The No Cash Charge

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Why do you suppose you can’t pay cash to charge up an EV?

Many people don’t even know you can’t pay cash to charge up an EV. That you must put an app on your phone that’s used to charge your account. This means you must have your tracking device – whoops, your “smart” phone – with you wherever you go. If you go via EV. It means the system knows when, where and how much you’ve been charging.

There’s no legitimate reason for this.

The self-checkout machines at supermarkets take cash as well as charge – at least for now – and there’s no technical reason why an EV charger could not also accept cash. Yet none do.

Why is that?

Well, there are the reasons already mentioned. It is clear that part of the push to “electrify” personal transportation is a push to data mine personal information. There’s very little money in cash, you see. But data can be extremely profitable. It’s a big business – and you’re the product.

There are also more sinister reasons, of course. Because nothing the government does is ever benevolent.

It is hard to prevent someone who has cash from paying for things he needs; the government has no way of knowing whether you even have cash and never mind what you may have bought with it. The government does not like this anonymity – and neither do the corporations that have become even worse than government because the Bill of Rights  restrains corporations even less than it restrains the government. Both want to know every last detail of your financial life as well as your life, generally. They want to be able to quickly discover discrepancies – your spending vs. your income, for instance. So as to make sure – as far as the government is concerned – that you always pay every cent in taxes the government says you “owe.”

That latter business being just stupendous – in terms of its gall. No honest thief would tell you that you “owe” him money. Such insolent derangement is characteristic of government only.

Anyhow, it bothers the government that you can pay cash for gas because the transaction is outside the knowledge and so control of the government. The heavy-handed attempt to “lock down” the population during the authoritarian theatrical event styled “the pandemic” failed to lock down the population – in part because anyone who had a car (and gas) could drive pretty much wherever they needed to go. And that was easy enough to do because the government was not able to “lock down” cash transactions.

Envision what it would be like if the government – and the corporations that are becoming  indistinguishable from government – could finely control how much charge you are allowed to buy. Could prevent you from buying any charge at all – for any reason at all – by locking you out of your account.

The fact that this is easily done ought to bother you. But much more bothersome is the fact that is being done.

That it is already done.

There is no place in America where it is possible to pay cash to charge an EV. This neatly and deliberately bifurcates Americans who are “wired” – who don’t seem to mind – and Americans who, for sound reasons, do not wish to be “wired.” What seems likely to happen – what the end goal (one of them) seems to be – is to winnow out people who don’t have an EV. They will only be able to drive if gas is available – and if the price of gas remains affordable. Both of these “problems” are easily solved by government.

What then?

Well, you can only drive if you own an EV and only if you have the app that connects your digital wallet to the charge machine. The government deciding whether you’ll be allowed to drive by having the power to control whether (and how much) you can charge. When transportation is “electrified” – and cashless – it will be so much easier for the government to control movement by centralizing it without most people realizing it.

People see individually owned EVs and think nothing has fundamentally changed. You still have your car; it just happens to be a battery powered device. But all of this is illusory in that every single EV you see is literally tethered to a central control hub that controls the electricity (home solar charging in anything less than days requires a massive array at massive cost and so it’s off-the-table for most people).

And financially, via the cashless app that your have to use in order to buy the charge.

If it sounds sinister, that’s because it is. If it weren’t, these EV chargers would accept cash, so as to make it easier for people to pay for a charge and to encourage people who prefer to use cash to buy and drive an EV.

But that’s not the case. It is in fact the opposite case. And that’s why it’s sinister – unless you think it’s harmless and even benevolent to give government and corporations the power to micromanage our comings and goings.

. . .

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  1. Since you don’t know how much it will cost to partially recharge an EV there might be a lower bill than what you expect. If that is the case; how come you can’t tell them put $50 in at charger 6 and if its only $4o you get $10 back when you go back into the station? Or use a prepaid Visa card; but I’ve had problems with those in the past.

  2. May have to go wireless, cables keep getting cut:

    Four ports for $500k? Grifter Bros Contracting alive and well.

