I have a number of vehicles that are not far from being fifty years old – something it’s doubtful any electric vehicle will ever be. This is interesting on a number of levels, including the one given as the justification for electric vehicles – i.e., that they are “sustainable.”
This seems improbable given they are – fundamentally – disposable. Like the Face Diapers that now choke sea turtles (and landfills).
Like the smartphones we use and discard after three or four years, they are not designed to last and – as such – are the antithesis of “sustainable.” When the battery can no longer hold adequate charge, you throw the vehicle away – because it is not worth the cost of replacing the battery, relative to the value (by then) of the vehicle. This is a sustainability problem that cannot be solved because of the baked-in problem of depreciation – i.e., the inevitable decline in value over time that afflicts every appliance, which is what cars fundamentally are, no different than an oven or a blender. Whatever they cost when you bought them, they are worth less as soon as you buy them. And worth less and less, the longer you possess them.
A point arrives when the cost of fixing is such that replacing is the more sensible option – and so the blender or the oven or the EV goes to the landfill.
But this economic event horizon is reached sooner with electric vehicles because they are also luxury vehicles in that both are expensive vehicles – so both have more to lose and lose it faster. A vehicle bought for $50,000 today is apt to be worth about $40,000 year from today. Six years from today, it will likely be worth $25k. Is it worth spending $5k to replace a failed transmission?
Probably.
If it is an EV, is it worth spending $15k to replace a failing battery pack?
Probably not.
And even if the owner wanted to, could he afford to? It costs a great deal more to finance repairs – and replacements – than it does vehicles. Most people have to put repair costs on their credit cards, if they haven’t got the cash. These cards typically charge double digit interest, rendering the cost of a $15k repair even more expensive. And there may not even be a replacement, if the manufacturer does not stock replacement battery packs, due to lack of demand for them – a function of lack of funds to pay for them and the calculation that it is not worth paying for them. 
So, the EV will get tossed.
Several tons of junk each added to the debris pile of civilization. And then there is the cost – to the environment – of making a replacement EV (including a new battery pack) for the one just tossed into the trash.
Multiply this by millions tossed – and replaced. And mined. And manufactured.
Does it sound sustainable to you?
Meanwhile, my nearing-fifty-year-old vehicles. One of them is a 1976 Kawasaki motorcycle. It has the same engine it left the factory with, almost fifty years ago. I have rebuilt the engine, once. The cost was small relative to the value of the bike and so well worth the expense. The bike is likely to be running fifty years from now. At least, there’s no economic or similar reason why it ought not to be. It costs less than $1,000 to rebuild its engine. That means it will always be worth rebuilding its engine, since that sum is small relative to value of the bike – no matter how old it gets – as it will probably always be worth at least $1,000 or so.
But would it be worth spending $5,000 on it – for a replacement battery (assuming it were an electric bike)? Of course not. For the same reason it would not be worth spending $15k on a replacement battery for an elderly EV only worth that much, itself.
Less, actually – because without that $15k battery, the elderly EV is worth nothing beyond whatever value it may have as scrap. It will be interesting – and probably, appalling – to see what happens when EVs transition from being the boutique purchases of affluent virtue signalers who usually have a second car that isn’t an electric car – so as to not be forced to wait for their electric car. To see what happens to electric cars when they are used every day – and “fast” charged every day, to make it feasible to use them every day. Which will shorten their days
They will be thrown away even faster – and in numbers.
Meanwhile, the old Kawasaki continues – indefinitely. It is thus the apotheosis of sustainability. So also my equally old Pontiac and for that matter, my much newer 21-year-old truck. It has many years of useful life left. Just the same as the average daily driver, now middle-school-aged and with another ten or more to go. If the goal were, in fact, sustainability, such vehicles would be praised – and their manufacture encouraged.
Of course, the goal is something else and – as with the Face Diapers – people are beginning to figure out what it is.
. . .
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Just like smart guns – and like the “EV” cars, this is the expected or intended consequences though, they’ll find a way to pretend that this was unintended for some reason to keep the sheeple calm.
I’ve written about the smart gun technology, and discussed with people in numerous forums… but in essence these are just the top6 issues or technology for “smart” or even “EV” products.
Since most gun owners, expect to not only own keep their firearms for their lifetimes they also hope that they will bequeath their firearms to their family and still last for generations. This product given current technology puts battery replacement life at about once every 2-3 years and memory replacement at about every 10 years. Also this is a product that could be exposed to extreme environmental conditions, dropped, heat-humidity, rain, puddles etc how is the memory, electronics and battery protected to prevent damage.
Con#1 “Battery”: Regardless of how long a battery life it has it still at some point must be charged to be usable as designed; and with all rechargeable devices battery replacement will also be an issue and how is the memory of the “computer” managed with a dead or replaced battery. Keeping in mind that the battery could still be perfectly fine with over 300 to 500 charge cycles, but it could also fail sooner (how have they tested and gone through the battery manufacturer selection -cheapest and lowest quality or highest cost and most reliability) what kind of testing was performed to get the products anticipated life before replacement. – if the battery is damaged or being recharged what is protecting the owner from run away thermal issues.
Con#2 “Memory”: Depending on the memory and compression technology used can the stored hash values become corrupt over time, or lost? The electrical charge stored in a flash memory cells degrades over time, and will degrade much faster at extended temperatures; also the more you use a memory this type of memory cards, the more likely it is to degrade over time. A typical memory card can go through 10,000 to 1 million “write/erase” cycles before failing rates increase, but also sitting idle “cold” no electrical charge for extended periods will also cause corruption as the memory cells lose electrical charge. Also like the battery their is a finite physical age limit, typically 10 years. Keeping in mind that the memory could still be perfectly fine with over 2 million write/erase cycles and older then 10 years, but it could also fail sooner (how have they tested and gone through the memory manufacturer selection; their is a finite amount of times before it becomes unusable. -cheapest and lowest quality or highest cost and most reliability) what kind of testing was performed to get the products anticipated life before replacement.
Con#3 “motherboard”: If treated well and kept clean, a motherboard typically lasts between 10-20 years, though it is possible to last longer. This application of smart gun, could also put cleaning solvents and oils in contact with the motherboard(s) causing damage. Which means replacing the hardware with what will eventually become obsolete, and you may need to upgrade to the latest hardware.
Con#4 “reliability”: Facial and fingerprint recognition is vastly improved from a few years ago, but error rates are still high especially in the facial and in controlled settings are much more accurate then in real life scenarios. Also keep in mind that similarity scores and comparison thresholds to account for the false negative rates and false positive rates (families are going to look very similar – if your trying to prevent your daughter who looks a lot like her mom from accessing the gun, this could be a problem if the wife is the owner, or some other similar scenarios, like identical twins, etc. Then you have the recognition “racial” demographic biases, non-whites will find this product to have a much higher rate of false positives and will prevent the gun owner from accessing, especially in a need to defend type of situation.
Con#5 “quick to lock”: The manufacturer states that this product locks near immediately so anything from changing your hand grip location, changing the grip force from loose to tight, to switching hands temporarily and with the reliability factors, could lock out the owner when needed in a scenario where you are walking your house looking for the “source” of the late noise.
Con#6 “Software reliability and upgrades”: Since no one has been able to independently verify it at this moment we have to rely on the manufacturers statement that this is what they are doing and given their descriptions we can assume that they are probably doing what they claim they are. However, at some point we can trust but will need to verify; take the electronics apart and verify no Wi-Fi/Bluetooth or other radio communications chips or antennas are on the motherboard(s) and also to have a radio spectrum analyzer running to see if broadcasts are occurring. Also how is full manufacturer reset, or software updates (bugs/fixes) deployed when owners change in the case of reselling, or in the case of bequeathing to new a owner, or fixing a software flaw, or software algorithm improvements
Good luck getting parts for your 25+ year old vehicles.
Especially plastic that’s been exposed to the sun.
Looking like I’m going to have to buy a whole new ~$500 “dashboard panel” for the decade-old Suburban I just inherited because the cracking on top is so bad no plastic cover or fabric “skin” will solve its rattling…once it’s installed I’ll put fabric on top to protect the new plastic from UV.
Bill, might be cheaper to take the Suburban to a shrink- it seems to think that it’s a Dodge!
Perhaps we could refer to the insurance mafia as “Las Cosa Lora”, if that’s the correct Italian.
“Their thing”.
But I don’t really know Italian, so that’s a guess…
Also, whoops. Wrong article, haha.
E-bike fires a deadly crisis in NYC. Now put a thousand pounds of EV batteries next to your home.
https://dnyuz.com/2023/06/21/how-e-bike-battery-fires-became-a-deadly-crisis-in-new-york-city/
Hi Funk,
BMW is sending me an electric scooter to evaluate. I do not plan to park it in the house …
Hey Eric,
Do they call this scooter a “motorcycle”, and you refuse the term due to your sensibilities? What I mean is, it’s not a flat platform with handlebars that is ridden while standing?
Or that they are collapsing garages due the extra weight
https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news/sustainability/electric-vehicle-adoption-in-nyc-could-mean-fewer-parking-spots-119354#:~:text=The%20EV%20Push%20Adds%20Grave%20Weight%20To%20New%20York%20City's%20Garage%20Collapse%20Concerns,-New%20York%20Sustainability&text=When%20a%20four%2Dstory%20parking,city's%20thousands%20of%20parking%20structures.
https://www.curbed.com/2023/04/parking-garage-collapse-heavier-electric-vehicles-suvs.html
https://nypost.com/2023/04/19/electric-vehicles-could-put-pressure-on-parking-garages/
Didn’t global the Climate Nazis predict a snow-less winter at times? Didn’t Al Gore predict an ice-free Arctic Ocean about 2012 CE or so?
Nunavut happened, just ain’t so.
Owl Gore is one of those fools who believes, no matter how wrong, doesn’t matter to Al the Owl.
The land mass east of Hudson’s Bay is known as Ungava by the Inuit. The native word translates to ‘towards the open water’.
The are rare earth elements in northeast Canada. Anthracite coal beds exist up there, diamonds, Thompson, Manitoba is home to nickel mining.
It is all rich in resources and minerals.
Forget Russia, invade Canada!
Fire it up!
Sorry for the typos, didn’t mean to do it. Editing is always error prone.
If it were a chat bot dinking around for no reason, the sentence structure would be flawless, impeccable, meticulous.
However, mistakes can be made, good to know.
They’ll do it every time
Gore also predicted that the both coast lines would be underwater by the year 2000. I guess that the globalists are not too concerned about it if Barack and Big Mike bought a cozy place on Martha’s Vineyard.
