You have probably heard about what is marketed as Lane Keep Assist (LKAS) “technology,” which uses electric power steering to “correct” your steering. A powerful electric motor turns the wheel left or right to keep your car in its travel lane -so the marketing says. What it actually does is jerk the car left and right because the system’s cameras saw a tire get too close for their comfort to the painted lines in the road.
Or because you failed to activate your turn signal before attempting to pass someone or make a turn off the road.
Never mind whether there was any reason (other than mindless traffic-rule-obeying) to use a turn signal, such as the presence of other vehicles in the vicinity.
There is something else that LKAS and electric power steering can do – and you just watched it do it, if you watched the video above. It can violently jerk the steering wheel left/right and that is obviously not very saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe. But it is an inherent, built-in possibility with electric power steering, especially when it is combined with LKAS. All it takes for something like what you’re seeing in the video above to happen is for the system to glitch.
The electric motors go crazy – and you go into the tree.
BMW is in the midst of a huge recall over just such a glitch. But it’s more than a glitch, as just explained. It is a built-in feature. The system is specifically designed to move the steering wheel to the left and right. Hydraulic power steering systems are just designed to power the steering, to make it easier (less physical effort) for the driver to move the steering wheel. This is an important difference, if you want to be the one entirely in control of your car’s steering.
When a hydraulically assisted power steering system fails, all that happens is it gets harder to steer. It takes more effort to turn the wheel to the left or the right. But the wheel won’t turn at all unless you turn it.
It is impossible, also, for an external entity to exert control over the steering because the system is entirely hydraulic and mechanical. There are no electronic controls and the steering is not connected to a computer. The very worst that can happen is a failure of the power steering pump or a hydraulic line that causes the system to lose hydraulic pressure. You can still drive the car. It is just much harder to steer it, especially at low speeds.
But it will not try to drive you into a tree. It cannot drive you into a tree.
Electrically-assisted power steering always has the potential to do that. It can glitch – as in the case of the BMW electric-assisted system – and it can work exactly as designed. The italics are used to emphasis a truth that is largely unknown, which is that because electrically-assisted power steering is controlled (ultimately) by the vehicle’s computer and because that computer can be controlled externally – via “over the air” instructions transmitted to the computer – control over the steering can be taken over by whomever or whatever has the ability to transmit instructions to the computer.
The take-home point is that you are not the one who is fully in control of your vehicle’s steering, if it is equipped with electrically assisted power steering and LKAS. Just as you are not the one who is fully in control of your vehicle’s accelerator pedal, either. You have the feeling that you are, because when you press down on the accelerator pedal, the engine speed increases and the vehicle accelerates and when you reduce the pressure on the pedal, the engine speed reduces and you slow down. But all of it is controlled by the computer. It causes engine speed to increase – and to decrease. And it is capable of increasing or decreasing engine speed contrary to what you want the engine to do. This capability is implicit in the technology. The computer can make the engine’s speed increase to full throttle and there’s no physical cable you can reach down and pull to stop it from revving at full throttle.
You may not be able to put the (automatic) transmission in neutral, either – because while there is a knob or button and maybe even still what appears to be a grab-handle gear selector, it is the computer that decides whether you’re in Neutral, Park, Drive or Reverse.
Even your brakes are computer controlled now – if you have a late-model vehicle equipped with what is marketed as Brake Assist ‘technology.” The system is sold to people as a saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety system. But the same system that can apply the brakes and stop the vehicle when the driver fails to see a car ahead that’s stopped or a kid running into the road can also stop the car at any time.
For any reason.
This is what comes along for the ride – not just potentially – when you drive a “connected” car with electric – and electronically controlled – steering, throttle, braking and shifting.
. . .
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We, are all, owned.
…I read , some of, the comments.
We, are all, owned.
…That’s it. It’s OVER.
We, are all, owned.
End, of STory.
Yes, we are all owned, Helot. Bend over and submit, you slave. Do not even bother to try and defend yourself. Resistance is futile, so just lay down and accept it all. Sounds like a great way (insert sarcasm) to end. Without a fight, or a care. Rather that one who fights to the end, and goes out kicking a few teeth out of the enemy on their way out.
[…] https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2026/01/07/heres-what-lkas-can-do/ […]
For the geeks on here the NHTSA documents about this BMW screwup.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2025/RCAK-25V857-7854.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2025/RCLRPT-25V857-8946.pdf
I’ve for a while thought a possible event horizon for the nonsense was when the first tinkering dude decided a carb could be improved upon at Bendix in 1957 with the Electrojector fuel injection. That happened a decade before the first foul word “emissions” spewed from a government toady. They just wanted better performance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix_Electrojector
People tend to be afraid of things they don’t understand. It’s not hard to understand this.
I’m absolutely in agreement on a free and competitive market. Shouldn’t be forced to buy “features” you don’t want.
