Waterloo for the Radar Detector?

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I love my V1 radar detector. It has without doubt saved me thousands that would otherwise been mulcted out of my hide by radar-trapping cops – and it has made driving fun again. oink one

But it’s got an issue you probably ought to be aware of.

I suspect other radar detectors have the same issue, too.

More and more new cars now come with some form of “adaptive” cruise control, or park sensors, or collision- avoidance/lane departure warning systems. Some of these systems use – you guessed it – radar or laser signals to sense the presence of objects around the perimeter of the car. These signals constantly emanate from within (and around) the car.

The V1 picks up this “noise” – and constantly false alerts –  because it cannot weed out the signals generated by your car’s electronics (which in my experience generate police-type K band signals) and police radar, which is almost always K or Ka band. So, as you’re driving along, the detector is constantly beeping the tone for K band – and the LED warning lights are dancing –  even when there’s no cop around for miles.


I can say this because I live on 16 acres adjacent to several hundred acres out in the middle of Nowhere, VA. There are no radar traps on my land – or on the adjacent land. Not unless the squirrels and deer are manning radar guns behind the trees . . . .

Yet the V1 – in a late model car equipped with adaptive cruise or any of the technologies mentioned above – will immediately light up like the proverbial Christmas tree as soon as I turn the car on (see video above).V1 pic And it will stay lit.

And make noise, too.

This really mucks up the usefulness of the device.

Most people – me along them – are not going to drive down the road with their radar detector constantly beeping. So, they turn down or turn off the audible warning – which inherently reduces the effectiveness of the device. Also, the driver must now try to sort out the real threats from the constant false alerts triggered by the car’s electronics.

You lose the tactical advantage.

Yes, the V1 is capable of being adjusted for more or less sensitivity. And it can display multiple “bogeys.” The problem is you’re forced to assume that at least one of those “bogeys” is your car – not a cop. It might in fact be a cop. In cars without the electronic gadgets, the only time the K band light (and warning beep) goes off is when there’s a cop nearby. So when you hear the tone – and that warning light goes off – you will react faster, instead of wondering whether it’s just the damn car (your car) again.V1 lead

Now, the problem would go away if the in-car radar/laser emanations went away when you deactivated the adaptive cruise control or whatever system it is that relies on these signals to operate. But in my experience (which is extensive, I drive at least one new car a week and  sometimes two or three a week) even if the electronic system is nominally off or disengaged, the car still radiates radar/laser leakage.

I have tried mounting the V1 in different areas, such as away from the main gauge cluster, but this has no effect. If the car has a radar or laser-using system, it seems the radar/laser is always on – and the V1 will always pick up the signal. The only thing I have not tried is mounting the detector externally – in the car’s grille, for instance. Valentine 1 sells a remote display for just this purpose (remote mounting). Check Asda Offers and Aldi Offers. But I doubt it would do a thing to address the problem of radar/laser leakage from a car that has radar (or laser) guided cruise control, collision avoidance – and so on. If anything, the signals would probably be stronger outside the car as opposed to inside the cabin.active pic

Another problem: Even if your car does not have all this techno-crap, other cars do. I have noticed that when I am driving my old Nissan pick-up (which has no techno-crap and never causes the V1 to light up on its own) if I happen to get near a new Audi or Mercedes, the V1 will start popping. I know cops do not drive new A8s nor Benz S550s. Yet the V1 sounds the alarm – because those cars are pulsing out the K band, just like officer friendly.Mercedes-Benz Distronic Plus

I put in a query to Mike Valentine – to get his thoughts and (hopefully) will hear that he’s working on an update. Because if not, the V1 is going to be less and less effective as more and more new cars hit the streets that are equipped with radar or laser-guided whatevers.


Just when I was finally beginning to enjoy driving again. . .

Throw it in the Woods?

PS:This site is almost entirely reader supported now. No Google. (They blacklisted us – so we dumped them. See here for the full story about that.)

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  1. Getting back on topic…these posts are old but I noticed a lot of pro Escort posts. Well I have had both & I prefer the V1 with my V1connect remote display & filtering options. What you should know is the the V1 is constantly being improved. It never gets old. Maybe for some to look at, but Mike Valentine is constantly improving his design. Remember, he used to work for CM/Escort way back when. The latest V1 version has TMF2 which improves upon the original Traffic Monitor Filter by blocking most false alarms caused by K-band lane-change warning systems installed in some newer cars. Not sure what version you have in your video Eric.

    TMF2 is a software algorithm designed to eliminate the false alarms caused by SpeedInfo, a traffic flow-measuring system being installed along some U. S. highways, which sends frequent K-band radar bursts into the traffic stream. See http://www.speedinfo.com to learn more.

    • Thanks Fred!

      And: I need to send mine in for an update. It’s about six years old now… but the idea of being without it for even a few weeks is painful to contemplate.

  2. @Eric – This is from the owners manual of a new Whistler LR-300-GPX radar detector.

    Traffic Flow Signal Rejection (TFSR)
    Recently, many new products operate on X
    or K band causing nuisance alerts to radar
    detectors. Some of these are radar based
    Traffic Monitoring Systems mounted to poles
    alongside the highway and others are K
    Band Lane Change Assistants and Blind Spot
    Detectors found on some automobiles. When
    turned on in option mode, helps eliminate
    excessive alerts from erroneous X and K-band
    sources. Traffic flow monitoring systems are
    getting more common. Many of these systems
    generate radar signals to measure the flow of
    traffic across multiple lanes. Most detectors
    will alert you to it unnecessarily. This rejection
    feature examines the incoming signal and will
    aid in reducing the alerts to such sources.
    We suggest you turn TFSR on if you are
    experiencing excessive X or K band false alerts
    every half mile or so along stretches of roadway
    that contain these traffic flow sensors.

    • Thanks, Gary!

      FYI: Mike Valentine sent me a quick e-mail promising to discuss the issue. As soon as I hear back from him, I will let everyone here know.

