The real tragedy of Socialist Insecurity is just that.
Many of those forced to “contribute” all their working lives to this socialist wealth transfer scheme could probably have retired – in the sense of not having to work – well before reaching SS retirement age and not been dependent upon SS in their retirement.
And so independent of the government.
Instead, generations have been made into elderly – but ferocious – defenders of the government. Don’t touch my Social Security! say elderly conservatives.
They then wonder why leftism continues to advance . . .
The moral argument against socialism is self-evident. It is immoral to take what isn’t yours – and Social Security does exactly that, except worse. It persuades the taker that he has “contributed,” when in fact he has been taken. Financially as well as psychologically.
First, he is required – is forced – to hand over money, in most cases before he has even held it in his hand. His “contributions” are “withheld” – that is, deducted without his consent – from every paycheck, if he earns one. If not – if he is self-employed – he is obliged to actually hand over the money – 15 percent of every dollar, now – which is a “contribution” in the same way that you are a “customer” of the agency that enforces the taking, should you elect not to “contribute.”
Second – and worse – he is led to believe (and often, allows himself to believe) that he actually did “contribute” to an annuity of some kind; that “his” money is gathering interest/investment income in an account somewhere, with his name on it. This enables him to feel not defrauded – and defensive.
Don’t touch my Social Security!
That anyone still believes that SS is some kind of annuity they’ve “contributed” to is almost as tragic as the fact that there are still people who believe “masks work.”
Yet some do believe it – or allow themselves to pretend they do – so that they can think of themselves as other-than-defrauded and be ok with others having to pay for it. This latter being the chief evil and perpetuator of the evil of Socialist Insecurity. Each defrauded generation is egged-on to support the defrauding of the generations behind it, having been rendered dependent upon them for “their” Social Security.
And so we come to the insecurity aspect of it.
If, instead of having been forced to “contribute” 15 percent of every dollar they earn (up to about $160,000 annually, after which the “contributing” ceases) over decades of their working lives, people had been left free to save and invest their money instead, most of them would still have their money – and more. They would, accordingly, never end up dependent upon government alms – paid for by victims of government. They could retire sooner, too – if they wanted to – because they would not have to keep on working to pay their bills.
Some rough math will make the point.
A person who earns $60,000 annually is forced to “contribute” about $9,000 annually (a calculator is here, if you’re interested). Over say 25 years of “contributing,” that person will have been defrauded of $225,000.
What might a person have done with that money if it had not been taken from him?
Among other things, he would have had a lot more money to work with, while he was working – and so been less dependent upon credit – and debt – to pay for things he needed and could otherwise have afforded to buy. A new roof for his house, for example. Or improvements to it, which would increase the value of it so that when it came time to sell it, he’d get more money for it.
Which would not go to pay off debt but rather go in his pocket.
He would have been able to take advantage of opportunities to make money, as by purchasing something – like land – that would likely increase in value, perhaps substantially. Or by having the money to start a business that makes more money.
Capitalism. As opposed to socialism.
Independence. As opposed to dependence.
He might have been able to buy a car outright rather than have to finance it – with the result being not having to come up with hundreds of dollars each month for the next six or seven years to pay for it. Instead, he could pay himself – putting money in savings or investing it.
He would earn interest on it, in that case. His money would make more money. How much money would he have in savings if he simply did just that and put aside the entire $9,000 each year in a savings account each year for 25 years? Each year, the principle increasing and so also the interest?
At the end of 25 years – only 25 years! – it is probable the person who put aside $9,000 each year would have a lot more than $225,000 in his account – which would be just that. He would not have to degrade himself by applying for Social Security. Nor by the ugly knowing his retirement was being financed by the “contributions” of young workers forced to “contribute” not to their own retirement, but to his.
Neither of them having any more right to what they’re eventually doled out than a beggar at an alms house.
. . .
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WTH?! This Social Security ‘apologetics’ article was linked today on LRC:
LRC has truly gone to Hell. 🙁
My reaction also. If you’ve been reading some of Lew’s articles for the last year or so you just can’t help but think old age has caught up with him. Too bad. He’s been carrying the football for the “L” team for so long but has taken too many hits in the noggin me thinks. Same thing has affected many other veteran libertarians it seems. Very sad.
Yeah, Dave. It’s sad to see- especially when I remember the days when I was introduced to the likes of Murray Rothbard, Walter Williams, Laurence Vance, et al through LRC. The joy of clicking on that site every morning and being thrilled by reading authors who think like us. These days, I go to the site, and 99% of the time it’s just like “WTH?”.
Sadly, I find this to be the case with most “alt media” sites these days. They’ve all either gone to hell and or seem to be pushing disinformation or outright BS.
Thank goodness Eric always maintains an even keel, and that this site is a godsend in that it provides a platform for some of the brightest and best people out there to post their own ideas and observations and comments! It’s a virtual Galt’s Gulch!
Not to open a can of worms — and not to pick on just LRC for lowering its standards — but you’re right about most other free-market websites. They’ve all succumbed to the onslaught of market forces created by the weight put on them by the Sammy Corp which has caused a cheapening and lowering of quality of their product. And practically all so-called conservative websites have degenerated into nothing more than a bunch headline-screaming clickbait hunting hucksters. It’s so obvious an eight year old can see it. These sites would have been laughed out of business 40 years ago, but not in today’s degenerate society. Of course, the same phenomenon is happening with all online business sites.
Value & quality of service continues its relentless trend downward – in all aspects of the economy — which translates into a lower standard of living for the average schmuck. We’re truly stuck in the muck, and it’s going to get worse in the ensuing days to come.
But what is a bit surprising is that you’d think a site like LRC would be somewhat immune from some of these economic forces in that Lew fully recognizes what’s been going on for at least the last forty years and would have taken some steps to overcome these forces. I’m sure he’s tried to resist the best he could but it appears he’s just thrown in the towel. To publish the slop put out by Don Jeffries (and many others) is plenty of evidence to me that he has.
Very well-said, Dave H; and very good analysis.
I really hadn’t thought about market forces with regard to LRC, because I had assumed that LR was motivated ultimately by a desire to educate and evangelize (Like Eric)- but I guess at some point, it becomes a business, and one grapples with balancing the message with monetary concerns, and it becomes a slippery slope.
I guess I had thought more highly of LR than to concede that possibility- but there is no denying the deep dive the site has taken over the years.
Some of the other sites, like the alt. news aggregate sites, I think may actually be controlled opposition, meant to lead readers off the trail, or confuse them, or load them with downright false info.
A whole world of internet out there, buit as far as I know, THIS site alone seems to be the only ‘real deal’. (Maybe Larken Rose’s community too- I don’t know- I just don’t have the time/energy to explore. And Larken Rose [another “LR”!] got so distracted pouring so much time and effort into his “Mirror” project (Which is a great idea….but seems to have eclipsed everything else) that I got tired of even looking up his videos…… [sigh]
You’re *still* slamming LRC?
You see the same ideological incoherence noted in the LRC piece on SS you mentioned on this site, not from Eric but in the comments. The ones that start with, “I’m not a socialist but… insert excuse for SS here.”
It’s the same with the fake one virus over at LRC. An article by Tom Woods about how the virus doesn’t exist (of course it doesn’t and he finally wised up) followed by a piece by Steve Kirsch or some other substacker parsing gov’t data about the one virus to come to a conclusion about how this or that measure didn’t “work.”
Infowars kind of invented this controversy or “outrage” style content and a lot of other sites have picked up on it to cast the widest net for readership as possible. Just throw out every piece of red/blue left/right red meat, real or fake, to attract those “conservatives” with a good job and bennies, who I believe far outnumber the small number living below their means hardcore libertarians, in the hopes of getting subscribers, selling merch and/or “supporting the site.” Or just simply don’t challenge or call out their ideological incoherence so as to “not offend” a potential customer. It isn’t about promoting or sticking to sound libertarian doctrine at all costs.
One final thing about the Jeffries (another Johnny come lately?) piece on SS. It was so poorly written and weirdly incoherent, I suspect it may have been written by an AI chat bot. Maybe after reading the comments on here and elsewhere. Among many suspicious aspects, the reference to Paul Ryan as an “Ayn Randian conservative”? Does such a creature even exist? Methinks only a computer could think so.
There is a lot of this kind of thing going on. More than ever.
AI chat bot craziness:
Generative AI and tools using large language model (LLM) techniques like ChatGPT have led to a boom as big tech companies and startups alike race to integrate software capable of producing content that resembles something a human would write.
ChatGPT is also prone to “hallucinating,” or making stuff up. It merely predicts what the next word or part of a phrase should be based on statistics, and doesn’t know whether it’s correct or not.