But some of this is the cart following the horse. Bendix and later Bosch were tinkering with things they sensed would be market advantages years before any government toady spewed the words emissions controls. Holley has sold a lot of Sniper kits for hot rods without any government coercion.
Same with electric assist steering and other technologies. No one forced stability control and some of the assistance gadgets initially. They were a feature that helped Volvo and Subaru sell cars.
Did the government really lead or follow the market trend?
Thanks for taking the time to dig out the NHTSA documents!
“ People tend to be afraid of things they don’t understand. It’s not hard to understand this.”
True.
Wow. When did American men become so victimized that they don’t know what features are in their vehicles, how they work, and how to handle them? So afraid of the vehicles and features they willingly purchased and then throwing out the safety card at every opportunity?
It’s more that I don’t care, don’t want to know, and don’t feel the slightest obligation to cram my head full of useless information.
Bottom line, I don’t accept homework assignments from dirtball auto makers. They can kiss my ass.
RE: “Bottom line, I don’t accept homework assignments from dirtball auto makers. They can kiss my ass.”
Ha! Ha! Ha! Either, make it intuitive, or make it so a Cave Man can figure it out. …Or, a Cave Woman, be it as it may.
Fuggin’ re-inventing The Wheel?
Hmmm. . .here’s what BID said just about a month ago regarding this topic (https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2025/12/02/mindlessness-training-wheels/):
“Burn it Down December 2, 2025 At 8:51 am
“The technology could – and almost certainly has – “assisted” some drivers into the ditch. Or into the path of oncoming traffic.”
This is a hyperbolic statement with no proof given to back it. This is just a raw appeal to emotion.
Unsubstantiated hyperbole like this has become so common with “journalism” that it is ridiculous. We rightly mock it when it comes to climate change, COVID, etc. Are we supposed to accept it when it’s advanced to suit our cause?
I’m not a particular fan of ADAS but making hyperbolic claims serves no purpose other than to discredit the underlying (and correct) premise that we shouldn’t be forced into accepting ADAS features like LKA. I fully agree that LKA behaviors should not be dependent on turn signal use.. . . Unsubstantiated hyperbolic claims just make our position against ADAS look foolish. It hinders your message and your reach.”
“Burn it Down December 2, 2025 At 11:06 am
Most LKA systems exert less than 4Nm of steering wheel torque. This level of steering torque is easily overcome by even the elderly. All OEMs have done the human factors studies and have the data to defend their engineering decisions.
The other thing that you are not acknowledging is that with Electric Power Assisted Steering the torque felt at the steering wheel does not mean that there is a corresponding moment at the road wheels. You should know this from your years of driving these features and presumably from your understanding of the technology you write about.
Like you, I’ve spent 30 years driving and developing vehicles. I’ve driven product from all major OEM’s. I’ve driven global products from Europe, China, and South America that you don’t even have access to via the U.S. press fleet. One expert opinion vs another.
ISO 26262 and engineering FMEA’s are implemented to address failure modes that are possible and to implement countermeasures.
You regularly write about not wanting to have your insurance rates set by what damage you might cause. That we shouldn’t be judged by what harm you might cause to others until harm has actually occurred. Then you want to come up with unsubstantiated hyperbole about what LKA might do?
Neither of us likes ADAS. There is plenty to hate ADAS without having to make emotional appeals to what might happen. Isn’t that what MADD did with driving under the influence? Are we to resort to the same unsubstantiated emotional appeals?
Do what you will. Hyperbole may resonate with the audience and readership here but it doesn’t help you to expand your credibility and reach elsewhere. That is a shame because you have so much to say that is worth saying.”
“Burn it Down December 2, 2025 At 11:20 am
The analogy of a buddy tugging the steering wheel isn’t relevant.
This comment is typical of those that don’t understand the details of how the hardware in modern vehicles works. . .”
I’m certain what you are saying is true if you are driving at walking speeds however one of the Drivers in the 2020 Cannonball Run thought he was was going to have to shut down the attempt because of the AMG’s erratic behavior while traveling at speed. One of the other co-drivers pointed out, the reason the car seem to have a “mind of its own” was because the Lane Assist was turned on. Once they figured out how to turn it off, they were able to pick up their pace again. I have experienced Lane Assist on a car while driving US Interstate 40 and it was very irritating but that was driving at US speeds. Here in Mexico, where not all highways are exactly glass-smooth, I drive quicker and I can guarantee, traveling at 180-210 Kph, Lane Assist is dangerous.
Thanks for the repost ML.
“ This comment is typical of those that don’t understand the details of how the hardware in modern vehicles” BID
The video of the BMW recall with the steering instability has absolutely nothing to do with Lane Keep assist further proving the point that about hyperbole, double standards, and not understanding how things work (or don’t).
