Things are so bad over at Harley that the iconic American motorcycle company has had to resort to selling its loan portfolio to keep afloat. Two investors – Pimco and KKR – have reportedly agreed to buy Harley’s loans as well as a stake in Harley’s in-house financing operation, Harley-Davidson Financial Services (HDFS) for $5 billion.
“This partnership transforms HDFS into a capital-light financing business through the sale of existing and future retail loans while maintaining its strategic value to Harley-Davidson, its dealers, customers and investors,” reads a release published by Harley the other day.
The interesting thing here is the sotto voce confession that Harley isn’t making much money selling motorcycles; it is making money selling loans. More finely, it appears that the bulk of its earnings comes in the form of interest on loans. These loans are, of course, necessary because Harleys are too expensive for most people to just buy without financing them. The financing terms are longer than ever, too (as in the four-wheeled world) in order to make those monthly payments seem affordable.
The least expensive model Harley currently sells is the $10,000-to-start Nightster. It is a pretty basic bike, for a Harley. But it’s still thousands more than similar entry level bikes from other manufacturers, such as the Royal Enfield Bear, which lists for about $7,000 and is probably buyable for less, as other-brand bike dealers are generally more willing to haggle than Harley dealers.
There are no Harley sport bikes, either.
The worse problem, though, is Harley’s aging-out buyer demographic.
Reputationally, Harleys are still seen as the Outlaw Bikes, which was true – once. But Easy Rider was a long time ago and Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper are both dead. The typical Harley rider today is probably twice as old as Fonda and Hopper were in the movie and here enters the Catch 22. On the one hand, retirement-age motorcycle riders have a lot more money to spend than motorcycle riders in their 20s, so you can sell the older guys a more expensive bike and that is exactly what Harley has been doing for at least 20 years now. Big Harleys cost as much as a car, some of the transacting for $30,000 or more. There is a lot of financing money to be made off of that.
The problem is people in their 50s and 60s have maybe one or two new motorcycle buys left to go before they age out of motorcycling. Without young buyers replacing them (and volume sales replacing high-margin sales) there is probably not much of a future left for Harley. The disastrous “investment” in electric things that look like motorcycles – such as the LiveWire – but are no such things because a motorcycle that runs on batteries isn’t one – has not helped. It was thought that electric things that look like motorcycles would attract young riders to the brand; but young people who want a motorcycle do not want a thing that looks like one but isn’t. It is embarrassing to be seen riding one – just as it is embarrassing to be seen driving a battery-powered Charger that makes play-pretend muscle car sounds.
Reportedly, Harley has lost at least $20 million on its LiveWire thing that isn’t a motorcycle but tries hard to look like it is.
Most young riders want a bike – not a device. And the ones that want a device can’t ride and are probably afraid to.
It is interesting to see the ominous parallels. Everyone is aware that the younger crowd is being – has been – priced out of the new car market. There is little that’s appealing and everything’s expensive. Anything that is appealing is far too expensive for most people in their ’20s to buy.
Motorcycles used to be the affordable alternative to a car. The Japanese brands – especially Honda – built a huge following offering just exactly that and Harley used to as well. But while the Japanese brands still offer affordable bikes as well as a variety of bikes – not just cruisers and tourers – Harley hasn’t for years and on account of that has divorced itself from its future. The 22-year-old who buys a new entry level Honda as his first bike is very likely to buy his second (and third) bike from Honda. It is another matter to get a 22-year-old into a Harley store where there’s (a) not much in his price range and (b) almost no one else in his age range.
So this infusion of capital can be seen as Harley not addressing its problems but rather buying some time, while eating through its seed corn. The brand needs a reboot, more even than a short-term infusion of stay-afloat capital.
HD might consider the wisdom expressed by the man who sought to transform GM’s Pontiac division – and succeeded, wildly. That man was Semon Knudsen, who took over wht was then a very geriatric (in terms of its buyer demographic) Pontiac in 1956. He said: “You can sell an old man a young man’s car, but you can’t sell a young man an old man’s car.” The latter is what Pontiac was selling in the late 1950s. By the early 1960s that had changed. More specifically, the 1964 GTO changed everything.