Yup! It exhausts me, sometimes, trying to discuss a subject with people who are either incapable of acknowledging an irrefutable fact and so not a matter of opinion or who are so obdurate and dishonest that they won’t acknowledge it. A good example being that – per the assertion in the piece we’re talking about – SS is not an entitlement. This is simply untrue. It is specifically that and so not fundamentally different from EBT except in that one is not compelled to directly “contribute” to EBT. Instead, EBT benefits are funded via general taxation. But this is a distinction without much difference.
My point is, let’s have a discussion about SS. We can agree – or disagree – about whether it’s right to compel people to “contribute” to the retirement benefits of other people. But a discussion is not possible if one side insists on pretending that SS is some form of annuity that those who “contributed” to have a legal and moral right to receive their money back from.
Even the Supreme Court agrees with you via their decision in the 1960 case Fleming v. Nestor. The court ruled that: Social Security is not an insurance program at all. It is simply a payroll tax on one side and a welfare program on the other. Your Social Security benefits are always subject to the whim of 535 politicians in Washington.
I well know that feeling. Normally I don’t waste time explaining how reality works to those deluded fools.
Its simply not worth my time or effort. But I also know the difference between theory and practice. Yes, SS is wrong. Its wrong on many levels. It was wrong at the start, and its wrong now. But the reality is that those receiving it vote as a block (self interest and fear tend to do that). Which means that any real attempt to modify it let alone end it is political suicide. Which means that nothing of importance will be done. Until nature takes it course. But given how things are going, and the trend lines direction, I seriously suspect that other issues will take center stage before SS times out.
In the age of “Polycrisis” SS is strictly a local concern.
I agree completely. I understand for that reason why Trump might not criticize SS openly. But his making a point of defending it seemed very cynical to me. But then, what else ought I to have expected, eh?
Funny, but I got the same ‘vibe’ about AI when reading the Jeffries article! Then again, to make the logical fallacies he posits, one does have to dabble in incoherence….. (I would direct Jeffries to the SSA’s own website, where they have an article about the history of SS, where they even cite the SCOTUS admission that SS is a “welfare” program!).
And what even is an “Ayn Rand Conservative”?! Most Conservatives think Ayn Rand was an Anarchist, and hate her. I’m conservative (but not A Conservative) and I love Ayn Rand….as Atlas Shrugged was really my first introduction to someone who thought economically and ‘socially’ 9for lack of a better word) much in the way I always have.
Funny too, that the way the better part of the Libertarian movement has gone, with the desire for sheer numbers- quantity vs. quality) is exactly the same metric that has destroyed organized the organized Christian church.
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
” -Jesus (Matt. 23:15)
“As I’ve said many times, you could put any random group of preschoolers in charge, and they’d do a better job. And you could put any random group of death row inmates in charge, and they’d be more principled.” – Donald Jeffries
Where the heck do you guys see, “Social Security ‘apologetics’” in That?
Here ya go, Helot:
“The conservative Ayn Rand worshipers, the Paul Ryan brigade, are chomping at the bit to end Social Security and Medicare. They consistently refer to them as “entitlements,” which they decidedly are not. ” [My comment: Yes they are, as even the SCOTUS has acknowledged. You are forced to pay a tax; and then by sheer arbitrary decree of the taxers you are then allowed to receive proceeds paid for by people who are now paying that tax.]
“For Social Security to have a chance at working, every penny of income should be subject to taxation, and there should be strict means testing. Multi-millionaires and billionaires obviously have no need for it, and shouldn’t receive it. And those who do need it should be getting enough to live on. ” [Do I need to even comment on that one?]
“As usual, the conservative view here is no rational alternative. In fact, for the elderly, it would be a disaster. Since the Ayn Rand-inspired Right still worships the rigged and corrupt marketplace, they act as if there is a private option for the vast majority of old people. Pensions for blue-collar employees and the working poor have gone the way of eight track tapes and thin Victoria Secret models. How does the Right expect most retired people to exist, without Social Security? Unless they’re retired government workers, they aren’t likely to have any pension at all. They can’t depend on family. As I’ve noted many times, American families are largely dysfunctional. ” [Translation: “Let’s use the state to redistribute wealth so that people who can’t/won’t take care of themselves, or don’t have families, or who are too proud to rely on the private charities that the government monopoly has put out-of-business can be taken care of….”]
There’s more, but you get the idea.
Amazing… Of course SS and Medicare are entitlements. You can argue the merits of these entitlements, but to assert they aren’t entitlements is not unlike asserting that you are a “customer” of the DMV’s.
All of the person’s arguments are based on a single argument – that other people are our responsibility. In a legally binding sense. The irresponsibility – or misfortune – of “Joe” obliges “Ed” to hand over money to “Joe” – without caveat or limit. This is the same as saying “Ed” is “Joe’s” indentured servant, with the indenture never ending.
Life is unfair. It does not become more fair by imposing unfairness generally.
There is a despicability in this as well. This business of punishing prudence and modesty and responsibility.
You know what? Screw the improvident and irresponsible. I say this with gusto about my own family members. My mom once said something critical about my “old truck,” which she considered to be shabby. This really got my back up, because my mom bankrupted my dad, who was a doctor who earned a good income and who was himself a modest and prudent man. I pointed out to my mom that, over the course of my lifetime she owned – that is to say, my dad bought her – five luxury cars. I added up what they cost and factored in the cost of insurance/taxes and so on and came up with a figure of $250,000. All pissed down the toilet. What has she got to show for it now? Nothing – except her dependence on SS. I pointed out to her I have never bought a new car and never bought a used car that cost me more than about $7,500. I live modestly. But I am obliged to pay SS to “help” those who didn’t.
Well, screw that.
Well-said (as usual) and amen, Eric! (For some reason, it won’t let me reply to your comment directly, so if this appears in the wrong place….)
That author appears to be a closeted socialist, advocating that the ‘rich’ be forced to pay more…and then be subject to a ‘needs’ test so as not to even be able to reclaim some of the loot which was extorted from him- thye old “just take it, because he has ‘enough’ “.
And if he doesn’t believe that SS is an entitlement, then he would logically have to conclude that we are further being robbed by reason of the fact that what one has paid-in is not returned to their heirs if they croak before collecting……
The article reminded me of a statement a local acquaintence, who is a member of the John Birch Society, made to me years ago while discussing taxes and the role of the state, etc.: “Of course, we have to take care of the elderly”.
“We?” , “THE elderly”?. How about we take care of our own, or they take care of themselves by planning for such?
I’ve seen plenty of examples in my family too, similar to what you describe. Just for one example: One relative, now in their 50’s drives new cars, and throws lavish parties/BBQs for friends and neighbors…lives paycheck to paycheck….has always lived in rental housing (and not the cheapest!) though they could have actually bought a place and had lower expenses, and would have had a home fully paid for by now……but why bother since in just a few more years “The government will take care of them” and provide them sustenance, and ‘low-income subsidized housing’,. and free food, etc. etc. just by reason of the fact that they’ve managed to clutter this earth for 6 decades?
It’s disgusting. It’s even more disgusting to see such a thing advocated and justified by an article on what used to be a stalwart Libertarian oasis. I’ve always tried to moderate any grumblings I may have had in recent years in regards to LRC….but that article really tears it! I’ve seen pieces about SS by authors on Conservative websites which were more Libertarian and less offensive than the article we are discussing!
We Libertarians are the tiniest of minorities….and anyone who’s seeking us as their audience had better settle it right from the git-go that if they are looking for a large audience, they had better look elsewhere- and compromising Libertarian principles in hopes of attracting a larger audience is only going to further thin the Libertarian audience, in which case, one does no service to the cause they initially desired to serve, nor do they effectively evangelize….they just alienate the choir, and fail to attract new converts, even if they do end up with a bigger audience overall. Quality vs. quantity…….
Ah-hem. Not enough time to make it purdy, I attempted to flesh this conversation out a bit more, here:
I’m glad the Forum is working – at last! How’s everyone liking it?
LRC has been a bit disappointing for years now. But Lew is getting older, and I suspect much of the site is run by staff. Their objective is to keep the site filled with columns that attract clicks. Fear, like sex sells. I still check LRC for those writers I’m interested in. I simply ignore the rest of the fluff. As much as I wish it was other wise, there is a very limited market for the writings of Rothbard, Mise, Walter Williams, Walter Block, Hans Hermann Hoppe and all of the other great writers.
That’s why I don’t hold it against Lew. Looking at his past history, and all that he has done, I’m willing to give him a pass at this point.
When talking with the wife at home, I have replaced the word “tax” or “taxes” with “robbery”, e.g., I’m currently putting in all the numbers (after closing her business books) in TurboRobbery, so that I can get the least amount of robbery.