From the article EP linked regarding the BMW EPAS software “ Fortunately, it’s a relatively simple fix, and so far, it hasn’t caused any major issues that BMW is aware of.”
So there you go, the EPS glitch hasn’t driven anyone into any trees nor is it likely.
NHTSA is well aware of the recall, its root cause, and there has been no stop drive order associated with that recall. But I guess you know better despite your not even knowing what is causing that EPAS problem.
Carry on.
Sure. Nothing to see here. We should all disregard the steering wheel violently jerking back and forth. It’s all perfectly “safe and effective.” Afterall, we’re just not expert enough to determine potential danger no virtually no upside.
That line of argument seems vaguely reminiscent of a certain health psyop that was thrust upon the earth’s population about 5 years ago.
Good grief.
“ It’s all perfectly “safe and effective.” ML
Not my words. Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth. BMW has acknowledged the issue and there is a recall to address EPAS.
Interesting you can’t address the actual argument that the EPAS issue is occurring when the vehicle is stationary and has nothing to do with Lane Keep Assist or the hyperbole of driving cars into trees.
Carry on
Any you find this acceptable?
Are you arguing that this condition could never occur when the car is in motion? Does LKA not utilize the electric power steering motor?
I’m going to answer your question in good faith.
The EPAS instability is most likely due to the controls gain for EPAS being set way too high when vehicle speed = 0 to make the steering effort as light as possible. Americans love light parking effort. High parking efforts result in excessive warranty and customer dissatisfaction. All the OEMs try to minimize parking effort while trying not to degrading road feel at speed.
Cranking up the parking effort gains up (intentionally or unintentionally via software not being validated properly) can result in EPAS instability especially if the wheels are on a low friction surface (ie ice, wet pavement, etc.), in the air when on jack stands or a hoist, and when there is not enough damping of the steering wheel (ie hands off the wheel).
So to address your question, no it isn’t likely to occur while driving because the EPAS control gain is dialed way back when the vehicle begins moving and continues to decrease as vehicle speed increases. Similarly, with the wheels rolling creates drag and adds damping to the steering system. And of course, having your hands on the steering wheel when driving adds damping at that end of the system.
So the bottom line is that what EPAS is doing when stationary doesn’t imply the same thing can or will happen in a moving vehicle.
I’m not defending the BMW issue. It is unacceptable and it will be addressed. It does not automatically or logically follow that it will drive anyone into a tree.
The moral of this story being there are a lot of people here speculating and jumping to conclusions that don’t even understand the basics of when EPAS and LKA are linked, how they are linked, and what risks are, and what the functional safety countermeasures are.
I’m not trying to force anyone to like EPAS. There are some truly awful EPAS systems out there and there are also some awesome systems out there.
I’m just pushing back on all this fake victimization. If you don’t like ADAS (I don’t) then don’t buy it. But when people buy it, don’t bother to understand if it’s even in their vehicles, or to understand what they bought, and what it can and can’t do, don’t expect me to go along blindly with the victimization and crying safety game.
If anyone has suffered real harm from LKA or EPAS – go file a NHTSA complaint, get a lawyer, sue the OEM. Bring the evidence. Use the legal system to your advantage – go after the deep pockets of the OEM. But be warned, simply crying wolf isn’t going to cut it in a court of law.
No one suggests it’s not a problem. BID is just saying that how a control algorithm works and the glitches is understood math.
A major clue is that it happens when parked with zero speed, meaning it’s an instability, some kind of unbounded response that happens at zero speed, which is the inverse of infinity, and would immediately damp the moment you start rolling.
Sure, it’s a bug but it’s not indicative that the system is out to drive anyone into a ditch. It may not have anything to do with lane keeping.
It’s a corner case oscillation or missed test case and that is not unique to electric assisted steering. It can happen due to mechanical design mistakes.
For example there’s a class action suit called Lessin, et al., v. Ford Motor Company, et al, that affects Super Duty trucks where hitting a certain shaped bumped at the right speed will start a death wobble oscillation likely due to a geometry mistake in the suspension.
https://www.classaction.org/media/lessin-v-ford-motor-company-et-al.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRMvjeBFFYU
“ For example there’s a class action suit called Lessin, et al., v. Ford Motor Company, et al, that affects Super Duty trucks where hitting a certain shaped bumped at the right speed will start a death wobble oscillation likely due to a geometry mistake in the suspension.”
Good analogy Anon.
Jeep Wranglers are also susceptible to death wobble. In reality any vehicle with a solid front axle , heavy wheels & tires, and too much compliance (due to wear or design defect) will increase the propensity to experience death wobble.
Just like this article, there is a ton of hyperbole about the issue and even the “death wobble” name itself is hyperbole despite the fact that the vehicle response is unacceptable yet isn’t causing deaths when the steering goes into resonance.
And just like here, we end up with grown men crying like babies about how scared they were and how they almost died despite the vehicle still remaining steerable and under their control even if it’s not pleasant.
