Things are not looking good for Harley Davidson. Particularly for people who work for Harley Davidson – lots of whom are, apparently, not going to be working for Harley Davidson much longer.
According to the Milwaukee Business Journal, HD plans “headcount reductions” as part of an imminent “reset.” The article says that HD’s new CEO Artie Starrs “will be ‘addressing this mismatch head-on’ between corporate overhead, manufacturing capacity and overall operating expenses and the volumes of demand the motorcycle maker is seeing.”
What that means is Harley isn’t making money selling motorcycles – especially the electric ones (i.e., the LiveWire).
It hasn’t been making money selling them for at least a couple of years now. The company’s main source of positive cashflow is financing the sale of bikes – which is not quite the same thing as selling bikes. And merchandise – jackets and such – as well as licensing rights to the HD brand.
“We are conducting a rigorous, end-to-end review of our cost base and operating expenses, supported by third-party specialists. Our current corporate overhead, manufacturing capacity and overall operating expenses are built for materially higher volumes than today’s demand, and we will be addressing this mismatch head-on,” Starrs told the MBJ.
Nothing about the why behind of all of this – which is simply that Harleys are, for the most part, expensive old men’s bikes. When was the last time you saw a guy in his early 20s on a new Harley? I cannot remember the last time I saw one. A couple of years go, I did some work on an old Harley for a neighbor. I needed some parts to get the bike running, so I went to the local HD store in my area. The guys there were all middle-aged or older than that. The vibe was entirely different than the youthful vibe at the Kawasaki/Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki dealer I go to get stuff for my bikes. I don’t own a Harley; not because I don’t like them but because I cannot afford one – and I am not a guy in my young 20s anymore, either.
At the Kawasaki/Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki dealer, $10,000 will buy you a formidable sport bike, which is what most guys in their 20s (and 30s) like. Kawasaki and Honda, et al also make much more expensive bikes – including big touring bikes such as the Goldwing – but the point is that isn’t the only type of bike they sell.
Harley isn’t going to save itself by shedding staff. It’s not going to survive by selling merch and living off the interest it earns financing a dwindling number of transactions to a dwindling buyer demographic that is aging out of motorcycles. A guy in his mid-50s might buy one or two more bikes before he’s too old to ride bikes anymore. For Harley to have a future that extends beyond say the next ten years – or even five – it has got to get buyers in their 20s and 30s into the family because those guys will be buying bikes for the next 30 or 40 years.
That demographic was once Harley’s main demographic. The Hells Angels described by Hunter Thompson and depicted by Marlon Brando in The Wild One. Here’s what Brando said about the Harley he owned as a young man:
“It still pleases me to be awake during the dark, early hours before morning when everyone else is still asleep. I’ve been that way since I first moved to New York. I do my best thinking and writing then. During those early years in New York, I often got on my motorcycle in the middle of the night and went for a ride – anyplace. There wasn’t much crime in the city then, and if you owned a motorcycle, you left it outside your apartment and in the morning it was still there. It was wonderful on summer nights to cruise around the city at one, two, or three a.m. wearing jeans and a t-shirt with a girl on the seat behind me. If I didn’t start out with one, I’d find one.”
His ’70 FLH Electra-Glide sold for a quarter-million about ten years ago. But what did it sell for a half century ago? How’s $1,695 grab you? That’s about $14k in today’s watered-down dollars. But it’s still far less than the base price of even the least expensive new cars. Today, a full-size Harley costs more than many new cars – which is why young guys can’t afford them anymore and older guys have to finance them. 
What might save Harley is what’s successfully resurrected previously gone-out-out-of-business British bike brands such as Royal Enfield – which got bought by the Indians (the India Indians) who brought back under $10k bikes that look great and are also fun to ride. But the main thing is the under $10k part. A big Harley touring bike is also fun and looks great but neither matters to a young guy who knows he won’t be able to afford one until he’s no longer a young guy – by which time he probably won’t be in the market for a bike anymore.
. . .
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It’s terminal. HD has run out of brand capital as boomers age out. I am gen x and have been riding since the late 80’s. I am/was there current demographic and don’t know anyone that wants an overpriced, outdated, heavy, and slow bike. They are considered old man bikes around here…that won’t get out of the way.