The area along Alaska Highway 3 north of Wasilla has to be some of the most picturesque countryside you’ll ever see.
At Denali, the pit stop, all there were was tour buses parked so tourists could roam the area. The Japanese like Alaska, a place to go for a visit.
Fairbanks is too far north, get to Delta Junction as fast as you can, then back into Canada, Whitehorse is a killer place too.
Now is the time to go and see the Matanuska Glacier.
Ugh, do not remind me of the Japanese tourists. A Japanese couple decided one Winter, that it was a great idea to sit in the middle of the damned road in the dark with their lights off, eating sandwiches, while watching the northern lights. The locals in this area had to tell them they had to get of the road before they got someone killed. Yes, they are beautiful to watch, but dang, get off the side of the road already. Never mind they are worse drivers than the locals when it comes to driving on the snow and ice: Driving too slow, weaving all over the place, and having no sense to pull over when they get too many people behind them. But yes, the rest of us like to take the trips elsewhere after tourist season has ended, and the buses and RV’s (and some very nice ones come through I tell ya!) have left. So many places to visit, it is just not a short trip anywhere, is all, no matter where you live. And just about anywhere you go is beautiful.
Hey, wait a minute! I live in Canada:)
Canada translates to Big Village in Native American indigenous people’s vocabulary. Canada is one cool place on the planet.
Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Ontario, Huron, Ottawa, even Toronto, all derived from Native American phonemes.
All the comments below got me thinking. I currently own 2 trucks with over 200K.
A 99 Chevy K2500 w/250K on it, regular cab 8ft bed, original trans, how about that! It’s our farm truck that gets beat up, but it does cost me a grand or so a year to keep it going, as all it’s ancillary systems fail, compressor, alternator, all the brake lines, recently the trans cooler line, etc…. rust belt stuff, but the truck lived in AZ most it’s life, but now here in the NE it’s starting to rot.
A 2002 GMC 1500HD, with 275K, and also original trans, amazing. It spent most of it’s life as a commuter 2hrs a day on the highway and why I think the trans is still original. I got it at 225K. This was a great model, a CC, with 6ft bed but came with the great 6.0L engine. It also is costing $1-2K a year to keep it going with all the similar stuff as the ’99 above, but it’s not rotting out as it’s not in the rust belt. It does some logging stuff but mostly is just a spare vehicle, and the kids take it on all the logging roads to go fishing when they’re in town.
The Jewnteenth bidness makes me feel like i exist is a slave camp. Why’s dat?
It’s the concentration part of the “camp” concept.
Note to moderator: Kook alert.
Do you mean Rabbi Kook? Is that the kook you’re talking about? Rabbi Kook is the original Zionist, in the flesh.
Humor is no longer any fun in this world.
After 25 years, the GMC Coop shut down this past spring. I think they made a good living finding and refurbishing GMC RVs. All GMC RVs were built between 1973 and 1978. They were a profitable line of business for GMC but management decided that another pickup line would be a better use of the factory. Since then there’s been a very loyal fan following and owner’s clubs keeping them on the road, and GMC Coop was a big part of that club. I’m not sure exactly what prompted the closure, but I think the greybeard that ran the place was getting tired.
http://www.gmccoop.com
The RV had it’s issues, like most old cars, but they were all repairable. And there’s a small group of aftermarket fabricators and custom builders to fix ’em up and keep them on the road.
In many ways it’s my dream machine. One of those things that is basically just out of reach, both from a disposable income and skillset standpoint. Hopefully someone will pick up the ball and keep it alive, it looks like they are setting up a training and resource site for owners.
There won’t be that sort of devotion to EVs. No way. It’s not profitable to sell a well made vehicle, at least not with the current car sales model. The Germans (and Italians) have the right idea, build an incredible machine that has a complicated maintenance schedule that requires tons of proprietary shop equipment, but in the US all that ongoing revenue goes to the dealership, no (directly) to the manufacturer. Italy has the best of both worlds, hyper-expensive cars that need constant maintenance.
The reason Tesla is even remotely profitable is because of their proprietary charging plug and their proprietary charging network. Now that Ford is converting to Tesla Supercharger plugs that means Ford will just give even more money away to Tesla. EVs, if they get the bugs worked out of the battery managment systems, should in theory really reduce the maintenance schedule, even if the battery pack drops capacity. Even simple things like regenerative breaking will keep brake pads looking new for years. Just charge it and change the tires every 18-24 months. And because that battery is guaranteed to fail, nothing else in the vehicle should outlast it.
“they” just want to end private vehicle ownership – to force rural/self-sufficient folks into their more-easily-controlled cities
Only 1% of ICE vehicles make it past the 200,000 mile mark. Just 0.03% of cars roll over the 300,000 mile mark.
Will 1% electric vehicles last for 200,000 miles?
The correct answer is we don’t know for sure. But we do have some data on battery life. 1,000 to 1,500 charges should be possible, based on field studies of old batteries. 1,500 charges assumes minimal fast charging in a moderate climate. Batteries do not like very hot or very cold climates. The batteries will not be worthless after 1,000 to 1,500 charges. They will simply hold less of a charge.
1,000 charges at 245 miles per charge would be 245,000 miles.
1,500 charges at 245 miles per charge would be 367,500 miles.
I assume a 350-mile EV range with a 100% charge and a 245 mile range when keeping the charge between 10% and 80% for the longest battery life.
I have nothing good to say about EVs, from the high price to the inconvenience, but no one currently knows that they will NOT last a normal lifetime of 200,000 miles.
The batteries and case that auto manufacturers and dealers think ought to cost you $10,000 to $20,000 to replace, costs the manufacturers less than $5,000.
The green zealots demanding unreliable electricity from the wind and sun, while simultaneously demanding more electricity use with EVs, electric heat and electric appliances, are pushing our electric grids towards blackouts.
Dick writes:
“Only 1% of ICE vehicles make it past the 200,000 mile mark.”
Bullshit. The average car in service is now about 13 years old. It is routine for people to drive 12,000-15,000 miles annually. After 13 years, a car that is driven 12k annually will have almost 160,000 miles. If it is driven 15k annually, 180,000 miles. Cars with well over 200,000 miles are common.
You then proceed to make another absurd assertion about battery degradation over time: “The batteries will not be worthless after 1,000 to 1,500 charges. They will simply hold less of a charge.”
Well, Dick, if the battery was only good for maybe 250 miles of driving range when it was new – under ideal conditions – but has lost 20 percent of this range after a few years of regular “fast” charging, the best-case range is now just 200 miles. Which does not leave much margin. Also, once the battery begins to fade, it will inevitably fade faster – because it will be subject to more frequent discharge/charge cycling.
Very soon, it will be functionally worthless.
There is definitely a battery refurbishment industry taking off. Prius packs and Tesla packs now have unauthorized repair centers which do a fine job – but for now, the manufacturers try to void other parts of the warranty if you do an unauthorized battery repair.
The downside to battery repairs, though, is that these packs can turn a human being to a smoldering corpse due to a single little mistake, even someone experienced with them. They’re extremely dangerous to disassemble, so you end up with expensive equipment and procedures to minimize human contact with the innards.
I don’t doubt it, OL –
No doubt government subsidized, too.
Welcome to Richard Greene’s Social Credit System!
No thanks, not for me.
Dot Gov doesn’t care if you end up a crispy critter.
You bought the ticket to ride in an EV.
Where it goes, nobody knows.
It’s a circus, round and round she goes, nobody knows.
There is nothing in any of my comments about any social credit system.
I must be a 1%-er then. I haven’t had a car in 15 years that didn’t make it past 200k by the time I was done with it. Everything from economy cars, luxury cars, to trucks HD, light duty etc. Maintenence and routine repairs are key. Any car that doesn’t make it to 200k is a total piece of garbage, totaled in an accident or wasn’t properly maintained.
Just thinking about cordless tools that I use daily the battery’s never last as long as the tools and usually 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of the tool. After a couple hundred charges charging capacity drops significantly. The batteries seldom make it to the end of the tool’s warranty. Why would EV’s would be different? The laws of physics apply, and will continue to apply.
Guess I must be a one-percenter too! I haven’t bought a vehicle in the last 25 years that didn’t have close to or over 200K on it when I bought it….and I’d then proceed to put another 100K on ’em with no major repairs (Save for an occasional automatic tranny…they’re the weak link in any vehicle). AND I almost always manage to sell them for what I paid for ’em when it’s time for ’em to go- which is never due to mechanical issues but rather rust or paint.
Well, well, well.
Another meaning for the term “1&er.”
1&er
1. A member of an outlaw motorcycle club.
2. An aficionado of classic automobiles or motorcycles, who is dedicated to keeping the “old iron” in running, and street worthy, condition. We need our own patch. 🙂 Eric?
Also,
3. An aficionado of classic aircraft, who is dedicated to keeping the “old aluminum” in running, and air worthy, condition.
Such as these guys:
https://planesoffame.org/about/history-mission
And of course there are others.
Even if my gas guzzling vehicle “only” makes it to 200 to 330K, that battery is a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than the EV one. No one working for a living can pull $20,000 dollars out of their ass to replace an EV battery mid-way through trying to pay the damned thing off. I knew a family that had a station wagon (cannot remember what kind), where the odometer actually ran over, and re-set to all zeros, they had logged so many miles on it.
Hi Shadow,
In addition to my own experience (30 years in this business) I have two good friends who run repair shops – one of whom also sells used cars, many of which he buys at auction. Cars with 150,000-plus miles are common in his inventory as well as in his shop. My truck approaches that number and it is in great mechanical shape. The Dick says he retired at 50 so he is probably wealthy and hangs in wealthy, suburban-urban circles where – egads! – who would ever keep a car longer than ten years or so?
Eric,
Precisely what I thought. Most people are too POOR to afford new cars.
Also, I found this, in which “average odometer readings top[ped] 143,000 miles during 2021”. Now, how unlikely is it that a significant percentage of vehicles have 57,000 additional miles?
https://www.aftermarketmatters.com/national-news/odometers-numbers-spiral-for-all-vehicles-types/
Indeed, BaDnOn!
In my circle, almost everyone is driving a vehicle at least ten years old and 15-plus is common. Working class (and even middle class) people cannot afford to spend (or are interested in spending) even $35,000 on a car. Forget the roughly $50k the average new car “transacts” for. Also bearing in mind what it costs to insure a $35-$50k car (vs. a paid-off old car that you can buy minimum liability coverage for).
