler gas turbine car of 1963) with a half-size EeeVee battery, 4-wheel electric motor drive, and … a kerb weight of only 1,500 kg / 3,300 lbs — petite for an obesity-prone EeeVee.

    https://youtu.be/gS2XwsIFVs0

    Of course, this will only ever be a high-priced exotic, meant to be sunsetted in 2035 when combusting even a teaspoon of hydrocarbon fuel becomes a capital offense against Gaia, punishable in a solar-powered, net-zero electric chair at high noon one fine sunny day.

    • Jim,
      “someone in the UK actually took the idea seriously”
      Someone with obviously too much time and money on their hands. Since hybrids are readily, and much more cheaply available. So far.

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