The Strike

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Auto workers are on strike nationally, hoping to wrest more pay for the work they do. These workers might want to focus on the pay they’re going to lose when their work disappears, courtesy of “electrification” – which requires fewer workers.

And will lead to fewer buyers, too.

They might also want to consider asking questions about the underlying impetus for “electrification” – this bum’s rush to stop making things generally – which will result in less work (and no pay) since the making of things – not just cars – results in the “emission” of “carbon.” The latter being the latest variant in the ongoing mass psychosis event marketed as a “climate crisis.”

Carbon having a dirtier mouth feel than carbon dioxide, you see. The illiterati hear it and the desired association is made; it lays the necessary psychological ground work for getting them to accept their own enserfment  . . . for the sake of getting “clean.”

The Big Three automakers are losing billions in pursuit of that chimera – on “electrification” –  but the old grifter behind the TelePrompter says they ought to “share” their “record profits” with the workers. The etymology of coercion is fascinating. When a government official says “share” he means hand over.

Which he will inevitably “ask” the victim to do.

Anyhow, the fact is the Big Three – GM, Ford and Stellantis (which owns Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram trucks) – are not earning “record profits.”

They are hemorrhaging record losses, having bought into “electrification.”

In the case of Ford, these are reported to be in the neighborhood of $60,000 down the drain per F-150 Lightning pick-up “sold” – plus similar bleeding on each “sale” of other “electrified” models, such as the “Mustang” Mach e, which is a crossover SUV with Mustang-looking tail lights. Few people are buying the tail lights. They’d rather have the Mustang – which goes twice as far and costs about $10k less.

Ford CEO Jim Farley recently corrected his previous estimate of the losses incurred by “electrification” from $3 billion to $4.5 billion.

On the other hand, the record compensation received by CEOs who have embraced “electrification” – such as GM’s Mary Barra, who is paid just shy of $30 million for one year’s work –  probably does chafe the UAW line worker making $50k for a year’s work.

When the latter is out of work, he – unlike Barra – won’t have tens of millions to fall back on. And the prospect of being out-of-work increases as “electrification” waxes because there isn’t going to be much work left to do. An electric vehicle is simpler to assemble than a vehicle with an engine and transmission and related peripherals. It is basically an extruded plastic shell draped over a “skate” that holds the battery and motor.

Fewer workers are needed to put the two together.

But fewer people are buying these extruded plastic shells over skates, because fewer people want them – now that more people know the truth about them.

And because fewer can afford them.

The average price paid for a new vehicle – not just the electric ones – is already just shy of $50,000. This is roughly a $15,000 increase in the average price paid for a new vehicle since before the “pandemic,” which “stimulated” the economy with a tsunami of government-bankster-created money, thereby increasing the price we pay for everything by devaluing the buying power of the money we are forced to use to pay for things.

Autoworkers are feeling the pinch, just like everyone else (excepting the people responsible for all of this, of course; they have plenty of our money to compensate themselves for the costs they impose on the rest of us). Naturally, they want more money to compensate for the diminished buying power of their money and (thus) the higher cost of everything they need to buy, such as food and rent and electricity.

But if the UAW gets what it seeks – that being a general wage increase of almost 40 percent over the next four years – what do you suppose the effect will be upon the price of vehicles and not just the “electrified” ones?

The UAW’s leader, Shawn Fain, insists that paying auto workers just shy of 40 percent more for the work they do won’t result in the work they do costing their employer more, thus causing what they make cost more to sell – and thereby resulting in fewer sales. And he is demanding it at just the moment when buyers are having trouble affording necessities – let alone financing a $50k car using a six year loan at 8 percent interest. 

It is almost as logical as wearing a second “mask” to “stop the spread.”

And it is beside the point.

The autoworkers are focused on the wrong problem. They do not seem to see the existential threat to their economic existence posed by “electrification.” They do not seem to understand that the impetus motivating it – this dirty business of characterizing a gas that does not cause pollution as an “emission” and thereby accepting the absurd and false necessity of having to “clean” up those “emissions” – is meant to get them to accept the necessity of greatly diminishing if not ending entirely the work they do.

There will not be a one-for-one transition from making vehicles with engines to making battery powered devices anymore than there will be a one-for-one transition from cars with engines to battery powered devices. There will be fewer cars and by dint of that, fewer jobs needed to make them. Then there will be no negotiating over pay as workers who are out of work – who are no longer needed – don’t get paid.

If the auto workers understood this, they would not be demanding a close-to-40 percent pay raise. They would be asking pointed questions about this dirty business of forced “electrification” – and denying the lies about “climate change” that will put them and most of the rest of us into the poorhouse, if these lies continue to be accepted as true.

. . .

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141 COMMENTS

    • Pissed off slaves…

      What causes revolutions? When does the violence start? To find the answer, study one group: Dissatisfied, angry young men. Nearly every revolution in human history was started by this cohort, and if you want to know how likely you are to have a revolution, ignore everything else and study the angry young men in your society. Why are they angry? How many of them are there?

      Do they have a stake in society, and do they have incentives to maintain stability and keep things as they are or are they wholly disincentivized?

      These are the questions you have to ask to know if landlords are about to get dragged out of their houses and shot. These are the questions you have to ask if you want to know if aristocrats, celebrities, academics, journalists, and politicians are about to be beaten, killed, and paraded through the streets.

      https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-09-18/last-exit-revolution

      • Hi Anon,

        Yup. Ayn Rand – for all her faults – nailed this when she wrote about creating “criminals” by making as many things “illegal” as possible. And so it is. The former healthy association between criminality (properly speaking, defined as conduct that is meant to cause harm to others) has been replaced by a debased association of illegality with “criminality.” Perhaps the most blatantly inverted example of such “criminality” being that of trying to prevent your money from being stolen by the government (i.e., what is styled “tax evasion”). A society that endorses prosecuting and jailing people for that is a society untethered from morality; it is one that has become criminal.

        • At best, legality and morality are somewhat loosely associated.

          At worst, they have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

          Right now we are at neither extreme, but we have been heading in an entirely unwholesome direction for quite some time now.

      • The three laws…do no harm…honor your contracts and don’t steal….

        That is all that is needed…the deterrent to breaking these laws is…if you break these laws you will have a trial by jury by your peers…

        The people…man…is sovereign…not the government…so the government has no authority to make any laws…they are a joe boy hired by the people to fix roads, etc…..

        God is above man….but the government…run by the luciferion aristocracy say they are God now….above the slave, useless eater men….so they have authority…they say….

        • The three laws…do no harm…honor your contracts and don’t steal….

          Any laws other then these three are unlawful, unjust laws…fake laws…. made by someone that has no authority to make laws….

          test it in court….demand a trial by jury by your peers…..

          good luck trying to get one…..

          • demand a trial by jury by your peers…..

            sometimes this will get charges cancelled…they might think you understand too much…it will be a huge headache for them…they are in an unlawful position….so best to pass on it….they want people to lay down…self incriminate….

  1. Sad thing is if the strike goes on long enough the stock price will go up (remember this is very specific plants) or they’ll just initiate another buyback cycle. Management will do whatever it needs to do to make sure their options and grants pay out, and that might include telling institutional investors to just wait it out.

    Meanwhile the strikers aren’t making any money, so even if they get their demands they’re now negotiating from a negative position and will have to get enough to make up for whatever they lost by not working before they see any benefit to the new contract.

    Great time to be a boss.

  2. Can you imagine being paid over $83,000 dollars a day for job you’re grossly incomptent at and had no risk in taking it? After a complete taxpayer bailout? I think we’re at end days. I’ll defend my business to the end. But yeah clown world.

    • I agree, Mark –

      Now, I am the arbiter’s of no one else’s pay – in a free market. But we don’t have a free market. And it is telling that Barra is paid far more money than the chairman of GM was back in 1970 – when GM had 50 percent of the North American car market as opposed to the 16 percent or so GM has today.

  3. I’m on the unions’ side…kinda.

    My understanding is that the 40% number reflects what wages would end up being in 10 years’ time. Unless inflation suddenly stops (or even slows down much), which I don’t see happening, 40% in 10 years sounds like a very reasonable request to me. You can bet the c-suites won’t be settling for any less than that.

    I would caution the UAW that they might put themselves out of business if they aren’t careful. Wouldn’t be the first time the union did that.

    But I can also see “well, if we’re going out of business in the long run anyway, we might as well get as much as we can while we can, because they sure aren’t going to volunteer to give it to us.”

    Yes, unions have their problems. But there are reasons why they exist. Having been stuck for years working for a particularly horrible employer, I understand that one all too well. If a union card had come my way I might have signed it, at least for them. I’ve also worked other places where that wasn’t needed.

    • Unions are a great idea to protect workers when there is balance between their power and that of their employer. They undoubtedly helped us have safer workplaces; read about the Chicago meat packing district and the horrors that happened there, for an example of positive change due to unionization.

      However, the law is now twisted in favor of unions, to the detriment of employers, and the unions are such big political donors, that unionized businesses which are killed by unions are bailed out (eg, GM – government motors). If unions could actually kill their employers, then a balance would emerge, but in the automotive industry, we get bailouts. Creative destruction isn’t being allowed to happen. Cars built by UAW shops are designed to cut costs everywhere due to the increased cost of labor, and to minimize that labor, and it shows. Compare the materials quality from GM or Ford to something like Mazda or Toyota who also build cars in the US in non-union shops.