The trend is becoming clear that cars – new ones, at least – are becoming the indulgences of the affluent. As was true 120 years ago.
Eric, Road & Crack must’ve used only Fiats to compile their ‘1%’ data. Maybe they shoulda oughta used Toyotas and Hondas.
I remember back in the 90’s when I was schlepping junkers, almost every Toyota and Honda I picked up (And these were cars that were mostly from the 80’s) almost always had at least 250K miles on ’em..and still ran just fine, but were being junked either due to NY rust or accident damage.
I also picked up a LOT of GM crap…which usually had less than 100K….and had blown head gaskets/engines/trannies or other mechanical issues that weren’t worth fixing.
><Road & Crack must’ve used only Fiats
Hey, hey hey.
Knock it off with the Fiats, will ya, Nunzio?
My 131was a great little car. 🙂
Awww, now Adi, I’ll be the first to admit that us Dagos can make some good pasta, and even bicycles….but even I have to say that when it comes to making cars, WE DON’T HAVE A CLUE! (We’re good at fixing them though- Guess it’s in the blood from our relatives acroos-the-cesspool having to drive those Fiats!)
I have a 2020 Jeep Renegade that was supposedly made in Italy and have had no problems with it. I think they are popular too. Maybe Eric can speak to the overall quality as compared to similar models?
Hi Cashy,
Your Renegade is related to the Fiat 500X which – interestingly – is the only new Fiat still available (the rest of the lineup isn’t, here). This suggests both are popular enough to justify their continued production. The Renegade is basically a more capable version of the Fiat. You might be interested in my review of the ’22, which is here: https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2022/03/24/2022-fiat-500x/
>when it comes to making cars, WE DON’T HAVE A CLUE!
Not even Enzo’s best???
Jesus, Nunzio, what are you, a “self-hating Italian?”
🙂
Fiat 131 (the Abarth rally version) was world rally champion (20 times) in its class, back in the day (late 1970s). My ’78 Brava was a joy to drive, and very reliable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_131
1756 cc DOHC hemi, single 2bbl Weber, 5spd OD, monocoque chassis, cost me, IIRC, ~$4600
The 124 Sport Spyder was a great car also, and far outclassed the British junk of that era.
The main thing was to *RTFM* and CHANGE THE GILMER BELT at specified intervals, otherwise your engine will be a pile of junk when the belt breaks. Customers would neglect to do this, then blame Fiat for the engine failure. Dumbshits.
And then there were Alfas…
**”Nunzio, what are you, a “self-hating Italian?””**
Well, you know what they say- ‘Every Eye-talian has a little Jew in them’. (I hope it’s not Woody Allen…)
**”And then there were Alfas…”**
Awww, geeez, now I’m REALLY embarrassed for my fellow Spaghetti-Americans! (But at least the English make cars too…so that takes the heat off of us a little. Lucas!!!!).
Hey, look, even Ferraris and MaserROTTies…6-figure cars, and they spend most of their time in the shop; and ya have to take the engines out to change the spark plugs!!
Hey, your old Fiat does sound pretty cool though. I drove a Fiat Spyder once which I was curbstoning…gotta say, it was kinda fun.
My brother just bought himself a 1984 Dodge 3/4 ton PU in nearly pristine condition for $1500, less engine. Desert car, no rust. A hemi V8 out of a rear ended wreck, plus paint to the hood and roof (all of which he will do himself) will yield a “like new” PU for probably <$3000.
All his other vehicles (4 total) are 20th century models as well, including a Ford F800, Chrysler sedan (426 hemi) and two Jeep Cherokees, one of which (the newer model) he plans to sell.
Oldtimers* forever. 🙂
*German slang for an older model auto, as opposed to an older mode human.
I’m green with envy!
The F800 (the Incredible Hulk, a.k.a. Green Monster) is an old Forest Service truck, thus USFS green. Cummins diesel, 5th wheel, dual rear wheels, about to get the transmission upgraded to a 13 spd Fuller. It can tow *ANYTHING*. 🙂
‘F800’… Oh, that just reminded me of someone I knew when I was hauling junk (and actually worked with occasionally when I had a big truck to tow).
Jack Martin- He had an old 1970’s F800 with graphics that said “King Kong”. Big fat guy who fancied himself a ‘pro-wrassler'(wrestler). Don’t imagine he won any matches, because I can’t see anyone allowing themselves to be pinned by him, as he STUNK to high heaven.
So I get a call from a friend one day- “Turn on the TV! Jack Martin is on People’s Court wearing a dress!” -I zipped over to my mother’s to see, and caught the last few minutes of it… Apparently the guy was being sued…something to do with a wrassling school he was running….
I always remember that “King Kong” truck though (I think that was his wrassling name)….and the stench of riding with the guy when I needed to pick-up a few big trucks….. (No A/C in that truck!).
Then, some time later, I go to look at a tow truck that was for sale…turned out to be owned by another wrassler, named Mick…who talked just like Sylvester Stallone….
I could write a book about the characters I met…. Then there was ‘Rich The Nigger’…he’s not black…..
Greene is a gibberish-spouting troll bot that should be disregarded, just like those who tell us about “opportunities” to earn $90,000 per month for only 20 hours of work.
But his hypocrisy is so entertaining. I would immediately dispute all the figures he poses in the above comment. I’m currently driving a Honda with over 200k miles on it, and it’s running fine.
Notice how Richard talks up the EV and then denounces it, all in the same comment? He doesn’t stand for anything except Richard Greene.
Similar story here, Mr. Kable. All 3 of my trucks have over 200k+ miles. Regarding Mr. Greene and what he stands for: Somewhat of a head-scratching conundrum, doubtless. I can appreciate other viewpoints, but I can’t be sure which point he’s viewing all that often.
My old WRX is 17 years old, replaced the original clutch (standard) at 219K, and it has 254K on it. Will eventually need to replace the turbo in it, but it is still a lot of fun to drive. And when we had that two foot of snow dump a few years ago back in April, the all-wheel drive and standard tranny was a God send to have. Never mind it does not have the saaaafety crap on it, which is another reason to keep it.
Do you only respond with childish insults, rather than quoting at least one sentence of what I wrote, and then trying to refute it?
It’s gibberish.
Mark Twain advised that one should never argue with a fool as onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. I’m going to heed that good advice here.
Morning, Mister!
The Dick is just that. His habit is to post something oily or misleading and then claim he was “only kidding.” Or parse it endlessly, like a Rabbi pedantically explicating the Talmud. He pretends to authority – as if he had any. Most annoying, however, is his supercilious habit of presuming to lecture me about what I cover and how I cover it. As if he knew better. As if it were his place to offer such “suggestions.”
His type is insufferable. My friend Graves – who sometimes posts here – will know precisely what I mean when I say the Dick is just like Michael Abraham.
Whatever happened to the dancing clover picture that you used to delegate to such as these. Perhaps it can be modified to be sporting a dick for certain use cases?
Hi BAC,
One of the “updates” rendered it no longer possible to insert that into the comments. Sigh…
>Richard Greene June 20, 2023 At 7:07 pm [U.S. East Coast time]
High noon in Tel Aviv. 🙂
>like a Rabbi pedantically explicating the Talmud
Goes with the territory. 🙂
I actually don’t disagree with Mr. Greene on the 1% making it to 200,000 miles. Every single vehicle that I have owned (other then my current driver – which is approaching 170K) has made it to the 200K mile mark, but that is rare compared to anybody I know (including my own husband). Yes, the average vehicle is 13/14 years old, but the majority of people don’t drive. If someone drives their vehicle an average of 12K per year and owns it for 14 years that’s 168K miles.
Most people start trading it at 100-150K, because there is no resale on a 200K mile car. I know tons of people who have older cars (10, 15, 20+ years) none of them have made to 200K. Unless, someone is a traveling salesman or someone with one hell of a commute the majority of cars do not see the odometer land on that figure. Most cars start having significant problems at 175K+ and unless one owns a toolbox and actually knows their way around a motor the typical folk isn’t going to sink money into an object that is labor intensive and/or expensive.
So although it sounds crazy (and awfully low) I can’t disagree with Richard on this. The EV battery life, on the other hand…..
Raider Girl,
“Most cars start having significant problems at 175K+ and unless one owns a toolbox and actually knows their way around a motor the typical folk isn’t going to sink money into an object that is labor intensive and/or expensive.”
Well, that would be me and many people I know. Some repairs are expensive, and when you own an older vehicle, you may need a repair or two every year. But compared to even a $30k new car and the ~$500/month or more payment you must make, is making repairs all that comparatively expensive? It’s much better to DIY if you can, but with that magnitude of debt, even putting your old car in the shop might be preferable.
Vehicle longevity depends on the vehicle, of course. Semi-trucks often make it to a million miles or more. Now, after a quick search, I didn’t find anything indicating the percentage of cars on the road with >200,000 miles, but I found this: https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study
They claim “The average vehicle has only an 11.8 percent chance of lasting 250,000 miles”, and although that doesn’t necessarily mean that ~12% of vehicles on the road have more than 250,000 miles, I sincerely doubt that just 1% are >200k miles, especially these days. I’m sure it was true at some point, but cars built in the past 30 years last longer, and people are poor and keep cars for longer.
Hi BaDnOn,
Here is the 1% figure:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/g19661272/longest-lasting-cars/
Auto loan debt in the USSA is currently $1.55 trillion dollars with an average of $62.2 billion dollars of new auto debt being accrued monthly.
Do I believe cars built today can last 200K or more? Absolutely. It is not that the autos don’t operate, but the majority of people don’t want to drive them. When my car approaches 200K miles I start shopping. Every auto that I have sold (or traded in) with that high of mileage is good for nothing other than parts and that’s how I have sold them. Are there people who purchase and maintain high mileage vehicles? Yes, but $60 billion a month in new auto loans shows that these individuals are rare. Americans are enticed by shiny new objects. Shiny new objects put most in arrears, hence the $1 trillion + in car loans.
It is very similar to a time where one would purchase a house when they first married and lived there for the next 50 years of their life. How many times in this day and age does that still happen? I would say a handful. It is not unfeasible nor impossible – just an oddity. Put it up there with people who actually are still married 50 years later. Another anomaly. 🙂
If there are 276 million autos in the US 1% would equate to 2.76 million autos with miles over 200K. That’s sounds pretty reasonable in our current day and age.
Hey Raider,
While it can be calculated accurately from this information whether the 1% figure is correct, I will say that this is an obscene amount of debt. Using your figure for the number of vehicles on the road, that is ~$5600 in debt per car. Ridiculous, especially since we know that many of those cars are paid for and that the average car buyer is in much greater debt.