Time for American men to man up. Understand what you are buying and its risks. Maintain your equipment. Stop crying wolf.
It’s also important to highlight that the class action covers Super Duty back to 2005.
Ford didn’t add electric assist to the Super Duty until 2017. These trucks are included under the action.
Still, for 12 years it was 100% old school hydraulic power steering with no driver assist technology. Yet there was the instability.
Their bandaid is a new steering damper. That will fix these oscillations. That always has been the case since the first Jeep CJ2A and original Bronco and FJ40 Land Cruiser. Adding a damper does usually solve the death wobble.
I use the term knowledgeably, I’ve had trucks where it happens. But if a damper works then you have not solved the geometry issue and it can start again under some conditions and will return as the damper wears.
I can tell you, when it happened to me that last thing I did was take a hand off the wheel and think to myself I should take a video. It was let up on the pedal and coast until it calmed down.
In reply to BID’s post in which he asserted that “most LKA systems exert less than 4Nm of steering wheel torque”, a reader asked him “How much more than 4 Nm of torque do the other-than-most of them exert on the steering wheel?”
No answer yet. May I have an answer to that question?
So sad that we have a world of information beyond what mankind has ever know, and has free access to . . But cant be bothered to use it.
Let AI help you.
Overview
Lane Keep Assist (LKA) torque feedback varies, but systems like Honda’s can apply up to 80% of steering torque to keep you in the lane, while research models use specific amounts like 1.5 Nm or more, depending on lateral error; it’s a calculated force, not a fixed number, designed to gently nudge the wheel, not wrestle it, with different algorithms providing continuous or threshold-based adjustments to guide you back to lane center.
Factors Influencing LKA Torque
Lateral Offset: The farther the car drifts from the lane center, the more torque is applied.
Heading Error: The angle of the car relative to the lane also influences the correction force.
System Algorithm: Different manufacturers use different control strategies (e.g., constant torque, double-bandwidth, continuous).
Vehicle Speed: Systems typically activate above a certain speed (e.g., 40 mph).
Examples & Ranges
Honda LKAS: Can provide up to 80% of steering torque for significant lane correction.
Research Systems: Studies have tested systems applying 1.5 Nm (Newton-meters) or higher, adjusting based on errors.
General Feel: For comparison, typical real-world steering feedback in cars might be 10-15 Nm, with LKA adding a gentle, guiding force on top of that.
Or feel free to go read up on a general overview of how torque feedback is modeled, simulated, and developed:
https://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/208873/208873.pdf
Neither what you wrote above nor the thesis you linked answers my simple question: “How much more than 4 Nm of torque do the other-than-most of them exert on the steering wheel?”
In dismissing Eric’s concern contemplating a scenario in which a driver (perhaps `an old person with weak grip/strength’) not familiar with the tug LKAS exerts is unsettled by it and over-corrects, you happily informed us that most LKA systems exert less than 4 Nm of steering wheel torque.
That implies that are some systems that exert more than 4 Nm. Why can’t you or won’t you simply tell us how much torque these other systems exert? I’m asking for a number.
Morning, Strait!
I have already posted a reply to BID, but to reiterate: I am someone who is pretty uniquely qualified to testify as to how electric-assist steering/LKAS works in real-world driving as I have driven a vast array of new vehicles – all makes/models – equipped with these systems over the past decade. I can personally attest that the pull of LKAS in some of these makes/models is powerful enough to result in jerky handling, especially during high speed cornering. Having to have to fight the steering interrupts smooth driving at the least; in some instances, the pull is strong enough that it could, in my expert opinion on this subject, result in loss of control.
I submit that the bottom line here is that very few people actually want this “technology” – for the same reason that very few people who can walk want a cane or a wheelchair. Yet LKAS is pretty much standard equipment now in every new vehicle. Why is that?
“ I have already posted a reply to BID, but to reiterate: I am someone who is pretty uniquely qualified to testify as to how electric-assist steering/LKAS works in real-world driving as I have driven a vast array of new vehicles – all makes/models – equipped with these systems over the past decade. ” EP
Well same here. Have you driven these vehicles fully instrumented with data acquisition obtaining steering wheel torque, steering wheel angle, lateral G, heading error, and the camera data to actually have objective data both on real road & on controlled test tracks to compare to your subjective opinions? I have. Maybe that makes me more a more “uniquely” qualified expert than you. It’s not uncommon for one expert to testify vs another’s opinion in depositions regarding these matters.
If there is harm, the courts will sort it out.
“ Yet LKAS is pretty much standard equipment now in every new vehicle. Why is that?” EP
I’m not sure why you would ask this. As an expert you shouldn’t you already know the answer and have shared it with your readers?
Single car accidents with a root cause of unintended lane departure is a leading cause of vehicle injury.