It’s such a god damn grudge fuck, I’d rather chew my leg off.
EVEN if it means that I’d suffer a miserable poverty-stricken retirement, I am 100% A-OK with “stop the fucken Social Security Robbery TODAY!” IDGAF… go ahead lying-ass govt. and renege on the “deal”.
From what I’ve read, you would literally get more service/protection from the actual mob if you found yourself paying “tribute”, i.e., they would help protect their investments in some cases. You could literally petition the don. Things could be taken care of for you.
I met a couple of real-life mob guys back in California and knew one of them fairly well. You know what? They won’t make you wear masks or inject experimental drugs.
No, I’m not advocating for the mob. I’m just making comparisons of evil shit. Seems as though, ultimately no matter what, if you have any amount of money, they won’t leave you alone. Somebody will come for it in one way or another.
But truly, the evil done for your benefit knows no bounds. It only ever increases.
It’s easy for broke-ass fools to look at the minor robbery that they endure and put together a story in their addled minds about why/how it is ok/good/justifiable for govt. to do it.
It’s only a couple hundred bucks or whatever to them. Maybe they get EIC… yippee! Nothing like govt. pittance and cheese.
The poverty side of the house either doesn’t rub together both digits of their IQ long enough or just doesn’t fucken care that, NOT RICH people (i.e., middle class), will end up being robbed to the tune of the entire yearly salaries of lower down people. Flat out “rape” IMO.
Mother fuck! The amount of robbery the wife and I are paying this year could make a family of 4 very comfortable (if not further robbed)!
Rember the “Trump tax cuts” that the left shrieked in pain about? Funny thing, I never saw my tax go down. That fucken SALT cap fucked me hard. Also notice, when the libs were essentially 100% in charge, they did jack shit nothing to change it.
I am not rich! Fuck no I’m not. Most of my life, I was “lower middle class” and the lowest of the low (aka poor enough but not “poverty” according to US govt). I had $150 to my name at one point and not that long ago.
I finally “made it”, got lucky and found a way to improve my situation and now I get raped while robbed every year. I have the pittance of social security “benefits” that I never wanted to look forward to, once the real income stops. That along with (or reduced by) my own 401K saving which the fucken govt. has done everything humanely possible to destroy.
401K was down 17% for the year ending 2022. The entire lot of that pot of money that I’ve been putting together for 15 years. All of it -(n * 17%). And now they’re forcing mutual funds and other formerly safe investments to sponsor the idiotic ESG fallacy.
Oh, they haven’t done EVERY thing they can do to destroy it. Don’t forget, since they have claimed the power to tax (rob), the only thing that keeps them from taking it all is friction and gravity.
Friction and gravity are aspects. But I also suspect there is also an element of self preservation. The active line is blurry and varies from person to person. But once a person has nothing left to lose, things can get desperate fast. Not to mention that emergence behavior can’t be accurately modeled.
Never underestimate how creative a desperate person, with the proper insights and motivations can be.
I’ve always had a very ontramanurial [entrepreneurial] spirit, from childhood- but I figured out how they were robbing us also at a very young age- so eqarly-on I adopted the principle that I would not be financing their wars and welfare and tyranny, so have spent my life just earning a meager living as a one-man show, ’cause I am not a slave, and will not have the fruits of my endeavors stolen from me. I’d sooner pay that protection money to the Mob. In fact, if the Mob could protect me from the real criminals, I’d gladly pay them!
If it weren’t for the state’s protection of deadbeats and usurpation of property rights; their taxes, and minute control of everything a property-owner does, I’d be providing quality rental housing for many, while earning a good income for myself; I would have been establishing quality retail and service businesses, employing others, while improving communities and local economies; I’d be rehabilitating neglected buildings…yada, yada……
But I’ll be damned if I’ll do those things only to have to be controlled, pay fees, but permits and licenses, and then ultimately be robbed of half or more of anything that’s left if I still manage to make a profit after having paid for and complied with all of the aforementioned tyrannies.
The fact that so many are willing to tolerate all of the above-mentioned crap is the real problem, and the very thing which empowers tyranny- and why we will never be free as long as we live amongst such a society. No slave has ever attained liberty while living on the plantation- even if he has been declared “free”.
[…] Guest Post by Eric Peters […]
You “contribute” when a truck costs 7000. If you manage survive the wars, poisoned food and water, “healthcare”, chemtrails, cell tower radiation and the constant daily propaganda mindfuck…you collect a few sheckles back when a truck costs 70,000.
‘Be the first one on your block
To have your girl come home in a box’
— Horst Muhlmann
Draped with a rainbow flag as it arrives at Dover Air Force base.
Ken mentioned the Ukraine pensions. This is a very hot emotional issue because Social Security is not funded properly.
“President Joe Biden said in April 2022 that some of the funding in a Ukraine aid package that Congress later overwhelmingly approved could be used to pay pensions for Ukrainians amid the ongoing war with Russia. That is not a new development, as several viral tweets have misleadingly claimed in recent days.
“Joe Biden just announced the US is going to be supporting the pensions in Ukraine,” conservative commentator Jack Posobiec wrote in a Feb. 17 tweet. The post included a 29-second clip of Biden’s remarks that has been viewed almost 8 million times.
Then on Feb. 18, John Basham, a former Texas city councilman, tweeted an even shorter video of Biden’s remarks about pensions and wrote: “BREAKING: @JoeBiden Announced The US #TaxPayers Will Now Be PAYING The #Pensions & #Welfare For The People Of #Ukraine. This, While MILLIONS Of Americans Can’t Pay Food, Housing, Or Medical Due To Biden’s Policies. Also, While Thousands Of Americans Are HOMELESS & On The Street!”
Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia then retweeted Basham’s post the same day and called on Congress to impeach the president.”
Here is an interesting historical fact about the Social Security Act: in 1935 almost all Republicans in Congress oppose the creation of Social Security. Now they all support it, because if you don’t you will never be elected.
Amerikans overwhelmingly want Socialist Insecurity, and when budget problems become an issue, they sure as hell will want monies to keep it solvent over monies being burned in Ukraine.
I was never comfortable with the Republican Party. While some of its general drift seems pro freedom, the fact remains it was born as the party of American tyranny and it is the party of incoherence in that it stands on no firm principles except maintaining itself in power. Someone said the other day that Democrats are socialists and Republicans national socialists. That fits, I think.
Most politicians who call themselves “Republicans” do not have the “courage of their convictions”.
As odious as most Democrat “goals” are, the Democrats are out there. They want your guns, and they are not afraid to say so. They might not get them all at once, but they are using incrementalism to get what they want, chipping away at the Second Amendment a little at a time..
Most Republicans are lazy, without strong convictions, and “going along to get along”. THAT is a major defect of Republicans and the conservative movement in general.
Republicans are too “milquetoast” to get out there and FIGHT with the courage of their convictions.
The “perks” of public office are the same, whether one takes on political fights or just “kicks back” and “let things happen”.
As to the jews, they have their hands in BOTH major political parties, using the Democrats to push their leftist communist goals and the Republicans as an ATM.
Most members of both sides of the Uniparty, have long since been bought by those who own the central banking cartel. As the late L. Neil Smith was fond of saying; “Its best to remember them both as simply different wings of the Boot on your Neck Party”. It used to be that the democrats favored welfare (to keep people dependent on them). While the republicans favored warfare (to keep their corporate masters well funded). But these days both parties are involved with both. Mix in globalism and what could go wrong?…
The last three years have also demonstrated that the vast majority of both sides of the Uniparty will channel their inner tyrant when given a chance.
Social “security” and the other entitlement programs are in the process of going broke. But the way things are going, I doubt that the Empire will exist in its current form by that time. Leaving many, many millions of elderly people in a very bad situation. Frightened desperate people will do or delegate irrational dangerous things. Especially once the great die of gets well under way, and the medical system collapses (lack of trained/skilled personnel and insane prices). Its going to get much worse, before it has any chance of getting better. Anyone who isn’t prepared is going to have a very difficult time.
I’ve understood SS was a scam since I was in high school and have always assumed it would not be “there” when I reached eligibility age. I think many Gen X and Millennials understood the same. It is primarily a problem for the older generations who did assume it would be “there” for them and who are now dependent upon it, many of them. Perhaps the problem could be handled by providing the benefits to the currently retired/dependent but gradually ending the program on a rolling basis. I don’t like that I have been forced to “contribute” all these years, but as I have many working years ahead of me yet, if these “contributions” were ended I would be ok with accepting not “benefits” going forward. I consider the money gone already, anyhow.
The nazi needle was front running the pitch forks…
It is dangerous having a pension plan, after the government thieves steal the money, they cull the population before they figure it out and get out the pitch forks…lol
They went after the old people in the old folks homes first, the new Jews…..gets rid of pension liability….