    From a Puget Sound Energy press release:
    “ The new station will be maintained by PSE and feature two DC fast-charging ports and two Level 2 charging ports that can charge almost any type of electric car, truck, or SUV. The station will be open 24/7 to all drivers, regardless of whether they are PSE customers.”

  3. EeeVees aren’t exactly flying off the showroom floor at GM:

    ‘GM said its first-quarter U.S. sales dropped 1.5% to 594,233 vehicles sold compared with the year-ago quarter. In total for the quarter GM sold 16,425 EVs compared with the first quarter last year when it sold 20,670 EVs, 19,700 of which were the Bolt and Bolt EUV.

    ‘GM started building the commercial version of the Silverado EV at Factory Zero last year and sold 1,061 in the first quarter; there is no year-ago comparison.

    ‘The initial models [of Chevrolet’s Equinox EV] will be heavily loaded with content [i.e., options] and start at $48,995 for a front-wheel drive version. The base model, starting at $34,995, is due out later in the year.

    ‘GM said dealers had 534,479 new vehicles in stock at the end of the quarter, which is a 63-day supply. In the year-ago period, GM dealers had 412,285 new vehicles in stock.’ —

    Same old, same old: soggy demand; flat sales; rising inventories; EeeVees moving at a trickle.

    It carries on like this until the bottom drops out. Meanwhile EeeVee Mary whistles past the graveyard.

    • And on a larger scale:

      ‘Sales of electric vehicles [by all auto makers] grew only 2.7% to just over 268,000 during the quarter, far below the 47% growth that fueled record sales and a 7.6% market share last year. The slowdown, led by Tesla, confirms automakers’ fears that they moved too quickly to pursue EV buyers. The EV share of total U.S. sales fell to 7.1% in the first quarter. — AP

      EeeVees on the back foot, LOSING market share.

      Kick ’em while they’re down! 🙂

  4. If you are already driving a device which is GPS enabled and capable of logging all your movement, plus how you drive, plus what you listen to, plus what you say, how does paying cash help?

    • If they would raise the gas tax by a full dollar, chances are they could drive a million people out of Commiefornia next year. Then they could pass an exit tax to raise even more dough. 🙂

      Lots of folks out West, they say, is leavin’ home every day
      Beatin’ the hot old dusty way to the California line
      ‘Cross the desert sands they roll, gettin’ out of that Commie hole
      They think they’re goin’ to a sugar bowl, but here’s what they find
      Now, the police at the port of exit say
      “You’re number fourteen thousand for today”

      Oh, if you ain’t got the do re mi, folks
      If you ain’t got the do re mi
      Why, you can’t get back to beautiful Texas
      Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee

      — Woody Guthrie, Do Re Mi

  5. No cash charge…

    Got to get the slaves into all virtual money and investments….on a server in the cloud somewhere…they say…haha…

    Can’t have slaves holding cash, gold, silver……

    When they have finished looting the place…maybe soon?….

    They will crash the whole financial system down on the slave’s heads….

    To prevent pushback they have a new tool….lockdowns….

    Any cracks yet?…..

  6. ‘Why do you suppose you can’t pay cash’ — eric

    In 1958, BankAmeriCard (now VISA) and the American Express card were introduced. Before then, department store credit cards existed. But most retailers accepted only cash.

    Now some merchants and even governmental services accept ONLY charge cards.

    See what they did there? Private banksters replaced ‘legal tender’ cash, available to all, with their fee-laden plastic currency which one must qualify and pay for.

    And it’s ‘all legal.’ 🙂

      • When we still had silver coins (pre-1965), gold was pegged at $35 an ounce. Tonight gold is at a record high of $2,284 an ounce.

        Gold didn’t change in purchasing power. Rather, counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes lost 98.5% of their value. Ultimately, counterfeit currency asymptotically approaches its intrinsic value: ZERO.

        When criminal counterfeiters usurp power [JFK assassinated by Lyndon Butthole Johnson, Nov 1963], anything goes and nothing matters. Do as thou wilt.

  7. I’m pretty sure you could almost bet your bippy, that EV chargers log the vehicles VIN upon charging connection, making that fact they’re not cashless – a moot point.

