Cars with T-tops used to be as common as crossovers are today. No one sells a T-topped car anymore. Why? Well, chiefly because it’s hard to prevent them from leaking. Also (and this is related to the leaking problem) because when you remove about half the structural steel from a cars roof, what remains tends to flex.
Many people don not know that – back in the day, at least – a car’s roof was often a separate piece of metal that was joined to the rest of the car’s body during assembly. For example, the ’78 Camaro I once had. It had T-Tops cut into its roof, which was joined to the body (the upper rear quarter panels) at roughly the level of the door side glass when the glass was fully rolled up. The seam was not visible – at first, when you bought the car. But – over time – the roof would flex and a hairline crack would often become visible.
Meanwhile, the T-Tops began to leak.
It’s important to remember that – back then – the roof section of T-topped Camaros (and Firebirds) was not stamped with the holes for the T-Tops. The holes were cut out after the fact. The work was really crudely done in the early T-topped cars, which were T-Topped after they left the factory by Hurst. Later on, GM improved things with is Fisher (as in Body by Fisher) T-tops, which were better fitted and also had a superior latching system. My ’78 had the crappy latching system with two “snaps” on either side of each top. The later Fisher tops had a single center-mounted lever that latched each top in place. The Fisher tops sealed much better, didn’t rattle as badly as the Hurst tops. But – inevitably – they’d leak, too.
It didn’t bother me, though. Probably because I was in my young 20s and when you’re in you’re young 20s, you don’t care about such things as whether the roof’s leaking a little. Not when you have T-tops and can cruise around with them off when the weather’s fine. It’s hard to convey what it was like but I’ll try. There was something freeing about driving around with the tops off and the wind in your hair. It was like a convertible but better because even with the tops in place, you could look up and see the sky – and the stars, at night. Cruising around – we did this back then – was best done in a T-topped Camaro or Firebird. Your front seat passenger could stand up in the seat and review the troops, too.
I wrecked my ’78 Camaro back in ’87 on the way home from a college party. It was raining and I was feeling good and felt the need for speed. This was not a good idea, as it turned out – and not because of the need for speed but because I was young and broke and the Camaro’s tires were basically bald. That plus a hard downshift and pedal to the floor on a wet road resulted in the Camaro going sideways on the rain-slicked road, then off the road and sideways into a telephone pole. It all happened very fast and in slow motion. There was a thunderous sound, a bright light and then – silence. Other than the sound of the rain in the dark.
I checked to see whether I was dead. I seemed to be alive. The Camaro, however, had reached the end of the road. The passenger side was pushed in almost to the driver’s side. Still, no damage to me – even though I was not “buckled up” and the ’78 Camaro lacked air bags. I left the Camaro in the field and hiked back to where I lived at the time. Later, the next day, I recovered what I could – including the T-tops – and I kept these for years after the car went to Camaro Heaven. I still had them as recently as the early 2000s. When I sold my old house in Northern Virginia, I left the tops in the attic above the garage.
They may still be there, today.
. . .
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My 79 Firebird leaks as if it has T-tops, but without the joy of actually having T-tops. I had to plunk down big bucks for a good car cover to keep the water out. It’s not that fun to drive it in the rain anyway.
I recently bought a very well kept 2005 Chrysler 300 with a sunroof. “Cool!” I thought, because I’d never owned a sunroof. Well, apparently the previous owner never used the damn thing because once me and the wife got in the car and started playing with it (the sunroof), it worked for a couple of times and then it broke. With it half open.
The local Dodge dealership wanted $2700 for a new one. I told them that’s 50% of what I paid for the car! No.
I had them seal it up and make it inoperable. I can slide back the cover to get a view of the sky but I can’t open it anymore. Bummer.
Hi Philo,
I’d be willing to bet your doors are hanging low – assuming you have never replaced the bronze bushings in the hinges. Firebird doors are heavy! They sag over time because the bushings wear and then you have an alignment issue. That plus shrunken window gaskets and – voila! – you have leaks!
Yep, I can tell they are sagging. I have to lift up on the handle on both doors to get them open. I have tracked down to where the water is getting in, and it’s behind the kick panels. Haven’t gotten any further than that.