      My info may be out of date, but in previous tests of the V1 vs. competition, it scored best overall (laser detection being its historic weak point). It’s certainly possible the V1 is no longer the best unit on the market, of course.

      I hope that’s not the case – as I’d like to not have to spend another $500 on a different radar detector!

        • A $99 detector would be wonderful… if it were effective. Every test I’ve read thus far reveals the bargain-priced detectors to be next to worthless.

          The V1 may be susceptible to the radar emanations of the latest technology in the newest cars, but over the years it has been proved very effective at identifying police radar (and identifying to sooner) while also being among the least susceptible to being detected.

          I can’t speak to the worth of the V1’s competition. But they’re also a lot more expensive than $99!

          • Up until about 7-8 years ago, no other radar detector even came close to the sensitivity of the V1 detector. Around that time Escort/Beltronics achieved parity with V1 sensitivity with some of their higher end units in most of the head-to-head testing I could find. They were also comparably fast at reacting/alerting. What put them ahead of V1 wasn’t sensitivity, but superior filtering. For all its glory, the V1 was pretty poor at filtering out false alerts compared to the competition. Still, though, it had excellent sensitivity and was the radar detector model of choice for cross-country speed challenge racers in the US (e.g., Cannonball Run, Bull Run, Gumball, etc.). When out on the open highway at >100mph, absolute sensitivity mattered most, and the V1 had the sensitivity plus the heritage.

            Thankfully, as with most relatively free markets, there’s always competition making the products better and less expensive. Since that time, in every head-to-head comparison test I can find, models from Beltronics/Escort (same company) consistently outperform the V1 in sensitivity, filtering capability, etc. for about the same money. Other companies have models that perform as well or better than the V1 in the most recent tests I’ve seen as well, though all are fairly expensive, too.

            A lot of groups that tested radar detectors no longer include the Valentine One in their arrays. Some indicated that the V1 had stopped advancing in technology and performance and was being eclipsed by newer, better performing units from other companies. Others claimed that Valentine One is a very small niche player in the radar detector market, even in the high-end market, in terms of volume so doing the testing with a V1 simply didn’t seem realistic to them.

            Judging from the response letter from Mr. Valentine, it sounds like the latest V1s are improving their filtering considerably, or at least attempting to do so. I really loved my V1, but switched to Escort due to the sheer number of ever-increasing false alerts. I have been pretty pleased with the performance, and my seat of the pants impression is that the higher end units from Escort and Beltronics really do outperform the venerable V1. I’ve even been alongside other cars with V1s mounted in the windshields (pretty easy to spot if you’re familiar with them) and seemed to pick up the radar alert a few hundred yards ahead of them, as evidenced by my braking to within the speed limit well before they did for the same cop. That’s only happened twice, and by no means was this definitive, but I’d say it performs at least as well in practical application.

            But I miss the arrows on the V1. Very helpful.

            If you’re really interested, the Escort Redline and the Escort Max are the two top-performing detectors that Escort currently manufactures. The 9500xi is also very good, though a little older. If you run in car circles, surely someone has one they’d let you play around with for comparison’s sake. Might make a good article.

          • Just got a new flyer from CM yesterday. It shows the Redline to be the ultimate in range on every band including lidar. Twin antenna with Total Shield, said to be completely undetectable(their words). Back when CM came out with Escort a friend bought another brand a couple years later, a Cobra, and it never falsed like the CM did but it didn’t have near the sensitivity the Escort had either. We often ran them together so knowing the range of each was a great thing since we could ignore some of the falses of the Escort. It would pick up microwave in the middle of nowhere just from towers but it would also pick up radar from 6 miles away too. It would appear for sheer sensitivity, the Redline is a winner. It also has the Escort Live network that would be good in many places. Passport Max has DSP(digital signal processing) a unique scanning method making it faster in identifying real threats. It comes with Defender Database of active red light and seed camera locations. It claims the fastest identifying ability of any detector. Since it’s such a big deal, I would think these claims probably have to be verified much like claims of oil protection. I like the idea of the dual built in units too, what they say is the Ultimate in long range performance ad completely undetectable with ShifterPro sensors that provide the lastest laser threats. It has GPS proprietary software that eliminates false alerts automatically. They call it the MacDaddy of all detectors so I guess that’s a dubious claim. It’s $1999.95 so it must have something going for it. There is a new Laser ShifterPro unit for just laser that’s $600 with twin front mounted laser transceivers. I once ran some with a guy who had a unit made in El Paso that was a detector and a jammer. He never got caught but maybe they just wanted to avoid a shoo-out since he was the most dangerous guy I’d ever ridden with. All out with a souped up Duramax and then all out braking right almost into other people. My second ride was my last. He’d be the fastest thing on the road by a long shot, well above 100 mph and then slam on his brakes when coming on slower traffic when he could have just moved to another lane and gone around. But he never got caught.

            • Hi Eight,

              Thanks for all that – lots of info to ponder!

              Up to now, I have been very happy with the V1. I went from averaging at least 1 ticket a year to one ticket in five years. It’s not infallible, but it dramatically improves your odds – and I think that’s the most one can expect from any detector.

              The Redline sounds as though it would improve those odds even more, but $2k is a lot to spend on a detector that may be only slightly better than the $500 V1.

              The problem it has with in-car radar/laser generation is only a big hassle if you happen to have a car equipped with one of those systems (e.g., lane departure/blind spot warning). My personal vehicles don’t have that – and I will never have that in my personal vehicles. The problem crops up when I use the V1 in a press vehicle – the new cars I get to test drive.

              Of course, that problem is going to get bigger as stuff like lane departure warning, etc. becomes standard equipment in all new cars.

              But, again, $2k for a radar detector?

              I’d see it if the thing were say 50 percent better than the V1 (since it costs almost four times as much) but it looks as though it’s maybe 10 or so percent better.

              That means it might save me from getting that 1 ticket every five years I’ve been getting with the V1.

              That puts the break even point pretty far down the road, as 1 ticket every five years (assuming it’s not a “reckless” driving ticket) is usually not enough to do real damage, insurance-wise. And the fine for a typical speeding ticket is still about $150 or so in most places.