    If Tesla EV chargers need to know whether or not to monetarily charge their customers or allow them a free EV charge (based on being grandfather’d in, when Tesla once offered free lifetime charging, in order to stimulate sales), I’d assume that’s determined based on the cars VIN, which can identify the cars owner.

    And I’d assume all chargers, like a Charge Point, are logging EV cars the same way.

    Not to worry, EV’s won’t ever make it to Prime Time like they envision.

    • That’s probably a correct assumption. It probably captures all driving and usage data, as well as the data that the EV extracts from the owner’s connected phone. I think every business model now is built on capturing and selling your data.

    • Right. Since all these electric things have computers in them, why would you need to download an app to your phone?

      One day, I wouldn’t be surprised to find an extra port in the plug for a data connection, so all your driving and location info could be updated each time you charge.

      Your insurance rate, social credit score, and carbon footprint could all be updated at once.

  8. Nobody should have to drive to a charging station to charge the battery with more juice from the power plant, the car can drive itself and each charger can be robotically controlled.

    Why have such backward technology when the good stuff is here now?

    I won’t be driving electrified anytime soon, don’t care where the stations are.

    Nobody is going to try to steal your EV, they don’t want the hassle.

    It’ll get stopped, you will be locked inside until the end of time. har

    What about those national parks?

    Lake Louise in Canada trumps RMNP by a country mile. Been to both places, Lake Louise is by far and away the first choice.

    Tried to camp in a national park campground 20 years ago, was the last time.

    Too many idiots making a party out in the middle of a park is not my idea of camping overnight when traveling. The place is not your house and yard. A park ranger told them to shut ‘er down. Lesson learned, go to other places to camp. Campgrounds have breakfast ready when you get up in the morning.

    Recreation businesses in northern British Columbia will be the place to go. I’d go visit Mt. Robson long before visiting RMNP.

    Liard Hot Springs is a long ways away, but you’ll like it there for camping.

    One 14-teener to go to in Colorado is Mt. Antero.

  9. Seems to me it should be ILLEGAL to refuse to accept cash. The bills in my wallet state “This note is legal tender for ALL debts, public AND private.”

    Of course… nobody gives a damn about “the law” any more, it’s become a farce.

    • I don’t recall who told me (an economics instructor?) said if they refuse your cash, you can sue them. …Never looked into further.

      [Does not apply to judges fines paid in Pennies, apparently.]

    • That statement can easily be taken of the Bills. Our Social Security Cards no longer say ‘Not to be used for identification’.

      • This is currently a federal statute:

        Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, titled “Legal tender,” states: “United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.”

          • That’s well-said, Anon!

            It is very important to not let them get away with getting us to use their terminology without first defining what is actually meant.

            • It is interesting how they created their fake money so as to be easier to devalue. Now we are fighting to keep using it because it’s better than the alternative.

              I wonder if there could be a bank based secure digital currency that uses gold holdings? Invest in gold, store it physically with the bank. Get issued a digital transaction device that converts your gold to digital coin based on the current value of gold. Spend based on your gold holdings, no credit. Withdraw your remaining gold at any time.

  10. There’s a much less nefarious reason for not accepting cash. Cash is hard. You have to pay someone to go out to the kiosks, get the daily (maybe twice) drop, count it out, make sure everything balances (which means paying your employees enough that they won’t skim for themselves), and make sure they make it back to the bank without getting rolled. It’s probably no more expensive than the payment processor’s fees, but it’s hard. It involves hiring people, managing people and providing mandatory benefits for people. There’s going to be a lot of turnover too, at least these days when everyone expects their entry-level “voice” to be heard and lots of mental health days. And those flimsy charging pedestals would need to be fortified against anyone with a pickup and stout chain driving off with the cash box. More expense!

    This doesn’t work for the move-fast-break-things go go gadget startups. They want to outsource all the hard stuff and just focus on the easy stuff, like lying about how wonderful public charging stations are. And designing sleek and shiny plastic boxes that aren’t going to be too pretty once the local “artists” are through with them. Collecting money doesn’t fit into the one minute pitch deck.