The cull was focused on the G7 which have pension plans….
Catherine Austin Fitts says it is partly to cover up a financial crime. around 1995 during globalization money was looted, went offshore, all the pension funds were looted, there is no money left.
Note: Dr. Marc Faber says all governments steal between 5% (honest governments) and 100% (crooked governments) of the money collected, borrowed.
in 1998 they knew the math didn’t work to fund pension plans, wouldn’t be able to pay the pensions.
ATTENTION: in 2003 they said between 2020 and 2025 there would be a huge drop in the population numbers. it is like managing cattle, if there isn’t enough resources to keep the animals, you cull the herd.
Then along came the bat germ, they can now say there is no money because of the bat germ problem…..lol
(this is easier than trying to explain where all the money went….that is the key right there.)
She thinks the elite nobility and the billionaires are tired of managing 7.5 billion people and want to cull the herd, they say 500 million is a better number.
the depopulation agenda (they say is necessary because of global warming):
The good thing is the government parasites like the AGW and all the others won’t collect their promised defined benefit gold plated pensions….lol….the system is bankrupt….they just keep printing money daily….so it will last one more day…..
Don’t worry, Eric, the implosion is coming soon. The intergenerational welfare system known as Social Security is going to be on the ash heap of history by 2030…bet on it…along with most of Federal GovCo…if not all of it.
Yes, I’m on SS now. Most of it goes to pay the rent on our house, aka “Property Taxes”, I’m just the middle man. It’s one big GovCo circle jerk.
Local GovCo just notified me the dwelling they let me live in is now more than double its value from 5 years ago. They want their pound of flesh. If I don’t pay they will send guys with guns to get my mind right.
Land of the Free my ass.
People will be herded into the new 15 minute cities…if you are good you will get a small amount of digital currency deposited into your CBDC account….so you can afford to pay for your 3 meals of bugs (including your meds) delivered to you from the government….
cbdc 15 min city lockdown drones
The final lockdown….
@ 18:30 in video drones flying around as the new police, doing policing…. AI and tech will police the 15 min. city…
digital Id the ticket to the digital prison…
geofencing limiting moving around in the real world and the metaverse..
ignoring reality is not a good stategy for survival
smart city…no more rural living….off to the 15 min city……limited mobility, no cars…weaponized surveillance and control….water rationing…speech surveillance…..mobility tracking…rationing gas, heat, electricity…
control of food supply…no more cooking/food ownership…..no hoarding/stocking up or growing/independent supply…..it will be a service delivered daily by the government…with your meds included……..if your social credit score/cbdc balance is too low or cut off…no food for awhile…till you comply….
All the prisons will be closed…the prisoners will instead be housed with everybody else in the 15 minute city ghettos, they will be your neighbours in your soviet era, closet sized apartment…along with all the mental patients they turned out onto the streets years ago ……where it is easier and cheaper to watch/control them/you….every body will be drugged to make control easier….
going from a debt slavery system to an identity slavery system
AI is the beast….@ 59:05 in video….starve the beast…
Who funded, approved, installed, the smart city surveillance infastructure?
The longer term agenda for the countries with the 15 minute cities…who governs them?
A UN government…. The UN managing the land…the government for the indigenous owned land (the country given back to the indigenous)….in the whole country……..the army and police would all be UN soldiers….that was the reason for gun control legislation…UN the only armed force allowed….replacing the existing armed forces….
“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.” Robert Heinlein
The real, unspoken tragedy of socialist insecurity was that it enabled silent, GI and Boomer families (at first) to move away from grandma and grandpa and set up a houose in the perfect leave it to Beaver bullshit. It give “families” more time to molly coddle their kids like the Cleavers. It was happy days time , sockhops, soda fountains and send junior to meet his future wife at prom (which almost never worked out).
Don’t get me wrong, I loved the cheap gas, the cool cars, the high speed limits, the open roads and the happy times in an era that I completely missed, but the real problem was shipping old people off to live then die in a nursing home. I thought it was probably wrong then and definitely wrong now. In other cultures, older people are revered. Here, they are cast off like dirty rags.
I squarely put the blame on that cigarette smoking faggot Roosevelt. In a long line of shit inhabiting the oval office, he barely stands out, but he was at the early part of it all. Successive generations gave him too much credit for “getting us out of the depression” and too little derision for fostering a culture where older people got cast aside like a piece of soiled underwear.
Old people in the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin were cast off like used tampons…but then so were any people who just had the bad luck to be turned in…..the breakup of the family is part and parcel a Marxist goal…..working well here too…
Of course you’ll get your payout, it’s gar-en-teed! You’ll get all the digital dollars the supercomputer needs to make, right on time. Oh, the computers can’t keep up with inflation? Well, that’s the evil shopkeepers doing, not the wise elders running the e-con-game-onomy. You lucky stiffs who are still working, you’ll get automagic COLA increases, thanks to your wonderful union representatives and their tireless efforts to lobby congress for higher minimum wages (unless you’re black or hispanic, then you’re back to the plantation). And that means even more money coming into Social Security! See! It all works out just great!
So simple even Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez figured it out. DK why you guys don’t understand this stuff.
I’m sorry, plantation was an autocorrect typo. I typed “collective farm” not sure why my computer changed it. Must be a raccisss programmer.
My cousin Andy paid into SS his whole life, often as a self employed person.
Too bad he died three days after his 65th birthday. Collected not one cent in “benefits”.
Had he been able to keep that money he would have been able to leave it to his two daughters, who by the way, could use the money. But no they get nothing.
And this might be the most significant reason to oppose SS. Having all that money taken from you and being unable to leave it behind for your heirs is disgusting.
From the great Walter Williams:
“There’s a moral dimension to Social Security that few have the guts to address. What moral principle, consistent with liberty, justifies forcing a person to set aside a certain portion of his weekly earnings for retirement and jailing him if he fails to comply? Retirement isn’t the only important item for which we should budget. How about a congressional mandate that we set aside a certain portion of our weekly earnings for housing, food, entertainment, or our children’s education? Were Congress to propose a measure that would require each American to set aside a portion of his weekly earnings for these items, most of us would see it as tyranny. Pray tell, what’s the difference in principle for a congressional mandate that requires setting aside earnings for retirement versus a mandate setting aside earnings for housing or our children’s education?”
Once you are no longer working and paying taxes, the government wants to get rid of you, you might start drawing some of the money you paid into the system back out….the problem being they stole it already….
Disabled and/or old people who go into hospital in leftist run countries, without family, friends, and lawyer by their sides do not come out alive….maybe the hospital collects a bonus…..
Just for fun, here are some possible outcomes by my calculations, based on a very low rate of return, say 4% in a secure annuity over 25 years, plus adding $9,000 to the annuity over 25 years per year, your future value of money would be worth $368,361.
Over the last 50 years, the stock market has returned an average rate of 9% including the booms and busts. This would have to be normalized to inflation which returns an average of 5.4% per year. A couple of scenarios; based on 45 years of earnings at normalized 5.4% the very lowest earner would have if working for nothing but minimum wage their entire life would have a future value of $247,000 based on 15% social security rate if invested. This is a paltry sum and would not provide for an adequate retirement in today’s dollars. There are people like this with limited mental and cognitive abilities, that I think we as a society do need to provide some old age security. On the other hand, if you take average annual incomes based on the future value of $15% collected over 45 years at 5.4% return, they would have $1,147,000 in the bank. This could get you down the road depending on how long you live and spend. With Bite-me inflation, rent, and Obamacare this could be eaten up quickly. This does not include additional investments that could be made over 45 years and returns.
Conclusion: Social Security has been a bad investment strategy and we have been taken to the cleaners since Pres Johnson made the revenues part of the general treasury to be spent on government programs, which SS is now bankrupted.
“…that I think we as a society do need to provide some old age security.”
I believe, in this case, you meant to use the word “feel” versus “think”.
Also, what method do you “think” should be employed to provide for these people?
I am against socialism and Marxism. In a perfect world we would not have allowed social security and allowed people to keep their money and provide for themselves. My comparison is an extremely low wage earner still would not have accumulated enough wealth for retirement. Who are these types who earn extremely low wages their entire lives…mentally ill or severely handicapped. So, in these cases, I think a safety net is reasonable. In the case of everyone else, we could have taken our 15% and had an over $1MM in an investment account in lieu of the government spent this money on wasted programs and now having gone broke. Maybe this is why Bite-me, and the Elf were forcing jabs on people, so they can balance the books on SS payments. Anyway, that is my take, throw it in the woods if you like.
I appreciate your response, but you still didn’t answer my question. Exactly what method would you use to achieve your goal?