              $150 every five years is gonna take a while to amortize that $1,500 higher up-front price.

              I’d be tempted to switch if it were $700 or so … but $2k is way too high for me, for the nominal performance difference.

          • Due to changes in Illinois law I’ve been looking at some radar detector geek sites. From my reading the escort redline is the best for radar detector geeks. This appears to be the case because not only the performance capabilities of the detector but how they can customize it and tweak it.

            Me? I don’t have the time to invest becoming a radar detector geek. Right now I am leaning to the passport max. I’ll read more reviews on it now that it’s been out longer and make my decision between the redline, max, and V1, or continue as I have without one. The V1 just seems to be coming in as barely hanging on competitively and to get the most out of it, it seems to also require geeking out with it.

          • Eric,

            Here is some prices from radarbusters com.

            A radar detector forum
            with many knowledgeable posters.


            What model are you specifically referring?

            A quick look at this site indicates to me that the portable high-end RDs are all under $650. It appears that the more expensive units are units that require a professional install (ie units that cannot be easily transferred between different vehicles.)

          • eric, I screwed up on that The 9500 ci is the Mac Daddy, a double antenna permanent install job that’s $2 K. The Redline is $500 and the Max is $550. Sorry about that mess. The Laser Shifter Pro is another dual front antenna laser only unit for $600 that says it has true laser diodes to maximize its effectiveness. Considering what I have given for detectors in the past($300) 25 years ago for a Passport, the price of detectors is well below what it used to be comparing this economy and mid 80’s economy.

  3. Has anyone here tried the phone app ‘WAZE’? I downloaded it on my android and used it on 500mi weekend trip…It’s an excellent app and should eliminate the need for a radar detector

  4. The only Harry Harrison story I remember reading is Make Room Make Room.

    Harry Harrison hated Annapolis Grad Robert Heinlein’s Starship Troopers and wrote Bill the Galactic Hero as a satire of Heinlein’s fascist collectivist science fiction novel.

    After Heinlein read Bill the Galactic Hero, he never spoke to Harry Harrison again.

    Harry Harrison’s Bill, the Galactic Hero is a comedic anti-establishment / anti-military / anti-dehumanization novel extraordinaire. This cynical and smart SF satirist is also the author of Make Room! Make Room! (1966) which was the rough basis for the motion picture Soylent Green.

    In the small subgenre of humorous SF/fantasy, Harry Harrison’s one of the best. A pioneer of the field, he also wrote the Stainless Steel Rat series, Planet Story, and the laugh-out-loud-funny Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers

    His non-comedic novels aren’t as good. With impeccable comic timing, Harrison spoofs the sci-fi genre because he loves it, and he wants to change some of its stuffy and narrow-minded conventions.

    In Bill, the Galactic Hero, Harrison takes the standard “Space Marine” storyline and puts a big spin on it. With a few changes, the plot, Harrison admits, is almost the same as Starship Troopers (kid joins the Space Marines, goes to boot camp, becomes a hero, etc.).

    The politics of Annapolis graduate Robert Heinlein and Harrison the Esperanto-reading former Army sergeant couldn’t be more diametrically opposed. (About Heinlein’s conceit in Starship Troopers that a person was only a “citizen” allowed to vote”after serving in the military, Harrison once said, “I remember reading that and thinking: I know a lot of veterans, and they’re mostly all alcoholics or mad!”)

    Thankfully, the character of Bill isn’t even in the heroic position to be a front-line soldier: he’s a Fuse Tender Third Class, stuck in the bowels of the spaceship changing the 100-pound fuses when the battle-cruiser’s laser cannons burn them out.

    But he’s not out of harm’s way: when one of the fuses explodes, Bill loses his left arm. Horribly wounded, the staggers into the gunroom and passes out on the controls-pushing the “FIRE” button and successfully destroying the enemy ship.

    Because there’s a shortage of left arms, the doctors sew on a black right one. Although disconcerted about having mismatched skin colors and two right arms, Bill optimistically muses, “At least I can now shake hands with myself.”

    Bill’s ending up with two right arms might be a sly jab at the right-wing crypto-fascist tendencies found in so many protagonists in military adventure books.

    The book not only attacks the “Space Marine” sub-genre, but all jingoistic, gung-ho, pro-war propaganda (be it novels or films). It’s because of the longevity of bloodthirsty and militaristic paperbacks, where government-sanctioned super-soldiers (SF or otherwise) go on killing sprees.

    Bill the Galactic Hero – Harry Harrison

    Make Room Make Room – Harry Harrison

    Harry Harrison works at Project Gutenberg

    Reading the first few pages of Bill, the Galactic Hero, originally published in 1965, it still seems fresh. Bill isn’t merely anti-Starship Troopers, he’s also anti-Rambo and anti-cannon fodder in general. Something any anarcho-capitalist or libertarian should be able to relate to.

    • Tor,

      Thanks for bringing this to my attention! I’d never heard of Harry Harrison before. Gonna order a couple books today… hat tip, sir!

      • Looks like Bill the Galactic Hero is also to be a low budget film directed by Alex Cox. It’s in the 5th week of preproduction now.



        Alex Cox once directed films for Universal Pictures, such as Repo Man, Sid and Nancy, and Walker. Since the late 1980s, he has been on a blacklist, and has turned to teaching and producing independent films.

        Cox is an atheist and many of his films have an explicit anti-capitalist theme or message. He was originally set to direct Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas but was replaced by Terry Gilliam due to creative differences with Hunter S. Thompson.

        Amateurs Do a Scene From BTGH

        • Tor, per your link: http://alexcoxfilms.wordpress.com/

          for those who didn’t open it I’ll give you the text here:

          Just to relate, for those not receiving backers’ updates, that BILL THE GALACTIC HERO has been in preproduction for five weeks now. We have five spacesuits and five more on the way, plus various space vehicles and a robot band. We’re still waiting for the return of our camera tests to determine whether we shoot on Kodak or Orwo black and white stock.