Amen, Local –
The only guys I see riding Harleys are old (usually fat) guys. Not that there is anything wrong with being old – we all get there – or fat (that happens, too). But when your brand is seen as the old, fat guy’s brand young guys steer clear. And old, fat guys aren’t going to be buying bikes 20 years from now.
You got that right, Eric. Old Fat White Guy is definitely not in vogue right now!
Back in the day, people bought motorcycles because they were cheap transportation. Yes they were risky, & everyone knew it. But it was driven by necessity (which is why it became something of a way of life) and a culture that was a great deal less risk-averse than today’s. The “cool” factor came along a little bit later, sometime in the post-WW2 era. Back then you could get a really cheap Harley (or maybe an Indian) from war surplus, and live on the edge. Of danger, and poverty, and polite society.
Today it’s pretty much just as dangerous as ever, but that doesn’t appeal to people like it used to. Society has fragmented so much that “biker” is nothing more than another subculture out of many (which is mostly a good thing). It’s supremely expensive and/or difficult to get into, it isn’t necessarily cheaper, and it has to compete with things like bungee jumping. No one rides out of necessity, it’s something dentists cosplay on weekends when the weather’s nice.
If you want to get into it & are low on cash but capable of turning a wrench, get one that’s been wrecked and rebuild it or go through the classifieds hunting for a deal.
The most urgent thing is to watch the LEFT HAND turn in front of you, amongst other things and always know where the horn is whether a bike or car.
One thing HD did which set me off was in the late 80s and the Blockhead was out and being pushed a lot. I still run a Shovel. I ran into a problem with the Shovel and called the local dealer. Sure, bring it in and we’ll check it out. I roll up a few hours later and the mechs walk out. Whoa! That’s a Shovel, we can’t work on that as it takes special tools. What? A 9/16ths and a 5/8th? What’s special about that? Anyway, the shop wouldn’t touch it so I learned how to fix it myself. Took a bit, but I did it and never looked back. Never bought much HD stuff after that.
Id love a shovel, they look cool as hell but I inherited an 86 fxrd blockhead. I get you cant really pull a jug roadside, but its still pretty easy to work on in your garage and should be for the dealer. That said, I dont see myself ever getting a new harley. Ive had it almost 10 years now among other old bikes, and I’m in my late 30s, their prime age group. I’ll probably just rebuild it, maybe add a 6 speed with a kick start and new radio, but those are the only things on the want list. Without all that, its still a great bike even being slow on the highway.
When they punted Buell in 2009, I was pretty sure we would be here at some point. Buells were starting to get really interesting at then. I bought one in 1995, and that was too early. It was a fun bike, but had lots of issues. Throughout the 00s I spent a lot of time on my friend’s XB11 when I traveled to California, and it was a very solid and enjoyable bike. He rode it to over 50K miles with no problems at all; lots of tire replacements and one new drive belt. . He only sold it when he stopped riding much around 70. The rationale for dropping Buell was that sport bikes require a lot of R&D, and on the cruisers we just have to update the paint jobs. I’m paraphrasing, but that was the basic message. It doesn’t sound like a recipe for long term survival. The next milestone that caught my attention was when they started building trikes. That’s an acknowledgement that they knew their base was aging out. I figured the next move would be H-D Caskets and urns. Then, electric bikes. That’s worked out as well as the cars have.
They traded on nostalgia, building bikes that looked like the 40s and 50s. But there is no market anymore that was alive when those were around, and they don’t interest young people. I think it’s a shame, but let’s be honest, it’s also earned. When you hire these ivy league assholes to “drive up our market cap” and pander to the woke mob, and care nothing for the product, this is what you get.
Correction: The bike I spent a lot of time riding was an XB9. Getting old.
Here are a few more reasons why H-D is in quite a pickle:
Dealer experience: I know a few younger folks who have gone to Harley dealers, intent on buying a bike, and no one would talk to them. Since they didn’t fit the image of a Harley rider, they were basically ignored, if not, in fact, told to buzz off. They went down the street to the Royal Enfield, Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/BMW/Ducati store, and were met with friendly folks who actually sold them bikes that they liked. I guess that is part and parcel of the image thing: to sell the idea that you are lucky to even be allowed to own one, which you tend to see in products that are often wildly overpriced and under-performing: You have to act like the customers are annoying you and even saying hello is a waste of your valuable time. This however, does not work in tough economic conditions, in which “toys” are the first things people cut out.