      If I was king, I’d not take action against unions, but I would also not save them and their employers from going too far.

      • ‘However, the law is now twisted in favor of unions.’ — OppositeLock

        It gets worse: in recent decades, all of the growth in union membership has been in public employee unions.

        ‘American government has a fatal flaw hiding in plain sight. Public employee unions in most states have a stranglehold on public operations. Voters elect governors and mayors who have been disempowered from fixing lousy schools, firing rogue cops, or eliminating notorious inefficiencies.’

        https://time.com/6267979/government-unions-corrupt-democracy/

        Both ‘Biden’ and his consort ‘Dr Jill’ are creatures and servants of these public employee unions, doing their bidding at every turn. Away with them!

        • I mostly support unions, but agree that government employee unions are the worst. Cop unions get the most egregious thugs, who actually get fired, reinstated with back pay. Teacher unions get their members full time pay for part time work, not to mention the summer off. All of them get pensions that exceed what most people make at their jobs after not that many years of “service”. Hope I live long enough to see the whole house of cards come crashing down when the taxpayers finally say “enough!”

        • We never should have abandoned the “spoils” system. At least we had a change every few years. Also the current holders had to have something on the side, a farm, a business, they could not count on being a political appointee forever. Unlike the “civil” service. Which has morphed into the most powerful part of our FED Gov. Think, Military, Spys, Law enforcement all the myriad alphabet agencies. It is a disease that will kill the host.

      • If there were a level playing field (there isn’t) and if everyone played fair (they don’t)…

        I wish I knew how to fix it. But I don’t, and if I did no one would let me implement anything resembling a real solution.

        So good luck everyone, you’re going to need it.

        • Hi Publius,

          The level playing field comes the day when you are able to work for yourself. Then you can be any kind of boss that you want. Employers pay employees to do a job. I won’t harp on corporate politics (which are absolutely horrific in most organizations), but there comes a time when we throw off the chains and say “I can do it better.” That is where freedom exists.

          • Yeah I’m gonna need at least 100 million to start a factory to be able to do that. And then deal with multiple EPA’s, OSHA, etc.

            Not in this lifetime.

            If I had it to do over again I would choose something that would allow me to put out my shingle at a low startup cost, maybe. But then again most of the available options there are pretty boring. So there’s that.

          • That’s true, once you have a reliable network to share your business card. Otherwise you’re spending 90% of your effort marketing your services to people who have no reason to switch from whatever they’re doing now to you.

            Unless you’re the beneficiary of dumb luck (IE: Oh, our guy just moved to Cancun with his secretary and we need to get this project done next week… so I guess we’ll give you a try), running your own gig is knocking on a whole lot of doors.

      • Was it?

        I applied to everything I reasonably could for 6 years only to get nowhere.

        Not gonna quit without something lined up if I don’t have to do that.

  4. Pretty clear what is going on. Eric publishes a thoughtful article. Then it is jumped on by some new poster with lots of talking points, kinda scripted, it varies a bit some are total assholes with profanity others appear to more erudite. The newest MB is one of the later. Paragraphs of talking points conflated with lies, MB gets more range than the manufacturer says it has. Definitely a troll, liar and time waster for us all. Hopefully it only works hourly.

  5. Good article, Eric!

    Speaking of Mary Barra:

    Last night, I watched the “Barbie” movie with my girlfriend, at her request. Though I had great apprehension at doing so, she often sits through my horror and bad sci-fi flicks, so I thought I’d return the favor…

    The experience was unequivocally painful. The movie was an assault on the senses: a hot-pink nightmare, punctuated by a deep-seated anti-male vitriol. It was absolutely detestable, in a way I’d not yet encountered in cinema. Even if the movie would’ve had an honorable moral or message, it was truly fucking stupid.

    Though my GF got a few more giggles out of the film than I did, she otherwise agreed with me.

    The movie portrayed our reality as run nearly exclusively by men, with some women maybe earning their way into the mid-echelons by the begrudging allowance of the “patriarchy”. It also portrayed the executive staff of Mattel as exclusively male, which it is not. Out of 11 executive leadership in that company, 4 are women, including the Executive Producer of Mattel Films… Hmmm.

    They also implied that the SCOTUS was entirely composed of men, though there are 4 women “Justices”.

    Back to Mary Barra: I brought her up on our discussion after the movie, and how she kowtows to government, rather than making decisions based on the needs and desires of the customers who buy her cars. …Or would, if they were what they wanted or needed.

    • ‘Unless the goal is TOTAL DESTRUCTION…..’ — Zane F

      In that case, here’s your man …

      ‘A hero’s welcome awaited President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine on his first trip to the United States last December after Russia’s full-scale invasion, which came on the heels of two back-to-back military advances that showcased Ukrainian momentum to the West.

      ‘His second visit, beginning on Tuesday, is more delicate, coming in the face of skepticism and a slow-moving and so far inconclusive counteroffensive. Mr. Zelensky will attend the U.N. General Assembly meeting in New York. Then he will travel to Washington to meet with congressional leaders and visit the White House.

      ‘Jake Sullivan, the Biden administration’s national security adviser, said that “the American people do deserve a degree of gratitude” for ammunition, air-defense systems, armored vehicles and mine-clearing equipment.

      ‘Mr. Zelensky appeared to get the message. “Thank you so much,” he said.’

      https://archive.ph/PSaHn#selection-687.68-695.28

      Thanks for the $100 billion, losers. Now spot me another $24 billion by tomorrow morning, and I’ll slope off …

  6. Unions suffer from the belief in the labor theory of value.

    Selling your labor is a market unto itself, and you are in competition with all others selling their labor. Best cost/value proposition wins.

    Unions try to circumvent that via claiming a monopoly on that labor.

    Monopolies are claimed to be bad because it leads to higher prices at lower quality.

    So…monopolies are bad except when it comes to unions?

  7. The Boeing assembly plant in Auburn out there in Washington State has a titanium gleam!

    If you are a good worker, there is a job for you. Just don’t live near Sea-Tac, Bellevue is the place to be. If you are a Jew out there, you live on Whidbey Island.

    Take the ferry to Orcas Island for some fun.

    Gig Harbor is out there too.

    “The Needle is Goddess, Space is the Place” – graffiti on a wall in downtown Seattle

    54,000 gallons of number one jet fuel to fill the tanks in Air Force One is all good.

    One gallon of gas for you, all bad. You are going to kill granny!

    You deserve to die!

    Carbon dioxide is going to kill everybody! Run for your lives! The sky is falling!

    What a bunch of idiots.

  8. I like how unions went from being about ‘worker safety’ (A la the Triangle Shirt Waist factory fire disaster) to being nothing more than strong-arm organizations that exist to extort more money from employers than what workers bargained for, and to control industries for the advantage of favored companies.

    And Pedo Joe says businesses should ‘share their profits’… Hey Joe, are you going to ‘share’ your wealth, which you acquired by never doing an honest day’s work in your life, but rather by taking taxpayer’s money and bribes? But you want others to ‘share’ their wealth..wealth which has often been legitimately earned through investment and productivity, and has already been looted by you and the other grifters in your gang of thieves through “taxes”.

  9. Trying to save a fail:

    According to David Niven, director of Ford’s
    Technology Research division, “Performance is
    the biggest complaint of our EVs, so we
    developed a secondary engine to retrofit onto
    our truck line. It’s a small 1.3 liter diesel
    engine fitted into the truck bed or an extended
    module added to the bed. The driver has manual
    control over when the secondary engine kicks in,
    like during an uphill climb or towing scenario”

    ——————

    Ford needs to remember the adage, “cut your losses short”.

  10. The 40% is just the beginning of the ludicrous demands. 32 hours of labor a week for the price of 40 is also being demanded. The icing on the cake is the demand for return of “traditional” (defined benefit) pensions.

    The pension is the one thing that would sink all the OEMs. There is a good reason companies stopped offering them. It is mathematically impossible to keep that promise ( unless you can print your own money that is).

    There is a reason GM is known as “an annuity company that also happens to build cars.”

    I use to be a “buy American” guy. That was before I got a real taste of the UAW up close and personal working as a mechanical engineer at Chrysler and as a supplier to Ford.

    I have been to 15 different assembly plants between Chrysler and Ford. haven’t been to any GM UAW plants but from stories I’ve heard, they are very similar. All UAW plants. In every instance except 3, I have had a terrible experience with UAW “workers.” Infuriating experiences.

    12 out of 15 negative experiences is no a “fluke.” Its the status quo. And it’s not just me who experienced these things.

    In fact – every exceedingly rude, entitled employee I’ve ever had to deal with in 30 years doing this, was represented by the UAW.

    When I say rude, I’m talking about raising their voice at the drop of a hat where spit it coming off their lips and landing on your face. Cursing loudly and insulting me in public settings, etc. All for trivial issues that anybody else would consider just a normal hiccup in the course of doing business.

    Again – not saying there are no good UAW workers, but the mindset and contracts seems to give the psychopathic types free reign and make everyone “Equal.” Equal meaning no more efficient as the least efficient worker. In fact, I have heard many complaints of efficient workers being told to “slow down” to not make the lazy asses “look bad.”

    I’m talking about not allowing people who absolutely needed to see the assembly process actually see the assembly process, until it is escalated up the chain, hours of meetings involving 5 figures of wages being wasted, and days wasted.