          The floods in Boulder caused the closure of the CU campus and our auditions were postponed to the coming weekend. Otherwise we’re still on track, I think.

          But the main point of this post is to share with you an article which appeared in yesterday’s Guardian reporting that the British Ministry of Defence is concerned that the English aren’t keen enough on war. In order better to promote war, the unnamed military mandarins propose a five point plan: 1. to ensure that the public is exposed to a “positive campaign narrative” in time to drum up support for the next war; 2. “reduce the profile of the repatriation ceremonies” (till recently dead British solders were given a short parade out of the airfield to which they were returned, draped with the Union Jack. This is to end); 3. “discredit the notion that serving in the armed forces is just another job” (Not just a job! It’s an adventure!); 4. “reduce public sensitivity to the penalties inherent in military operations”; and 5. “indicate an attitude that the service may involve sacrifice and that such acts are knowingly and willingly undertaken” (translation: the damned squaddies are getting paid — they shouldn’t bitch if they get their guts blown out).

          You can read the eight-page public schoolboy control fantasy here (the link to download a text version is currently broken).

          It’s depressing to see public servants whose salaries are paid by the British public trying to drive their country into further financial ruin, to say nothing of the deaths, torture, and environmental devastation. It’s outrageous to observe their utter disdain for the young men killed by their pernicious tomfoolery. And it’s both salutory and frightening to contemplate points 1. and 4. Just how exactly will the “positive campaign narrative” and the “reduced public sensitivity” be achieved? Via the media. There is no other way. The Army could put up billboards alongside the motorway, I suppose — “Don’t Worry! They’re only Ragheads!” Droney the Drone could visit primary schools and boy scout camps. More likely, the wreck of the British film industry will produce a patriotic flick or two, extolling British military virtues while reminding us that soldiers are little better than mercenaries, and that we shouldn’t worry all that much when they get killed – nor concern ourselves about who they kill in the process.

          A corking plan, what? It was devised last year, and just made public via a FOIA request. Can we expect even less coverage of the war in Afghanistan on the BBC and the other TV stations; no visuals whatsoever of victims of war, on either side; some cute documentaries showing the humanitarian benefits of Predator Drones (identifying sources of water for the refugee camp! Saving FIFA World Cup slaves lost in the Arabian Desert); and maybe even a rolicking miniseries (with a guest American director, ideally), about the S.A.S. or a private mercenary company?

          Well, well, things not rocking along too good for the war party so they’ll just try more obfuscation and blowing smoke.

  5. electro mag wave counter and counter-counter measures.
    1.)start the kicksrarrtturrr project as there are UNEMPLOYED electofield
    inegineiurs still left in the good ole usa.
    2.)only use the adapt conf radarlaser when slow in trafifiic.
    3.)go the FPGA way parallela doat com for better detetctor
    4.)sciencedaily.com has taught monkeys to use virtual reality arms and the
    next step fo teee brain–yaicc is to get the squirrel to shoot the blinding
    laser. It is only sporting for we have a 22 and tehy got nuthnig

    5.)start the kick saaayarter campaign
    5.)the nuu warld ordrdumdm aka IEEE or intnernational trans nat vagineers
    bad typo

    6.)the mechanical shield too much darn leakage and it tends to find the
    pinholes and gaskets.

    7.)algol chip screener is best, but some myakirs are fyakir vagineers.

    6.)a drone with used part mikorwave oven tuner can set off the pulse for
    false positive?
    the land of radyator pollutants with LTE. darn squirrel has a counter-measure with a green dzzlyer led 🙂

  6. I once went by one of those idiotic radar stations that gives you a reading of your alleged speed.

    I was being slightly overtaken by a late model Audi, maybe by 1-2 miles an hour, and the radar readout went crazy. Reading speeds bouncing up into the three digit range before flashing red at 87. We were both going between 53-58.

    I don’t trust police radar. Wish I had a video of that encounter, which also showed the speedometer.

    And Clovers wonder why people use tech like detectors when they drive…

  7. You know, there may be a silver lining in this. IF you car is setting off the radar detector because it’s emitting signals in the same bands that the Cops use, then you could go into court and tell the Judge “The reading is likely nonsense, my car emits K band signals, so there’s no way to distinguish which signal the officers unit used to calculate my speed – his, or my cars.”

  8. No, it is not going to get any better. The people will keep choosing “smart cars etc”, because this is the right choice in the situation.

    I’d like to turn your attention to something that really determines the future, – and that is how things are funded. I know that many will have no idea as to what I am talking about, but then there are some that do.

    The reason that the humanity is making the idiotic choices all the time, wether it is the smart cars, driverless cars, or kardashian tv shows, is that we are living inside a common domain. Therefore, the “tragedy of commons” applies to our every choice – the idiotic choice is always the right one.

    More, if you focus you attention to the government, you’ll see that it indirectly funds much much more that it funds directly, – by shaping the society.

    All of this stuff is idiotic and incapable of existing on its own. It would die off if we only figure out how to kill the commons. The commons subsidize the idiotic. We must make the necessary changes to insure that it is no longer possible to fund anything that a person himself isn’t willing to fund. We must stop all the systems that function “for the good of all” and against the wishes of everyone in particular.

    This is the only way out.

    • Global Mercantilist’s Fake Commons –
      The Perverted Distorted Market That Makes Free Enterprise Impossible

      (Premise: Oligarchs collude to subsidize and artificially lower the cost of international shipping. Result: England buys its apples from China!)

      These facts go far to explaining why Chinese apples undercut Kentish apples in Kent, and why it is worth concentrating the manufacture of virtually all electronic goods in a few coastal regions of China, and why most of the clothes we buy are put together in Turkish and Bangladeshi sweatshops.

      It goes far to explaining why, when I drive home every summer from the family trip to Slovakia, I share fabulously expensive motorways with lorries that pay a pittance per mile, and burn diesel at prices—even allowing for taxes— far below the real cost of extraction and transport, and that are carrying goods to places like Manchester and Leeds where once whole armies were employed in their manufacture.