AI / NHTSA:
Lane Departure Warning Monitoring Proven To Reduce Crashes – When …
NHTSA data shows road departure crashes are a significant hazard, making up about 10% of all crashes but 31% of fatal ones, with Lane Keeping/Departure systems showing promise, reducing fatal road departure crashes by around 24% in LKA-equipped vehicles, and LDW systems potentially addressing many single-vehicle crashes by reducing relevant crashes by 11% and injuries by 21% in some analyses, often linked to driver inattention.
As we both agree, the OEMs are now fully beholden and basically captured by the regulatory agencies. The automotive free market no longer exits and automakers are now happy to do NHTSA’s bidding. It’s part of why I left a 30 year career in the industry.
Similarly, from their own self interest, features like lane departure warning, lane keep assist, and lane centering, help the OEM’s defend against litigation where a vehicle unintentionally departs the lane, has a fatality, and the next thing you know the family sues the OEM. The feature combined with the EDR black box data actually helps the OEM prove that the driver wasn’t paying attention and departed the road through no fault of the OEM.
Worse, now that these “safety” features exist, if an OEM only offers them as an option but a customer doesn’t buy it, and then dies in a vehicular fatality, the families sue the OEM for failure to equip, meaning they are suing on the premise that their loved one died because the OEM had the capability to protect but didn’t just because they wanted to make more money by offering the feature as an option.
So the OEM is incentivized to make these features standard whether we want them or not. That is why they are becoming standard and why in The case of some OEM’s it’s becoming more difficult to turn off the feature. Pretty much the same as ESC where “off” isn’t really off, but is a set of raised thresholds to simply keep the feature out of the way, but still active and monitoring in the background to protect the driver and to gather the data to the EDR in the event the driver does something truly stupid.
Before we go there, maybe you would care to discuss how you would go about setting the upper bound torque limit?
For discussion & debate, let’s just say the number is 6.26893 Nm.
How does that mesh with a human factors study of the elderly, how much effort they can exert on a steering wheel, and at what point should they be removed from the road because they are no longer capable of controlling any vehicle whether ADAS equipped or not?
Morning, BID!
I can testify with some authority, I think, on this subject as I have driven hundreds of new vehicles (all makes and models) equipped with this technology. The pull is in some cases substantial enough to alter one’s intended line, especially when cornering. On narrow roads with little margin on either side, this can be unsettling, to say the least.
“Before we go there, …”
It’s apparent that “we” are never going to go there — “there” being your answering my simple question with a real number.
I withdraw the question.
Dude, I gave you a real number. 4 Nm is a real upper bound to the system I’ve actually worked on.
What have you actually contributed to this conversation other than repeatedly asking for proprietary data for all OEMs world wide?
The AI response provided has realistic numbers in it. Apparently reading comprehension isn’t something you are good at. The reality is you don’t even know what the numbers are either and have no background on which to debate them.
Grow up, contribute, stop crying about issues you know nothing about.
You wanted to debate the number but now you want to pretend to disengage as if you have made the superior argument ?
Carry on.
‘When did American men become so victimized’
When women took control of the American and indeed western polity. That occurred around 1970.
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2021/11/14/death-blow/
Sadly Burn, feminism destroyed more than it ever solved. And yet they are still miserable but refuse to look into the mirror. But of course none of their failed results are their fault.
To everyone saying they don’t want lane-keeping consider that one of the things that necessitated electric assist steering was traction control and stability systems.
The driver assist that’s obvious now is a more recent function but cars have had steering column sensors and electronics that assist in less obvious ways for a long time. Toyota, for one, introduced VSC and TRAC in 1998. In their cars even those very early models had the ability to control brakes per wheel and cut engine power based on sensors on each hub (looking for differences in wheel speed), steering wheel angle and a yaw sensor under your center console (looking for a steering wheel angle that did not match the vehicle direction).
So if you’re a budding Luddite and REALLY are worried make sure you get something that pre-dates that stuff, too.
I had a 2004 4Runner that had these things and they are not just irritating but potentially dangerous, too. That thing would kick in during the worst times, like trying to clear an intersection in a snow storm only for it to start locking brakes and cutting power, leaving you a sitting duck. I’ve been driving 4WD in snow for 40 years, sometimes you have to find the traction limit of your tires and that will spin them. The TRAC/VSC as over aggressive should allow for that. I sold that car and went backwards to a 1996 4Runner. But that truck rusted out and so I’m looking for something to replace it now and don’t know what to do.
Anything controlled by software…… Watch out.
Most software seems to be of low quality. Not a big deal when your webpage glitches, but a big deal when it’s steering you where you don’t want to go.
You don’t fly, right?
I wouldn’t.
I don’t. I don’t have a REAL ID either, and I shouldn’t have to use a passport inside the USA. So nope, no planes.