-Demographic shifts, part 1: When all your 20- and 30-something buds who are all on Japanese sport bikes, or even a bit older on something like a BMW dual sport, and you’re riding a Hog, well, you’ll
stick out, and not in a good way. The Japanese have really done a good job of selling this whole manga-culture rice-racer crotch-rocket idea to young folks today. And you know what? It looks like they’re having a lot more fun than the bitter angry belligerent alter kockers riding in “rolling blunder” with MAGA flags-a-flying and protesting.
-Demographic shifts, part 2: As a society, and this is especially true of the younger generations, we have become safety-conscious, risk-averse homebodies. Some of it is economic: overall motorcycle sales have dropped and pretty much leveled-off since the recession of 2008. People just can’t afford to drop 20 G’s on what is essentially a toy that can’t be used a lot of the year outside of Florida and the Desert Southwest. Some of it is fear of getting hurt: If you or anyone you know is a biker, you probably know someone who’s been in a serious accident—a problem made worse by screen addled and senile drivers. The whole “cocooning” thing made worse by the Covfefe Virus also isn’t helping.
-Corporate issues and poor management: As with many other union-made American motor vehicles, Hogs aren’t as reliable as European or Japanese bikes, even though they often cost more. The company is loaded up with debt, in order to buy back shares and prop up the share price by increasing the dividend yield. This is a snake eating its own tail and not sound financial management. Among other things, they are hobbled by pretty high union wages and a lot of aging infrastructure, not to mention production capacity that exceeds demand. Oh, and the staggering billions in debt the board took on to cook the books and get their stock-option bonuses.
If, not when, H-D goes bankrupt, it could result in freedom from this debt and onerous union contracts, thus lowering their overall cost basis and raising their per-bike profit margins. They still would have a niche market and high-priced bikes, but they could make a living with that business model, once freed of their debt and overhead burdens.
We shall see.
I meant when, not if. Curse you, autocorrect!
Harley was DONE when they introduced the rainbow edition sportster, and held tranny reading hours for little kids at Harley corporate headquarters. Last year I was riding the canyons into the desert (berago) last year and saw 30-40 new harleys sitting in a parking lot in front of a harley labeled semi truck. Harley was there for a carpet munching lesbo fest the weekend before. I’ll keep my rice burner.
There’s much truth there, nightdipper –
Most men have no interest in being associated with that sort of thing. Particularly men who ride motorcycles.
TRUE STORY on why I got a Harley Sportster. Little corny but true.
I was returning home late one night and took the main highway which was uphilll home at one point when merging in was a Harley rider on a Sporster and I could hear the rumble from that engine and it all looked so cool, I was hooked. Even the cops on Harleys looked cool as they passed.
Guess what? Several months later I found one that was incredibly in good shape and the guy was leaving the State and I saw all the bikes there and was hoping that was the one and it was! I bought it on the spot.
And guess what else I did? The same thing I saw the other Sportster rider on the freeway at night. I took it up that same busy highway (illegal as I did not have a license for it but could not wait) and could not believe the amount of cars coming up and going the same speed as me. I knew what they were looking and admiring because it looked so cool at night with the rumbling engine.
That’s when I notice a young chick looking lovingly through the rear window as they slowly passed me. LOL! (Not the first time).
Hi Heeny,
A buddy of mine up in Northern Va had a chopper. The thing was hell on wheels.
Vespa: “I get 80 miles to a gallon!”
Harley: “I get laid.”
It isn’t because the youth won’t buy Harley’s. The youth aren’t buying motorcycles at all.
Hi Daniel,
I dunno. I see a lot of guys in their 20s and 30s in my area on sport/naked/adventure touring bikes.
I don’t. I just see very old dudes riding very loud old Harley’s.
There was a time when Harley Davidson was a motorcycle company that also made T shirts. Today, they’re a T shirt company that also makes motorcycles.
Bingo. The profit margin on H-D branded halter-tops made in Honduras or Bangladesh for pennies and sold at dealerships for $100 is unreal.
Many people love Harley; it’s an American tradition.
Going woke was not a good idea…
Harley making a battery powered bike? Sounds like another episode of Butt Lite.