      In short, the manufacturing side of the globalisation that traditionalists denounce proceeds from a pattern of comparative advantage that makes sense only on the basis of systematic externalisations of cost.

      This is not a natural order. It is not free market capitalism. It is instead a global mercantilism in which a cartel of ruling classes has decided that certain regions should specialise in certain activities.

      If notebook computers are not made in Basingstoke, it may be less because firms in Canton are better at making them than because their final prices all over the world do not take fully into account their costs of manufacture and distribution.


      Libertarianism, Conservatism, And Immigration: The Hoppe Solution. Sean Gabb on Vdare.


  9. thanks for writing a review of your dinosaur radar which people of any obvious tech savy do not use anymore. I am with everyone else, as my escort gives no false alerts, and I too drive a lot. looks like you need to research what you’re writing a bit more before taking it to the public.

    • Dave,

      I discussed the issue I’ve discovered with the V1 – which is a popular unit that has done very well in numerous tests against the other radar detectors on the market.

      What’s your point, exactly?

      • that you just wrote an article that has zero relevancy. anyone that is anyone drives with an escort or belltronics. and that the quality of your writing has gone down hill ever since that “gooogle” took you down.

        • “Dave” – that is, Handsome Jim:

          I assume the article is relevant to people who own or who are considering the purchase of a V1. It is one of the best-selling units on the market and there are probably millions of them in circulation.

          PS: It might be a good idea to master grade school grammar and usage before critiquing other people’s writing abilities.

          • For the love of Aristotle, please no sock puppetry here.

            For the record, I am Tor Munkov, Minotaur, & Libertarian. Munkov is not recognized, Minotaur can’t log in, Libertarian is able to log in, but only when I use googul chrome.

            The Cheaters Guide To Winning Arguments

            Things You Can Use a Sock Puppet For
            Support Your Argument
            Spar With Your Critics
            Sell a Product
            To Have a Friend

            A sane person with a sock puppet is capable of using only a fraction of its power. Now that you’re through the looking glass, we can finally make the most of your lack of mental balance.

            Here’s some advanced techniques you can try out to really unleash the sock-beast!

            – Make big plans to start a band with your sock puppet, and then have a huge falling out.

            – Cybersex yourself over Skype; post the results to YouTube.

            – Accuse your main persona of being a sock puppet.

            – Get furious with your sock puppet, start trying to get them banned from the community.

            – Threaten your sock puppet that you’ll stop using them to kill them off.

            – Trick your sock puppet in to posting their address, mail them an inch thick document of the word BLOOD printed in 8000-point font across 300 pages.

            – When the police come — notified by the Post Office of the sticky 10-pound envelope with the return and mailing addresses pointing at each other with arrows — calmly tell them that you can explain everything.

            – Run to the bathroom and shatter the mirror you’ve made with the hole cut into it at waist level.

            – During trial, try to cut a deal to testify against yourself.

            – If that fails and you find yourself in prison, just be careful around yourself in the shower. That’s traditionally where you get you.

          • Horse, I’m a big Harry fan. I have read nearly everything he wrote. Loved the SS Rat series as well as all others. Ah, to be sitting by the river with the peace pipe, a cup of joe and a SS Rat book….but I’ll forgo the buzzkill with the cop though.

        • With grammar and punctuation like that, even Google would not hire him.

          So Dave, your pissy little comment was because Eric did not write an article specifically to your wants? Aren’t we the oh so superior entitled one?

          • OMG, I almost mentioned HJ Sunday on another post but got scared if I said it, he would come.. ..I shouldn’t have thought it, bad me, bad me.

          • 8, he reminds me of one of those demons on the scary movies. I just saw a good one, “The Conjuring”, supposedly based on a true story, as many of them claim to be.

            Those demonic ghosts in such flicks are scary as shit if they are good at what they’re supposed to do. There was a dadgum, stomp down good’un in that movie. if I was a kid, I would have peed all over the place when I watched that movie.

  10. “(CNSNews.com) – Before the end of this year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will decide whether or not to begin the rulemaking process to mandate that newly manufactured cars include what is being called “vehicle-to-vehicle” (V2V) communications technology that constantly broadcasts via radio wave the car’s location, direction, speed and, possibly, even the number of passengers it is carrying.”


    It’s not going to get any better. The clovers are the least of our problems.

  11. I noticed when I was back east my detector went off far more often on the highways (in highway mode) than it does out here in the wide open west. I chalked it up to adaptive cruise on tight little highways with no median and put it into city mode. Not quite as trustworthy, but I don’t really depend on my radar detector either. Sometimes it’s just nice to know there’s a cop around, ready to chase after those dollars if I do anything that he considers wrong.

  12. CloverHey, I’ve got a radical idea. Drive the speed limit. I get so sick and tired of classless, rude, disrespectful drivers that feel like they have to speed everywhere and risk other peoples’ and animals’ lives. I always go about 5 over the limit. That way, I never have to worry about where the pigs are hiding and I don’t have to worry about running someone or something over. And I get to where I’m going just fine. Speeding is not necessary, except, I guess, for people with no patience or sense of courtesy.
    Btw, I hate the clovers as much, if not more than, you. I consider rude speeders to be another kind of clover.

    • Hi Matt,

      You have a very subjective and arbitrary view of “speeding.” Why is 5 MPH “speeding” acceptable to you, but 10 MPH “speeding” is not? What makes your “speeding” ok – but my speeding not ok?

      The truth is speed limits are arbitrary political constructs – commonly set well below prevailing average traffic flow with the object being to place every driver on every road in constant peril of being issued a ticket. It has very little to do with “safety” – and very much to do with extracting revenue.

      Any device or tactic that one can use to foil this system is good stuff in my book.

      • Dear Eric,


        Gary Gibson, over at the Dollar Vigilante echoes our sentiments about “speeding” as blind obedience.

        And how!