    I’m talking about having to redesign parts and spend a lot of money to “Fix” an assembly issue that only seemed to occur on cars made on second shift, but never on cars made on first or third shifts. So even though we had evidence of 60,000+ cars built on first and third shifts showing zero issues, we still had to change the part, add cost, weight, and complexity to make sure the fuckup on the second shift didn’t keep fucking it up.

    I made it my life’s mission to only buy vehicles from non UAW plants after that. I haven’t driven “American” since 2002 and couldn’t be happier.

    The UAW can fuck off for all I care.

    On the same had, the CEOs can fuck off too. They are too cowardly to push back against this push to all BEVs, even though all of they are surely smart enough to realize the math for BEVs just doesn’t add up to anywhere near the same level of revenue they are currently generating.

    The good UAW employees will find work – even at higher wages. In any “union,” the exceptional workers are guaranteed to make the same wage as the fuckups. That is the essence of “collective bargaining.”

    • Hi Blake,

      I got a little taste of union culture when I first got into newspapering. At a newspaper, where the pressmen in the composing room were unionized. This was in the days when a page “dummy” was still put together by hand. I once needed to change a sub-hed on an article and just did it myself rather than waste time trying to find a make-up guy to do it. It was as trivial as changing “the” to “a,” a typo I’d noticed while reading the piece on the boards. You’d have though the Hindenburg had crashed (again). Oh, the humanity! I got bitched at by the foreman and told it wasn’t my job to make such corrections. I learned something about unions that day.

      • Also if you get the chance to work at Japanese or even German plants in the US you will see the culture is completely different. The union environment creates an us vs. them attitude that makes it seem as if everyone is at war with each other.

      • I had a similar situation. I was management in a union utility. Back in the 90’s, they were upgrading the telephones to fancy ones with call forwarding and all that stuff. Phone arrives in the mail, I opened the box, unplugged my old phone and plugged in the new one to the wall socket. Couple days later, a union tech shows up at my office, says he’s here to install the new phone. Sorry pal, already done. The union filed a grievance against me, said I took their work away from them. The union tech got an extra days pay and I got a ding on my HR file for that. What a bunch of BS.

      • When I was starting out in my career many years ago, I was working a booth at a trade show, since that kind of rubbish work went to the new guys.

        Our booth had a computer which was unplugged, so I plugged in. I wasn’t aware that only the union contracted for setup in the convention center was allowed to plug and unplug stuff, and one of their lackeys noticed.

        So, I was dragged into a back office, yelled at, and the union called for my firing. I didn’t get fired, but was also yelled at by my boss about an arrangement that I was never even aware of. These unions are ridiculous in some places.

        • Good morning, OL –

          Your story (about unions) jibes with mine. I got a similar lecture for my transgressions. It still astounds me that anyone would make an issue of such things. Ironically – in my field – those union pressman jobs have largely all gone away. The work of putting pages together is now done by the writers – who are often also the editors now as well. As here! No worries about turf anymore.

    • Back in the day there was always talk of union workers sleeping it off in a back corner of the break room at Bethlehem Steel. Later when the company started shutting down the old Franklin Works they got paid to sit in a room. Not get retraining, or moved out to Burns Harbor… Just sit in a room and read the paper. Every one of them could have used that time to take retraining courses on their own, but no, they just sat in the room all day.

      Then they bitched about getting laid off “without warning.”

      • My stepdad was a union ironworker who worked on a plant maintenance project at a steel mill in Pittsburgh. His job involved structural repairs to the rolling mill and electric furnace buildings. When he asked why idled welders who worked at the mill weren’t given the chance to do that job, he was told, “That’s against the work rules: the steelworkers can’t do plant maintenance. That’s for the laborers and ironworkers.”

        The final straw was when one of the employees who worked in the rolling mill, who was a heavy drinker, showed up to work drunk. The previous foreman sent him to the break room until he sobered up—but let him clock in and out so he would get paid for the day—even though he did little to no work.

        Then, a new foreman came on the job and told him, “I can’t have you showing up to work drunk. If you show up to work drunk again, you’re fired.” Sure enough, that guy showed up the next day drunk as a skunk. The foreman told him, “I told you yesterday that if you showed up to work drunk again, you’re fired. You’re fired now.” The drunk guy then punched the foreman.

        The drunk guy ended up getting his job back—here’s why. The union work rules stated that for any safety violations, the first violation was to be addressed by a verbal warning, the second violation by a written warning, and the third by dismissal. The drunk guy went to the union representative, and when he told him what happened, it turned out that the foreman failed to provide a written warning and instead went right to firing the drunk guy, so he failed to follow the proper procedures, and so the drunk guy was reinstated.

        Not long after that, the foreman quit. And about a year after that incident, the mill was closed and torn down.

        • The union treating drunkeness as a safety violation and HR going along with it was the problem. Unable to perform duties wasn’t considered, because that would have required the foreman to put the drunk on the line, and everyone knew what would happen.

          This is why drug tests were added to the list of things employers could do to you. Today, the guy shows up three sheets to the wind, foreman drives him to the testing center and makes him piss in a cup. Done.

          That said, if the reason the guy was showing up drunk was becasuse he is a ligitmate alcoholic, I’m all for getting them into treatment before termination. But knowing western Pennsylvania as I do, my guess is the only reason he showed up drunk was for spite.

          • Yeah, from what I recall, the guy showed up drunk was most likely for spite. He didn’t take too kindly to someone who wasn’t going to let him get paid for showing up to work drunk and sitting in the break room, kinda like the “rubber rooms” they have or used to have for teachers accused of misconduct in New York.
            Basically, the union went to bat for their members even when they obviously did wrong.
            Also from what I recall, the drunk guy wasn’t thought to have a problem because he somehow managed to have work and he didn’t technically get in trouble with the law. That was when the idea of having a drinking problem meant lying in the gutter reeking of booze.

  11. Electric cars require less labor to produce for the same reason that they’re less expensive to maintain because an electric motor is far simpler than an internal combustion engine, and as EVs approach the economies of scale of ICEVs, their price is falling as we’d expect in a relatively free market. A Tesla Model 3 now starts at $40k, and I paid $22k for my 2020 Bolt with 8.3k miles two weeks ago.

    Charging at home, I’m paying 20% of the cost of gasoline to fuel the car. That’s not a theoretical claim. It’s my personal experience, and though Chevrolet (and the EPA) claims that I’ll get 260 miles of range with this vehicle, I’m getting over 300 miles in routine driving involving few long stretches of highway driving. I’ll experience long-distance driving soon enough, but again, I’m doing far better than Chevrolet advertises in routine driving, and I’d be saving a fortune, compared with an ICEV, even if I weren’t. That’s based on my personal experience over the last two weeks. Don’t bother telling me that your theory trumps my observation. I don’t believe it.

    Even at DC fast chargers, which I’ve used once only to verify that my car works with them as expected, the cost of charging is significantly less than gasoline though not nearly as cheap as charging at home which also happens to be far more convenient. I don’t wait half an hour to add 100 miles of range, as I did at the DCFC in Athens, GA. I spend a few seconds plugging in before I walk in the door, and I’m fully charged by the time I walk out door.

    But fewer labor hours to produce an EV (which seems a decided advantage to me) is not the problem that UAW workers need most to fear. Within a decade, I expect cars to drive themselves well enough to enable many, even most people, to pay less for transportation by subscribing to a robotaxi service than they pay now to own a car. At that point, the number of cars could easily fall by half or more because many, even most, people will not own a car. They’ll share a car with half a dozen other people, and their cost will be lower because they won’t pay an Uber driver to drive the shared car. A robotaxi need not be electric, but they wlll be because robotaxi services will use the least costly vehicles, and EVs like the Bolt are already less costly, over their lifetime, without any tax credit, than a comparable ICEV. Climate hysteria has nothing to do with it.

    Why would I not welcome this technological progress? I’m not a UAW worker. I want to spend less on transportation, not to spend more so that UAW workers can earn more than I do producing cars that cost me more than necessary.

    • Come back and share your experiences with the vehicle this winter.

      The host and most of the regulars here have open minds but a lot of experience and knowledge as well.

    • Hi Martin,

      EVs are only “lower-maintenance” in some ways, such as not needing oil and filter changes. However, they do need battery changes – and the cost of that dwarfs routine maintenance costs such as oil and filter changes. If you regularly heavily discharge and “fast” charge an EV, the battery will likely suffer a significant decline in its ability to retain a full charge before it is ten years old. This is potentially catastrophic on two levels. First – for you, the owner – who will be faced with the prospect of needing to put a sum equivalent to a third to half the new cost of the EV into an old EV in order to have a functionally viable vehicle. Two – also for the owner – is the depreciation hit you’ll take when you have title to an EV that needs a new battery. Heads I win, tails you lose.

      The 2023 Tesla 3’s base price is about $40,000 . . . for the model with a pathetic best-case range of 272 miles – equivalent to about a half of tank of gas capacity relative to an equivalent non-electric car. And it’s functionally less than 272 miles because it’s risky to run an EV down to “empty” – because of the time it takes to put energy back into its battery. Leaving a 20-30 mile reserve/buffer is necessary unless you know – for sure – you will make it to where you can charge and have time to charge and that the charger is open/working. No such issues with vehicles that aren’t battery-powered devices.