    • RE: “You have to pay someone to go out to the kiosks, get the daily […] make it back to the bank without getting rolled”

      Why not use a drone?
      Automated drop off at a bank, tellers are already there to monitor that.
      Do it often enough that there’s not enough money in the kiosk to entice someone to pull it out like an ATM hooked up to a pickup via chain.

      RE: “count it out, make sure everything balances”

      Why would they have to do that? It’s already been counted out & balanced when it was scanned & accepted the first time.

      Seems to me there’s plenty of practical cheap-ish workarounds.
      In the end though, it’s still all… indifferent.

      The indifference of cashless payments, the removal of the human element, and all that comes with.

      I’ve read that, ‘indifference’ is the worst thing of all. …And, it’s spreading, growing.

      • FAA requires all commercial drones have a pilot. All drones are to be operated exclusively line of sight at all times, unless covered by a case by case waiver. Drones used for transport of objects also need to be operated by a licensed air cargo carrier, much like IPS or FedEx.

        Yes, all this is potentially possible, but will never be profitable under current regulations. Maybe, possibly, perhaps someday soon the FAA will introduce 14 CFR part 108 regulations for operating uncrewed aircraft beyond visual line of sight, and then because there’s a requirement for type certified aircraft, it will be a few years before anyone can fly under part 108 rules.

        Not saying it won’t happen, but the first company to get regulatory approval will have to be ready to lose millions.

    • > flimsy charging pedestals would need to be fortified against anyone with a pickup and stout chain driving off with the cash box.

      It should be possible to reprogram an ATM to handle cash for a cluster of EV chargers. They’re already beefy enough to stand up to what most people could bring to bear against them, considering how they’ve been part of the landscape for decades already. The cash-handling mechanisms might need some alteration on account of the flow being mostly into the machine instead of out of it, but that should be about all that’s needed.

      That they haven’t already done this suggests that something else is in play.

      • They have this setup in many EU countries. There is a kiosk that accepts Euros or cards and its fortified. You put in the # of the pump put in cash or card, and pump away. So this isn’t even something that isn’t available, it exists right now. It has more to do with the control mechanism Eric is talking about I believe.

        Yes, these are not in the States, but they DO exist and could easily be purchased for commercial usage in the US. It is not the tech that is lacking its the will to let people have a choice.

      • Still another expense that they don’t need today, for the relative minority of customers who use cash. Yes, anecdotal evidence suggests there are more people using cash if there’s a choice, but I imagine the Venn diagram doesn’t have much overlap between cash payers and EV owners.

    • Lots of gas stations have EV charging stations already….you can prepay with cash to fill your ice car at the gas pump….it would have been simple to provide that service at the EV charger…prepay with cash….

      they are trying to ban cash….and monitor/control slaves driving around….

  11. If cash was accepted it would created new opportunities for thieves and vandals. And increase the sales of ‘security ‘ systems.

  12. I remember back in 2011 when the tornados decimated a good bit of north Alabama, power was out from days to weeks depending on where you lived. Thinking about running your debit card? Think again.

    Ever since then I keep a wad of cash in my safe. Because like someone above said, it is legal tender no matter how much the federales try to say otherwise.

    • Oh yeah, I can’t count the number of times, after a storm, or some out-of-the-blue technical glitch with the system caused the credit card & debit cards to stop working & there would be shopping carts full of stuff at the checkout lane because the shoppers didn’t realize they could only pay in cash until they got to the checkout lane.

      So too, the little card readers don’t work for some other reason & there’s a dust covered hand written sign at the checkout lane taped over the card reader saying ~ “Sorry, we cannot accept debit cards at this time. Sorry for any inconvenience”. I see those signs all the time. …See them taped over the gas pump card readers now & then, too. No storm, no idea why. Just, “sorry”.

    • Not just cash. Have stocks of gold bullion (small amounts) and silver. Ammo – 9 mm, then .223 Remington and .30-06 or .308 Remington. Regardless of what you shoot. Beer. Liquor. Wine. Canned meats. Soda Pop. All things quite able to BARTER.