        Only Slaves Respect The Limit: TDV Week in Review December 1st, 2013
        Speeding is Spontaneous Order

        I drive a lot these days. (Those of you who tuned into TDV Homegrown in time for the recent release of the November issue know why.) So I spend many hours of each day marveling at how inanely restrictive and commonly ignored the government speed limits are.

        Everywhere I drive, people routinely and safely exceed the posted speed limits by about 30%. And they’re right to do it! Every 25 mph zone is safely handled at 30-35. Every 55 mph stretch makes 70 mph feel natural. The 70 mph zones are the most sensible and people barely exceed that limit because that’s about the limit at which most people can handle their vehicles safely even under ideal conditions. Even then, however, 80-85 mph is also perfectly manageable for a significant percentage of drivers.

        So we all fly along at speeds we can actually manage given our level of driving skill and the road conditions, particularly the width and straightness of the road along with lack of obstacles and potential slower-moving incidentals (like deer or human pedestrians). We use the roads at the speeds for which they were actually designed.

        But every now and then we all come across an armed predator whose vehicle is wrapped in the local gang colors and who is looking to run down, corner, and extort from those going above the local gang’s limit and we slow way down. This impedes us all in the completion of our intended commercial or personal goals while also creating much more danger on the road.

        It drives me nuts how people are inherently anarchist on the road, policing themselves, trusting their own judgments while ignoring the government’s rules and organizing themselves, yet willing to bow and scrape and admit they were wrong when one of the state’s enforcers appears and forces them over at gunpoint to demand money for going along at completely safe speeds!

        Ignore for just a moment all the other arguments for anarchism and pure free markets. You’d think the daily example of the beauty of self-organization and the destructive, criminal interference of state enforcers to flex muscle and collect cash would get people to start thinking.

        What drives me really nuts, however, are those people who actually strictly obey the speed limits on major highways. All the time.

        Even the uniformed thugs don’t bother people going five miles or so over the limit (if only because it’s better for their quotas to devote their limited harassment time to those driving the fastest). It takes some serious authority-worship to make a man consistently drive the speed limit. It reveals a mind so whipped that it throws reason out to make as much room as possible for obedience.

        If you’re stuck in the USSA, you have to grab your freedom where you can. Ignoring the speed limit is one small way to empower yourself. Slow down where you know the uniformed predators lie in wait, but wherever and whenever you can, drive at the speed that suits the road conditions and your level of comfort. Speed for liberty’s sake.


        Gary Gibson
        Editor, The Dollar Vigilante

    • Matt – ” I get so sick and tired of classless, rude, disrespectful drivers that feel like they have to speed everywhere and risk other peoples’ and animals’ lives. ”

      But then you go on to claim that you also speed.

      I get so sick and tired of self-righteous, classless, rude, disrespectful posters who think that they get to define how much THEY can break the rules while chastising others for the same. Hypocrite much?

    • Hey, Matt, – I’ve got an Idea! Go play in traffic. Thanks for explaining exactly how fast one is permitted to speed and not be an asshole in your book.

      If I’m driving the speed limit, I stay to the right. If someone is trying to overtake me, and I’m in no hurry, I’ll use a turnout and let them by. If they are an asshole, I’m getting out of their way. Likewise if they are in a hurry for some other reason. And, guess what? I don’t know which it is. I’m not that smart. So I let them by.

      Sometimes people have a reason to drive six miles over the typically arbitrary speed limit instead of five.

      Incidentally, there are places in New Mexico where there are double fines for speeding, and the place has “construction zone” signs all over the place – even though no construction has taken place there for years.

      If you’re driving five over, you’re doubly fucked. One for speeding in a construction zone, and two, you also get double fines.

      I’ve seen State Troopers tag-teaming drivers on that road every time I’ve been on it. Get the picture, alleged Clover hater?

  13. Just wrap your car (or the relevant part of it) in its very own tin foil hat. But I suspect that that might cause incidental cooling problems, from being next to something outputting energy and blocking its path out.

    • The tin foil hat concept was first mentioned in a science fiction short story by Julian Huxley, “The Tissue-Culture King”, first published in 1927, in which the protagonist discovers that “caps of metal foil” can be used to block the effects of telepathy.

      Since then, the use of the term has been associated with paranoia and conspiracy theories. The supposed reasons for their use include the prevention of perceived harassment from governments, spies, or paranormal beings.

      The notion that a tin foil hat can significantly reduce the intensity of incident radio frequency radiation on the wearer’s is scientifically valid, as the effect of strong radio waves has been documented for quite some time. A well-constructed tin foil enclosure would approximate a Faraday cage, reducing the amount of radio frequency electromagnetic radiation passing through to the interior of the structure.

      Tissue Culture King – Julian Huxley

      Conspiracy theories can be broadly classified into event conspiracies, systemic conspiracies, and super conspiracies.

      Most event conspiracy theories fall loosely into one of four sub-types, in increasing order of improbability:

      1) Exploited Event – the “Glad it happened” theory. Here the events are genuine, and the conspirers are as surprised as anyone that they happened – however they immediately begin to exploit those events, and spin, lie, and distort what actually happened to further their goals.

      2) Allowed Event – the “Let it happen” theory. Here the events are as they appeared to be. The 9/11 attacks were performed by terrorists hijacking planes. JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald. However in this scenario, there is a set of secret conspirers (PTB) who are aware of the planned event ahead of time, and could have stopped it by warning people.

      3) Deliberate Event – the “Made it happen” theory. Here the events are real, but they were performed or ordered by the people behind the conspiracy. In this scenario the World Trade Center was hit by remote control planes, and the buildings brought down by controlled demolition.

      4) Faked Event – the “It didn’t happen” theory. Here the entire event is a concoction of the government and the media. In this world view, we are living in a “matrix” style constructed reality.


      Advanced Beings You Need Tin Foil To Resist:

      The Arcturians are the most loving and non-judgmental beings you can possibly imagine. Their skin is a greenish color. They have very large almond shaped eyes. They only have three fingers.