RE: “It’s hard to convey what it was like but I’ll try.”
IMHO, you cannot ‘convey’ it, it must be lived.
T-Tops.
Convertibles.
No helmet while riding a motorcycle.
Water-skiing.
(Prolly, downhill snow skiing, too. But I dunno, never did it)
However; I DID do sledding. It Is Such A Pure Joy!
It seems to me, that what our Overlords are trying their best to do, is to outlaw FUN & Happiness.
Having a family, is FUN … and Happiness.
Having a stay-at-home-Mom, can be Fun.
Eating food which isn’t poisoned by Big Ag, can be Fun. (…Ever eat a watermelon with children?)
I could go on, but, if you a real, living, human being, I don’t have to go on. You know.
Stay Free. …As you can be.
Ep,
I’ve had a couple of “Holy Chit Mang” slow motion “Incidents” as well….
The weirdest one was almost flipping headfirst into the Corinth Canal in Greece.
Geebus , doing an overnight ferry from Brindisi To Piraeus …
The bus stops at a rest area…all the people flood the “Head”..
I say F…it, run it…thru a grove of poorly tended olive groves
Man…I’m glad I was looking DOWN..!!!!
YOU CANNOT SEE THAT THING AT GROUND LEVEL!!!
Just look at the images….I still have Weird vibes about that thing to this day!
Totally, expat!
The obsession with “speed’ is an obsession born of a kind of neurosis. It is chiefly driver error that results in most “accidents,” and that can occur at any speed.
Their obsession isn’t about, ‘speed’. They want everyone to think that. Their real obsession, is about, Control!
“They” want to control Everything! Think: Karen, on steroids. That, is our Overlords. And, their stupid minions.
Not quite a convertible, not quite a sunroof. You couldn’t leave them at home if you planned to be gone long in case it rained so they had to take up cargo space.
Never really understood them as a result.
I dug them in concept and loved them a lot in principle.
Long live the impractical and just ’cause they’re fun.
T-tops were something I always coveted, but couldn’t afford in a car. So, much like anythings that fly, floats, or freaks, I either rented it, or better yet, had a friend’s I could borrow or go out with that I hang out with and enjoy it. The corvette design of removing the entire center section seemed a better design, but was an even more unaffordable car than the T top cars were, such were the longing’s of my dirt poor youth….Oy Vey!!!
I grew up (to the minimal extent I did grow up) on open cars. Convertibles, roadsters, dune buggies, and Jeeps. T tops were cool, but not even close, and it was apparent by the time I was driving legally that we had lost a great thing when the safety communists made their de facto ban on convertibles. Today, it’s sunroofs, which leak less, and leave the body assembly stiffer than T tops.
The saddest part is that so few, especially women, hate open cars. “It’s noisy”,” It’s dirty” , “My hair will be mussed”, all should be red flags which I sadly didn’t notice when the hormones were running rich and deep.
We’re well into our grey, Soviet era, where cars are cheap ugly sedans/crossovers, bland and in boring colors. You want sporty, comrade? We give graphics.
For a free man, freedom, beauty, and style count for a lot. For a slave, the master wants it cheap and low maintenance.
I owned an MR2 2nd edition with t-tops. They didn’t leak. And my girlfriend loved that car, as did I.
Had a near-death experience in a Mazda. Hit black ice on a freeway at 70 mph, spun off the road, rolled several times, landed upside down in the snow. Just missed a lightpole on the way off the road. Zero injuries among three people, no one wearing seatbelts. Guess we got lucky, probably helped that gov had mowed down all the trees in the median and for 50 yards or so on either side.
There is no such thing as, Luck.
Not a fan in the Pacific Northwet. Anywhere west of the Cascades it is wet from usually mid October to July 5th. “Miami gets more rain than Seattle!” Yea, but in Seattle it drizzles sometimes days/weeks on end, takes almost all year for the total amount. Perfect example of aggregate statistics not giving a true picture. When it’s wet, it’s wet downpour or drizzle.