I have a AMF Sportster and IMO the BEST Harley ever made in looks and style next to the Electraglide. I just put a different seat and sissy bar on it and BANG it looks so good now. I had people staring at me, chicks looking back, a guy came up and asked what bike it was at a street light, no less.
All Harley had to do was keep improving the line but instead did massive changes to it so it no longer resembles a Sportster. Ukcf what people think, they’d just want one.
I wanted to attend a Harley event and tell the owner back then (forgot his name) this is how you build it but it needs technical improvement and point out where.
Those old sportsters always have the best sound.
There was NEVER a sound like a Harley Sportster with glass-packed mufflers. It made such a DEEP rough but smooth sound at idle or at pick-up speed.
NONE LIKE IT to this day! Just like they said you have to hear a V-12 Ferrari screaming you have to hear a Sportster back in 1975 at least.
It was fun just driving the thing all over the place like that. I once past a bunch of guys on the side of the road with all their head poked under the hood and when I past I could see all their heads pop out looking at me. LOL!
I used to run a 67 Sportster. It was set up to compete with the Triumphs with shifting on the other side. A bit awkward at first, then only a problem if I went stupid and did my TT racing. Yes, it was a great machine. I sold it about 10 years back for a fair price. Also have an 81 FLHS. That is one nice ride if you like traditional. 80″, 4sp, stripped out Glide with wire wheels. I like traditional. It ain’t fast, but I look good on it.
I have a rule for bikes — never have one you can’t pick up when it falls over.
There is a technique for weaker people to pick up heavy bikes that even chicks could do it. It’s on Youtube.
Basically you are walking backwards at the bike to pick it up. Easy peasy….
The only Harley I’ve ever owned is my 2003 883 Sportster. I traded a unfinished kit car project for it, thinking it would take up less space and be an easy flip.
Two things happened, it turns out the Harley fags sneer at 883 Sportsters as chick bikes, so I couldn’t sell it easily. And I found out that I really like it. It’s just fun, a naked bike with a neat rumble.
It’s not a highway bike, but I don’t ride motorcycles 80mph on the interstate, it’s too windy and noisy and fatiguing. But for a quick rural half hour to hour ride, it’s great. Throw on a pair of sunglasses and a light jacket (no lid laws around here) and enjoy the ride. And that sportster even works pretty well on gravel and dirt.
I just don’t see spending car money, or even half car money, on a bike. The dot Indians get this, and the Japanese mostly do. Every American company run by MBAs is screwing the customer out of as much as they can. So good riddance.
“turns out the Harley fags sneer at 883 Sportsters”
My high-school friends bought Harleys after we got our first jobs out of college (2001 to 2003). We were scattered across several states but got together each summer on a reunion “Men’s Rip” riding all over Appalachia. Camping and bar hopping and camping some more. Wonderful times.
One of our guys had kids so he rode a used sportster so he could get out on 2 wheels and not go into debt. Some D bag threatened to “kick that f*g bike over” at one central PA bar parking lot. He said that not noticing the three 25 year old 6’4″ friends we were riding with.
Old SOB changed his tune quick once he did notice.
HD can crash and burn for all I care. I miss my ride, but HD corporate was always working angles to squeeze every penny out of their customers.
I have a good friend who rides Harleys. Older used ones, though. He’s 55 and has been riding since our college days, when he stated on a Rebel 250 (of course) and slowly moved up for 35 years. He still lives back in Ohio.
I never caught the street bike bug, only having ever owned one, a Suzuki GS250 that I started on. I played around on dirt bikes as a kid but I moved to Boise after school so dual sport and now ADV hooked me. There’s a bazillion miles of dirt roads criss-crossing the west to explore.
And that’s really the crux of the problem. Like the Mustang dilemma in a recent article. Set aside the economics and politics of the market and just focus on what is actually popular with middle age buyers. It’s adventure bikes that I see the vast majority of my peers on even when they don’t ever leave pavement. Why? I don’t know. Image maybe. They’re comfortable, easy to handle, you can pick one up by yourself.
Harley as a company missed the boat. Harley as an image is it’s own worst enemy. Too much attitude, even to other riders.
But just consider the ADV space. So many choices.