My father-in-law has a newer truck with LKAS and I found out it has self steering capability too. He’s been in the hospital so I have been driving his truck once a week or so, to keep it from sitting too long in the cold.
We were on the way to the hospital in his truck to visit him, and I was showing the wife how it works, and apparently, the super smart AI saw the shadow of the overhead power lines and thought they were street markings and on this straight road, tried to steer us off into the ditch.
“Some there are among us who sing that the Shadow will draw back, and peace shall come again. Yet I do not believe that the world about us will ever again be as it was of old, or the light of the Sun as it was aforetime.”
— J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Good grief, Philo, I am glad you and your wife survived that encounter. I drove a car rental a few years back (Toyota Forerunner) when my older vehicle was getting fixed. It was Winter, snowy roads, etc. Even with the lane-keep-assist turned off, the steering wheel still fought me as I drove where the roads were recently cleared of snow. None of us up here care about the lines on the road at such a time. The LEO’s do not care about the lines: We all drive where the road is clear. But, the Toyota still fought me on it, and even after the “feature” was supposedly turned off.
I’ve had two cars with ‘electric assist’ power steering, both suck. There is a mini mini micro second disconnect between driver wheel movement and electric reaction that drives me nuts. First was a 1999 Pontiac now it’s the 2018 Grand Cherokee.
You can also s**t can rack and pinion, not a fan. Both Alfa Romeos I owned (‘63 and ‘69) had steering boxes, either worm and roller or recirculating ball, no power assist. Perfect driving manners and excellent feel.
Yeah, electrically assisted power steering kills all steering feel, it stinks. Why it happens is simple physics.
In a hydraulically assisted rack, you have some pistons which help you push the steering rack side to side based on your steering wheel deflection, but it’s basically the same as a regular rack and pinion, just has a piston on the rack and some compartments for liquid.
Electric steering assist has a powerful motor attached to the pinion. Since it moves slow, it’s geared. So, when you have some tire “event” that tries to move the rack, the motor resists it, since it’s trying to turn the motor through a gearbox.
Some cars, where steering feel matters, have hydraulic power steering, but the pressure comes from an electric pump. Those feel old school, but only cars like McLaren and Lotus do that, everybody else is pure electric since it’s cheaper. McLaren and Lotus are also unable to provide LKAS due to this, so they’ll be banned in shortly.
Just like alcohol sensors they want to add to vehicles assuming we are all drunk and have to prove our innocence before driving, let’s jump to the next level, the O-J Sensors. Your car will know your blood type and if is senses another blood type eliminating from the steering wheel, petals or seats, it will quickly alert LA Homicide and let them know they found Nichol’s murderer.
Can you imagine, Hans, if there ever comes a day when these “assistant” technologies for vehicles could also detect if you are/were vaccinated against whatever the latest threat is? Such as Convid, flu, what have you? “Oops, sorry, you cannot use your vehicle today, you did not get your monthly booster”. Sounds insane, but then again, this world (and country) went to hell a long time ago.
My newer Grand Cherokee has some form of Active Lane Management or Active Driving Assist. I didn’t even know I had it. was just using auto cruise (which is pretty nice, and works very well), but then I saw another button that had some picture of a steering wheel. Tried it and yes, it’s auto lane keeping something. But it doesn’t work very well, at least for me. It tends to wander back and forth between the ‘lines’ and in the rust belt and those line are there sometimes and sometimes not. I played with it for a while and a low percentage of the time it would blow through a turn at high speed. No way. I never use it.
But what about people that aren’t very ‘smart’ or attentative and just trust the tech? maybe that’s why it seems accidents are getting worse?
‘I saw another button that had some picture of a steering wheel’ — ChrisIN
It’s yet another example of how icons fail to communicate. Whereas ‘LKAS’ would be almost clear, at least to the well-informed.
If only you could hover your mouse cursor over that button to get an explanation in advance. /sarc Maybe there’s an app for that. *rolls eyes*
The danger of LKAS is simply not well-enough known. Friends who have it on their vehicles are not even aware of it, until it “decides” to react.
On our (then new) 2021 Honda HR-V my wife was driving without realizing LKAS was on. She was on a narrow country road, without a painted centerline. This was “trash day” and the collectors had left some of the trash bins encroaching on the right edge of the road. She naturally edged to the left to avoid the bins (no oncoming traffic), and LKAS forced the car back to the right, where the right mirror smashed into the trash bin, causing significant damage to the car’s inadequate plastic parts.
Thankfully, that was the extent of the damage. It could have been much worse. That was the last time LKAS was used, since it is easily turned off in that model.
AEB [Automated Emergency Braking] and vehicle alcohol sensors are two controversial, technologically difficult mandates that remain on the table:
‘Two pending, high-profile vehicle safety policies from the Biden era await federal action. The first is a controversial rule that would require automatic emergency braking (AEB) technology in all new vehicles by 2029. The Alliance for Automotive Innovation sued the Biden administration over the rule last year, claiming technological feasibility issues.