      • Soap and toilet paper. Have a warehouse full. You’ll make a mint. Maybe a couple of hundred barrels of fuel too. If you have 10 Troy ounces of gold, 23,039 US dollars, you can buy a good used automobile that will still cost you an arm and a leg just to drive it to work and the grocery store.

        2000 pennies were worth one double-eagle, one Troy ounce of gold in 1900.

        You now need 203,390 pennies of zinc copper-coated pennies.

        Now more than 100 times more. Good old hyper-inflation right there, if you ask me.

        At 2034 fiat dollars to buy a Troy ounce of gold, plus some more for the big guy, your dollar is worth less than one red cent, 95 percent copper, of course.

        The minimum wage should be at the price of a Troy ounce of silver or 26 dollars per hour for cleaning a slop sink.

        The world’s greatest rip-off you will ever see.

  13. ‘Why do you suppose you can’t pay cash …’ — eric

    … when Big Gov air freights pallet loads of it to client states such as Ukraine?

    ‘Speaker Mike Johnson has begun publicly laying out potential conditions for a fresh round of assistance to Ukraine, the strongest indication yet that he plans to push through the House a package that many Republicans view as toxic and have tried to block.

    ‘“When we return after this work [sic] period, we’ll be moving a product, but it’s going to have some important innovations,” Mr. Johnson said on Sunday in an interview on Fox News.’ — NYT

    Got that? This treasonous ripoff is a ‘product.’ And there are numerous ways little citizens can pay for it: such as by extending a loan to bankrupt, near-default Ukraine. Or bargaining with the devil (‘Biden’) to reopen permission for an LNG export terminal in Johnson’s home state of Louisiana.

    Principles are not involved: this is down ‘n dirty sausage making. If Johnson moves forward with Ukraine aid, I’ll urge my Freedom Caucus rep to PULL THE PLUG on his Speakership, via MTG’s petition.

    • Hi Jim,
      I’m not too worried about govco banning cash since as you mentioned they need pallets of it to bribe the assorted warlords in all the sh*thole countries the USSA invades. There were stories circulating during the first Iraq war that several pallet loads of $100 bills went missing, never any accounting for it. Gotta keep those offshore accounts flush with cash.

      • Hi, Mike,
        Think of the possibilities for U. S. Armed Forces recruiting.
        Recruiter: [turns off camera and microphone, opens desk drawer]
        “Son, your MOS is only the beginning….
        With an international deployment, import-export opportunities open up tremendously. The possibilities in currency arbitrage alone could make you a rich man. Have you ever been to Zurich?”

  14. It used to say this on all treasury notes (cash):

    “This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private, and is redeemable in lawful money at the United States Treasury, or at any Federal Reserve Bank.”

    Well, I’m here today going down to my local Federal Reserve Bank to *redeem* my bank notes for “lawful money”. Do you think they have any left?

    • Tons of it,,, but not for you! Bought it with freshly printed “Peoples Money”! Which is why (((they))) aren’t worried about a reset or the death of the currency.

  15. So far this only applies to “fast” chargers. So far. Which aren’t good for your incendiary battery anyway. I would say this may present a business opportunity for a level II charger in your garage. Maybe two or three. But I imagine the Psychopaths In Charge have foreseen this and are already working on a “solution”.

    • That’s a pretty good idea actually. If you have solar panels on your roof you might make more than you would selling your power to the utility. Especially in states like California where net metering came to an abrupt halt once the regulators figured out it was bankrupting PG&E (well, more of a scapegoat, but it did contribute to reduced gross margins).

      • This is what my True Believer BIL does. Panels on the garage and house charge the cars, so they don’t bother with the power company.

  16. When all cars are EVs or even all ICE cars are sufficiently tethered, how long before court orders extend to electronically restraining people’s cars?

  17. ‘Why do you suppose you can’t pay cash …’ — eric

    … to enter a government-run recreation area?

    ‘Starting in June last year, visitors to Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado were told that they could not use cash to enter the park or use its campgrounds. The negative reactions were swift, with visitors raising privacy concerns and expressing confusion about why the American dollar would not be welcome in the U.S. parks system. Some noted that not everyone has credit or debit cards.