That’s the kind of bike – in spirit – that will bring the youth back to Harley. Something an old man wouldn’t want that a young man burns to have.
. . .
If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos.
We depend on you to keep the wheels turning!
Our donate button is here.
If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:
EPautos
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079
PS: Get an EPautos magnet or sticker or coaster in return for a $25 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a magnet or sticker or coaster – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)
If you’d like a Baaaaa hat or other EPautos gear, see here!
Sturgis is in full swing today, 700,000 expected to roll into town.
Harley must be there selling Harley-Davidson wares.
700,000 times 100 USD spent on Harley products in Sturgis is equal to 70,000,000 dollars. Harley does it for the money.
Bikers will roam around the Black Hills for another month.
The Harley-Davidson business owner I met 25 years ago was 102 at the time. He and his brother owned a gasoline alley Harley shop in Minnesota, the shop was in their garage. Harley-Davidson did want them to continue business.
Their wives forced them to go get jobs.
Garden beets are finally here, such a treat to relieve the summertime blues.
Morning, Drump!
There are still a lot of 50-60 year olds guys riding Harleys; but that’s all I see. It means that within in about 20 years, there will be very few Harley riders left. Harley ought to thin some about that.
Local Harley dealer went out of business in 2020. Not even 15 years after building a new nearly $20 million dealership. Building is still standing vacant.
They need to change their business model yesterday. I don’t see it happening either.
A Honda car dealer took over the McMansion Harley dealer in our town.
RE: Three wheeling, consider the CanAm, two wheels up front one drive wheel rear, much more stable than the traditional Harley trike from what I’m told.
https://www.brp-world.com/int/en/brands/can-am-on-road/models-2024/3-wheel-vehicles/ryker.html
One riding pal had to give up her Electraglide (yes misogynistic Sparkey rides with chicks!). She (age 70) busted a hip in a two wheel tumble on a rental in Europe 2 years ago that was it for touring two wheel bikes. She got a Can Am last year and is pleased as punch. One other gal in our group is a Harley triker she’s happy with her choice.
Sparkey is still on two wheels (Harley Road King) at 70. Now joking with the kids as to when they pull the keys. It will go to the son-in-law I’m not selling.
Another thing, Harleys and handling. Please. The modern Harley isn’t anything like the old iron of the ‘60s. Even this old man can toss the M8 powered Road King thru the twisties. Avon tires, Progessive 412s on the rear suspension stock front end good to go. Perfect throttle response and gobs of low end torque.
Vespa: “I get 60 miles to the gallon!
Harley: “I get laid”. (Hottie mini mart clerk flat out told my Harley buddy “I’m off work at 3 come give me a ride”)
A good friend of mine has been riding big Harleys for years. He’s good and has no trouble on the Blue Ridge Parkway or anywhere else, sparks from the boards and all. Obviously in the hands of a great rider a sport bike will edge them out but moto cops rarely have difficultly chasing down the numbnut kids on theirs in town.
If there’s any doubt take a class from a retired moto cop or watch them rodeo on their Harleys, BWMs and Kawasakis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiIuJHric4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7YOwtqhnFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1j1shZi20
Hi Wesslope,
Yup; I have seen some Harley guys who are fast – and that is always impressive! I would like to see Harley try to appeal to a younger crowd, though – because I don’t want to see Harley die off because its buyers have.
Like most of modern living, lack of money looms large. Early 70s families had money for dirt bikes, a camper, a ski boat, etc.
Now? Middle class hanging on to pay for overpriced housing and frankly overpriced everything. Not much for toys. Working part time in high school I had enough for a used car then senior year bought my first motorcycle a one year old Honda CB450. Everyone did this in high school, guys and gals worked part time & kept a used car rolling.
Indeed, Sparkey –
The only reason I gave some toys is because I bought them before the cost of them (and everything else) sailed out of hand. The Trans Am? I was able to afford that car back in the early ’90s when I was in my 20s. Today I am twice as old and could not afford to buy one like it now.
I just spent 4 days riding a Lynskey Live Wire titanium hardtail, made in Chatanooga TN, on Mt Shasta among its dying off forest. Huge gubmint grifting op in progress removing many thousands of huge suddenly dead trees.