“The issue is always the same: the government or the market. There is no third solution.” Ludwig von Mises
Hi James, there is a 3rd solution. Charity.
In the before times, people would meet in the town square and talk about everything. This is how they knew the old widow who’s health is failing could use help from the community. Food, house work, etc and the community would help each other out.
The government used to spy on these town meetings but once the radio came along, it was the death of the town square. The spies were replaced with lies. True charity was replaced with mafia security. “You are going to pay us for protection, wouldn’t want nothing bad to happen to you would you?”
“…there is a 3rd solution. Charity.”
Charity is funded by private sources, i.e. the market. Mises is correct.
Well stated. Charity is indeed an aspect of the market. It is a choice made by individuals. The market is far from perfect. But it is FAR superior to the results of leaving things to the Gang of thieves and murderers which is government at its most fundamental. Rothbard and many others have written extensively about the two paths in life. One can Make. Or one can Take. There is no legitimate third way.
Work 40 years….from 20 years old……. till 60 years old…..
Instead of paying $9000 per year into social security…
Invest to $9000 per year @ 6% interest over 40 years = $1,392,857.00 …….$1.39 million
$1.39 million divided by 25 years…..based on living 25 more years…. till 85 years of age = $55,600.00 per year…..
If the 1.39 million was kept in a 3% interest rate savings account there would be an extra $41,700.00 the 1st year in interest declining to zero over 25 years if the account was drawn down to zero over 25 years…….
The 1st year would be a total of about $97,300.00….this far better then average retired person getting $30,000.00? per year from a system that is bankrupt and could stop paying in ten? years….
If you are into saving for retirement here is another place you can save a lot of money……
If you cook for yourself it could cost $8.00 to $10.00 per day total for three meals
Eating in restaurants can cost $45.00 to $60.00 per day, $1050 to $1500 per month more then your own cooking, just for pretty much fast food, no wonder people are broke…..
If I save $35.00 per day cooking my own food, for 3 meals it takes 1 hour total, so I am making $35.00 per hour, tax free…… a good part time job.
You also save on health care costs by avoiding fast food/low quality food.
this doesn’t include $5.00 starbucks drinks or rip off $2.00 crappy coffees…note: coffee can be made for 5 cents to 10 cents a cup….lol…after I did the math on this i am reluctant to even buy coffee…lol
If you invest $1,000 every month for 40 years at a 6% return, it will be worth $1,991,545.25
$1.99 million dollars
people go to expensive restaurants for the experience…cool decor, trendy…
Whoever came up with the idea of keeping track of the money that was extorted from you, and calling it an “account” was a true evil genius inspired by the Devil himself. By calling it “an account” (Though there is nothing there, because that money was used to fund the ‘benefits’ of those who are receiving benefits when it was taken from you) they make everyone feel that they in-turn have a right to take from those who are working when they retire. Thus, everyone who believes in and or has been hoodwinked by that scheme becomes a defacto socialist.
Most ‘Mercans don’t even realize how the system operates; they actually think that the money taken from them has been set aside in an actual “account”, and that they are somehow just getting back what they paid in, with interest.
The only “account” is the government’s keeping track of an arbitrary number of “credits” one receives, not based on the actual amount of money that has been taken from them, but rather of the amount of time they have been employed, which, according to some arbitrary formula then determines how much they are entitled to receive from money taken from the next generation.
Before the government got involved, if your parents weren’t financially responsible, or suffered some catastrophe (etc.) and ended up with nothing after decades of earning a living, that it was the moral obligation of their children to support them- and once their parents were dead, the children no longer had such an obligation. But thanks to Socialist Security, everyone now has to support everyone else’s parents forever, and regardless of whether those parents were prosperous or financially irresponsible, or if they failed to raise their kids to be responsible and caring; or abandoned their kids/dumped them in ‘day care” from infancy, etc. So, as with all socialist programs, morality and the consequences of one’s actions are totally removed from the equation, and all become “equally entitled” regardless of their actions and choices in life, as long as they’ve satisfied the arbitrary requirements dictated by Uncle.
Abandon your kids and drink your money away…but you’ll still be entitled to retire on someone else’s dime, just the same as if you had responsible and a good parent; and the offspring of others will still be forced to pay for it, their entire working lives. This is “the government taking care of you”, and apparently what liberals and conservatives all seem to love.
I marvel at what a stroke of evil genius it was that couched such socialism in terms that would cause people of every stripe and political bent to feel entitled by merely cleverly crafting words like “account” (which is NO account) and “contribution” (Like a speeding ticket is a “contribution” to the Safety Squadron) which lessens the fact of your money being taken from you, and gives the sense that you have a stake in it— and thus, such a scheme having been established, it becomes self-sustaining, as witnessed by the fact that no politician would dare to criticize or seek to stop it, as it would be political suicide to do so, since most seem to think that this collective extortion scheme is “theirs”.
Sorry- I used indented paragraphs above…but they apparently get reformatted during posting. Should’ve used empty lines between ’em…..
No one mentions the fact that the heirs of those who die before collecting social security receive not a penny from their (forced) contributions. A death benefit of $255 is paid out, but no more.
With a private plan, a person’s heirs would receive what is in their private plan.
It is getting very dangerous for old people…..do not go to the hospital unless you broke a leg, major trauma……
Disabled and/or old people who go into hospital in leftist run countries, without family, friends, and lawyer by their sides do not come out alive….saves the government from paying the money they promised them…..
In reflection I know lots of elderly people that went into the hospital and never came back out…….
during the bat germ hoax the old people and the large people…obese…were targeted 1st….they died suddenly….higher risk….they said….the stupid were also targeted…the injection was an IQ test….also targeted with non placebos were poor areas and conservative voting areas…..
now in leftist run countries MAID is being offered…(soon forced)…. to handicapped, depressed, homeless and to people they say are insane….like the injection hesitant….
“people had been left free to save and invest their money instead, most of them would still have their money – and more”
Like someone mentioned that half of the people in USSofA live paycheck to paycheck. I don’t think itz that high maybe more like 33%. I don’t know what the actual figures are but I have known a few individuals who filed for Bankruptcy and these people were not very old. These people spent every dime they made and they made a decent paycheck. They spent their money on alcohol, drugs, gambling, the latest electronics and prostitutes. I can imagine these people crying to the government that upon retirement age they have no food to eat and are starving. This would make America look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world. Bad publicity. Itz bad enough that there are free lunches and more for school children as if parents can’t put some nutritious cereal and milk in a bowl or fix a sandwich for lunch. Welcome to the New America and itz going to get worse.
Newsflash, the US already looks bad to most of the World.
Fools and their money are soon parted, it’s not anyone’s responsibility to provide for someone who is stupid with their money. Bad health, weather disasters or family tragedies are more sympathetic to be assisted as able. And, it’s more like 66% who are paycheck to paycheck these days, in the US, at least. This is from someone on the ground here, is “in the fight”, and knows. Yes, the US is going to get a lot worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Good luck to you and yours, we’re all going to need it…
**”half of the people in USSofA live paycheck to paycheck. I don’t think itz that high maybe more like 33%.”**
The percent of people who live paycheck to paycheck is actually much higher- Not because they are “poor” though- but rather because everyone is in debt for expensive houses, cars and toys. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen someone get a raise at work, and the very first thing they do is go out and buy a new or ‘better’ car or new furniture, etc. on credit “because they can now afford a higher payment”- They spend it before they even get it. Perish the thought that they should continue living the way they had been, and save every cent of the newly found bonanza- and they never consider that they might not even have that job next month or next year…… Instant gratification with no thought to the future….and no matter how much they earn, they are always complaining that it’s never enough- “My bills! My bills!”. I’ve seen the same behavior from people making $20K a year…and from people making $250K a year; people who have nothing, to people who are worth several million. It’s amazing!
The government could go away tomorrow [if only!] but the insanity we see all around us would continue, because this crap is ingrained in what has become Western culture.
A product of the Federal Reserve. It’s been going on pretty much since Nixon closed the Gold window in 1971.
Debt is rewarded, and saving punished.
You borrow money and pay it back with money that is worth less than you borrowed.
You save money and inflation eats it up.
Once upon a time, banks competed with each other for savings deposits. I can’t remember the last time a pass book savings account paid out interest higher than the inflation rate. Maybe 1971?
Heh, yeah, John- not to mention that after all of the other taxes one pays, the borrower then pays a voluntary tax by reason of his borrowing- i.e. interest. Instant gratification is heavily taxed…like everything else!
Great article Eric.
There is another very interesting parallel with Medicare:
Those same “conservatives” who shout about anyone touching “their” social security also shout “Screw your Obamacare socialized medicine – hands off my Medicare!”