      If you want more range (358 miles, maybe) the price is just shy of $48k. And Teslas are subsidized by the government – and by Tesla, which can under-sell them only because of inflated company valuation that is a function of government mandates that are forcing these things onto the “market.”

      Meanwhile, for about $24k – a little more than half as much as the “long range” Tesla 3 – you can buy a Honda Civic Hatchback that is about the same size and functionally superior in every way other than how quickly it can get to 60. It can’t do that in 4 seconds. But it can go almost 500 highway miles on 12 gallons of gas – and you can refill its tank to full (not 80 percent) in about three minutes as opposed to waiting 30 for 80 at a “fast” charger.

      I understand that – for you, in your circumstances – a Bolt “works.”

      But a $15k Mitsubishi Mirage is how you save money on a car. Not a costs-twice-as-much Bolt.

      Also: If you can’t see that EeeeeeVeeees are intended to be the vehicles for throttling mobility, you’re in the same camp as people who thought “masks” would not lead to “vaccines.”

      • I expect to reach 200k miles without needing a battery change because I’ll fast charge very rarely, I’ll never discharge to zero, and I’ll only charge to 100% when preparing for long trips that I take infrequently. Ordinarily, I’ll set the vehicle to stop charging at 80% which is a lot more than I need for day-to-day driving. Level 2 charging to 80% stresses the battery very little, and using it this way is no inconvenience at all.

        Even so, I may lose 10-20% of the battery’s range over that period, but it’s not a big deal because 200 miles of range is plenty for me. Even with that range, I can drive the 250 miles to my folks in NC with one 30-minute stop, and that’s just not a big inconvenience for me. It’s well worth the $1200 per year I’ll save on fuel, more like $1500 on fuel and maintenance.

        I don’t agree that 272 miles is a pathetic range. It’s 12 miles more than my Bolt. My 2010 Mazda 3 has a 14.5 gallon tank, so it has 406 miles of EPA estimated range (combined), but for city driving, the range is 362 miles based on the EPA estimate, and that range ignores air conditioning which costs a lot of range for both ICEVs and EVs. In my first 400 miles of mostly city driving with the Bolt, I’ve averaged 4.6 miles/kWh in the hottest part of the year often running the AC. That’s considerably better than the EPA estimated range for a Bolt because the estimate is based on combined city/highway driving. EVs do much better in city driving than in highway driving while ICEVs are the opposite. With no AC, I get more like 5 miles/kWh.

        That’s over 300 miles of range and not very different from the Mazda, not that it matters because I practically never drive 300 miles in a day, and I can recharge overnight in my garage for three cents per mile, compared to 14.4 cents per mile to fuel the Mazda with gasoline. That’s not a theory either. I’ve already done it several times.

        It’s risky to run any vehicle down to empty. I haven’t run out of gas in decades because I never get anywhere near an empty tank.

        I paid $22k for my 2020 Bolt with 8300 miles, $18k counting the tax credit, and I’ll save over a grand a year compared with the cost of gasoline every year I drive it, never mind the maintenance, so $24k for a Civic doesn’t sound like a bargain to me. You drive what you like. I’ve driven a very similar Mazda for thirteen years, and I don’t agree that it’s superior in every way. It was a great car, and I still love it, but it’s not superior in every way to the Bolt, not based on my initial experience anyway.

        I wait 30 for 100 at a fast charger because a Bolt charges no faster than 50 kW. That’s not theoretical either because I tested the theory a few days ago. I didn’t need to fast charge, but I stopped at a fast charger in Athens to test fast charging because I didn’t want to test it on my first trip to my sister’s house in NC. I got the expected 100 miles of range in less than thirty minutes, and that’s all I need.

        I don’t even need to charge to 100% to make the 250-mile trip with one thirty-minute stop. I can start at 80% and easily make it. I stop after a hundred miles in Greenville, SC. Greenville has several level 3, CCS charging stations, and I can see on plugshare.com that people used the charges in the last few days, so I know they’re working. I can even see when they’re in use in real-time with my phone. Try that with a gasoline pump.

        Of course, I don’t need this technology with gasoline pumps because they’re far more ubiquitous, but the technology eliminates any range anxiety I might have had, and the number of charging stations increases every year.

        A Tesla can charge at 150 kW, so it can add 300 miles in 30 minutes or a hundred miles in 10 minutes. The Model 3 standard range does even better because it’s more efficient than a Bolt and gets more range with a smaller battery.

        Battery technology is improving rapidly, but it’s already over a threshold that meets my needs. I don’t need 500 miles of range or even 300 in either an EV or an ICEV, and I don’t need to add a hundred miles of range in less than thirty minutes. Your needs may vary, and that’s fine. You live your life, and I’ll live mine.

        Yes, the Bolt works well for me. No scare quotes are required. My mobility is not throttled at all, and I’m not in the same “camp” with anyone who doesn’t drive an EeeeVeee for the same reasons that I drive one. You can think in terms of these simplistic, political categories if you want. I don’t.

        • Wow, all of Eric’s experiences reviewing EV’s must be fraudulent according to your experience. I think you are so “full of shit it comes out your ears” a quote from a friend of mine from junior high school. I am calling you a liar.

        • Martin Brock the EV shill. Give us a break.

          All that thought and effort has to be dedicated to you charging and driving a car? Sounds like a part-time job. Good grief.

          You know what I do with my ICE car? I pull into a gas station, fill up in 5 minutes and drive on with about 400 miles of range. I don’t think about it again until my fuel light comes on about 2 weeks later and then I pull into another gas station and do it again.

          If I drive long distance, I fill up, drive 350 miles until my fuel light comes on, pull into a gas station for 5 minutes and get another 400 miles of range. Rinse and repeat.

          Beat that with your fictitious EV that gets 300 miles of range on a 260 mile battery that will reach 200k miles without needing a battery change. By the way, don’t park/charge it in your garage as it might set your house on fire.

        • Martin writes:

          “You can think in terms of these simplistic, political categories if you want. I don’t.”

          You have an interesting habit of resorting to sneering, condescending insults in response to facts I’ve stated about EVs. You also seem to be indifferent to the fact that EVs are not a market-driven phenomenon but rather a government-pushed “solution” to a “problem” that does not exist. You also seem unable to understand the implications of this. If you accept that EVs are “necessary” to staunch “carbon emissions,” then you have accepted much more than just the “necessity” for EVs (and for forcing alternatives to them off the market.

          You characterize this as “simplistic” – and yet, it’s logical as well as exactly what the people pushing EVs are now saying quite openly.

          And you’ve literally bought into it.

          • I responded to “Also: If you can’t see that EeeeeeVeeees are intended to be the vehicles for throttling mobility, you’re in the same camp as people who thought “masks” would not lead to “vaccines.”” You’re apparently blind to your own sneering, condescending insults, not to mention the insults of your followers.

            My choice of an EV is entirely market-driven. I’m not generalizing beyond my own choice of my own EV. Governments push all sorts of things. They’ve pushed home ownership with a mortgage interest deduction for as long as I’ve been alive, and I’ll wager that most people in this forum, including you, have taken the deduction. I also oppose it in principle, but I’ve taken it too, and why wouldn’t I? I don’t let the state dictate my choices, but I’ll take a tax break for something I would have done anyway.

            I don’t accept that EVs are necessary to stem carbon emissions. I’ve made this point over and over again, and you’ll ignore it the next time I make it too.

            No. I haven’t bought into anything. I was disputing climate change hysteria in the nineties. Pretending that I must belong to this religion because I drive an EV is simplistic. You can’t distinguish me from this broad category of people in your head even when I agree with you repeatedly.

            • Martin writes:

              “My choice of an EV is entirely market-driven.”

              Except for the fact that were it not for the government pushing EVs, there would be no (or very few) EVs on the market.

              You mention the mortgage interest deduction. Yes, it encourages home ownership. But it does not discourage renting. The whole purpose of EVs is to push people into them – and then, out of vehicles altogether. This is not my opinion. It is the stated goal.

              • Spending 50% more, or higher, for a vehicle that will only last half as long, and cost about the same to feed, is “market driven”?

                • Hi John,

                  Tell it to Martin!

                  Also, I forgot to tell him that his four-year-old EV is not the same as a four-year-old vehicle. The battery’s service life is already probably about half over. It will be interesting to see how much charge it holds four years hence.

                  Also, his Bolt is one of the fire-prone ones. Well, actually, they all are.

            • “You’re apparently blind to your own sneering, condescending insults, not to mention the insults of your followers.”

              The quote you’re referencing is exactly what happened. How is that a “condescending insult”?

        • Martin,

          You bought a nearly four-year-old EV, which means it is an EV with a nearly four year old battery. Would you buy any other electronic device that had a four-year-old battery, such as a used laptop or sail fawn? The difference being it might be worth spending a couple hundred bucks on a new battery for a laptop…

          • The Bolt appears to have been manufactured by LG (rather than GM itself). I’m not sure if they were even built by any union workers. I wonder if this supports your point about EVs being a threat to the UAW.

          • I had to turn in my last smartphone, which I held onto for 5 years, because its battery wasn’t able to hold much of a charge. And this was with my settings set to “optimize battery life.” The other reason is that all of the software updates actually made its performance worse.

            I can only imagine what the strain on an EV’s battery must be like. After all, it has to be out in the cold, the heat, the rain and snow, the humidity, and the bumps and jolts along the road.