I saw that Road and Track figure, though I’m still not sure from where they obtained or calculated that. The iSeeCars article didn’t state this. Not that it’s impossible for only 1% of cars to be over 200k miles, and I’m well aware about how people like shiny things, and even $50k fishing lures, but it causes friction with my daily experience.
Hey RG!
We’re among that group of anomalies 😆 when we bought this house in 1974 (for 33k) I promised my wife that someday we’d move to a “50 thousand dollar house” which was the equivalent to the Taj Mahal back then. We ended up staying put and now live in a million dollar house, thanks to the Fed’s inflation. I worked at the same job for 44 years, which also seems to be an oddity nowadays judging by the reactions I get from younger people who I meet and are on their 3rd job in ten years. We have definitely lost something along the way.
We also celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary last year, I wish the same someday for you and your hubby.
Congratulations, Mike! That is wonderful that the Missus and you have made it 50 years plus. 😊 I hope you both had a wonderful celebration to mark the occasion.
Hubby and I are halfway there. I don’t see us moving either. There is something to be said for a paid off house. The lure of a bigger home and new mortgage drops drastically. I do go through phases. I would love a 100 acres somewhere quieter and then I realize how expensive it would be and I talk myself out of it.
RG agrees with RG
That could hurt your reputation here!
I just posted a long comment with five quotes and links to defend the 200,000 mile claim. It was sent into moderation for too many links. Maybe it will show up someday. Only about 1% of automobiles are driven over 200,000 miles. An EV should last 200,000 miles. At 7,000 miles per year average, 200,000 miles in an EV would take 28.6 years.
As of today, there are not enough data available to claim that n average EVs will not last as long as an average ICE automobiles.
That might be true, but it is speculation, not a fact.
Yes it could.
Richard, what is your source for the 1% and 0.03% claims?
I would not consider commenters on EP Autos to be a representative sample of car owners, so our personal stories don’t carry much weight on this. I submit that Eric’s readers are much more likely than the general motoring public to maintain/repair/keep their vehicles.
Other claims made here are either anecdotal or just arithmetic (this many annual miles times this many years equals this).
“Eric’s readers are much more likely than the general motoring public to maintain/repair/keep their vehicles.”
I’m sure that’s true, Roland. I have to replace most of my Chevy’s cooling system this week, for example. :p
I’m curious as to Greene’s source, as well. I’d say DMV records, perhaps, but I know in Az, they don’t seem to care much about your odometer, so the data they have might be highly inaccurate. Emissions testing data would be more accurate, but only represent the urban areas.
I posted a comment with five quotes and five links supporting the 200,000 figure. One was from Road and Track, another from iSeeCars, and several from auto insurance companies. It went into moderation because of too many links. It may never show up because it contradicts the false EP claim about 200,000 miles.
One link was to Road and Track:
“iSeeCars analyzed more than two million vehicles to find out which models have the potential to last the longest. On average, 1 percent of cars built every year make it past 200,000 miles.”
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/g19661272/longest-lasting-cars/
Mr. Greene,
This iSeeCars study didn’t cast a glowing light on the longevity of EVs.
Greatest Potential Lifespan EVs– iSeeCars Study
Rank Vehicle Potential Lifespan
1 Tesla Model S 133,998
2 Nissan LEAF 98,081
https://www.iseecars.com/car-lifespan-study
I would’ve thought they’d do better than THAT, as I’ve heard anecdotes from Tesla-driving taxi jockeys stating they’ve made it past 300,000 miles.
I don’t see any reference in the article that backed the 1% claim made by Road and Track. While this iSeeCars posits some interesting information and studies, I don’t see any type of database or API from which someone might assemble their own data analytics, unfortunately.
I though this interesting: “The highest mileage car on record is a 1966 Volvo P1800S, with over 3 million certified miles.” It looks to be a pretty snazzy car, too.
I believe the 200,000 miles data were accurate, and I provided many sources in a long comment with five links that went into moderation.
Current EV batteries are capable of lasting 200,000 miles.
That should satisfy 99% of automobile owners who do not make it past 200,000 miles.
How many miles EV owners will actually drive with their EVs is another subject.
They only average 7,000 miles a year, because they rarely take long trips.
It would take 28.6 years at 7,000 miles a year to reach 200,000 miles.
How many people would keep any automobile for 28.6 years?
If there are future improvements in batteries, such as solid-state batteries with double or triple the range of current batteries, EV owners will suddenly be driving a vehicle with an old, obsolete technology, and will want to buy the better solid-state battery EVs.
The biggest risk with EV ownership, in my opinion, is after a number of years new EVs will have much better batteries and/or they are cheaper, meaning your used EV worth much less than you had hoped. So far the Teslas have held their resale value well, but other EV brands depreciate faster than ice automobiles.
The Tesla Model Y has the best resale value among Tesla models, which retains 53.3% of its value after the first 5 years. Following the Model Y is the Tesla Model X with 53% resale value. The Tesla Model 3 ranks #3 with a resale value of 51.8%.
In addition to the fact that EVs in their current iteration haven’t been around long enough to yield useful real-world stats about longevity, I suspect that “early adopter” syndrome plays a part as well. I’d guess that EV owners are much more likely than ICE drivers to run out and get the next big thing as soon as it appears. They’re the same high time preference type who will stand in line for hours for a chance to put the newest iPhone on their credit card.
So those who are driving EV’s are basically free (and useful idiots) lab rats for those who manufacture and make them. I wonder if such EV owners even realize this? Let THEM buy the EV’s, and work out the bugs for the rest of us.
Morning, BaDnOn!
The Dick did his usual oily thing. He asserts: “Current EV batteries are capable of lasting 200,000 miles. That should satisfy 99% of automobile owners who do not make it past 200,000 miles.”
He says nothing about the effect of regular “fast” charging (and heavy discharging) on this “capability.” The manufacturers say that heavy discharging and regular “fast” charging should be avoided to “preserve the health” of the battery.
The Dick then says most EV owners “only average 7,000 miles a year, because they rarely take long trips.” He does not admit that such drivers constitute a minority as most people drive almost twice that many miles annually because they need to. Ergo, his next statement – “It would take 28.6 years at 7,000 miles a year to reach 200,000 miles” – is an epic fatuity.
It’s only 6:41 on the morning and I already feel like a drink…
LMAO, I put 21,000 the first year on this new vehicle I have. Richard can put that in his pipe and smoke it for all I care. 7,000 miles a year, what world is he living in anyway? He sure as hell is not living in these parts. Nothing is five minutes from anywhere! LMAO! What do you drink in a pinch, Eric, I will pour you a glass, ’cause we may all need one this morning.
If EP ever admitted to an error, I would be so shocked that I would faint.
I provided a long comment with five quotes and five links supporting
1% of autos are used for over 200,000 miles.
That long comment went into moderation yesterday but could still be seen on my computer screen. Today the comment has completely disappeared, I assume because EP does not want to be corrected.
No one knows how long EV batteries will last with a lot of fast charging because most EV owners do not do a lot of fast charging. Mainly, I assume, because they do not take long trips.
As of today, there are no data to claim 99% of EV batteries will not last at least 200,000 miles (1,000 charges at 200 miles per charge).
I know it is fashionable here to criticize EVs. I criticize them daily on my own blog. But the EV criticisms have to be based on data, not speculation.
“Lies, damn lies, and statistics” Mark Twain I believe.
Statistics are NOT facts. They are mostly projections made on selections of data, made by parties with skin in the game.
Yeah, John, like when they gave “the troops” metal helmets (Instead of leather or whatever)…the number of head injuries rose dramatically.
“Therefore metal helmets cause head injuries!”.
No, just that more ‘troops’ lived, due to not having shrapnel and bullets penetrate their helmets…….
Statistics are lies backed by math- at least when cited by politicians and those on their payroll.
My experience is different from yours. I buy em usually used then drive them until they drop. I have found fixing them even though I use a garage/mechanic is less than payments on new. Also they all break even the new ones. I have never had a vehicle I got rid of with less than 200,000.00 miles. My record so far is 389,000.00, I have have had 3 others in the 300K+ range (not including) my former current daily driver a 2007 Envoy with 310K.
I did break down recently and buy a new car. After Eric’s review I bought a Subaru Crosstrek with Manual Tranny, 2023 it cost about 28K off the lot. No frills, It does have the nanny crap, but is fun to drive.
If you did not guess, I drive a lot. Work related. An EV would kill me.
Richard, I would like to meet you for lunch. I think at one point you indicated you lived in Michigan. That is my home state. I am sure Eric could facilitate a meeting for lunch. Love to have a wide ranging discussion with a free thinker. My field of emphasis is diverse science fiction to track and field. We could have a wide ranging face to face discussion regarding a variety of subjects. Let me know.
I would be reluctant to meet anyone through this website because I am too often insulted here. Other than watching Star Trek, I don’t have much interest in science fiction. I am interested in UFOs, but don’t consider them to be science fiction. I know nothing about track and field. … I consider EP’s car reviews to be the best in the business and recommend every EV review here on my own blog. But he sometimes states conclusions on other subjects not based on data. Most people do that, but he has a much bigger audience. You can reach me at EconomicLogic@Yahoo.com
Perhaps if you were not so arrogant, self righteous and condescending, you wouldn’t be so often insulted.
You might also try not insulting others all the time.
Adding details, disagreeing or correcting errors in an article is called debate. It is not an insult to debate or disagree with an author. It is an insult for you to repeatedly character attack me, rather than debating something I have written in a comment.
Ok, I’m bored with you, again.
I don’t agree that Greene has been insulted or “character attack[-ed” here. I think most have been quite patient with him, despite the fact that his silly points are clearly design to be contrarian for the sole sake of being contrarian. Nonetheless, Greene’s butt hurt (as indicated in his reply).
Unless something changes in Washington, our automotive future will resemble Cuba’s, because for the time being, old cars are not being banned, but new cars are being crippled, so people will keep old cars running.
I’ve been wondering about the cost effectiveness of refurbishing old cars as a business. Pick some very popular cars, like Civics or Corollas or F150’s, and renew them as much as possible. It’s probably not possible because you can’t really fix a rusty unibody properly, and a lot of your work will be put into recreating interior parts, but one can dream.
I do suspect, though, that the US will follow Europe’s lead and ban ICE vehicles from urban centers, making them nearly useless in most places.