      They have the ability to move objects with their minds, and are totally telepathic. The source of food is an effervescent type of liquid that is highly vitalizing to their entire being. Their eyes are a dark brown or black color.

      Their main source of seeing is actually through their telepathic nature, not their physical eyes. Their sense of hearing even transcends their telepathic nature. They also have an ability to sense with the back of their heads.

      The average life span is from 350 to 400 of our earth years.
      Their highly developed spiritual nature has allowed them to never age, since they have the ability to transcend time and space. They terminate the life when the contract that has been arranged for their existence is up. There is no sickness on Arcturus, it was eliminated centuries ago.

      The Alpha-Draconians are attempting to keep an invasion “window” open by suppressing advanced technology from the Earthling masses, which otherwise would lead to eventual Terran colonization of other planets and an eventual solution to the population, pollution, food and other environmental problems.

      The Greys are impregnating human females on a massive scale, and later extracting their fetuses during abortion procedures. They further process these human fetuses and use them as biological material which enable the them to give birth to “clones” of themselves and increase their overall number of sentient beings.

      Greys are logic-based and operate on base animal survival or predatory instincts. They are emotionally insensitive to humans, and ’feed’ off of human’s ’life energy’, the ’vital essence’ or ’soul energy’ of humans.

      Humans seen working with the Greys have appear ’lifeless’ and ’emotionless’ to witnesses who observe them. The Greys are extremely deceitful and although they act on ’logic’, to them it is ’logical’ to use extremely complex forms of deception to bring about their goals.

      Their basic program is service to self. The use Earth as a supply depot, for biological materials. They are highly telepathic in nature and have the ability to magnify their mental field in order to maintain significant control over humans.

      Alien Species Active In Earth’s Evolution

      • Dear Tor Minotaur,

        Glad you are here and posting regularly, missed your insights while you were tripping.

        Mind expanding posts every time.


      • Forget conspiracy theories – give me the conspiracy facts!
        Your type 1 conspiracy is the type that inspired Rahm Emanuel to say, “Never let a good disaster go to waste.” Or words to that effect, don’t remember the exact quote. BTW, his father was in the Irgun.
        You can debate whether Pearl Harbor was type 2 or type 3, but it was one or the other.
        The USS Maine could probably be considered type 4. Although it did blow up, it was an accident, not sabotage.

  14. I’ll never understand why people would trust these “adaptive” devices. I drive about 45,000 miles a year. I wouldn’t dream of trusting control of my automobile to some dumb gadget. There are just too many idiots out there – including cops, who are some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I trust only MYSELF to avoid them, not some gadget over which I have limited or no control.

    Having read this article, I would have some hope that these adaptive control devices WOULD jam speed limit enforcement (revenue collection) radar. (Let the Suckers do the work for me, as it were…) Is this the case?

    Thanks for this story. I wondered where all those false, constant, six-bar alerts on my RD were coming from.

  15. One wonders though if all these adaptive cruise systems and other techno “driverless” things blast out tons of radio waves, radar, laser and so forth, isn’t it likely to screw up the radar used by the cops in speed traps, speed cameras, and so on?

    Even better, if they perfect these driverless cars to obey traffic laws to the T, and they become a common sight, what’s gonna happen to “traffic enforcement” and all the revenue it generates? The gummit up here in Michigan is already shitting it’s pants over the fact that due to the people buying fuel efficient cars like the Ford Fiesta, Volkswagen Passat, and hybrids like the Prius, that the revenue from fuel taxes is dropping fast, just wait til rapid dollar devaluation. Bet they’ll make more laws up to screw us (like Satellite Road Tracking/Pricing.)

  16. Bet some smartass bullshitcrat required the government approved systems to broadcast on the same band as the radar detectors to enhance revenue collection from the proletariat. This was done on purpose to screw up radar detectors like Eric has.

  17. I’m pretty sure cops sometimes drive civilian cars as well. Can the detector detect those? Will cops generally pull over “speeders” and the like in a civilian car?

  18. I had considered this possibility years ago when adaptive cruise control first started making an appearance, but as it never seemed to be an issue with my RD before, I had forgotten about it. Now that you’ve said something, I have been noticing a few more false alerts with no obvious police car in sight and no other logical source (in the middle of nowhere, no nearby structures, no police, just fellow motorists), and this could be the reason. Since there’s a number of factors in play here, I decided to do some internet searching to see what I could find.

    First, here is a nice article from 2011 addressing the same issue that mentions Valentine One and a communications director there. It’s as you suspected:


    Other digging led me to the following further tidbits of information.

    1. Adaptive cruise control systems may use different technologies. Looks like there’s at least three different systems, and presumably they would have differing effects on radar detectors (RDs).


    2. Apparently the “blind spot monitoring” systems on some cars, often less expensive models than those with adaptive cruise control, also use radar frequencies that can set off RDs. I wonder if the Buick you were demonstrating the false alerts has such sensors. Might explain why you got two signals as it likely has the systems on each side mirror.

    3. There appears to be no technical reason for such systems to use police radar frequencies and could easily be built to use frequencies not use those. There’s even some concern that it would be illegal for them to do so, though as someone else mentioned, it may be too low-power to fall under regulation or there may be an exception made in the law for this function. Incidentally, there doesn’t seem to be any real chance of it interfering with police radar function as radar gun jamming requires massive power levels and is still very difficult to do. There is no practical method of jamming police radar regardless of the fact that it also is illegal to do so.

    4. Another factor in this is the filtering software of the RD itself. Those with better filtering tend to false alert much less. Escort/Beltronics seem to have the best filtering on the market at this time. CNet did a single test, with a single RD, a Beltronics, and a single vehicle with adaptive cruise control, a Mercedes CL, and it did not set off the Beltronics RD. That was only one case, though. I have seen reports on the internet that Mercedes CAN set off some RDs.


    I drove with a V1 for many years, and still have that cherished unit in a safe location. However it appears that the venerable V1 has been caught and surpassed by the best RDs from certain other manufacturers, especially Escort/Beltronics, both in terms of radar sensitivity and laser. Combining this with the vastly better experience of GPS-based filtering as well, and I have not missed my V1 at all (except the arrows, I miss the arrows, despite comments to the contrary rearward laser sensitivity is HUGELY important).