            Speaking of EV batteries, has anyone noticed that they’re all proprietary, that is, there is NO common design for EV batteries or charging devices? If there was a common design for EV batteries, maybe they’d make some economic sense. But then, the whole EV thing is about controlling YOU, not the climate.

            • Hi Bryce,

              Yup!

              But – tell it to Martin. He “saves” all kinds of money driving a Bolt that cost thousands more than an otherwise similar subcompact economy car such as a Mitsu Mirage. And it’s so “convenient” to have to plug in every day for hours – and wait – as opposed to stopping, once, for less than five minutes…

              And they ask me why I drink.

      • Yes, I am. 260 miles is the EPA estimate based on combined city and highway driving, and it presumably doesn’t assume one-pedal driving which I started right away and prefer to conventional braking (which is the default on the Bolt). One-pedal driving engages regenerative braking as soon as I lift my foot from the accelerator, so I rarely touch the brake pedal. Since I don’t touch the brake pedal, I never brake more than regenerative braking provides, so I never wear my brake pads either.

        I drive the speed limit or five mph over it, maybe ten if I’m not paying attention. I had my share of speeding tickets when I was younger, but I’m over sixty now and know better. If driving like an old man is also better for my mileage, so much the better.

        Of course, I haven’t actually charged the battery to 100% and driven it until it’s completely out of charge. 300 miles is based on the miles I’m getting per kWh. I haven’t tested my Mazda’s range this way either. For comparison, I’m multiplying the EPA estimated mpg by the capacity of the gas tank.

        • Hi Martin,

          You’re right – in that it’s true that if you drive like an old man, rarely using the EV’s capability to accelerate quickly and rarely driving much faster than 60 or so MPH for any extended period of time – you can approach the EV’s advertised best-case range. But then, what is the point of the EV’s much-touted capability to accelerate rapidly?

          And in that case, the sensible thing to do would be to buy something like a $15k Mitsubishi Mirage. It is not quick, but it is inexpensive – about half the new cost of a Bolt. You could buy a lightly used Mirage for $10k or so. And – unlike your used Bolt – its gas tank will still hold a full tank ten years from now.

          Also: If you have to drive your Bolt in the cold – and use the heat (and the other accessories) you will notice a significant decline in the vehicle’s range. This is not my opinion. It’s a physical fact. Batteries are less efficient the colder it gets. You may not see this effect as much given where you live – but nonetheless.

          • I experience the EV’s best-case range.

            The instant torque and acceleration are valuable in specific scenarios like making a left turn or entering an interstate. I value it in these scenarios.

            But I wouldn’t have the instant torque in the specific scenario where it’s valuable, and I wouldn’t save over a thousand dollars a year and enjoy the convenience of charging at home with the Mirage. Over the life of the vehicle, the Bolt costs less, and I’ve made this point repeatedly, and you ignore it as often as I make it.

            Again, I’ll hardly ever drive the car in freezing weather, but I will use the heat, and I will see a drop in range when I do, and it won’t be a problem because I could easily live with 200 miles of range anyway.

            Right. I won’t much see the effect where I live. I’m not telling anyone in Maine to drive an EV. I’m not telling anyone who lives in an apartment to drive an EV. I’m not telling anyone who needs a pickup truck or a large SUV to drive an EV. I’ve made these points over and over and over again, but you can only bicker with the straw man in your head. That’s why discussing the issue here is a waste of time.

            • Which I was just thinking about. Why is MB spending so much time and effort promoting and defending EVs? From a position of being a rare and exclusive example of the perfect EV environment.

            • Martin,

              But your “saving over a thousand dollars a year” came at the cost of spending thousands more on an EV!

              Have you factored in how much you will lose as your EV depreciates? How about how much more it will cost you to insure the thing?

              And as far as “.. the convenience of charging at home,” opinions vary. I do not and never will understand how it is “convenient” to have to wait for hours every day to do what could otherwise be done in just a few minutes once a week or so. Nor having to deal with plugging in – and unplugging – every time you arrive and depart. Yes, I know – it’s just a moment. But moments add up to time – and inconvenience. When I get home, I just park. And when I need to go, I just do. No futzing around with a cord.

              But that’s your choice, of course.

              And: The fact that EVs aren’t market-driven and are being used as the vehicle to get most people out of vehicles isn’t a “straw man,” nor is it “in my head.” It is a fact. Just the same as it wasn’t just a “mask.”

              Which I’m guessing you wore, too.

              • Never mind! When you’re a shill:

                “You got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
                E-lim-i-nate the negative
                And latch on to the affirmative
                Don’t mess with Mr. In-between
                You got to spread joy up to the maximum
                Bring gloom down to the minimum
                And have faith, or pandemonium
                Liable to walk upon the scene. . .”

                -ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE ~ Johnny Mercer & The Pied Pipers (1945)

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jdbFOidds

              • Martin doesn’t say how much he pays for his electricity; all the EV fanbois skip that factoid. It may be cheaper than gas, for now, but it definitely isn’t free.

                • Hi Mike,

                  Yup. It’s also not cheap, either. You and others here may recall last December I had three EeeeeeeeeVeeees back-to-back to test drive. My power bill for that month more than doubled. Now, the amount of the doubling wasn’t quite as much as it would have cost me to gas up equivalent non-EVs. But the difference was perhaps 30 percent – which, when factored against the cost of the EeeeeeeeVeeeee itself is “savings” in the way that “vaccines” are “safe and effective.”

            • Martin Brock: You protest (often crying victim to mistreatment) and extol ad nauseum the very limited virtues of EVs way too much, while ignoring, minimizing or trying to explain away the increasingly obvious disadvantages. All of it appears to be scripted talking points.

              You’ve now dedicated nearly 2800 words (the equivalent of about 9 double-spaces pages) to comments about a silly (recalled and discontinued) Chevy Bolt on a website where you have expressed the dislike of the “insulting” author or his “insulting followers.” I don’t believe you to be anything other than a professional EV shill.

    • Technological progress. Lifestyle reduction. I can think of no fate worse then depending on a “robotaxi”. How in the world is that going to work in the semi rural area where I live and have to drive everywhere? What happens when I need to run up to the store for a part to fix the faucet? When I want to get ice cream with the kids? When I just want to take a drive around the lake?

      I’ve used Uber and taxi’s on vacation, and it’s a pain in the butt. That scenario seems like a nightmare to me. I think a lot of people will agree and fight it tooth and nail.

      • My lifestyle is not reduced. You do you. I used Ubers a lot on a European vacation earlier this year, and the experience was usually good, but they were expensive. I spent two weeks touring several cities in Spain, France and Germany, and I didn’t have a rental car.

        You don’t need to fight me for anything. If you don’t want to use Ubers or robotaxis, don’t use them. I don’t want anything forced on you.

        Robotaxis are theoretical at this point, so I won’t paint some pie-in-the-sky picture of how great they’ll be, but when and if they become ubiquitous, expecting one to arrive five minutes after you hail it with your phone seems very reasonable even in a semirural area. I live in a semi-rural subdivision, and every house in the subdivision has at least one car in the driveway, and these cars are idle 95% of the time, even during the day.

        If only a fifth of these cars were robotaxis, one would never be far away. The subdivision could have ten robotaxis dedicated to it, and the number of taxis would still be a small fraction of the number of cars we have now, and the cost per resident could easily be lower.

        This technology is easier to realize than it is to imagine, but it’s not hard to imagine. The transportation we take for granted today didn’t materialize overnight either. My point is that fully self-driving cars could appear long before most cars on the road are EVs, if they ever are, and if they do, they could have a much greater impact on ICEV workers even if the robotaxis are ICEVs.

        Tesla doesn’t care because few Tesla’s exist at this point. If many people subscribe to a robotaxi service rather than owning a vehicle, Tesla still wins because selling even a tenth of the number of cars now individually owned is still a huge increase in sales for Tesla. For Ford and GM, it’s a catastrophic loss of sales.

        Of course, ICEVs were also catastrophic for wagon wheel makers. I’m glad that all of the wagon wheel makers lost their jobs.

        • I appreciate that you would not want to force the situation on others unfortunately it seems like that may be the case. The EV crowd is not doing it to increase efficiency but to rid the world of ICE’s. I see that as a problem because the infrastructure for swapping EV for ICE doesn’t exist and may never.

          You also are thinking that AI will advance to the point of large scale “robotaxi’s” becoming possible. I’m an engineer and read a lot on this subject and there are a lot of AI people that have become very skeptical of it ever being possible.

          • It’s not the case now, and I doubt that new ICEV bans will go into effect in 2035 either. Maybe they will, but a decade is a long time in political terms. The threat of bans could provoke a political reaction leading to their repeal. The bans are only at the state level, and the tax credits are already set to phase out starting next year. Many EVs built outside of the U.S. don’t qualify for them now. I definitely expect the bans to be repealed if EV prices don’t fall further, but I also expect the prices to fall further. Peters says in this article that building an EV requires less labor. When economies of scale are similar, EVs can cost less to manufacture than ICEVs except only for the battery, and battery prices are falling rapidly as well.

            There is no monolithic EV crowd. People drive EVs for many different reasons. Certainly, the political activists hysterical about climate catastrophe are among the EV proponents, but most people driving an EV are not political activists. Some people just like being early adopters of new technology, and more and more people see a cost advantage, especially for small cars with relatively small batteries. I’ve always been a climate catastrophe “denier”. I was a denier decades ago.