That Harley thing is a bigger piece of shit than last weeks VW microbus.
Last summer I was in Milwaukee and went to the Harley Museum. Very nice place and they spent some real coin on the building.
I think kissing the electric tar baby is going to not only kill Harley but GM, Dodge, and Ford. Mary and Farley will ask for and likely get bailouts. Harley and Dodge… maybe not.
Chrysler and GM openly received FedGove bailouts which stiffed the bond holders and made both wards of the state just as Obama took office.
Ford’s bailout was semi-secret, done near the end of the Chimp’s second term. The terms involved required the Ford family to cede control and Bill Ford to step down as CEO, replaced by an actual engineer — Imagine! — Alan Mulally from Boeing.
Tommy Boy took the CEO gig when Mulally retired.
Owner of two Harley’s. Went looking for a third one. The dealer would not take cash, only finance. Many HD dealers had ‘Early Payoff’ which was mostly based on how much interest was left on the loan.
Also their accessories are married to the bike’s computer which means the devices won’t work on other bikes, A couple of car manufactures are going that way. Also means you can’t sell the old part because the numbers don’t match the other persons ECU.
VW did this I know as far back as 2003, at least with keys and the radio being coded to only function with the ECU it’s originally mated with.
It could be changed using dealer software. Or at least used to be an option when the dealer could still get the SKC to unlock your radio or make new ignition keys in the old gen 3 IMMO scheme.
Now, in 2025, if you want to buy a used radio for a MkIV Golf or Jetta you have to get the keys and radio that go with it or do the pat your head, rub you belly work around to find the SKC hidden in the ECU.
On a newer VW these workaround don’t work since VW eventually figured out holding the SKC in plain text in the ECU firmware was a major security hole.
It’s not really a simple thing to hate this because the idea of this was to made it more difficult for a chop shop to sell stolen parts, which is at least the cover story. It’s also a way for the manufacturer to force buyers to use dealer service and moves planned obsolesce forward nicely. When push comes to shove they really don’t care if your car is stolen.
‘The Japanese brands – especially Honda – built a huge following offering just exactly that [affordability].’ — eric
And two things more: quality and respectability. Hondas didn’t leak oil, as Harleys notoriously did for another couple of decades. Then in 1963, Honda launched an ad campaign — ‘You Meet the Nicest People on a Honda’ — which Motorcycle Classics called ‘perhaps the most iconic motorcycle sales slogan ever created.’ It showed nice, upscale suburban white people — the tennis set, if you will — gadding about on their cute little Honda 90s. Sales exploded.
Why did Honda need to make this cultural statement? Because over 1947’s July 4th weekend in Hollister, California, a big motorcycle rally was spun as a riot in the influential pages of LIFE magazine. Check out LIFE’s photo titled ‘Cyclist’s Holiday.’ A pudgy-faced punk on a motorcycle, his baseball cap askew, holds a longneck beer in each hand, while under his fenderless front wheel is a whole case worth of empties. This could be me! 🙂
https://tinyurl.com/yntnyrzu
Then The Wild One, a 1953 biker film featuring Marlon Brando, cemented the bad-boy image of bikers in Americans’ minds. When Honda came to Los Angeles in 1959, as the proverbial visitors from Mars, they saw an affluent, untapped mainstream market. By the end of 1963, the first full year that the Nicest People ad appeared in magazines and newspapers across America, total motorcycle sales in the U.S. had soared to about 148,000 units.
But the rebels struck back in 1967, with Hunter S Thompson’s book Hell’s Angels: A Strange and Terrible Saga. As a young lad in short pants, I could not but be impressed with the motorcycle outlaws’ dictum against washing jeans, something that would never fly with my mom. According to Thompson, after a couple of years’ saturation with grease, beer, piss and semen, jeans would stand up by themselves! What’s not to like?’ I hollered at mom.
Something went wrong with the shortened link above; sorry! Here is a direct link to the article:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/75-years-ago-hollister-began-changing-the-image-of-motorcycling
I bought one of the new Honda VTX cruisers in 2005. I put some aftermarket pipes on it and it had that Harley sound.