Daughter’s first car was a T top 78 Camaro, what a mistake. Constantly damp inside, mildew, gack. She pulled an ‘Eric’ in the rain, nosedived into a deep ditch & was OK Camaro not so much. 2nd car, a nice 92 Celica that got t boned not her fault but messed up her neck so much for airbags. 3rd car, another Camaro! Yep, T Top but by 1994 GM actually got them to seal up. That was a great car very reliable survived two hurricanes in Florida during her stint at Disney World – I asked “how’s the t top after all that water?” “Two days only about 1/2 cup on the drivers side floor mat!”
Also note, a 19-22 year old was able to afford fun but reliable used cars on part time jobs during college years 25 years ago. Dad did maintenance and she paid for the cars – told her what my dad told me “want a car get a job!”
The irony is that Southwest WA State is frequently considered to be in “drought” condition.
We lived in Vancouver, WA — “Vantucky!” — for four miserable years, and I remember it being more “damp” than wet, with the nooks and crannies of the north facing part of our rental growing small clumps of moss.
Rain would stop the first week of July in Vantucky, but then the 100s would start in the Portland Metro and continue for several weeks.
Leave a vehicle outside in Western WA, moss will start growing in the window channels especially along the door windows lower wipe/seal area. And the fir tree needles, everywhere. When I replaced the hvac fan in the truck, found out why the recirc door quit working, the plenum was so full of fir needles the door was stuck. All kinds of mold as well will grow in the paint, door jambs.
Our back field in Enumclaw (foothills of the Cascades zone) had areas that were only dry 2 weeks a year, shaded by those &#*a fir trees.
What’s the missing element in this reminiscence?
The insurance mafia. In two respects: 1. Was the ’78 Camaro ‘covered’? 2. Did the mafia impose a surcharge after your crash?
This was a one-car accident. But it could have been a two-car accident, if another vehicle had been approaching in the opposite direction.
That even a skilled driver such as Eric crashed as a result of multiple factors (rain, bald tires, speed … boogie music?) can be used to make a case for mandatory liability coverage.
I’m not making that case here. But since over six million accidents occur annually — a kind of automotive holocaust, if you will — statistically even skilled drivers face a finite probability of being involved in an accident, and thus face a preëmptive demand from the state to insure themselves against liability.
Rainy day, dream away
Ah, let the sun take a holiday
Flowers bathe and I see the T-tops play
Lay back and groove on a rainy day
— Jimi Hendrix, Rainy Day, Dream Away
The relevant question, is how many of those 6 million wrecks a year are repeat screwups? 6 million out of 200 million drivers is not many, very few are serious, minuscule numbers are fatal. And yet the communists continually campaign against drivers with their laws and traffic cops.
I’ve driven since I was about 5, legally for over 40 years, and have had 3 screw ups. Had to put my bike down because my fat drunk passenger leaned the wrong way, and hit 2 cars from behind because they did something really unpredictable. I don’t think I’m too atypical in this. Mandatory insurance is an outrage.
“ and hit 2 cars from behind because they did something really unpredictable”
Typical shit driver blaming the other guy for his own failure.
No mayor, it was your responsibility to be paying attention and to anticipate what the other driver. Ultimately it’s your failure to leave adequate following distance to stop your car regardless of what the lead driver might do.
“ Had to put my bike down because my fat drunk passenger leaned the wrong way”.
I don’t want to even imagine what your Harley mamma looks like. Just more confirmation that you lack good judgement and needed someone else to blame for your own bad decisions.
Of the two, one was a street brawl, where one of the belligerents’ mothers was driving next to them, I was behind watching traffic and the idiots rumbling. Mommy took off and then slammed on her brakes, I was watching everything and bumped into her back bumper.
The other was when a party of 4 were turning left across a 2 lane street/highway, with no approaching traffic, then apparently decided to stop and discuss/argue about the restaurant they were apparently heading for. I also nearly stopped and bumped into the back of them.
Both humbling and learning experiences. Much like being a mayor. Glad to meet a brave and well bred soul clearly better than me.
I WISH! I WISH! This would be the mindset of more of my fellow Aerican’ts who surround me:
“Mandatory insurance is an outrage.” !!!
An outrage!
I never had a T-top car but, a targa x-1/9. It was about the only part of the car that wasn’t sketchy. Porsche did a good job with their targas as well. In all these the stowing of the top was built into the design. I’m not sure the T-top was more, as you pointed out to some extent, than an afterthought.