‘The second policy in limbo is a 2021 congressional directive for federal regulators to require anti-drunken driving technology on all new vehicles. Congress wrote in law that a proposed rule should arrive by 2024, but the deadline has come and gone.
‘Bipartisan support for a rule continues on Capitol Hill. There is still fierce opposition, however. Sen. Bernie Moreno, R-Ohio, has emerged as a leading voice on automotive policy and a staunch critic of requiring anti-drunken driving tech amid rising new vehicle prices. His loud hostility toward a potential rule could further stall it in 2026.’
https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2026/jan/06/despite-active-2025-these-auto-policies-remain-on/
For years, I’ve been ridiculing vehicle alcohol sensors. They are not accurate enough to avoid excessive false positives, and probably never will be. Former head of NHTSA Ann Carlson said in December 2023 that there were close to 1bn daily driving journeys in the United States.
“If it’s [only] 99.9% accurate, you could have a million false positives,” Carlson said. “Those false positives could be somebody trying to get to the hospital for an emergency.”
Maff — and gaseous diffusion — are cruel masters. 535 hunchbacked, purblind Congress Clowns can no more defeat them than they can control the tides.
AEB likewise is going to generate false positives — sudden, violent stops for a cardboard box or a squirrel in the freaking road, which in turn cause rear-end collisions … for which the insurance mafia will hold the driver behind responsible.
The US fedgov should STAY THE HELL OUT of designing vehicles. It needs an AEB system to pull the plug on it — which might happen again as soon as January 30. 🙂
Hi Jim,
Yup. To me, perhaps the most objectionable aspect is the presumption that everyone is a “drunk” – and must prove (to a sensor) that they are not “drunk.” Fuck these people. I try to avoid profanity, but it’s sometimes the right way to go.
Passive vehicle alcohol sensors are technologically infeasible. Only an active ignition interlock, requiring the driver (or someone) to blow into a breathalyzer, will do. But the notorious BIL Section 24220 by airheaded bimbo Debbie Dingell-berry (D-MI) requires passive alcohol sensing.
I adamantly assert that an entire auditorium full of PhDs in Chemistry, Physics, and Chemical Engineering cannot make that shit work, now or ever. Cancer and heart disease and war will be ended before that happens. Then we won’t need to drink. 🙂
An auditorium full of PHDs will never make anything work. They will be too busy social climbing and backstabbing and arguing over arcana to even try, and if they ever do produce something, be very VERY afraid.
I don’t need to drink any more than I need a G3 or AR. I’ll still have ‘em.
Breathalyzers are inaccurate and a good lawyer can introduce enough doubt to get their results thrown out if the results are within about 20% over a legal limit. They can trigger false positive if you’re diabetic or hypoglycemic, have acid reflux, just brushed your teeth. And this accuracy assumes the machine is maintained and within calibration in the first place. The road-side ones are considerably worse, they should never be trusted for anything. Those are about as accurate pushing the sidewall of a tire to judge it’s inflation.
My apologies (or not-ha ha), Eric. Your comment reminded me of this short (45 second) clip from “Shawshank Redemption”. Tommy summed it up nicely, as well. 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPDMnHspQjk
Morning, Shadow!
Good stuff; always enjoy watching a well-made clip first thing in the morning!
Hydraulic PS could oscillate or jerk if you don’t burp the air out or you get foaming or the pump surges. No question being a mechanical system its much less likely to go wacky.
Electric in most cars is still an assist, having an electric motor mounted on the rack and pinion or steering column instead of hydraulic pumps and actuators.
It’s steer-by-wire where your wheel is an input and you have no mechanical connection, that’s like driving a video game controller. When it’s steer-by-wire there’s a motor in the wheel that simulates driving and the tactile feeling of driving and a motor moving the steering.
The violent glitching is a serious problem regardless.
You can make electric assist be dumb and just assist rather than try to control. There’s a generation of cars about a decade or so ago that did this before they became “smart” with the driver assist junk. They had simple controllers that didn’t try to be smart or predict anything, they just assisted. Some of them did try to mimic the variable pressure aspect of hydraulic PS, giving more assist at slow speed. It’s not a difficult thing to engineer and you never hear of a 2015 Subaru with this issue despite them, like a lot of cars, having electric assist.
They went electric assist originally because there are advantages in simplifying manufacturing as well as efficiency. Losing the PS pump and putting the load all on the alternator can net you a few HP by lowering the drag on the engine.
With electric assist if you pull (or blow) the fuse the steering gets heavy just like it used to without PS. Everything still works.
The only cars I can think of with actual steer-by-wire is the Infitini Q50 and Q60 and the Cybertruck. The Q50 still has a mechanical backup that uses a clutch to engage if the assist malfunctions.
In steer-by-wire pulling the fuse makes the whole system stop working.