            If the infrastructure for wider EV adoption doesn’t materialize, then the wider adoption won’t materialize either, but I don’t see any fundamental barriers to creating the infrastructure. Doubling the energy on the grid over a decade or two is no big deal. It has increased eightfold since the sixties, and it will double again over the next decade or two with or without greater EV adoption. Quadrupling the number of charging stations isn’t a big deal either, and charging stations will never be as ubiquitous as gasoline stations because EV owners charge at home over eighty percent of the time.

            I don’t expect robotaxis (Musk’s term for them) in the next few years, but they seem possible in the next decade. Driverless taxis with limited routes already exist in Phoenix and San Francisco. They’re far from perfect, but I don’t expect perfection. Cars generally were far from perfect a century ago, and they’re still far from perfect. I certainly wouldn’t say that it’ll never be possible.

            • Hi Martin,

              There is no ICE ban, per se, at the federal yet. But there is a de facto ban. It is the CAFE regs that mandate all vehicles average 50-plus MPG by 2030. Very few vehicles can do this. Including even partially electric vehicles (i.e., hybrids). The regs serve to effectively outlaw everything that isn’t, by making them too expensive for most people to be able to buy. The effect of these regs is already apparent. They are are why six cylinder engines have all-but-disappeared from mass-market cars and are now expensive options even in high-end cars such as the current Benz E and BMW 5 series. It is why so many cars – regardless of make/model – have absurdly tiny 2.0 liter (or smaller) engines. The whole point being to out-regulate engines altogether.

              The only way “infrastructure” will “materialize” is via massive government spending. There is no natural market demand for this “infrastructure.” So what we have here is government pushing EVs – via mandates – onto a the “market” and then mulcting the people to build the “infrastructure” to support the EVs being pushed onto the “market.”

              It’s all very Soviet, isn’t it?

          • Hi Tom,

            I hope to God that AI never develops to the “robo taxi” point, It will be time for me to head for The Woods, then. I am not built to live in a world of drones tapping dey sail fawns and waiting for rides to be taken to where they are allowed to go. All Diapered Up, too.

        • Hi Martin,

          You write (as many EV advocates have):

          “Of course, ICEVs were also catastrophic for wagon wheel makers. I’m glad that all of the wagon wheel makers lost their jobs.”

          This is a fatuity. Horses and wagons went away because cars – with engines – offered more range and less hassle. And without government involvement. Cars with engines also ended the early electric cars, too – for the same reasons.

          Now the government is trying to end alternatives to the electric car.

          So you have put the cart ahead of the horse.

          • And the thing is, the wagon wheel makers didn’t lose their jobs, they started to build car wheels. Outside of adding better rubber tires, early car wheels weren’t all that much different from wagon wheels. Carriage builders founded or worked for companies like Fisher Body for example as well. High end carriage builders built bodies for high end makers like Duesenberg. They changed when the market changed. There is no market change for electric, if anything its the opposite, almost complete rejection of an clearly inferior thing.

      • Exactly, Tom –

        And the point (which Martin continues to miss) is that this isn’t organic or voluntary. It is unnatural – and being pushed. The goal – in their own words – is to dramatically reduce personal vehicle ownership and (by dint of that) herd people into a materially diminished life. They don’t want us driving – or flying (viz, the openly touted agenda to restrict air travel to once every so many years) or living in single family homes. They want us in “15 minute cities,” where we’re allowed to avail ourselves of “transportation,” provided we are obedient.

        Martin doesn’t see this. Or rather, doesn’t want to see it.

    • You bought was is effectively a four year old car with only 8300 miles on it? The average mileage in Georgia is over 18,000. If that were an ICE car it would hardly be broken in. If you think you’re going to get 200k on it, think again. At the current rate, even if you allow for only 3 years of driving, not 4, the car will be over 70 years old.

      In a later post you talk about how the bans on ICE vehicles in 2035 will probably be repealed. Then shortly thereafter you said how you didn’t want to force anything on anyone.

      I’m curious as to how you are employed with that level of innumeracy and cognitive dissonance going on inside your head.

  12. Most people are unaware that “right-to-work” legislation does not invalidate any union contract beyond the abolition of the “union security clause” which mandates “forced” union membership as a condition of employment and absolves the employer from liability for following this union “mandate”.
    Every other part of the union contract (collective bargaining agreement) remains in force.

    Unions criticize those who choose not to join (in right-to-work states), but when the National Labor Relations Board attempted to absolve unions of the requirement to represent non-members, the unions fought that decision successfully. You see, numbers DO matter.

  13. I was hired by a major firm to maintain complex electrical and electronic systems. Within 6 months, my employer was able to eliminate the use of contractors. I had brought the repair operations “in-house” thereby saving my employer a considerable amount of money.
    My employer decided to reward me with a substantial “raise”. All went well until my “union” (which I was FORCED to belong to) found out about it. My “union’s” position was “if he gets a raise, everyone else in the bargaining unit must get a raise”. My “raise” was promptly rescinded. Efforts by my employer to create another “bargaining unit” job classification was met with hostility by my “union”. Here I am, FORCED to pay “union dues”, to a “union” that is keeping me down.
    It took TWO YEARS, upon the expiration and renegotiation of the “contract” , for me to get my “raise”.
    I have NO USE for unions and can stand on my own two feet to get ahead.
    P. S. I know about the “Beck” decision…most unions make it extremely difficult to utilize it…

  14. What a bunch of rum dumbs. I’m sorry, but I don’t have patience for their myopic stupidity when it comes to their own industry, their own jobs. Unions have long been run by a bunch of ideological leftists and donors to the Democrat party.

    The people at the top don’t care if they have a million members or 50,000. They all draw the same pension, salary or whatever because union dues aren’t the source of their paycheck. They get secret money from their devil masters in government, corporations and wherever. So they whip the rubes into a frenzy and those rum dumbs go on striiiiike for the camera. The ones that show themselves deserve to be run onto the street. The rest may be unwitting victims.

    It’s a mess and no one is going to clean it up.

  15. Electric vehicles in their present state are “not ready for prime time” and are being “pushed” on an unsuspecting, largely ignorant, gullible public by insane government edict.

    From a scientific and technical standpoint, today’s electric vehicles are “playthings for the rich”.

    From a political standpoint, the elites HATE the masses as the “elites” HATE the fact that today’s ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles allow the masses (us) to go where they (we) want, when they (we) want at any time with few, if little restrictions. Unrestricted mobility for the masses is something that the elites HATE. It’s about CONTROL. It’s ALWAYS about CONTROL.

    Let’s look at the technical side of electric vehicles vs. ICE vehicles. Range is a large factor in the desirability of ICE vehicles vs. today’s electric vehicles. One can fuel up an ICE vehicle in approximately five minutes and be on his way.

    Not so for electric vehicles. Quite often electric vehicle charging stations are few and far between, which contributes to “range anxiety”. The situation will improve as time goes on, but in today’s world, electric vehicles are impractical. For short hops and city driving, electric vehicles can be an ideal solution, but for extended “road trips” forget it.

    Electric vehicle batteries lose power even when the vehicle is not in use. Add to that, cold weather and the use of accessories (air conditioning, lights, etc) will reduce range considerably. Electric vehicles may be somewhat suitable for a California climate, but will fail in sub-zero Michigan winter snow and ice.

    Batteries can be charged only to 80% of full capacity as overcharging will reduce battery life considerably. “Fast charging” is also detrimental to battery life. It’s all about time and convenience vs. battery life.

    Gasoline and diesel fuel has an large energy content (density) in a small package, something that, in their present stages of development, electrical vehicles cannot achieve.

    Let’s make a comparison…gasoline contains approximately 33.7 kwh per gallon. A gallon of gasoline weighs approximately 6.1 lbs. The typical ICE vehicle can hold about 15 gallons of gasoline with a weight of approximately 90 lbs. total, with a total energy content of approximately 500 kwh.

    Keep in mind that high-end electric vehicles have an energy capacity of approximately 120 kwh. This is equal to less than four gallons of gasoline. The typical electric vehicle has a 75 kwh battery pack, equivalent to approximately 2 ½ gallons of gasoline.

    Keep in mind that the battery pack weight is well over 2000 lbs (1 ton) and still has a limited energy capacity compared to gasoline. The typical electric vehicles weighs approximately 2 ½ tons (5000 lbs.), having to haul around a heavy battery pack. This also contributes to “wear and tear” on other automotive systems such as brakes and tires. (Yes, I am aware that regenerative braking exists and is a part of electric vehicle technology).

    From an environmental standpoint, lithium is nasty stuff, reacts with water violently and is much more volatile than gasoline. Electric vehicle accidents are much more hazardous than those of ICE vehicles. Water cannot be used to put out a lithium battery pack fire.

    Yes, gasoline is dangerous, but we have learned to control it and live with it for over 100 years successfully.

    Oil, being abiotic, and NOT a “fossil fuel” is a renewable resource, constantly being created by yet-unknown process within the earth.

    There may come a time with battery technology “breakthroughs” but just not now.

    Governments should never “push” unproven technologies.

  16. >Carbon having a dirtier mouth feel than carbon dioxide, you see. The illiterati hear it and the desired association is made;

    Now we all know there is more than one form of carbon.
    “White” carbon (diamonds) are forever.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwbEuzJCnqI
    Whereas “Black” carbon (graphite) is nasty, dirty stuff, and needs to be “cleaned up.”