**”Unless something changes in Washington, our automotive future will resemble Cuba’s, “**
Cuba never had Cash For Clunkers; we did, twice..and will probably have it again…so old functional vehicles and the parts to sustain them (Junkyards are already going the way of the dinosaur) are already far too rare here for us to have the luxury of Cuba.
The change needed in Washington is for it to vaporize. The direction we’re going we soon won’t have an economy that functions as well as Cuba’s. The writing on the wall is clear. Unless we have a momentous change in the way we do business period, no business will be done. If people can’t buy, people can’t sell. The End.
DC keeps poking the Bear and we’ll all be vaporized!
A lot of the Cuban (US brand) cars have replacement engines. Sometimes diesel engines. The mechanics must be masters at making replacement parts they can not buy from the US.
True Mr. Greene. Only those old cars were very simple and used tons of standardized mechanical and electro-mechanical parts, seals, gaskets, etc. Many of which are still readily available even here to this day, and those Cookarachas are quite good at improvising and cobbling together things.
Many of those diesels they use there are from the South American/International market- stuff that we can’t get here- like the diesels they use in current model Jap pick-ups for the South American market, which we are not so fortunate to have, thanks to old Uncle Sam.
I’ve actually dealth with some people in the past (Mexican and African nationals) who would buy old Mercedes commercial trucks and old school buses and export them to their countries, and have immediately have the diesel engines rebuilt there for a fraction of what it would cost here, and then sell ’em to the locals. [The entire vehicles, with rebuilt engines].
Quite a lot can be done with a little ingenuity when one is not hobbled by Uncle, and only by mere communist dictators and corrupt banana-republic despots.
Yeah Nunz, sometimes I think we’d actually be more free if all we had to know was who to bribe.
The “Big Guy”, but I hear his price is up there. Not sure any of us even in concert could afford it. Our only option is option. 7.56 Nato. Hang on to your AR’s , may need them soon. Only thing “Big Guy” respects.
“Unless something changes in Washington”
WASHINGTON is changing, rapidly, from a Constitutionally limited Republic to fascism. If there is as much election fraud in 2024, as there was in 2020, conservatives will realize voting for fellow conservatives can not change anything. I expect such fraud in 2024, and I also expect a real civil war within a decade. I can’t believe Americans will tolerate fascism without a fight. THE FASCIST LEFTISTS ARE COMING FOR TRUMP NOW, but we are next.
Have you got enough ammo? I have a connection. 7.56 in 1000 round drums. Great for your AR 10. You will be able to fight the fascists on their own terms and NOT go for the ride as did many in years gone by.
I remember going to an anti-Q [antique] car show c.1984 and seeing some cars that were 50 years old- i.e late 20’s early 30’s, and thinking “They sure are purdy, but not vehicles you’d want to daily drive”. I see a car today that’s 50 years old, and think “THAT is a car! I’d love to daily drive one’a them!”. That is how ya know when a technology had achieved it’s pinnacle, and is now long past it, and on the descent to the point where it is destroying itself- only with regard to cars, such is by design[political decree] and not a natural evolution of the technology or of the free-market [I’m probably sounding like the late Ted Kaczynsky… RIP Ted, victim of the CIA].
Thing with EVs, is that it’s not just the batteries which render them prematurely obsolete, but also their reliance on software and delicate electronics which do not age well- especially outside of a sheltered/controlled environment. Same applies even to modern ICE vehicles, festooned with electronic engine and drivetrain controls; “assistive technology”, and over-burdening emission controls and Rube Goldberg-esque befuddlements, added to extract an extra tenth of a percent of better gas mileage, to the point where those systems become the number-one source of the need for repairs; the number-one reason late-model cars are totaled in accidents,even when the actual structure of the car would be perfectly feasible to repair; and the number-one reason said cars succumb to pre-mature obsolescence, even if the basic mechanical systems and bodies may still be perfectly viable.
Tl;dr; It’s the long con to rid the public of affordable viable cars.
With regards to EV’s, folks in my neck of the woods would like to see real-world testing before committing to such a new technology that costs so damned much. That is, see if they can run and handle the -50 below cold spells for months on end. How does the extreme cold affect the already lousy and inaccurate range? There is no such thing as a “short trip” up here, even driving to-and-from work. Can it handle range with the extreme cold, and hey, we also do not want to freeze our asses off in the cabin while driving it? Will it suddenly die on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, because the EV range displayed is wrong, or it drops precipitously due to the extreme weather conditions? Forget wanting to tow your snow machine or four wheeler somewhere, I do not see any encouraging studies (such as with the Ford Lighting) indicating an EV truck can do anything other than drive down the road looking pretty and not much else. Maybe years down the road, when there are real-world facts about EV’s (and not BS politics to colour such studies), maybe more folks would embrace such vehicles. For now, screw it, I will keep my gas guzzler, and know I will not get stranded in the middle of nowhere, and hey, as an added bonus, I can stay warm, too! And oh yeah, if they are so damned great, force the US Supreme Court members, all state governors, state legislators, and every last worthless member of Congress (which means no flying anywhere) to use them, seize their ICE vehicles, and then tell us how wonderful they are first. They should lead by example. But well all know the ones wanting to force us into these EV’s will not be the ones using them.
Hi Shadow,
I’ve been able to test several different EV models made by different manufacturers and in each case, the range in cold weather plummeted markedly. Add in hills, towing and driving at other than a Clover Pace and “your mileage may vary” by 30 percent (negative) or even more. Unlike the Dick – I can state this from my own personal experience, which I also documented in videos I took at the time.
Yeah, and getting stranded due to lousy EV range can get a person killed up here. Not that any one else would give a damned, but some people would like to not die due to the stupid EV not being reliable the way it should be. Or, as (falsely) advertised. Until technology is more refined and improved screw it, I am not going to buy one, and more people like me are going to hold onto their old, ICE vehicles. Especially if someone like Gruesome Newsome gets into Office and makes the sale of them illegal nation wide the way he is doing in California.
I have previously commented here that Ford engineers testing a variety of EVs in Northern Minnesota in December 2022 found that at about 0 degrees F., the EVs lost from 40% to 60% of their range. And that range loss does not include a 30 percentage point loss of range for EV owners keeping the battery charged between 10% and 80% to prolong battery life. EVs are not cars for cold weather.
Engineers also found the percentage charged indicator moved in mysterious, unpredictable ways. That may explain the following article:
“E-cars have a much higher risk of losing their charge, getting stranded on German traffic jam-plagued autobahns.”
https://notrickszone.com/2023/06/20/e-cars-prone-to-rapidly-losing-their-charge-getting-starnded-on-german-autobahns/
I have no idea how auto manufacturers will stay in business selling EVs.
But, but, but. . .I’ve been told by good authority that EVs are a sound product and may actually outlast ICE vehicles. In fact, EVs may last up to 367,500 miles on their original batteries and 99% of ICE vehicles can’t even make it past 200,000 miles! I know this sounds incredible, but you just can’t argue with the data.
Richard Greene said only a day ago that:
“Only 1% of ICE vehicles make it past the 200,000 mile mark. Just 0.03% of cars roll over the 300,000 mile mark.
Will 1% electric vehicles last for 200,000 miles?
The correct answer is we don’t know for sure. But we do have some data on battery life. 1,000 to 1,500 charges should be possible, based on field studies of old batteries. 1,500 charges assumes minimal fast charging in a moderate climate. Batteries do not like very hot or very cold climates. The batteries will not be worthless after 1,000 to 1,500 charges. They will simply hold less of a charge.
1,000 charges at 245 miles per charge would be 245,000 miles.
1,500 charges at 245 miles per charge would be 367,500 miles.”
Hi Shadow,
Heh, studies-schmudies- I should hope by now anyone with eyes in their head should know the answers to those questions. I think a lot more people are catching on to the fact that Eeeeee-Veeees are not practical nor economical.
The two groups who don’t seem to get it, are those who could never hope to afford an EV (They never have to consider the practicalities, they can just believe in the Energizer Bunny portrayed by the media, because they have no skin i9n the game and it costs them nothing); and the virtue-signalers who have the money for several “upscale” vehicles AND a $100K+ EV…’cause it just doesn’t matter to them either, as they can play make believe (Make believe they are “saving the planet”) and just trade it in when it’s no longer in style nor impresses anyone, long before it deteriorates, as they do with all of their vehicles.
My 72 year old Farmall tractor still runs fine with factory engine and trans. It was made at the Farmall plant in Chicago Illinois. The factory is gone now but there are loads of machine`s still on the job……Ev my ass……
While in college I worked part-time at an International Harvester dealer. To this day, no engine sounds sweeter to me than those old IH turbocharged inline sixes.
Obviously they built ’em too good. Should have had a timer in the block that would blow out after X number of seasons. That’s job security. 😃
This piece from Scripps celebrating Biden’s climate “investments” reads like a caricature of the government-media-climate complex:
https://tinyurl.com/32hes8hj
Nothing but uncritical regurgitation of climate propaganda, as if it were fact. To wit:
“For many, the announcements are a welcome sign of a government finally getting on board with investments long overdue: investments to protect Americans from a potentially deadly climate; one less stable and more extreme.”
Climate less stable and more extreme is the norm. The notion that a bunch of psychopaths can keep it “normal” is absurd. They can’t even balance a checkbook.
This “sustainability” stuff is just platitudinous bullshit designed to assist in the grifters’ goal of obtaining power and wealth at the expense of the populous. The bug of unsustainability that’s described in this article is an intended feature of planned obsolescence designed to “sustain” their cynical business model.
I agree with this article 100%. As a mechanic in an endless search for the perfect old car that will last a long time, I have observed that hybrids are also throw away vehicles also.
Toyota makes excellent cars. Those on tight budgets, who live a lifestyle far away from the military industrial banking complex of fatty paychecks can not afford new cars, and they need good fuel economy. Think of a redneck hunter who lives in Montana. Long drives just to get to town.
On Craigslist, an older Toyota Tercel is sought after, as is an Echo, or a Yaris. What we want is good reliability, ease of maintenance, and the best fuel economy. Gasoline out west is pushing $5 a gallon right now.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/emgarage.php?year=&make=&model=tercel&submit=Search+Garage
But what about that 15 year old Prius? How many thousands are you willing to risk and be the bag holder when the battery fails? The used car market is a tricky business for the buyer. Most people will hang on to a good car, but when they sense an imminent failure, they put it on the market while it still has value. So any experienced used car buyer knows this, and reads the ads carefully, then interrogates the owner before purchase. Now they have Carfax, which really tells you the facts.