Those with more than $10,000:
BMW GS
KTM Adventure
Triumph Tiger
Husqvarna Norden
Honda Africa Twin
Ducati Desert
Those with less than $10,000 (roughly):
Yamaha Tenere (what I ride)
Kawasaki KLE
Suzuki DR650
Royal Enfield Himalayan
CFMoto Ibex
Forgot to mention the most important point. Those manufacturers also don’t put all their eggs in a single basket. They offer enough models to suit all sorts of riders and pocketbooks, which is sort of the key to surviving as a business. I’d definitely look at a Pan American but not at $27,000 when compared to the BMW and KTM.
Sorry to spam this thread ,but I have a rare day off and I miss riding 2 wheels.
If anyone needs a vicarious 2 wheel adventure, check out Long Way Round. It is a documentary series featuring Obi Wan Knobi and his buddy riding BMWs around the globe flowed by a film crew. Pell Mell adventure at its finest. Motorcycle trip from London to NY city, the long way across Europe and Asia, through Canada to the US.
It really gets started in episode 3.
I would post a free link but don’t want to displease our host.
Hi Turd,
It’s cool; I know you’re not spamming!
https://moviesjoytv.to/tv/long-way-round-33964
Awesome. Thanks Eric.
Keep your ad blockers on before you click that.
Lots of good free content from Netfux and Amazog but “free” always has a cost.
Under foreign control and overpriced by half no thanks
Probably too late – but as the engine design/vibe control improved starting with the “RubberGlide” frame & engine mount early 80s then the EVO all aluminum sleeved cylinder motor mid 80s they should have either gone shaft drive or get the belt outside the frame. At least do this for the Electraglide touring bikes.
Still using the same setup from the really early days, when it was chain drive at least you could replace the chain without removing stuff. Belt drive? No master link means the primary drive case comes off then the swingarm has to drop THEN you can replace the belt. This is hours of work. Also early belt drive the forward sprocket used the same real estate as the chain sprocket but of course much wider meaning the load was out away from the shaft splines. Many times the sprocket nut would work loose then the now wobbling belt sprocket would wipe its splines hopefully before wiping the shaft splines.
They’ve been hamstrung by tradition (can’t piss off the bikers) now it’s late in the game good luck. Sparkey 37 years of Harley ownership. I’ve had a lot of fun and can’t beat a Road King full size but windshield only touring bike for long distance comfort. Way more nimble than people realize too. Just don’t tip a new one over, you’ll need 3 men and a mule to get it upright. The M8 motor is a great improvement but the big bikes are heavier than the priors, a lot heavier.
I’m not going to join in on the Harley-hate. I’ve been riding half a century this year, almost daily, and I’ve had Harleys, Hondas, Yamahahas, Kaws, Triumph… and so on. They’ve all had their good and bad qualities. At least they’re not cages.
My realization that motorcycling in the US is in trouble was about a decade ago when I bought my current bike. I got in touch with my five nephews and told them that the first one to show up at my house with a learner’s permit could have my ‘03 Honda VTX-1300. Great bike. No one showed. No interest.
Harley’s corporate leadership sux, and has for a long time. But my admittedly very limited sample indicates that young guys don’t much care about riding at all. The few I’ve known who did the crotch-rocket thing did it for only a few years, and then talked about it for the next decade, during which time they never throw a leg over a bike. I think the era of the life-long biker is done.
Of course Harley will be among the first to fall. The largest animals always die first when food is scarce. And if bikers (riders, whatever) are the food in this metaphor, it’s getting scarce.
‘Harleys are, for the most part, expensive old men’s bikes.’ — eric
Decades ago, Harley cast its lot with buyers who are now irascible old boomers — like the bearded relics in the still photo just below the YouTube link above — and their skank girlfriends.
How that’s workin’ out for Harley?
No one in the Gen X or younger demographic wants to be seen within ten light-years of these cantankerous old cretins. Harley Davidson couldn’t give their bikes away.
As a figure from Harley’s salad days, Alfred E Neuman, used to say, ‘WHAT, ME WORRY?’ Carve it on Harley’s tombstone.
Well he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys
He said, I’ve got no further use for these
I see Angels on Ariels in leather and chrome
Swoopin’ down from heaven to carry me home
And he gave her one last kiss and died
And he gave her his chopper
To ride
— Richard & Linda Thompson, 1952 Vincent Black Lightning
I think my favorite m/c song out there.