    So carbon be rayciss, yo.
    And if you have ever been inside the coker unit of an oil refinery, you’ll know there is plenty of nasty Black carbon there, and nary a diamond in sight.

    • Except that graphite is actually more thermodynamically stable.

      So diamonds will last a very long time (far longer than any of us) but as time stretches out to infinity (“forever”) all of the diamonds will crumble to dust.

  17. I am of two minds on this whole union thing. Yes, unions are often wasteful and corrupt and engage in featherbedding. On the other hand, the corporations will fuck the workers over six ways to Sunday and pocket the difference. If the UAW line worker does not deserve a raise, then Mary Barra surely does not deserve $28 million.

    Beyond that the company will automate or offshore as much production as it can, thereby cutting American jobs. All of the Big Three have facilities in China and Mexico. All of the Big Three get government subsidies and/or bailouts. Frankly we do not have a truly free, capitalist market, we have a rigged market. You cannot blame the union for trying to get as big a piece of the action they can if the game is rigged anyway.

    One BIG problem that is often not talked about is that the union appears to be confrontational toward the company, but is often in collusion with this. The UAW has been running a scam for years now in which they allow the companies to hire “temporary” help for $16 an hour and then lay them off after six months and then re-hire them. In fact I recently saw an ad for a GM plant for $16. Yeah, fuck that.

    Because of all this the UAW is a shadow of its former self anyway. Whet do they have now, 150,000 members? I think it was 5 million in the 1950s.

    • I agree. I’ve worked in a union environment, and there’s no doubt that the unions are nothing but corporations in and of themselves and what goes on is just as corrupt and greedy as the companies they are supposedly against. In fact, I wonder if the unions and companies are in cahoots with each other. That said, we shouldn’t fall into the trap of pitting workers against one another. That’s what they want. They want you to resent the UPS drivers for getting 170k a year. They want you to think, how dare these auto workers think they should get 30 or 40 or whatever dollars an hour for low skill non college educated jobs. But, we should be applauding these guys, and demanding that we all make a living wage. It’s unconscionable that the Walton family is worth 800 billion dollars while their employees are on food stamps. It’s unconscionable that Jeff Bezos is worth 200 billion while his employees can barely survive. Your fellow worker, union or not, isn’t the enemy. If he can figure out how to get a bigger piece of the pie, good for him! Corporate America is the real enemy. Everyone who puts in an honest days work for 40 hours a week ought to be able to pay the rent and put food on the table. Don’t fall for the trap that corporate America has set, which is to pit us against each other. My fellow worker is not my enemy, even if he’s making a lot more money than me. The goal should be for all of us to make a living wage. Corporate America, government, Wall Street, banks, that’s our enemy, not the guy who found a way to get his fair share.

      • I don’t think it’s corporate America specifically, it’s government twisting the free market for those that buy it off. If government didn’t control the market then corporations couldn’t screw working people.

  18. ‘the old grifter behind the TelePrompter says they ought to “share” their “record profits” with the workers.’ — eric

    You may know that you are living in a Soviet-style command economy when the ‘president’ and his minions not only dictate what is produced (more EeeVees, fewer ICEs), but also deign to decide how profits should be distributed. Even more egregiously, ‘Biden’ has openly taken sides in a workplace dispute.

    From time to time, Clowngress passes ‘windfall profits’ taxes, usually to punish Big Oil (Black Molecules Matter, as it were). The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 gave the National Labor Relations Board a role in labor-management conflicts, but it’s supposed to at least preserve the appearance of neutrality.

    Now under the decadent ‘Biden’ regime, we see the senile, shrunken little homunculus behind the pulled-back curtain, openly imposing his cabal’s whims on vast sectors of the economy. The Constitution and statute law have vanished in the rearview mirror; we’re talking caudillo cowboy here — the casual l’etat, c’est moi of the Sun King rampant.

    Indeed we’ve reached such a piquant pitch of insanity that one expects every day to awaken and learn that a city has been nuked; a judge or senator assassinated by the FBI; an industry nationalized by decree — or all three together, in a crackpot trifecta of riot, rot and ruin.

    Nobody said a Fourth Turning was gonna be a frickin’ cakewalk. 🙁

    • Jim H: You may know that you are living in a Soviet-style command economy when the ‘president’ and his minions not only dictate what is produced (more EeeVees, fewer ICEs), but also deign to decide how profits should be distributed.

      Nope. I don’t think the Soviets were ever that stupid. Heck even the Mafia is not that stupid. Both the smarter Soviet’s and the Mafia know the more money the workers make the richer the top can be.

      This is a cabal of idealists that never worked a blue collar job in their lives that treat the workers like dirt because they can. The only question is why do they think this will work even though it’s becoming obvious it won’t. Serfdom?

  19. Cut EV’s from any Cartel subsidy and let the customers decide. The Cartel needs to get out of the business of running businesses.

    The Cartel needs to stop printing (borrowing) currency. Most goes to the war monger corporations.

    Welfare programs that gives out money to those that are non producers and pay little in the way of taxes need to be drastically reduced.

    Many of the alphabet agencies like the Dept of Education needs dissolved. Dept of Homeland Security needs to be broken up with many of its individual components dissolved. The Cartel needs to bring home the military. The country no longer has the resources to pay for it nor the production to back it up.

    Tucker Carlson interviewed the lead individual,,, Javier Milei,,, in the Argentine presidential race. He had many good ideas. Basically to reduce the governments footprint. A hundred years ago Argentina was a wealthy booming nation until they went fascist/socialist. They devolved to third world status and remains so today. This is America’s destination unless America convinces Russia to destroy it as it now seems hell bent on doing.

    • ‘Tucker Carlson interviewed the lead individual,,, Javier Milei,,, in the Argentine presidential race.’ — ken

      When I visited one of those gray-market cambios nearly 20 years ago, I handed them a fresh Franklin. They handed me back three 100-peso bills.

      Whereas when Tucker Carlson was escorted into a cueva last week, he handed them a 100-dollah bill … and received multiple packets of 2,000-peso bills, in their totality as thick as a brick.

      Official theft by Argentina’s central bank makes prices burn and cauldron bubble, as the digits spin like the tenths display on a gas pump. Socialism’s ghastly Peronist mutation has held sway for three generations, through countless currency replacements and redenominations.

      Maybe, finally, the brainwashed masses chanting ¡Evita! and ¡Kristina! have finally had their fill of inflationary impoverishment, as their empty stomachs heave and rumble.

      Argentina actually has fairly reliable, honest and prompt vote tabulation. So unlike in “Biden’s” Third World gangster regime, la gente desafortunada could actually vote themselves a new leader next month. Red, white ‘n bluuuuuue Americanos can only gaze in impotent envy, our noses pressed fecklessly to the bulletproof glass of democracy’s locked storefront.

  20. Thinking this is all rather irrelevant. Unions are an archaic form of organizing labor. The scheduled population die off in white countries, will Cohen-cide with most jobs going away/ being replaced by robots/AI. This is the path the Garbage Elite have chosen. Their will will be done. The best you can do is either embrace the suck, and all it entails, or prepare yourself to live 1920s style far away from their digital Gulag.

  21. @Eric – I noticed Brie was shilling empowerment through the Nissan Z instead of an EV in new commercials airing during one of the college football games yesterday afternoon.

  22. You have to wonder if government mandates on the auto industry is a ruse to destroy the auto industry. Stack up the mandates until building a car is impossible, and the coup de grace is EV.

    All across the nation trains are coming off the tracks, rail cars spilling toxic materials, factories catching on fire, food storage facilities leveled.

    Amerika is under attack by the Neo-Bolsheviks (aka Leftists/Jews/Commies). Black Lives Matter rioters are not prosecuted (even if they torch a police station) while white nationalists are given record prison time for minor things.

    Indeed, Trump is being railroaded into prison.

    Biden is no friend – he is obviously a Rothschild agent, along with Antony Blinken – and the Ukraine war is proof – which is looking more like a staged genocide than a real war. Dictator Ziolensky is closing the Christian churches while the Jew media repeats the mantra of Ukraine Democracy.

    There is no Democracy in Ukraine, it is a Jewish totalitarian regime sending every able body to the front line for execution. It is unconsciousable for any decent human being to support that war – yet all across Amerika the blue and yellow flags fly.

    ——————–

    And the current PM of Israel said this about Amerika:

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/10/28/finks-bar-the-shocking-truth-about-bibi-trump-and-why-covid-will-kill-6-million-americans/

    Bibi and Fink’s Bar (1990)

    “In 1990, after returning to Israel and after being Israel’s UN ambassador in New York, and before the First Gulf War, Bibi Netanyahu was in Jerusalem at Fink’s Bar – dining and drinking with high level U.S. Embassy staff and others.

    Bibi and his loyalist group at a Fink’s Bar private table in Jerusalem had just stolen five (5) NSA-developed KG-84A cryptographic devices in Golan Heights (with help from Canadians serving with the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization), giving Bibi, his loyalists and others real-time access to all U.S. State Department, U.S. Navy and NATO communications.