Anyone who has worked on repairing batteries (like for power tools) knows that a repaired battery is never as good as the original. Same for cars. That after market battery may come with a 1 year warranty. So I see on the auto traders many Prius with a new battery, still under warranty, for sale. Obviously they want to unload the car before the replacement battery goes out.
Electric cars are in an even worse situation, since they have a huge battery, if it goes out it cost mucho shekels which you will surely not pay. Thus as an electric car reaches the average age of battery failure, expect the aftermarket price to decrease inverse logarithmically to zero. Only a fool would buy an EV before the battery goes tits up.
But that 1990’s Tercel? It can be fixed forever, easily, and on the cheap. The Tercel has a huge advantage over it’s replacements (like the Echo or Yaris) is that the Tercel has a huge hood, that when opened gives you full access to the engine compartment. Any backyard mechanic who has to pull the engine from a tree limb will appreciate that.
Unfortunately for the Amerikan tax slaves, the 1.3 liter engine was never offered in the North American market, you can only get it in the 1.5 liter size – which keeps the Tercel from achieving Geo Metro level mpg figures, but still, any hypermiler can easily get their Tercel to give them 40+ mpg.
Something I study is the CdA number, Ecomodder has an extensive list:
https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List
You must check to see how accurate those figures are, but if you study it the Drag Area less than 6.00 is a very good number. But most cars are above that. An economical car will have a low Coefficient of Drag and a small frontal area, so that the amount of power it takes to push the car through the air is low.
https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List
How I drive is probably exactly the opposite of Eric. I NEVER push the accelerator to the floor. Accelerating to freeway speeds is not 15 seconds, more like a minute or two. I want fuel economy, not horsepower. Any fool can buy a new car and drive it like a maniac, but it takes great skill to drive a 40 year old car and keep it going down the road while all other cars are being crushed for scrap.
My next door neighbor drives a 2005 Prius with the Michigan license plate OilsGone. It looks like a dorkmobile but his battery is still fine. The hybrid batteries last longer than originally expected and do not cost that much to replace — they are under the passenger seat. In fact, you could dive a Prius with a dead battery pack.
My neighbor went shopping for an EV for his wife last year and decided against one. Too expensive (although he could afford one), and with our DTE Energy electricity 58% from coal, an EV charged here would not reduce lifetime CO2 emissions versus an ICE. He did the calculations (he’s an alternative energy consultant).
“would not reduce lifetime CO2 emissions versus an ICE”
None of them do, anywhere, as if that even mattered. Because they are NOT sustainable.
“you could dive a Prius with a dead battery”
Then how do you know your neighbor’s Prius battery is NOT dead? Because he or she told you so, so they wouldn’t look like a fool?
My neighbor is so honest that he discussed his personal finances with me just before he decided to retire. The wife and I retired at age 51 and he wondered how we could get by. The answer is we spend less an cash in investments as we need to.
I can also hear when his car is running on the batteries as he leaves his driveway.
So YOU say. But you often change your mind in the middle of a comment.
That charge of changing my mind in the middle of a post is false, and your claim that I am lying about my neighbor is false. What is your problem?
I don’t have any. What’s yours?
I did not accuse you of lying about your neighbor, I accused you of making an unsubstantiated claim.
In a past comment, the one that opened my eyes, you quoted this or that CDC statistic as perfectly valid, while criticizing this or that other CDC statistic as not valid. In the same comment. It’s the CDC that isn’t valid, and none of their Pharma promoting statistics should be trusted.
I used the CDC number for all cause mortality to prove the Covid vaccines had no effect on all cause mortality.
There were no other alternative statistics.
While I do not trust the CDC, if they wanted to make the Covid vaccines look good, then why would they report that all cause mortality barely declined after the peak in Spring 2020?
If they were going to lie about all cause mortality, then why not lie enough to make the Covid vaccines look like they were lifesavers, as Biden and Trump falsely claim.
CDC data supported my claim that Covid vaccines did not save lives. Why not use it? Otherwise my conclusion would have been “no one knows” if the vaccines saved lives.
This effect happens often with climate change. Politicians make many scary climate claims that are completely refuted by government data.
Just like the CDC data on all-cause mortality refuted politicians claims thagt Covid vaccines saved lives.
Over at Wattsupwiththat Chinais banking electric vehicles by the tens of thousands, parked in parking lots. EV counts, sales, are all bunkum and bosh.
The video is an eye-opener.
One comment predicts dead EVs abandoned in neighborhoods scattered in cities all around.
Not sustainable, no future, zero gain.
Heh, yeah, Drump- I also saw a video showing THOUSANDS of electric cars parked out in grassy fields in China, rotting away- No buyers -they were just manufactured for the government incentives/mandates. What’s gonna happen to all of those batteries with all of their dangerous chemicals as they rot into the ground? -Not to mention all the waste of the materials used to make those cars and their batteries! All just rotting away…. How “environmentally-friendly”!
Oh they were bought. By a shell company run by the manufacturer. But they have all the paperwork that shows the transaction taking place. Everything according to (the 5 year) plan.
I had a similar experience at a Verizon store. I had a problem with my phone and thought they might be able to repair it. Nothing but purple hair and tattoos. The women were more manly than the men. The display was like a cross between the Truman Show and Star Trek. Their analysis of the problem was that I needed a new phone costing hundreds. I left and went across the street to CPR cellphone repair. The professional young man looked at my phone, took a small pair of scissors and trimmed a dirty section of the screen protector. Seems the dirt was blocking a light sensor and that’s what was causing the problem. I asked him how much and he said, “No charge.” I gave him a 20 for his trouble.
Well, even the ICE-powered recent vehicles are most likely not going to end up being “classics”, either. Of course no one is going to want to keep some cellphone on wheels around for 50 years like an MGB, or an (original) VW Beetle. But, even though someone might want to keep a 2015 Charger around, the plastic inside, and the myriad of specialized bits under the hood will mitigate against it. 2002 Beetle TDI, and the inside door panels are pretty much a mess, due to brittle plastic disease. Ditto the “bumpers”, made of plastic, they’re starting to craze and lose their finish. $1200 to replace the “door cards”, and not even with new, but with good used. I suspect there is an “event horizon” somewhere in the 2000 timeframe, newer cars than that most likely cannot be economically kept as “classics”.
The newer cars with optical-based saaaafety systems requiring the forward facing cameras bonded onto the windshield will be tough to keep on the road once the components start to die or get damaged in a crash. The cameras will only be made for so long, and, unless I’m missing something, they are proprietary.
I turn off as many of the safety systems as I can, but I’ve had the camera momentarily fail twice, and the dash lights up like a Christmas tree when that happens.
I doubt I could get the vehicle through Texas inspection with the dash lights on.
And, yes, I know Texas did away with inspections starting in two years, but that isn’t every state. And emissions checks will still be required in the blue cities like Austin, Houston, and San Antonio.
“I suspect there is an “event horizon” somewhere in the 2000 timeframe, newer cars than that most likely cannot be economically kept as “classics”.”
I think that is exactly right, and the year about right. Cars went to shit when they removed the bumper and made is plastic surround, now even a minor impact causes severe damage.
I’ve got a 1965 Power Wagon W200. It has a full metal dash. So I know what you mean, the dash is just like the day it was built. Many newer cars, with plastic interiors, are not going to stand the test of time. I see 30 year old cars with severe dash degradation.
**”no one is going to want to keep some cellphone on wheels around for 50 years”**
Even if for some strange reason one wanted to….they couldn’t. Imagine locating a functional touchscreen 50 years later…. Or finding a compatible module that’ll work with your iteration of your model…and programming it, 50 years from now!
Hell, many of the engines in current cars can not even be had from rebuilders (Too complex and expensive to rebuild), and many manufacturers are not even selling new engines. Not to mention that electronics don’t age well, especially sitting in junkyards…not that that matters, as junkyards are going the way of feminie women and dinosaurs….
My neighbor who owns a repair shop asked me if I could find him an ECU for an 06 diesel Jeep Lie-berty [I still have some salvage contacts] as he couldn’t locate one, OEM, after-market or used.. Good luck with that! Unobtainium. [Lucky for the Lie-berty’s owner…no sense putting money into one of those!]
The camera on my newer car, the nanny likes to remind me it is blocked when it is covered with snow, which I find hilarious. Welcome to long Winters, car, get used to it! It is why I turned off the “steering assist”, as well, ’cause we do not care where the lines are on the road during the long Winter months. Neither do the state troopers, for that matter. We drive where the roads are clear, and to hell with the lines. The steering assist would have a fit with that-ha ha!
This is leading into the “mobility as a service” that the PTB are pushing on us. Very few will be able to afford an EV so just dial up a ride on your sail fawn peasant, and if your social credit score is acceptable an “autonomous” vehicle will show up at your door.
Mike, you hit the nail on the head. The whole business model behind EVs is one in which you’ll rent, not own, them.
If you are upper middle class, you will lease them every three years.
If you are lower middle class or below, you will use Uber or another Mobility As A Service Platform.
Great article Eric.
I brought up the absurdity of calling a vehicle whose (largely unrecyclable) battery weighs north of 90% of a full ton “sustainable” to my uncle just the other day:
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/40676/electric-ford-f-150-lightnings-battery-weighs-over-1800-pounds-by-itself
For reference, my uncle was the CEO of a “renewable” energy brokerage company called “Green Mountain Energy” based in Texas. He’s been retired for about 10 years now.
“Renewable” in scare quotes since while the energy source itself might be renewable, the contraptions manufactured for converting (and storing) this energy into usable watts at your receptacle most certainly are not.
Apparently, he and my wife were getting into it about the “need” to “transition” to 100% BEVs due to climate change.
Since I am totally deaf in my right ear, and we were in a noisy restaurant, I could not hear more than about 10% of my wife’s end of the conversation.
I also sent him the “my gift to climate alarmists” video by Tony Heller.
I don’t believe I changed any minds, but I left him with this:
I would no sooner trust the “assessment” of the IPCC that climate change is an existential threat than I would trust Exxon-Mobil’s “assessment” that there’s absolutely nothing to worry about.
The climate alarmists love to call anybody that uses data provided by hydrocarbon fuel companies (I purposefully never use the term “fossil fuel”) “Shills for the oil companies.”
So why isn’t James Hansen et al a “shill for the climate alarmist community” for exactly the same reason? Let’s set aside the East Anglia “climate gate” e-mails that should have completely ruined his credibility over ten years ago.
Where’s the assessment of the people with no paycheck depending on the data pointing a certain direction?