Without noting any irony…
Hehe, yeah, Blake. I remember when The Tea Party was a thing, I saw this Youtube video of some Tea Partiers rallying, and some were carrying signs that said “Medicare…for Americans only”! That pretty well illustrates the difference between modern ‘conservatives’ and liberals- The Libruls are communists…while the Conservatives are National Socialists……
Years ago, I took a relative to a doctor’s appointment, and was looking at an AARP magazine (for lack of anything better) while waiting. It was disgusting! Everything was about “Supporting politicians who would INCREASE Social Security and Medicare” and advocating ‘more “programs” for the elderly [tax-funded, of course]- the whole damn magazine was essentially just one big whine of “Gimme, gimme, gimme!!”…while purporting to have a “conservative” bent. ‘Oh, “we” need to do more for “our” seniors’ [Translation: “We need to use the power of the state to force others to do more for strangers…but it’s O-K, as long as they’re over 55…”
Wel, I’m over 55, and I don’t want their socialism; I don’t want to obligate strangers to provide anything for me; I don’t want to see the offspring of others extorted for ‘my benefit”. (And then there are the “You gotta help the children” crowd; and the “You gotta help the poor” crowd…basically, they want the state to care for everyone, cradle to grave… They don’t want “you” the individual to do it of your own volition, if you choose to/want to/are able to…they want the state to force you to… Everyone must be made poor by being robbed by the state for all of these causes, and everyone can then be “supported” by the state, now being “in need” because they have been made poor by the state and by those who advocate such schemes). -And this is now the mindset of most Americans….. including “Conservatives”.
I remember those tea party fatties riding around in their Medicare/Medicaid provided scooter chairs chanting how they didn’t want socialized healthcare, totally clueless. I had Socialist Insecurity taken from my paycheck my entire 50+ years of working so I intend to collect it until I croak but would infinitely have preferred to add that amount to my 401k/IRA so that my kids could have whatever is left after I do croak.
Not that I plan on doing that anytime soon, hope I live long enough to piss on a few graves 😆.
Amen, Mike! Hope ya live long enough to bankrupt the bastards (Before they do it to themselves…which will likely be pretty soon…)
It is impossible to get it through any of these numbskulls’ heads that Socialist Insecurity is not now, nor has it ever been anything other than a tax the federales have seized from them. Period. I’m reminded, however, of a legal maxim – from Rome itself, still in usage – “He who would be deceived, let him.”
Amen, Jay –
O have great sympathy for anyone who has been the victim of theft or strong-armed robbery. I have very little for those who would visit either on some other person to make up for what was stolen from them.
When in govskool I learned that the term “Useless Eater” came from the German Hitler Regime to show how cruel they were. Today, it a common phrase thrown around by the new generations for the elders on SS and Medicare.
Amazingly, no derogatory terms are in use for those on WIC,,, Aid For Dependent Children and a dozen other free ‘programs’ that our taxes pay for,,, for taxes not paid by many of those receiving these programs. Then there is Medicaid which We pay for but the receiver does not.
We have billions going to Ukraine to support their pensions and necessary war material so they can keep dying for their country. Very few complaints.
We just had a situation where the Feral Government did not want to help those poor souls in Ohio while our president was in Ukraine promising more money and arms to them.
Yet today SS/Medicare are dirty words and old people are useless eaters providing no economic value sucking down the entire economic system like a vacuum cleaner.
Then we are told that a lot of our problems stem from the 18% robbed for SS, Medicare and Medicaid. That that 18% would deliver us from the debt we made ourselves,,, from our own irresponsibility.
In my lifetime I averaged $60 – 65 thousand a year. Paid about $10,000 per year in SS and the others. With that $50,000 left I paid for my private pilots license and the instrument add on. These are not cheap.
We built our home ourself and all they goes with it. We have paid off our present home, put two roofs on it and put in a new septic system. We have purchased four brand new cars,,, and 2 new motorcycles,,, recently a Harley Davidson Road King.
We are presently debt free. Most of our life we have been debt free which allowed us to live reasonably. My wife elected to stay home and raise our children. She worked once,,, about a year,,, while I was ‘between jobs’. Now according to some we should be starving and homeless because of the 18% robbed from us.
Some say we were lucky,,, maybe so. But I say we worked hard under a difficult system and were responsible with what money we had. Oh,,, and we managed to save a little but three market crashes about done us in.
IMHO SS should be voluntary. Should be a gov insurance for the elderly. Here is what’s going to happen. The irresponsible folks will spend all the money (like they do today) and then DEMAND government take care of them because they’re homeless and broke. I have a son like that. Zero in to SS and very little savings. So, we will still be paying for other people and they will have paid nothing.
What really bothers me is what the newer generations disrespect of the elders while not considering that those elders raised them for free.
My two cents
I do not consider older people to be useless eaters. The point I was trying to make in the article is that people have been defrauded and led to believe they were not. I oppose taking anyone’s money. Because I consider theft and robbery to be immoral. I think that the only way we, as a society, will ever recover our moral sense is to abjure theft/robbery in principle.
Because I consider theft and robbery to be immoral.
Agreed with limitations, Should those that ‘contributed’ be denied their money because the government has abused its fiduciary responsibilities spending what they collected in SS payments on wars? A couple trillion was stolen from SS in the Clinton regime but very little said. How about the 21 trillion government cannot account for? No one seems interested. Most are completely unaware.
But why is it only SS in the limelight. Why not the Federal income tax? The State income taxes. Sales taxes, the military budget, Foreign Aide, ad nauseum. Right now they are considering a 30% Fed Sales Tax. Most people right now fall into the 18-20 % income tax rate. Sure they say the sales tax is only on what you purchase but who can go without food, housing and medical? What’s 30% of $350.000 for a house plus all the additional costs, or 30% of the cost of an EV. SS will be the last thing on our minds at that point! We will just end up with even more people on government handouts.
Anyone look at an 80-90 year old? Anyone think they can go out shoveling dirt on a construction project or should they just go to Kanada and request euthanasia?
Really! Are we there yet?
Most children today don’t take care of their parents,,, their parents are taking care of them! They are still living with mama and papa living in the cellar playing video games living on their parents SS.
I know several women that manage to get into that sweet spot where they get the $7000 bonus back on their income tax. Do they spend it on their children? Nope… they get a newer car every year.
I know the US Supremo’s said FICA was a tax and SS wasn’t insurance. They also legalized abortion and gave a thumbs up to the Jim Crow act. My mother as a young child listened to FDR and according to her he did say it was elderly insurance because many elderly were being abandoned, their children leaving for the big city manufacturing.
I want everyone to know I am against any tax, any type of forced insurance and that a social security type tax should have been voluntary. But…. that group coming up must be made to understand they will not have any government help when their aged if they do not join. And even that likely won’t work. Would people really allow others to starve to death because you know many will waste any money they have. We do seem headed in that direction.
You ask if people would allow others to starve to death? From what I have seen of human nature, especially over the last three years, the answer is an unequivocal, yes, they would.
Rats and human beings…the only two animals to send their youngest and weakest to battle.
As Swamprat stated above in most cultures the elderly are honored and admired, in America people toss them into facilities run by the state, to let strangers deal with what they do not wish to. These same people then cry about the destruction of the nuclear family.
I believe many of us grew up in an environment where you take care of those that took care of you. Some people inquire why children have so little respect for their parents and grandparents, but who taught them to? Nobody. How does one learn responsibility and dependability when no one else around them practices it?
Libertarians and conservatives seem to always throw out the same answer when it comes to helping others: private institutions and charities. Just as it should be no business of the government how a family should operate why should it be dictated by a private organization? Rarely, if ever, do we see the answer of “it’s my responsibility to take care of my children or my parents.”
Why should that ever be shoved off to anyone else?
RE: “Why should that ever be shoved off to anyone else?”
Keyword, “shoved”. Sometimes, there’s no family left to shove to.
‘I Am Responsible’
“I am responsible when anyone, anywhere
Reaches out for help,
I want my hand to be there!” …
I think helping is wonderful; it is one of the most noble human actions. Forcing ruins that. Also, interestingly, by forcing, helping becomes harder to do. Most of us have been forced to “help” so much there’s little left to help and so we are chary with what we have left.
One cannot be “charitable” with someone else’s money. Charity is among the ordinary human virtues. It cannot be delegated to another party, else it is not charity.
I think you understand where I am coming from. I surely don’t consider myself a Socialist. I am just calling out the human problems that will need to be addressed before any cancellation of SS.
Aaaaa, hell. The way this country is acting towards Russia,,, SS will soon be the last of our problems.
Agreed, ken. Many of us probably won’t have to worry about Social Security, not because the system will be out of money, but we won’t be here to collect.