Spot on Eric. I’ll add some.
To me, it’s the case of poor management. The current crop of Master’s degree guys are taught one thing only. Financial armageddon, or make $ no matter what. Wall street stuff. They have zero knowledge on how to sell shit. I know cause I deal with them, and they suck. I’ve hung up the phone on many with a message “call me when you figure out how to help my Comp. sell stuff.
Their cheapest bike is 10K called Nightster. Has their new 975 Rev Max engine. Very good. It was supposed to replace the Sportster. I don’t think it’s done well.
IMO, they were smart to get into the very hot (was) adventure bike market with their Pan American 1250. I bought one (20K), and it blew me away how good it is compared to the market leaders BMW, KTM, etc… Still own it. This market shifted to middle-weight adventure bikes, and they canceled their version that was supposed to be with that very good Nighster 975 engine. Dust off the plans and make it.
Overseas, not USA:
They currently make a china-made by QJ Motors a X350, under $5K. I don’t like it.
They currently make a India-made X440 by Hero, under $5K, I don’t like it.
There are rumors that a sub-$6K is coming to USA, probably the X440 or a version of it?
many other Manuf. have a big jump on them in this sub-$6-8K market, and I don’t know if their’s will solve their problem. What they need is to get people in the dealers, excited about something. My Pan America 1250 got me excited and got me in the HD dealer for the first time in my long motorcycle life. And guess what? Their big expensive bikes caught my eye.
One thing is true, that their salesman are more professional than the typical bike salesman. Why? Because they make more $ with their typical +20K bikes. Professional is probably not the right word, but they are better.
BTW, I bought a sub-6-7K bike, a Triumph 400X made by Bajaj in India. It was almost a WTF buy, and it surprised me how good it is.
Best of luck to HD, I hope they figure it out.
It’s union labor that, just as every other industry, killed Harley. It will be case studied in business school for decades. And nobody will learn. The unions will ruin the country.
I was a biker. In fact my first car was a bike. I rode my motorcycle up the elevator at Michigan State University and kept it in my dorm room during the winter. No my r/a did not like that one bit!
But at the same time that Reagan and the nhtsa protected Harley they created some of the best Japanese bikes that I’ve ever had. In fact one of the funnest bikes I ever had was Honda’s cb700sc, Nighthawk “S”, which was a 700 CC inline 4 air-cooled shaft drive! That thing was a monster! It had the quickest pickup of any small bike and that shaft drive meant it was quiet and un-messy! Do you think a guy who drives a bike like that is ever going to buy a harley?
That and the fact that most of the bikes I’ve ever owned each cost $1,500 or less. And we’re talking a lot of bikes over the decades! A buddy bought a used Harley Deuce from another buddy about 15 years ago and it was a $30,000 bike. Now he could afford it cuz he was working construction and didn’t have a wife or kids or anything like that but it was the price almost equal to what I paid for my home in the same decade!
Harley allowing for a foreign CEO has or is going to end up the same as NYC electing a moslem mayor. It does not end well for anyone concerned.
Do I care? No. I gave up biking a long time ago just about the same time that they started giving 16-year-old girls little handheld devices that they could keep in touch with all their lil girlfriends at the same time they were operating Mom and Dad’s 4,000 lb death missile! Yeah, (God forbid) I may die in a car collision but it won’t be while I’m on a motorcycle for sure!
Union issues for sure……..
I loooooved that Nighthawk S………. but never owned one.
I owned a Wide Glide and a Buell at the same time. The Buell was so much fun. But HD dropped the brand. It never caught on but it had so much potential. Not quite a naked, not quite a sport bike. Lots of tourqe and nimble. I even took it off road for some light trail riding. HD orporate gave it No support, and the regular HD riding crowd scorned it. Strange little niche bike that I regret selling.
I’ve even owned and ridden the AMF/Harley enduros of the 70’s, they also weren’t bad bikes. Had Harley “lowered itself” and kept making such bikes, it would have done more for the bottom line than all the overpriced accessories.
But I do think my Kawasakis were better, and the Honda SL’s and XL’s were definitely better made.