Anyway – my beef with the anthropomorphic global warming hysteria is very basic – no phd required: If it certainly wasn’t human produced carbon dioxide, what ended the last ice age and started the Holocene interglacial period we’re currently enjoying?
How can you state that a sea level rate of change several orders of magnitude higher than it is today was”100% natural” but today’s rate of sea level change (several orders of magnitude lower) human induced?
Tony Heller’s video jives with an article I wrote several years back:
https://socialmediaiskillingyou.com/2018/06/01/beware-of-charts-that-are-trying-to-make-you-outraged-or-afraid/
And if future weather is going to be extremely erratic, how does it make sense to rely on energy sources that will be completely dependent on favorable weather?
The most interesting facts about climate change are that few people noticed the global warming from 1975 to 2014, and fewer people noticed that global warming stopped in 2014, per UAH satellite measurements. If global warming was dangerous in any way, someone would have noticed by now. Here in Michigan, we noticed milder winters with a lot less snow than in the 1970s — that’s good news for us. We love global warming here, and our plants love more CO2 in the air.
> never use the term “fossil fuel”
Bravo. Well said.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakes_of_Titan
I doubt there were ever any plants or animals on Titan, yet there are lakes of methane.
I don’t trust anything our government says or reports but if true, yes Titan sounds fascinating. Oceans of methane and methane rain. Theres another moon that apparently has a subsurface ocean of water,
The formation of methane on celestial bodies, moons of planets, is not of biological origins, the sun is all hydrogen, 95 percent of the universe is hydrogen. Has to have an origin somehow, created to be there. How did the carbon form, how did the hydrogen form, had to be nothing at the beginning.
Total mystery there.
All of a sudden there are 92 elements and you have real life going on everywhere. Titan suddenly appears out of nowhere.
Termites emit methane all of the time here on earth. Termites are increasing in population, the habitat is expanding and favorable for termite invasions.
Trillions of termites are endangering the climate, somebody has to stop them!
Titan, the submersible, is at the bottom of the Atlantic somewhere near the Titanic that sunk on her maiden voyage on April 15, 1912 at midnight.
The Thresher was a US Navy submarine that fell apart and sank on April 10, 1963.
The lesson: Don’t name ocean-going vessels names that begin with the letter ‘T’.
Strike three, you’re out.
Too much risk there. Lloyd’s of London can stop insuring ships based on the name.
I find it amusing that some folks think the oil companies are against the green agenda scam. All corporations are behoilden and subservient to our fascist government. Not a single one would ever in a million years buck their orders from the global elites. Mail in voting and Tucker Carlson proved what we think has no relevance whatsoever.
‘This seems improbable given [EeeVees] are – fundamentally – disposable.’ — eric
Cast your mind for a moment upon the coming debacle of EeeVee heavy-duty semi trucks, mandated by the Peoples Republic of Californicate as the sole acceptable vehicles for drayage beginning 2024.
In their current diesel-powered form, these trucks run a demanding duty cycle and can rack up hundreds of thousands of miles. Probably their 10,000-lb batteries (which subtract from how much freight they can carry without exceeding highway load limits) will conk out much sooner than a diesel engine. What then?
Anyone with three brain cells can see that heavy drayage EeeVees are not ready for prime time. Has young Gaaaaaaavin joined Klaus Schwab’s “thinning the human herd” campaign? Or he just an airheaded Californicator with a pretty face and a helmet of blow-dried hair, flapping his pie hole for an adoring rabble of leftist presstitutes [sorry for redundancy]?
Hi Jim,
Newsome is noisome. An insufferable prick who lives a lavish lifestyle while working to enserf everyone not in his rarified circle of political-celebrity “elites.” He is far worse than Louis XVI – who was essentially just a bloated buffoon. And Louis lost his head. Meanwhile, the people of CA mostly do nothing about Newsome.
Newsom’s in-laws moved to Florida during the pandemic.
Last year, they wrote a $5000 check to DeSantis’ PAC.
https://nypost.com/2022/09/02/gavin-newsoms-in-laws-moved-to-florida-during-pandemic-report/
Hilarious. But they were probably trying to throw the orange man off the stage. I’m going to disrupt in a different way. I’m going for RFK in the Democrat primary.
I like what RFK, Jr. says these days. He comes across as a libertarian and a genuinely decent man. However, I’m skeptical of him. He was a pretty militant lefty just a few years ago. Is he out there to take the libertarian and liberty-oriented conservative votes away from Trump? If he loses the Democratic nomination and then decides to run as a 3rd party candidate, that’s exactly what will happen. Is this his (and the Left’s) plan to help keep the Left in power?
The thought has crossed my mind. I wonder if he has bigger support from Trump people than Demoncats.
I’m still voting for him in the primary.
I’d like to see RFK Jr. vs. Trump.
I’m afraid that’s the plan. Meanwhile the left will continue to retain power because the non-left vote will be split.
I actually hope so. It would be funny to see the corporate press have to pivot and say “Orange Man good now.”
RFK Jr running as a third party candidate: Funny how history could be repeating itself. It reminds me of how Ross Perot did the same thing, siphoning votes away from Bush Sr. and essentially handing an easy victory to Bill Clinton. Divide-and-conquer always was an old, tried-and-true war strategy. And then again, why bother when the powers-that-be can simply steal an election and install whomever they want regardless of the votes? And blatantly, right in front of clueless Americans who know and still do nothing? Elections are nothing more than bread-and-circuses, dog-and-pony shows for those who think that voting means anything.
Hi ML,
The Ferris wheel is looping back again. TPTB always toss us a “new and improved” version of someone plucked from the crowd. I admire RFK’s Jr. stance on no vaccine mandates and being anti war. Does he seem a likable guy? Sure. So did Obama. So did Reagan. So did Clinton (the Mister, not the Missus). All guys that one could sit down and have a beer with.
At the end of the day though he is a politician. They are in it for them, not us. No matter how much people hope that some Savior will free us from this global hell, it will not happen. The corporations, lobbyists, unions, and foreign governments checkbooks are much bigger than ours. They will always win out. I am tired of pretty promises. I want freaking results. E
Even Thomas Massie lost me last week when he voted with the Dems that Adam Schiff should not be censured. Personally, he should be strung up on charges of treason and perjury, censuring was just a slap on the wrist. They wouldn’t even allow that. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Socialist, etc. They are all Carnival Barkers. It doesn’t matter who the next puppet in line is. He/she will do nothing to change the direction of this country or even leave the rest of us alone to live in peace.
Did anyone know that 33% of all Congressmen today are lawyers? Why does our country continue to elect the most hated job occupation as representatives and believe they are in it for something other than themselves?
Hi RG!
I’ve said this before – and I think it is worth saying again: RFK, jr. seems to be sane. Not a pathological narcissist like Trump or (worse) a sociopath, as Biden clearly is. I admit it’s a low bar, but such are the times, eh? I don’t think RFK, jr. would countenance a police state; he appears to be an old-school ’60s kind of liberal. The kind that Leftists hate.
And notice what happened when the senior RFK, not to mention JFK, Malcolm X, and MLK Jr. started getting blacks and poor whites to come together around issues of poverty, and speak out against the war in Southeast Asia…they didn’t last long after that, you know.
@ Eric, Newsome is exactly what the Demoncrap deep state wants – he is getting their extreme agenda passed with flying colors, and Biden, is screwing up royally. First he lost Afghanistan, and now Ukraine … and Satanists do not take incompetence lightly.
Newsome, like Desantis, is competent. DeSantis is against the agenda, so he is out. Newsome is their golden boy, getting it done, so he is in, and might be moving up.
DC politicks is like a cesspool, the big chunks rise to the top. Newsome is the worst their is as far a governors, so I expect to see him selected as our globohomo one world order Satanic leader.
Also, I very much doubt he got re-elected after he locked Los Angeles down during the pandemic, there was a huge white flight out and for the first time in California history, the population dropped – even with tens of thousands of illegals streaming in. He even banned beach going – but got re-elected. He got busted not wearing a mask at his daughter’s b-day – during the mask mandate – and got re-elected. Really doesn’t compute.
Have you noticed that most states have governors that everyone hates? How does that work? The voting is rigged everywhere, that’s how.
Hi Jack,
It certainly seems fishy – in re the “elections.” Especially Kari Lake’s “loss” in AZ. The take-home point, for me, is that these creatures – the ones behind the “elections”- no longer care that we know. Because it doesn’t matter. Because it’s clear there’s little, if anything, we’re willing to do about it.”We” meaning any sort of organized opposition to them.
Gavin Newsom a graduate of WEF young leaders in 2005.
Yes, Mister Gavin is a traitor to his country. At least the People of 18th century France knew what to do with traitors. We re-elect them. .
https://thecorporateasylum.com/wef/gavin-newsom/
No worries, Jim H,
Looks like plenty of those vehicles will be on static display only, due to lack of electric power.
https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://www.pe.com
>California will fall 21 percent short of the power needed to meet the demand according to a new Pacific Research Institute report.
and of course,
> Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties have banned wind turbines in their unincorporated areas.
>After 2045, large dams, which provide 6% of the state’s electrical power, will no longer be contributors, as they are not considered a worthy renewable resource under California’s zero-carbon plan.
Goodbye Port of Long Beach
Hello, Port of Houston.
And CA. is already buying a good percentage of their energy from other states….and is planning on seriously increasing that percentage….
For awhile, anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Generating_Station#:~:text=of%20the%20plant.-,Decommissioning,scheduled%20closure%20date%20of%202038.
California is so bad all my leftists relatives who used to live there moved to other states.
The good news about California is if you wonder what the best climate and energy policy should be for your state, then you can just look at California and do the opposite.
Which pretty much goes for the entire State government. There is little to nothing they try that works. Unless the intent is to get people to leave the State.
great word Eric, sustainable, to debate eco-freaks and even casual wanna-be EV owners.
It’s really all you need to know for the eco-freaks, maybe not the casual EV buyer.
The eco-freaks will rant and rave about this and that and still not believe, but a small fraction might actually do real research and say ‘ohh-ooo’. The question becomes, will they be able to see through the censorship/propaganda?
Thanks.
Car collectors will have no interest in them either. The most valuable are cars that are in near original condition. The original engine, paint etc. The battery in an electric device will prevent that in all but very rare cases. It will be like those light bulbs still burning after 100 years, and note those bulbs are left lighted all the time to prevent them from burning out.