    This is what Bibi Netanyahu said while sitting at the head of that private table in Fink’s Bar (transcribed from a secretly recorded audio of Netanyahu at that meeting – words that few Americans, Israelis or others have seen or heard until today):

    “If we get caught, they will just replace us with persons of the same cloth. So, it does not matter what you do. America is a golden calf; and we will suck it dry, chop it up, and sell it off piece by piece until there is nothing left but the world’s biggest welfare state that we will create and control. Why? Because it is the will of God, and America is big enough to take the hit; so, we can do it again and again and again. This is what we do to countries that we hate. We destroy them very slowly and make them suffer for refusing to be our slaves.” [Confirmed by an “attendee” during a debriefing.]”

    —————-

    So there you have it, the PM of Israel said about the USA:

    “This is what we do to countries that we hate. We destroy them very slowly and make them suffer for refusing to be our slaves.”

    PS Netanyahu is also one of the architects of 911 – the worst terroristic attack in history. Yet when he comes to town, Clowngress gave him record standing ovations – more than any sitting president!

  23. GM’s CEO was a fine student and worked to pay for her education at General Motors Institute. She has never worked anywhere but GM and was educated by GM well after GM’s business was going downhill. She learned everything she knows via the GM culture that only prospered (more than 50 years ago) due to the boom after WW2 with little competition in a seller’s market for autos. I doubt Barra could have turned GM’s business around, but she’s never had any experience outside GM.
    I’m sure she believes she has earned the millions, but she’s has no clue of how to overcome the GM model of failure and that dooms the company. She deserves to lose it all and hopefully the strike will deliver that fate to her and to all who have contributed to GM’s inability to deliver what customers need and want.
    I remember the days when GM was a successful business.
    They made some products that I wanted to buy then. No longer.
    GM today is an extension of the evil empire in D.C.
    The sooner they both die the better.

    • Note also that Barra has made choices that make it obvious that she is a collaborator in the evil empire in exchange for wealth and power. She is not a victim of government meddling; she is a willing conspirator and looter.

  24. From the Veruca Salt wing of the UAW:

    I want a feast
    I want a a bean feast
    Cream buns and doughnuts and fruitcake with no nuts so good you could go nuts.
    No, now!
    I want a ball
    I want a party
    Pink macaroons and a million balloons and performing baboons and
    Give it to me now.
    I want the world,
    I want the whole world.
    I want to lock it all up in my pocket
    It’s my bar of chocolate
    Give it to me now!
    I want today
    I want tomorrow
    I want to wear them like braids in my hair and I don’t want to share them
    I want a party with roomfuls of laughter
    Ten thousand tons of ice cream
    And if I don’t get the things I am after
    I’m going to scream!
    I want the works,
    I want the whole works!
    Presents and prizes and sweets and surprises in all shapes and sizes,
    And now!
    Don’t care how I want it now!
    Don’t care how I want it now!

  25. This strike was inevitable and is probably being pushed by the Brandon regime. The “share your record profits” thing from Brandon and Bernie is rich. Shameless lies. Soviet style central planning doesn’t and can’t work, which is a feature not a bug, in this case. I think the destruction of the legacy automakers, at a minimum their ICE components, is part of the plan. The central planners want to get to the point where there is no longer a question of ICE vs. EV because the companies and/or people that made ICE vehicles are gone.

    It would be fascinating to hear the back and forth if Eric’s views on the issue were presented to union leaders as a strategy. We would probably find out quickly if the union folks are stupid or in on it somehow. I would bet on the latter.

  26. There used to be an old saying a few generations ago that summed up the American economy. The saying was “as GM goes, so goes the U.S. economy”. I’m not liking at all where the economy is going. The idiots in charge are going to make us look more like Cuba provided they don’t outlaw ICE vehicles being on the road altogether.

  27. I hate large corporations with a passion, but what the UAW is doing is beyond stupid. Honestly, if it were my business and someone demanded a 40% pay raise and then held up production to cease and destroy my business the alternative is easy. I would send notice that in 60 days their job would be eliminated. Push me further and I would shutter the whole business and open up a new one within 24 hours. Those that wanted to work would have a job, those that wanted to play childish games would not.

    This “strike” stuff is BS. If you are feeling taken advantage of then quit and work elsewhere. No one is forcing you to stay at a job.

    • I copy that, Raider Girl.

      I have no problem if some workers get together and decide to try and coerce their employer into giving them a raise or better working conditions. But if that employer wants to call their bluff and simply hire replacements, that shouldn’t be prohibited.

  28. Facing an extinction level event, and they have their panties in a wad over how much they can buy with their wages, until the extinction occurs?
    When news of a potential strike first surfaced, I was perplexed. FedGov is determined to force us out of our cars, and the UAW is looking for a wage increase? They should be thanking their lucky stars they still have a job, and focus more on keeping it. They would be better served by refusing to build EVs. Which of course would put them at odds with their favorite politicians, aka Democrats, who insist something can be made by destruction.

  29. One of the sad things is that the pay raise they are asking for may well be under the rate of inflation. If some of those CEO’s took a pay cut it might not help but at least it would be a sign, of what I can’t say but at least a sign of goodwill.

    If all vehicles were built here they probably would succeed in their demands; but now? The customer no longer cares; Japan, Korea, Mexico etc all build cars and if you need an affordable car they might be able to sell you one at a price you can afford to own.

    As Eric pointed out when your employer’s company insists on building products that the majority of your customers don’t want you better plan on losing your job when the company closes.

    The experts claim that we will be using Uber or a similar service in the future. The problem is that once you add up all your trips in one week they wind up exceeding the cost of owning your own car and all that entails.

    Fun times ahead.

    • Hi Landru,

      I have never met an employee who said he was paid too much nor I have met an employer who stated he paid too little. Wages is an issue where both parties will never find common ground. It is the highest cost incurred by most businesses and forces the inflation of goods to substantiate the higher cost of labor.

      Customers then complain that the products/services have become too expensive.

      Even moving jobs overseas does not reverse these costs, because the business knows what a customer is willing to pay and if someone is willing to pay $1200 for an IPhone the business isn’t going to sell it for $400. If the UAW receives their demands the average auto price will now start around $65k. Of course, the unions refuse to see they are only shortening the career path of their workers because the company will either transfer or shutter. Neither will be a benefit for any UAW member.

      • RG, you know better. Inflation is not caused by competition between employers and employees. It’s caused by fiat currency, and the fight between employers and employees is an attempt to counter the effect of that fiat currency inflation. Of course it won’t work, since the fiat currency remains. Which neither the employer, nor the employee has any control over. But FedGov does, and they like it inflating.

        • Do I agree that government spending causes the largest increases of inflation? Yes, but government spending is not the only reason. Look at the Carter Administration. Carter had one of the lowest increases of government spending (about $299 billion). Inflation still rose 25%. Did oil prices not play a part in this? How about greedy speculators or businesses with unsound practices?

          I don’t dispute fiat currency or the Fed causing inflation, especially in recent years, but the USA experienced inflation prior to the dissolution of the gold standard.

          • Inflation lags. The inflation of the ‘70s can be traced back to LBJ’s guns and butter spending in the mid-late 60s. He blew it out so bad Nixon (who spent a lot but maybe not quite as much) ended the last tether to gold in ‘71 and implemented wage and price controls in the early ‘70s. Those don’t work and eventually the big and continual increase in the money supply led to the price inflation that was seen in the late ‘70s. This has continued at a slower rate, until 2020, when it escalated at an unprecedented rate. People Blame Biden for inflation but the Orange Fail spent a lot of that money.

            The regime narratives of the oil prices and shortages due to Arab opposition to Israeli wars and U.S. support for them seem fishy to me today. I have seen anecdotal evidence of tankers full of oil sitting offshore or at docks during the era. But more concretely, as you know, in ‘71 the US went from the last trace of a gold standard (for foreigners only, like the Arabs) to pure fiat and essentially a petrodollar. I think part of the deal with the Arabs was that they would be compensated for their oil in many more of the now devalued dollars vs. pre-‘71. The inflationists could then blame them for causing the increase in prices, which was guaranteed. Win-win.

            Greedy speculators and their profits is another trope used by inflationists to hide the real cause of inflation. Mises.com Power and Market blog has a number of great articles on this. Here’s one:

            https://mises.org/wire/commodities-do-not-cause-inflation-money-printing-does

            From link:

            In this world of monetary insanity, defenders of central bank constant easing try every day to convince you that inflation is caused by numerous factors, not by currency printing.

            Many blame inflation on cost-push factors or even speculation, but ultimately all those are consequences, not causes. Rising prices are always caused by more units of currency being directed to scarce or tangible assets.

            More units of currency are going to scarce assets as investors look for protection against inflation. This is not speculation; it is protection from currency debasement.

          • Technically, inflation is a term that refers to expanding the money supply without expanding underlying production….the result is currency debasement. It is 100% caused by central bank actions….every time in history this phenomenon has occurred it has been the result of government or quasi government intervention in the market place. As a stark indication of the de-industrialization of the west, I recently noticed that even Festool, a very expensive German brand of tools, has off shored production of one of its new cordless tools to China….that’s a very bad precedent spurred by government interventions via absurd regulations in the market place of the west.

  30. Going on strike while new car prices are highly inflated and interest rates are running over 8% seems like the perfect way to lose your job.

    • Both inflated car prices and high interest rates are products of the Fed, and FedGov. But I agree, striking for higher wages is not the solution. Need to resist the trajectory, as I stated above, refuse to build EVs.

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