    The V1 has always been prone to false alerts and is notorious for poor filtering of false alerts. I suspect that if a range of manufacturers’ RDs were tested, there would be a significant difference in number of false alerts triggered by adaptive cruise control and blind spot monitoring systems between them. I would expect the results to vary based on both sensitivity (since these “safety” systems seem to be low power) and filtering prowess. Ultimately, the more sensitive they are, the more they will false alert unless their filtering is up to snuff. Also cheaper RDs likely would false alert simply due to poorer filtering, especially if it’s your own car with these systems installed in it.

    So I’m hoping that a combination of pressure on the component manufacturers to use non police radar frequencies and the RD manufacturers developing smarter filtering algorithms may restore the usability of RDs in the future.

    In the mean time, it might be interesting to get an extension cord and an AC-to-12V converter and hook up your V1 outside the car and use it to localize the source of the radar signals in any such cars that seem to set it off. You could also confirm that it is not some errant false alert (maybe from one of your NSA squirrels) in the area by turning off the car and seeing if the signal dies.

  19. I have a feeling this is something that will work itself out. If the emissions from adaptive cruise control systems are messing with your V1, I’d be willing to bet that they’re causing havoc for police radar guns as well, especially since they’d be on the business end of the emitter in the car.

    If it at all causes revenue-generation to lose efficiency, rest assured that steps will be taken to correct the situation. Maybe radar gun manufacturers will offer discounted upgrades from K-band radars to Ka-band for those agencies still using the older stuff.

    As an aside, it was my understanding that an FCC license was required to operate a transmitting device in the 24GHz (K) band (coincidentally helping to make active radar jammers illegal). I wonder how the auto manufacturers get around this or if there’s some sort of “special” license granted to the purchaser via the manufacturer.

    • On the FCC license point, if the signal output is less than a certain wattage, then usually there’s no license needed; the jammers emit at a higher wattage. The radar gun is also smart enough to sift through the noise to find it’s own signal (unless, as you said, it’s being jammed). In all, I doubt these weak radar signal sources are significantly interfering with the radar guns.

    • @ferret – The FCC gave the car makers exemptions in the 80’s for this “collision avoidance” stuff, which was labeled experimental back then.

      Just stuff an Ebay Chinese made 2 watt K,Ka spread spectrum transmitter in the car. That will jam everything around, including police radar. Of course your new car will be swerving and braking and beeping all over the place, but hey that will make driving fun.

      • Excellent. More interesting stuff to pull out of cars at the junkyard this week.

        Seven or eight of these units mounted on the F-350 should make traffic much more entertaining. Merc’s and Audi’s slamming into each other because the idiot behind the wheel put all their faith in the cars electronics rather than ‘driving’. Anyone know what the manufacturers do to prevent two of these systems confusing each other?

        I wonder just how many driving aids (doing nothing but broadcasting radar) can be added to my truck before some government body decides I have ‘too much safety’?

  20. Eric – I’ve not seen this with either of my Escort 9500ix’s (one for me, one for my wife). She’s got a 2012 LR4 with parking assist which has never set it off. Likewise I don’t see a lot of falsing while driving along with other cars – if the detector goes off along a known route (it learns signals that are constant by GPS location), it’s a cop.

    I doubt this is the problem in your case, but my V1 started beeping continuously, even when parked in a closed garage with no car newer than a ’94. After that (and buying a Lotus with a completely blocked rear window) I went with the Escort.

    I loved the Valentine dual receivers, but Valentine does need an update regardless of what Mike Valentine says. The GPS learning is very effective in cutting out falsing and the speedtrap database has saved me at least once. Valentine also needs some way to modularize the receiver (ala Escort 9500ci) for remote installs.

    • My experience with high-end Escort detectors is as Michael described. I thought it was going to be a problem as I have a Dodge Charger R/T with adaptive cruise control and “the works”, but it simply has not been a problem.

    • Probably true, George. We’ll just sit in our self-running pods watching the Kardashians on the in-dash tv while yapping on the phone and wait until the computer tells us we’ve arrived. And the sad thing: Most people would probably PREFER this mode of driving.

    • It might be useful as a “second” car for those special nights out when you want to overindulge guiltlessly. But that’s about it.

  21. Interesting. I sorta like the idea of adaptive cruise control — not having to constantly adjust the speed as the car ahead slows down or speeds up. Yeah, I know, it does contribute to lazy driving. But on long trips it’s nice to give my right foot a rest, and conventional cruise control systems just don’t work that well when other cars can be seen ahead of you — which is the case almost everywhere I drive. Hearing this, though, I’m kinda glad my new car didn’t come with the adaptive variety.

    Speaking of Virginia, Eric, I’ve always been puzzled by those “Radar detectors are illegal” signs when driving through your state. I don’t sweat it too much, since my detector, though not a Valentine, is supposed to be undetectable by the cops. But I’ve always wondered how actively that law is enforced. And have there been any movements to repeal it? Even in a country full of silly laws, this one seems particularly pointless.

    • What difference does it make if your radar detector is undetectable when your car is continuously marking its territory with electronic piss?

      • Bill, that’s a good point. I wonder if superheterodyne circuitry is as strong as the cars signature or electronic piss that is. Problem is though, you think it’s a bogey but it’s a cop or you’re either slowing down constantly for a bogey. I think we can avoid the situation though since our next vehicle will be a pickup.

    • Years ago, while I was doing truck tractor driveaway, I moved a Fed Ex tractor from Phoenix to LA, that was equipped with Vorad, a forward-only collision avoidance system. I really enjoyed the interaction between the tractors cruise control and the Vorad, which precluded my having to deal with slowpokes until I could go around them. The only problem came from the inside the bix setting at the most conservative part of the range, which kept me from following as close as I would have had to to pass on a two-lane with a loaded trailer. This wasn’t a problem on I-10…


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