I begin to hate the Keeeeeeeevians. I know it’s not rational; that the average Keeeevian is caught up in this mess and it’s not their fault. Still… when I hear anything about Keeeeeeeeeev I want to smash something.
It is not the Ukrainians that I dislike, it is the very people that represent us and are supposed to be a steward of our tax dollars that I can’t stand. We are being outplayed, outfoxed, and outsmarted by criminals and the corrupt. Zelensky is playing this country like a fiddle.
I am not entirely dissuaded that Ukraine, Russia, and China haven’t joined forces to deplete Europe and North America of their weaponry, tanks, and military supplies. All Zelensky knows how to do is hold his hand out, then again, that is all our government knows how to do, too.
When does it end? How much more taxpayer funds are to be diverted to a war that is not our own as our citizens live in anguish with emptied resources and a host of problems that are making us sicker and weaker as each day moves forth?
Same, RG – I was just venting. And I know these bastards – not the Ukrainians – want us at each others’ throats over Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeev and otherwise.
I do not wish to die for the politicians,,, especially the latest iterations of the stupid arrogant bastards. I’m going to guess most on this site agree. But like all previous wars, they succeeded in drawing us in.
We hear a lot about “democracy,” so let’s have some. A national plebiscite to decide whether to hollow out America – and perhaps turn America into glass – for the sake of Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeev. As degraded as things are, I doubt even 25 percent would say Aye.
Nobody to look after them?….the government already has a solution…..
Disabled and/or old people who go into hospital in leftist run countries, without family, friends, and lawyer by their sides do not come out alive….maybe the hospital collects a bonus…..
Good morning, RG –
Very well-said. I think it’s important to say it. The elderly deserve better treatment. I agree. That said. . .
People are responsible for themselves first, then their dependents. These are responsibilities. I maintain that, if people were responsible for themselves and their dependents, then very few people would find themselves needing help outside their own circles. Some would, of course. Just as some will drive 100 MPH in a school zone. We live in an imperfect world. So, the question becomes: Do we accept that it is imperfect – that some will cause harm, bad/unfair things will happen, sometimes – or do we attempt to make it perfect, at the cost of harming everyone, via the acceptance of the idea that it’s ok to use force against people who’ve caused no harm, for the sake of some “greater good”? I grant that, at first, sometimes these “goods” aren’t bad, generally. But they inevitably become horrible because the precedent has been set that will be used to expand something seemingly “good” into something terrible. We see this all around us. A “good” law forbidding – and punishing – driving 100 MPH in a school zone becomes laws forbidding right on red (even when there’s clearly no oncoming traffic present) and mandating the wearing of seat belts.
So, it’s not about discarding the elderly – I agree entirely with your points above. It is about respecting everyone’s right to not be subjected to violence of any kind absent their having first threatened it or done it to someone else. I do not see how it can be, as a moral matter, that anyone “owes” anyone else who is not their dependent (e.g., a child they brought into the world) money. If someone can put forward a case for the opposite, I’d be interested to hear it.
How is a family taking care of their parents or an aunt or an uncle violence? Do I believe each individual should be independent? Absolutely. But, age, disability, lack of mobility, etc. catches up with most of us eventually if we live long enough.
Will the majority of us on here have the ability (financial, mentally, and physically) to take care of ourselves in our 70s, 80s, and possibly, 90s? Hopefully, we do. What if we can’t though? What do we do? One would hope our family would reach out to offer a helping hand. I realize not everyone has that.
Of course, preparing is a solution if one can save enough money to do so, but how does that help when one is wheel chair bound or has dementia?
You mention that a parent is responsible for their dependents, I totally agree. When one brings children into the world they must take care of them until they become functioning productive adults. Of course, not every child born is able to become this. There are many of us out there who have children with physical or mental disabilities. What becomes of them once the parents pass? They become a ward of the state who will deplete their inheritance and stifle their independence? Hopefully, they have a sister, a brother, or a cousin who is willing to step in. The burden is astronomical, but I believe we have an obligation to care for those that cared for us (as I stated above). It is not violence to take on responsibility and duty.
“How is a family taking care of their parents or an aunt or an uncle violence?”
I think it’s the ideal. Sadly, it is precisely SS (and other such) that has made it harder to care for our elders, by impoverishing us through serial mulcting. How much more able would you and I be to care for our parents if we had back every cent that was taken from us in “contributions” over the past 30 years? SS has also encouraged many elders to be profligate while they were of working age (my parents, for instance) such that the burden for their care in old age falls on others, needlessly. Irresponsibly.
I have never in my life taken out a car loan nor bought a vehicle that cost me more than $8,000. My mom and dad bought new cars every three or four years. I added it up, once. Came to something like $250,0000. They declared bankruptcy in 2016, lost their house, etc. My mom once said something disparaging about “my old truck.” I told her at least it’s my truck – and my house “out in the sticks” (they lived in Scottsdale, AZ) isn’t being foreclosed on.
And, to return to your original statement: One does not have a responsibility or duty to provide for people who are not your dependents, much less a right to use violence – politics – to force others to be responsible for them.
I would never countenance others being forced to care for me in my old age – if I reach it. I intend (and take care to) provide for myself. And if that s not enough, then those who wish to help me can do so. But I will never say that someone else owes me a thing, unless they and I have specifically agree to be so obligated.
My point is we have no control of what happens to us. It is wonderful to be independent, until we are not. We can do everything right in the world…save our money, eat healthy, exercise, etc. but that doesn’t mean a bus or disease won’t stop us in our tracks.
Let’s talk hypothetically…if you are diagnosed with Alzheimer’s at 75 years of age what are your plans not to be a burden on society? You have lost your mental capacity. You are not able to make decisions for yourself. What do you do?
These are the things that I hope happens to no one, but they can occur and it is impossible to plan for everything.
I agree; life is uncertain. But we have an obligation, do we not, to prepare for that? I live below my means so that I am not a burden to others and won’t become one. My family knows what I want if I were to become incapacitated without hope of recovery. Life, for me, is not about just remaining alive. When I can no longer live, the time has come to go. And I know how to take care of that, too!
Pretty simple RG,
Liberty is dangerous, but not as dangerous as slavery. Bad things happen to people. One can choose to help them, or not. If you want utopia, get some Fentanyl. Because it never happens in the real world. Some are going to end up broken and broke. Such is life. The only guarantee any of us has is a spot to fall down on when we die.
Well stated. Out side of ones dependents, one has no responsibility to take care of others. That is where mercy and charity come in. Both are choices. But making them forced is what changes them. The world is not ideal. Nor will it ever be. Those who attempt to make it perfect are the ones who end up making it worse for everyone. The world is a dangerous place. None of us are getting out of here alive. But the choices we make during our time here, demonstrates our character (or lack there of). That is what goes with you when you exit this freak show.
Unrelated, I know, but I tried to register for the new forum and never received an email with login info.
Also, what are the chances of getting an edit option for comments here? It would be extremely helpful.
It ought to be working now; have you checked your spam box for any mail confirming registration?
Ah, I did not think to check spam. There it is, sure enough. Thanks!
It’s one of many tragedies enacted during the “progressive era” in this country. That was when the stage was set for the declination of our society from one based on individual liberty coupled with personal responsibility to one based on the government being supreme in all matters and parts of life.
The climate is such, now, that even if one’s morals are in line with the former, it’s practically impossible to live one’s life to that standard.
A tragedy, indeed. And one that will persist, because, as you note, SIS (Socialist InSecurity) has become untouchable politically. Just as most people who call themselves patriots are not willing to undergo the sacrifice necessary to take back our country, so most are not willing to sacrifice “their SS”. It’s hard to blame them, I suppose, but by God it’s a good thing that General Washington and his men were made of sterner stuff then today’s summer soldiers and sunshine patriots.
“so most are not willing to sacrifice “their SS” . . .
I would. All I ask in return is that for the rest of my working life, I be exempted from “contributing” one more cent to this wealth redistribution scheme.
And so would I- but most, evidently, are not willing to do so.
I would give up my SS as well. Even though its a decent chunk of change. Being self employed it was one of my biggest non-operating expenses. However once I reach 62 or 65 whenever I can draw it, then no dice bitches, at least give me back what I put in.
I didn’t plan my retirement expecting to see much, if anything, from Social Security, but the Dems have been eyeing seizure of the private pensions and 401(k) plans as a band aid on their fiscal irresponsibility going back to the early 90s. THAT would be a problem for me.
if being defrauded of your hard money isn’t enough, the Regime is now trying to impose investment regulations on the investment firms that handle our 401k’s & IRA’s. They decree that investments go to government approved companies who comply with the “green” decree! Nevermind the fact that “investment” goes down the toilet. My personal view is that my future will be working til i can’t and then die the day after since S.S. will be shot amd my personnal savings will be squandered and any dollars still there will be nearly worthless. Only in America!