In the case of these new X3s it’s a hybrid and they have control issues. It’s supposed to ramp up assist at slow speed and dial it back at fast. That opens you up to loop tuning issues and glitches.
GM had problems about 10 years ago with their electro-hydraulic PS doing the opposite, instead of going wild it went dead at slow speeds making steering difficult.
https://www.aa1car.com/library/steering_power_electric.htm
Good info Sunner, thanks
LKAS is very creepy….it is much worse than ASS. And the stories about people who get trapped in her Tesla when the battery died because the door would not unlock? But thanks for the reminder that our car could be hacked. You may have finally convinced me to look for an analog car.
Look up Michael Hastings cause of death.
After watching that video of the steering wheel in a BMW violently jerking, all I can say is YIKES. And we’re to belieeeeeeeeeeve that newer vehicles are saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe compared to ones built prior to, say, circa 2005. People have a weird definition these days of saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe. Why, they probably even think that pulling a few vaccines off the CDC’s decades long list of “Recommended childhood vaccinations” isn’t saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe. I hear the hysteria already from some, including politicians, that children will DIE without numerous vaccinations that they probably don’t even NEED in the first place.
A few years ago I asked an old timer nurse if the younger generation-who received a chicken pox vaccine-were still at risk of contracting shingles later in life. Come to find out they are. So much for there being an advantage to a jab over natural immunity. It makes me glad I itched and scratched my way through chicken pox and measles.
Viruses are pure fiction.
In the fiction they’ve already told us what this technology is really for. Starting with 2002’s Minority Report when Tom Cruise’s car arrests him, to the more recent Upgrade from 2018 wherein there is a police pursuit ONLY because the protagonist is driving a classic car. The police then remotely commandeers a nearby smart car in an attempt to end the chase. I’m sure there are plenty of other examples from Hollywood, but life is short and art is long.
Abdicating your control in the single most dangerous thing you do every day is not for convenience (that’s just how it’s marketed) but control.
Kind of like the car in ‘Demolition Man’ where the car would print out the ticket right there. At least Sylvester Stallone had a fitting use for them.
It’s predictive programming.
“It can violently jerk the steering wheel left/right and that is obviously not very saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe.”
Yeah… fuck that.
I am very surprised at how powerful some of these control motors are….
The “Lane keep assist” in my 7 year old Fpace is just a bit of nagging on the steering – which has been shut off since the day I bought the car by pressing one button…. But whenever I rent a new car, I realise the “feature” is really evolving – for one no fucking clue how to turn it off, and not worth the bother if its only for a day drive…..
One of the more dangerous aspects is – the way it pull actually startles me! Im a guy who learnt to drive in Karachi on barely legal cars (even for there) – the wheel pulling sharply meant you hit a dog or brick or your wheel is in an open manhole or something !! You have the instinct to stop and check what you did!
What happens if you pull the fuse? Probably a lot more effort at rest but can you still steer the car? If so then just fit a switch into the circuit and if it fails you can shut it off and steer manually to get off the road?
I’ll just add two words:
Michael Hastings
Ditto…
It’s stuff like LKAS why I won’t be buying a new or even newer car. I’ve said for years just wait until someone hacks all these cars to go full throttle and make a 90 degree turn. In the current geopolitical climate it could be anyone including our own beloved GovCo that does this.
Let’s not forget about John Deer bricking all those tractors that got “moved” to Russia. I’m sure that eventually they were able to get them running again but what happens if they did something like that here? An Edsel might be safe but probably not anything newer than ten years old.
If by some chance my next car has push button start/ stop I will be fitting a manual electrical shut off switch as an emergency shut off for the fuel pump. Crazy? Probably but if anyone saw the video of that car where the engine went full throttle and you couldn’t shut the engine off might think different. Although I’m curious if the driver tried to put it in a lower gear to minimize how fast it would go but as the computer would probably have shifted the gears anyways that might not have helped.
Forgive me, Eric, for thinking this is down right creepy. The first video of the BMW steering wheel jerking and jolting as though it is having a grand mal seizure is bad enough. Your video reminds me of that old saying that “if you’re not paranoid, you’re not paying attention”. How very convenient it would be for someone (computer hacker, government?) to “decide” when it is your time, or decides that you have not had said shots, or stayed in line (and not driving, either), and steer you head-long at 100 miles an hour into a tree? Or steer you into oncoming traffic? Gee, the possibilities are endless. All accidental, I am sure.
Well Shadow. In science fiction the single air car “accident” is semi common place. So if only a couple “accidents” occur no one notices. A couple thousand in one day? The cats out of the bag then; but what do you do then? Lock down the whole country until you solve the problem? Hmm, sounds familiar doesn’t it…
I agree, Shadow –
It’s not paranoia, either. It is objectively true fact – insofar as what the “technology” is capable of doing.