    “The National Parks belong to the citizens,” wrote one person, among dozens who complained about the decision on the site’s Facebook page. “If we want to use legal tender then we should.”

    “So now R.M.N.P. is becoming like Walmart self-checkout,” another wrote under the park’s announcement, which later stopped accepting comments and directed people to official channels.

    Now these complaints are the subject of a lawsuit filed on March 6 in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia, asserting that the service’s policies violate federal law defining cash as “legal tender” and the visitors’ “lawful right to pay in cash” at national sites, including those without bank accounts or cards or those who simply prefer to pay cash. — NYT

    Last autumn I heard a BLM manager in Utah explain how converting a small campground from cash pay at a pedestal (slide an envelope of cash into a slot) to prepay via (using debit/credit card) not only cut losses from theft, but instantly ‘upgraded’ the clientele — no more hardscrabble homeless types living in their dilapidated vehicles.

    Yeah, I get it from the MBA ‘maximizing yield’ perspective. But these are public facilities, open to the humble as well as to billionaires. And the lying Federal Reserve still prints ‘legal tender’ on its counterfeit confetti currency.

    This RMNP lawsuit, assuming the hacks in black don’t turn their usual sleazy trick of denying standing, could be the vehicle to blow apart the nasty practice of ‘credit card pay only’ or its even worse successor, ‘app pay only.’

    • Another “feature” of parks these days, at least around MD, VA, DC, and PA, is what these delusion fucks call “trash free” parks. The reality is that they are “trashcan free” parks because apparently collecting trash with our tax dollars is too bothersome. Nope, you keep hold of your trash and take it away with you. In theory.

      Again, the reality is that people say “fuck it, I ain’t doing it” and so there’s trash everywhere. The “trash free” parks are full of trash, full dog waste bags, you name it. Meanwhile, there’s park rangers all over the place, doing… something. Making sure people don’t drink a beer or whatever, I suppose.

    • Meanwhile there are millions of homeless people in the cities, living in tents. I’ll bet there are lots of campgrounds with plenty of open spaces that could be used. Nope. Those are for the German tourists and retirees!

        • Hey Doug….. Yeah,,, I have a different attitude towards ‘homeless’ now.

          A house across the street was invaded by squatters. Within a couple months trash was strewn everywhere. The sisters that owned it tried to get rid of the squatters but they would return after a day or so. Soon the police tired of running them off. They completely destroyed the house. Sisters finally discovered how to get rid of them. They had the house (the home they grew up in) demolished. And I live in Florida where the governor just signed a bill to help eliminate squatting. I don’t think it will work. Squatters can trash a house in less than a month. Police are useless.

    • All rural and wilderness areas are going to be rewilded…agenda 2030….the excuse….because useless eaters are destroying everything…they say….their fake science says so….haha

      All rural and wilderness areas will only be for the enjoyment of the nobility control group….the slaves will have to be happy in their 15 min city/prison camp…..

  18. Properly designed with psychologists, the phone apps also offer a dopamine hit which a cash transaction cannot duplicate, reinforcing the owner’s belief that buying an EV was the right decision … even if it wasn’t.

    Twitter isn’t about the service nearly as much as the addictive properties of the app. Animation, sounds, even the “bounce” when scrolling to the end of the posting list has a carefully designed appeal.

    • This is something I did not know about: “the phone apps also offer a dopamine hit which a cash transaction cannot duplicate”

      Is it the same reason slot machines are still used, even though they don’t drop coin when you win?

      Odd sheet. Makes me think of, ‘Dune’ & the spice.

      • Everybody gets them because it is the only way to get discounts and deals….see McDonald’s the app….without it you pay more and no deals….and all the loyalty points programs have moved to apps…

        With an EV….you need about 6 apps for all the different chargers…or you walk….

        The app supplier makes big bucks selling your data to big brother and everybody…..for every $100 spent you get 1 cent back in points or deals…..but the data is sold for 50 cents…lol…with cash they don’t get that….

        Maybe the banks were getting pushback for all their transaction fees…like 2% on credit cards…with this system they are getting the customer to pay for it….merchant gets kickback for selling data…

        the end of privacy….the beginning of 24/7/365 surveillance….


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