Yup. I have expected this development for decades. It is why I have never “invested” in such. I invest in that which is harder for them to summarily steal – at least, without some actual risk to themselves.
Way back when Jesse Jackson was running for POTUS, he proposed confiscating pension funds for “social” expenses.
Which is why I have never, and never would put money in any kind of government controlled investment. There is nothing but friction and gravity keeping the state from simply confiscating your 401K. With the click of a mouse. So regulating what those funds can be invested in is just an inconvenience.
The SS offices are over run, good luck getting in to fix a problem! Very limited to what can be corrected via the website, an in person visit will be a frustrating experience waiting forever and missing one piece of information you’ll start all over.
The Commander needed a shortfall corrected, of course closed for Covid for months and months. Her phone appointment was scheduled 3 months out, don’t miss that call! And don’t miss any documentation or data they demand. Took another 7 months of back and forth to finally fix the problem. The glitch in our online account? A phone number in their system from 20 years ago that we couldn’t see online. The website error “records don’t match” of course it won’t tell you what record.
Drive by a SS office here in WA and note the demographic. It is majority “south of the border “ new residents – no wonder the system is broke. I’d like a congress critter to explain this, getting the anchor baby registered then it’s gravy train for the family?
After venturing into a SS office, and going through what was more or less a TSA checkpoint to go in, to solve a problem that they created, and taking a couple of hours to finally figure it out, I pointed out to the agent in front of my that I now understood why they needed the checkpoint and armed guards. SS had changed my name, from John to Jon, and couldn’t find me, in spite of me bringing my 50+ year old original SS card.
I have no illusions about ever being able to retire; throughout the decades I just assumed that SS wouldn’t be available and not to count on it. The debased FRNs are worth less and less each year & will eventually be worthless altogether. Even though I’ve built up a descent nest egg over the years, the buying power it represents is heading towards zero.
I served my country, delayed material gratification throughout college & grad school, and worked hard for decades. I played by the rules. I obeyed the laws. And for what?
Indeed, Mike –
I have even thought about “identifying” as 65, so I can get “my” Social Security . . .
Mike, you & I did it for the same reasons, we had been conditioned to do it by our elders, who had been brainwashed by theirs, and so on.
The truth is the (((Khazarian Mafia))) who infiltrated our government and banks needed productive cattle to continue to feed their system of debt-based fiat currency we have had since 1913 and especially 1971, once the gold standard was abandoned.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury, and it is ongoing, right now, before our eyes…
“And for what” you ask? For the greater glory of those who actually own the country of course. They have become more insanely wealthy with each generation that passes.
Its those illusions/delusions that allow them to continue their robbery and control.
Have you seen a video called all wars are bankers wars? Or read a book called Confessions of an economic hitman? Or even War is a racket by major general (USMC) Smedley D. Butler? That would give you your answer.
During a conversation at a gun shop decades ago, I mentioned that per my latest SS tabulation of my contributions, I could retire NOW if they had not stolen it. Another in the conversation said they would be happy if they would just give him back his money. I answered that it was not his money anymore, it was stolen.
Way back when, privately owned gun shops were a good place for political debate. Since they were dealing in supplying the “right of the people to keep and bear arms”.
In conversation with one, he said that nobody needed a thirty round magazine. I told him that one needed a magazine capacity at least as high as his attacker had. Plus at least one.
Privately owned gun shops are still a good place for robust IRL political debate. If you can detect the faint glow coming off certain shops and steer clear of those, its all good.
Go into those with the “faint glow” anyway. There’s no need to preach to the choir. All they can do is throw you out, which would speak volumes. One never knows, they may find some folks that don’t have that “faint glow” inside. I don’t go into them any more because I’m essentially firearms saturated.
I’m all stocked up as well. Mostly we panicked early and beat the rush. I like to look even though I don’t need any. The only thing I would still like is an original Colt, 45 LC. More and more, revolvers are becoming my thing.
There is a little barbershop near my town where we have the best discussions. Most of which are prompted by the barbers, as ME TV runs in the background. The old Gun Smoke and Rifleman reruns are a comforting window into the past.
Its pretty cool seeing people open their minds to new ideas. Some of the discussions run past normie comfort. I’ve heard talk of the fed, chemtrails, Epstein. Soros and Rothchild, even UFOS.
Revolvers are still wonderful. A finer trigger job can be done on one than an auto, because if the auto’s trigger is too fine it will go off when it goes into battery. I’m fond of Ruger’s, because they are essentially tanks, with a cylinder. I’m confident that I could run over one with the lawnmower and it would still function.
In this world of perpetual inflation, if you are collecting funds today, to pay out benefits in decades, you are paying out benefits that are worth LESS than the funds you collected. That in fact is how the Fed encourages debt and punishes savings. Making it more profitable to borrow today’s dollar, and pay it back with future dollars that are worth less, than to save money.
I’m living on SS now, and don’t feel the slightest bit of guilt taking money away from the Psychopaths In Charge. On the other hand I will come out of my closet and vote for any candidate that intends to end it.
Aside from that, it’s a welfare program, and as such should be subject to means testing. There is no moral reason for the working young to be financing a “pension” for well off retirees. So what, they can upgrade their vacation plans? They can buy a nicer car? A bigger house? More upscale hookers?
FDR was so concerned about the plight of the elderly that when SS was instituted, the retirement age was precious close to average life span.
Not long after its inception, the SCOTUS ruled that SS taxes could NOT be put in a separate account, that they would go into general revenue instead. Whatever “trust fund” there ever was, it was manufactured by accountants simply saying it was so.
‘What might a person have done with that money if it had not been taken from him?’ — eric
This is the nub of the matter. Austrian economics speaks of time preference: those perpetually hell-bent on consuming now, versus those who forego current consumption to save for the future.
About half the population lives hand to mouth. All their income is spent. They buy lottery tickets (sold to them by the state), hoping for a miracle. Yet the rare large winners often manage to fritter away their sudden wealth in a couple of years, converging back to their empty-pockets internal setpoint.
So Frank Roosevelt extended the ‘helping’ hand of the welfare state to protect the improvident from poverty in old age. Funny thing is, the state itself is wildly improvident. Social Security is only about 20% funded, compared to the reserves it should have to meet its promises. It’s exempt from the prudential statutes that compel private pensions to correct underfunding.
Thus the US fedgov itself exists in the same habitual hand-to-mouth mode as the feckless and the foolish. Any financial windfall, and more besides, is promptly frittered away by the 535 heedless Congress Clowns. The state is recklessly, incorrigibly imprudent.
On this first anniversary of the Ukie war, we see the negative-net-worth US fedgov spending wildly on a goofball windmill tilt on the steppes, even as it’s set to run trillion-dollar deficits forevermore.
What can’t be sustained, won’t be sustained. As a broke debtor which also usurps the power to issue its own scrip currency, the US fedgov must inflate or die. War is inherently inflationary, so the minions and ministers of the state will claim, “There was no alternative.”
It wasn’t me that started that old crazy Ukie war
But I bust the war pigs’ chops to do my patriotic chore
And if I could win I’d get my gun and put ’em in the ground
Uncle Saaaaaammiiiiie, for God’s sake turn around
— Kenny Rogers, Ruby, Don’t Take Your Love to Town
How about a little Country Joe McDonald?
Yeah, come on all of you, big white men
Uncle Sam needs your help again
He’s got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Ukie-land
So put down your books, pick up a gun
Gonna have a whole lot of fun
And it’s 1, 2, 3
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn
Next stop is Ukie-land
And it’s 5, 6, 7
Open up the pearly gates
Ah, ain’t no time to wonder why
We’re all going to die
Well come on generals let’s move fast
Your big chance has come at last
Gotta go out, get those reds
The only good whitey is the one that’s dead
And you know that peace could only be won
When we’ve blown them all to kingdom come
And it’s 1, 2, 3
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn
Next stop is Ukie-land
And it’s 5, 6, 7
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain’t no time to wonder why
We’re all going to die
Well come on Wall Street don’t move slow
Why man, this is war-a-go-go
There’s plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb
They drop it on the Azov mob
And it’s 1, 2, 3
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn
Next stop is Ukie-land
And it’s 5, 6, 7
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain’t no time to wonder why
We’re all going to die
Well come on mothers throughout the land
Pack your boys off to Ukie-land
Come on fathers don’t hesitate
Send them off before it’s too late
Be the first one on your block
To have your girl come home in a box
And it’s 1, 2, 3
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn
Next stop is Ukie-land
And it’s 5, 6, 7
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain’t no time to wonder why
We’re all going to die