Hi Eric,
The Japanese made several cruisers over the years that were head and shoulders above anything that HD produced.
I always thought that the first generation Honda Valkyrie was pretty cool and reliable. Too bad it was as heavy as a Harley though.
Anon
I have never had the desire to own a Harley. Geezer cruisers all the way. Same with Cadillac. Only the generation before mine thought they were cool. … and thats the problem. They arent cool anymore.
They are now brands of old.
They did nothing to speak to my generation as they knew my folks had all the money, not me. Guess who has the cash now? Fcawf Harley.
Same here, J –
I have ridden Harleys. They’re ok. Too big, heavy and slow (mostly) for my tastes. A Honda Goldwing is also big and heavy but that mutha can move – and it handles, too. Also, it’s a Honda – and so it can be counted on to not break down. I have a 43-year-old Honda that I ride more often than most of my other bikes. The thing just runs. And runs…
Girl in bar: “What are rebellin’ against Johnny?”
Brando: “What do you got?”
When the intoxicating spirit of freedom against the establishment becomes woke compliance, you are testifying against yourself.
The first scene of the TV show “Then Came Bronson” with Michael Parks he is a reporter in an establishment newsroom who gets a rough talkin to by his overbearing boss, and Parks quits. As he rides out town at a stop light he talks to guy in a car who ask “Taking a trip? Where are you going? Parks: “wherever I end up”.
As George Strait once sang:
I ain’t got a dime
But what I’ve got is mine
I ain’t rich
But Lord, I’m free
Amarillo by mornin’
Amarillo’s where I’ll be
Goodbye Harley Davidson, you sold your soul for compliance to a tyrant (Biden) and a couple of future pieces of silver (EV’s are the future).
Other than the e bike failure something else seems to me to be a reason younger guys don’t like Harley’s? The maligning of the Sportster. Which the company helped to do. When I was in high school and college that was a bike I wanted. Now? All you here is that it’s a “chick bike” and if you’re a guy riding one you’re obviously gay! Get your ass on a monstrous 2 wheeled land barge to prove your masculinity! lol Imagine if that air cooled bike was developed over the decades with its original intent? In the 60’s it was the Hyabusa of motorcycles. Just my .02
Hi Rob!
Here’s my 50 cents, as a long-time motorcycle rider/owner: Harleys were once upon a time simple machines that lended themselves well to being modded by the owner as well as wrenched on b y the owner. Those two things appeal to young guys who like motorcycles. I think such a bike would appeal to them again. I’m talking about a full-size frame and a big V-twin (the Harley’s defining element) that is air cooled (to reduce complexity and cost as well as because it’s traditional) and very little else. Make it rakish and mean-looking. Offer a bunch of dealer-available accessories and make the dealers super helpful to owners.
That would be, as the saying goes, a start.
If Royal Enfield can make air cooled engines that comply with modern emissions regs, WTF is Harley’s problem?
Exactly, Mark!
Royal Enfield shows how it’s done.
And RE designed and built their air cooled engines to meet STRICTER regs! They designed and built their air cooled engines to meet Indian BS6 and Euro 6 regs, which are more strict than our EPA regs. Oh and BTW, because of India’s notoriously bad air pollution, they had to SKIP BS5 regs! They were the next step up from their previous BS4 regs, making RE’s accomplishment even more impressive. As you said, they showed how it’s done.
Agreed! I had a FXR besides Sportsters and that bike fit your “mold”!
The notion that a Sportster, even the 883, was a girls’ bike, bothers me. There was a time not so long ago that the Sportster was among the biggest bikes we could buy. The notion of starting your riding career on something that big was INCREDULOUS; you just didn’t do that! Back in the day, the Sportster was something you worked up to over time; it was an aspirational bike, not a first bike.
When we toured the Harley museum in Milwaukee in Fall 2023, the entire hallway leading down to the company bike archives was dedicated to the book “My Papi Has a Motorcycle”.
Not “Easy Rider” stills or famous images of James Dean.
That’s all I needed to see to know where Harley was headed.
By the time they learn the lesson of “Get woke, go broke”, it will be too late.
BTW, I estimate the gift shops had almost as much floor space as the museum exhibits. Maybe a little less but not much.