If there are some electric cars in collections in 50 years, none will have the factory battery. If its operates it will have to be something that was rigged up (maybe converted to gas engine). Granted that can be the case with gas cars too, but far more people are able to do that. Unless some computer hacking community thing (which so far hasn’t) happens most will be paper weights at best.
Hi rich. I wonder if there will be such a thing as collector cars 50 years from now. After the baby boomers die off, there won’t be many folks left who care about cars from the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, muscle cars, etc. Just like today, with a few exceptions, there aren’t many left who are interested in Model T’s and such. People seem to have the greatest interest in cars that were cool during their early teens to early twenties. Stuff from before they were born, not so much. 50 years from now, a few gen Z’ers might be interested in current Corvettes, Mustangs, Supras, whatever – although gen Z doesn’t seem to have much interest in cars at all. The problem I see however, is that I can’t imagine it will be possible to restore any of today’s current vehicles when they are 50 or 60 years old. With all the electronics, computers, plastics, parts that need to be compatible/programmed to a specific computer. You have Hyundais or Genesis with headlight assemblies that cost what, 9 grand? Whack the front end and set off the airbags, and along with headlights, the car isn’t worth fixing now, let alone trying to find those parts and restoring it 50 years from now. Most of today’s cars are disposable, electric or otherwise. They’re probably good for about 12 to 15 years and then they’re just not worth fixing. Nope, just like no one collects horse buggies anymore, I don’t think anyone will be collecting cars 50 years from now.
I’ve thought the same thing, but the current “classic cars” of the 50’s through the 70s are much more capable of operating in today’s traffic conditions than the Model T would have been in the 1960’s and 70’s, hence they are more relevant than the real old cars.
I think that restoring a car from the 80’s and on is going to be more difficult, but generic control systems can be designed to handle fuel management, ABS, and climate functions. That said, a full restoration to original performance wth original components is likely not possible.
Today’s cars are garbage. All of them. My newest car is a 2012 Acura TL. 200k miles. I chose Honda products because I actually drive my vehicles and need something reliable and relatively inexpensive to fix. It fits the bill. I believe I will be driving it an my Pilot for another 10 years, maybe 15, if parts are available.
I think collector cars will still be a thing, but they’ll be more like track day vehicles. Especially if full-autonomy and transport as a service becomes a reality. Enough people will bite, because at first the monthly rate will be far below the loan and TCO of your own car. But those low introductory rates will eventually climb as the subscriber numbers peak and more competition will start grabbing market share (and VC investment money). The cars will be redesigned for maximium servicablity, so hard plastic chairs, ugly graffiti resistant paint and shitty looking shatter-proof plexiglass (with knife cut penises and expletives etched in). And you’ll welcome the change… because remember that time the kid found the syringe shoved between the seat cushions? Hard seats are worth it, knowing what might have happened. Besides, you got that stadium seat cushion on amazon that seems to work ok.
Unless you’re in Aspen or Vail… then everything will be beautifully maintained and clean. Except for the graffiti commissioned by the city to ugly up the town in the name of equity.
Anyway, I think there will be cars manufactured for hobby use. Hand built vehicles in boutique shops. Trailer queens that are shuttled to the track or cars & coffee on Saturday but otherwise too expensive to drive daily. But not so expensive that a manager or tradesman couldn’t buy one. The feeder hobby will be driving sims on Playstation. And having a license will be a chore to maintain but badge of honor amongst some circles.
I use my 23-year-old truck to tow a 20-year-old trailer that’s hauling 95–110-year-old hit n miss engines, water pumps, corn crackers, etc. Something that resonates with people at these shows is my 5HP engine was built the same year that Titanic sunk.
Guessing 100 years from now there won’t be many collectors of today’s cars, gadgets, etc.
Mike, my Dad used to love going to those shows and seeing the steam engines and other machines that he worked with as a young man. I was with him one time when he ran across a tractor (gas) that he had owned back when he and a partner were doing custom wheat threshing. He could tell because it still had his pencil marks on the throttle.
Awesome story. Reminds me of my dad who bought a 4020 brand new in 1970. He was aghast seeing them at the antique tractor shows. I told him he was a well restored antique, lol.
Since the cost of any new auto and motorcycle is getting to the point of unaffordable, the demand for the old reliable stuff is automatically going to go up and cause the values to rise as well. The prices for any auto made in the late 70’s, 80’s and into the 90’s has been going up on nice well-maintained examples. There may be a market in taking these old autos, refurbishing them and selling them at a nice profit while providing affordable transportation. At any rate, that is a classic example of recycling and hell of a lot “greener” than any EV could ever achieve!
Cash for Clunkers 2.0 is coming for the “old reliable stuff”.
Legend is that a GNX got turned in for crushing last time.
That’s exactly what I’m expecting too, Roscoe. Another Broken Window Fallacy “investment.”
A friend of mine’s ex-girlfriend turned in her Fox body 5.0 at the time.
Yes, so called “up-cycling” is a thing with clothes and furniture where such items are fixed up, repaired and redone – and then resold. I think eventually there will indeed be an up-cycling car market, especially in states (like Cubafornia) where people eventually won’t be able to buy gasoline or diesel powered new cars.
Salespeople at new car only dealerships will sit around and twiddle their thumbs come that day (unless said dealership is in a wealthy area, where people who want EVs can afford to buy them). While dealerships that sell mostly or only used cars in middle class areas will be hopping and the salespeople there will find it hard to catch a break. Maybe it will be like Carmax on steroids – where the vehicles aren’t just fixed and cleaned up enough that they can be driven off the lot and pass the 90 day warranty, but rather seriously restored.
The one advantage an EV with a transmission would have would be when it is in neutral, the EV would roll and not be stuck in gear all of the time.
You can push it home if the battery dies before you make it to your driveway.
Just makes more sense. Don’t buy an EV if there is no transmission in the thing.
During the Medieval Warm Period the Vikings built buildings on Baffin Island in Canada to store goods. The Little Ice Age began around 1300 CE, everything changed, the Vikings abandoned settlements on Greenland, life got tougher to handle. Just too cold, had to move on.
Lief Ericsson sailed away, Newfoundland here we come.
It’s time for a change
I’m tired of that same ol’ same
The same ol’ words the same ol’ lines
The same ol’ tricks and the same ol’ rhymes
– Guy Clark, Boats to Build
But ol’ Lief didn’t have $20 million tied up in an Aspen ski chalet either. One thing to abandon your building because of the weather, quite another when you lose money too. All because the snow isn’t quite as good as it used to be, or just that it is better in Sun Valley.
5000 to 9000 years ago was the Holocene Climate Optimum at least +1 degree warmer than today. Optimum meaning a good news climate.
The IPCC claims +1 degree warmer than today in the FUTURE will NOT be another climate optimum — it will be a climate emergency.
When we climate realists asked why +1 degree warmer than today in the past could be good news, while +1 degree warmer than today in the future would be bad new, the IPCC suddenly decided the Holocene Climate Optimum never happened.
In previous decades, the global cooling period from 1940 to 1975, as CO2 levels rose, has been “adjusted away”, because it could not be explained. Inconvenient climate data disappear regularly when government bureaucrat scientists control the data. But they move slowly, as you would expect from bureaucrats, so we can see what they are doing.
The Planned Obsolescence of the electronic age makes the Detroit automakers of the 60’s look like a bunch of pikers. The lines for getting the latest I(diot)Phone are the stuff of legends. Always having the latest electro-turd is somehow a status symbol. AT&T actually did an ad shunning those that had held on to a functional device that wasn’t up to date. Shameful.
But your reference to your nearly 50 year old vehicles reminded me of when we raced at the Chattanooga Vintage Motorfest in ’21. They had a dozen or so Pre-War race cars. Not Pre-WW2 but, World War 1. Works of automotive art that were simply amazing. The work done to restore the Packard was must mind boggling.
Here is a short video of them warming up in the paddock before taking to the street course…
https://youtu.be/1g1YvkqQfuY
Mark, to me the cell phone store is the new DMV. I recently got a hand-me-down phone from my wife and wanted to switch from my dirt-cheap prepaid plan to a slightly less-cheap one, so I stopped by the AT&T store. There were three employees working, all young men with weird hair and earrings. One woman was already waiting ahead of me. The three employees were engaging in leisurely chat with the customers they were helping at the oh-so-cool little round high tables. One spent at least 10 minutes painstakingly polishing the glass of a client’s new phone, while they all ignored the growing line of waiting customers. Aside from the aforementioned polishing, I couldn’t see that they were accomplishing anything. After half an hour I left.
I had a similar experience at a Verizon store. I had a problem with my phone and thought they might be able to repair it. Nothing but purple hair and tattoos. The women were more manly than the men. The display was like a cross between the Truman Show and Star Trek. Their analysis of the problem was that I needed a new phone costing hundreds. I left and went across the street to CPR cellphone repair. The professional young man looked at my phone, took a small pair of scissors and trimmed a dirty section of the screen protector. Seems the dirt was blocking a light sensor and that’s what was causing the problem. I asked him how much and he said, “No charge.” I gave him a 20 for his trouble.
Yeah, it’s so cool when you find somebody like that. I saw a van the other day from Jerry’s Television Sales & Service. I didn’t know anybody “serviced” TVs anymore. Turns out Jerry sells furniture, appliances and carpet too.
I have gotten to the point that the disadvantages of a new vehicle outweigh the advantages. For Ex: blind spots, complexity, bland styling, nannying VS potentially higher fuel economy and safety. That’s probably why my 90’s Ford gets a new timing belt and assembly this week.
EV’s like the Baker are still going after after a century of use because they are simple and use lead acid batteries. On youtub you can see videos of $2,000 battery powered vehicles from China that use lead acid batteries and are simple. Good enough for short commutes, maybe they will be the future’s version of the King Midget.
If this was really about the environment .gov would mandate that new car owners must use and own them for 10 years minimum as most pollution is caused by their manufacturing. But it’s not. It’s about forcing you to throw away tens of thousands of dollars pointlessly to be environmentally friendly and do it over and over again.
Controlling you and your movement might be even more important from their viewpoint.
Indeed. In fact EVs are the only cars or trucks that are intentionally designed NOT to be sustainable. To protect the environment don’t you know. Unless one is quite wealthy, engaging in the EV thing is going to bring a lot of financial catastrophe upon those who do so.
Lead acid batteries in small simple electric vehicles would be a sustainable and repairable, cost effective option. But it’s not about the environment it’s about the money and that’s a totally different matter. As they said about that InstaPot company going bankrupt; once you buy one it’s not like you’ll need another one as their quite reliable. Lithium Ion EVs not so much.