People are broke can’t afford to spend lots on a toy and Harley riders are fucking dickheads usually it’s always look at me I got the biggest loudest thing I could find to be as annoying as possible South Park got it right in there episode about Harley people.
“When was the last time you saw a guy in his early 20s on a new Harley?”
I can only think of one young person (under 50) that rides. He’s into dual sports i.e. not Gliders or Sportsters.
Grew up riding dirt bikes, my first street motorcycle was a Harley, 2004 Nighttrain, purchased when I was 34. Bought it to impress a girl who I never did impress Rode it off an on for about 10 years, had a child immediately sold it for a lot less. If I ever did get back into riding it probably wouldn’t be a Harley. But it wouldn’t be sport bike either.
The kind of woman you want to impress with a Harley is a quick ride you don’t want to keep around anyway. Though it is fun when it happens. Just my two FRN’s worth.
I’ve had my motorcycle endorsement for 42 years. I’ve never even sat on a Harley, let alone ridden or owned one.
Save for a few exceptions (like the Electra-Glide) they always struck me as loud, crude, obnoxious, expensive, and ridden by assholes putting on affectations about how tough they are.
Semper Fi Mac…:)
Sadly, Harley’s always been terminal.
The myopic leadership and management within Harley are directly at fault.
They still insist on using old cheap tech, i.e., air-cooled engines/transmissions, and putting them in old frames, but charging completely exorbitant prices, all because it says “Harley-Davidson ” on the side???? More like Hardly Ableson….
Puhleeze, someone puch these idiots-in-charge in the face for us!!!
I lived & remember the debacle in the 70’s with the AMF ownership years and crappy quality.
When Harley pleaded their case before Reagan for protection from the late 70’s & 80’s Japanese bikes that were being “dumped” in America for cheap, and they got tariff protection for above 700cc bikes. And why? Because Harley built nothing under 700cc??
And the “patriotism and buy American” wave of sentiments that made Harley boom financially?? They simply squandered that money on executive perks, not production improvements.
When they brought in Buell, I thought maybe here’s a chance for them to catch up to the big 4 from Japan, and do a modern & affordable bike. But no, Buell was run off and all he tried to do dumped, and even the VROD was ostracized as a “non-canon” bike, cuz Porsche helped and it was water cooled.
And lately, the overpriced & underperforming “Livewire” fizzle-out…I hate to see American companies fail, but Harley has simply hung themselves, again and again and again….
About 21 years ago, i knew some hard-core HD owner friendly coworkers & used to ride on weekends with them, and one owned 3 HD bikes. I asked how much he’d spent on them, figuring it’d be about $25,000…my mouth dropped when he told me it was more than 50G’s for them & parts!!! These guys joked, even then, that the “HD” stood for $100, and up, since that was the price of the cheapest part on anything for any HD bike….whew, not my kind of money….
YMMV….
Here’s what will kill Harley’s foray into e-bikes: the noise factor. Why does the average motorhead buy a Harley? Because of the inordinately loud rumble those motors make — especially when the factory-installed muffler is removed (which most owners do). Have you heard some of those Harley electric jobs? They make practically zero noise compared to their gas-powered counterparts, which is why traditional Harley aficionados will ignore them.
Looking at their website the cheapest bike starts at $10K. Way back before I was born HD built the Hummer as their affordable entry level bike, back then they realized at some level that if you start out on a Harley you’d probably continue riding them. Apparently they think people who after riding other brands will suddenly want a Harley. Sounds unreasonable and guess what? That’s what’s happening, riders are sticking to the brands they know like Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki.
Another company headed to the dustbin of industry.
Hi Landru,
Yup. It’s so obvious – and yet, they seem to not see. There is no reason HD ought not to be able to build an elemental Harley. A stripped down thing designed to be customized by it owner. How much does a tube steel frame and a big air cooled V twin cost? It ought not to cost much. Add a teardrop tank and the rest of the basics and let it go at that. Make it look mean, like they used to. Such a bike at $6k or so would attract young guys and it would sell to young guys.
If they had a cheap er bike under the HD brand, they would immediately undercut their full size market.
I believe we should thank HD corporate though. They seem to be the bulwark against the EPA regs on 2 wheel transportation.
If there was no premium paid for the HD brand, then there wouldn’t be enough funding for the “escorted” government informational junkets that keep those regulations at bay.