I pulled up next to a couple of Harley riders at an intersection and one of the guys asked “what in the hell is that?”. I told him it was a Honda and they both smiled. The guy said “nothin beats a Honda!”.
I rode that thing for 10 years and I was done with MCs.
This week I spotted a row of HD dressers parked at the Chili’s for lunch. They certainly looked nice, all that chrome and clear coat in the sunshine. But they were all covered in bible verses.
So much for Hell’s angles.
The kids are into riding e-bikes now. Light, easy to wrench on …and no license, insurance or beatdown worry. Biggest threat is getting ticketed for going too fast on the bike trail with your flashed and hacked speed controller. The e-bikes will catch up to motorcycles at some point as far as power and speed, although they’ll still have the battery problem that is the Achilles heel of all EVs.
The other 2 wheeled vehicles I see are made for dirt. Very very common out here to see OHV bikes on forest service and BLM roads. Not too many Harleys get dirty. Even fewer are able to be repaired in the field after bouncing off a tree.
I’m a long way from my 20s but back when I got into bikes it was street legal dirt bikes that scratched the itch and dual sports are what I’ve been on since. I hate the Harley dealer here in town but it’s also the KTM dealer and some friends ride KTM ADV bikes. I don’t make a habit of going to Harley dealers so I couldn’t say if the experience is typical but it’s like walking into a fashion show. The old Perri’s or Motorcycle Accessories is much more my style, or even All Terrain is alright. I know what I need and sure as heck ain’t chrome and t-shirts. The BMW sand KTM parts of the store aren’t much better, although at least the overpriced stuff is useful. I do love my Klim threads.
They say HD makes more money off licensing the logo for apparel than they do selling bikes.
I’m not into motorcycles, but when I borrowed a friend’s BMW F650 for a day, I was impressed.
If more bikes were like that Beemer, more people would ride.
But who else makes bikes like that?
True dat RK, I see e-bikes and scooters all over the place around here, almost got run into a few times because they’re so quiet you can’t hear them coming and the younger kids tend to ride on the sidewalk. I see the appeal as you mentioned, not having to deal with licenses, saaaaaafety inspections, or the insurance mafia.
The e-bikes are the mini bike of our generation. Cheap, legal-adjacent, kids can fix and hot rod them. It’s encouraging that kids are turning wrenches and going outside at least. I wish they wouldn’t ride hiking and bicycle trails on them, but I’m not the cops so I’m not gonna stop ’em.
Every spring we see letters to the editor complaining about e-bikers behaving badly on trails. I think much of it is jealousy because the spandex crowd can’t keep up, but it’s true the tourists and renters tend to not know trail etiquette and make e-bikes look bad. Rental companies could take 2 minutes to explain how the bell works for alerting walkers, but it probably wouldn’t sink in.
The people riding on the sidewalks need to be educated too, but I group them in with the DUI riders who have to get to work and never think about riding one block over from the rush hour traffic.
I’m a cyclist. I try to stay in shape but, yeah, of course there’s no way a human can keep up with a motorcycle. John Henry killed himself trying. I’m not jealous of them, if I didn’t want to work hard at it I’d twist a throttle, too. The effort IS the point of the endeavor.
Yea, but you’re probably not writing letters to the editor of the Aspen Times about every thought that comes across your elitist brain either.
Institutions hold 96% of Harley’s stock, with Vanguard and Blackrock at #1 and #3, respectively, each with about 10% of the company. Nothing will change the company’s current direction.
If you believe otherwise, visit the Harley mausoleum -er- museum in Milwaukee. When we visited two years ago, the place was like a tomb, and what struck me in particular was the hallway leading to the official company product archives being dedicated to a DEI-inspired children’s book, “My Papi Has A Motorcycle”.
Apparently, the author’s *late* father being the “Papi”.
Nary a picture from “Easy Rider” or imgae of Brando in sight.
I’ll bet Larry ‘rat fink’ Finklestein still holds a bunch. Every company that ruined themselves going woke needs to repent or die. Its not enough for them just to say, ‘so solly,’ and expect us to move on. Their woke, climate alarmism is just moving back underground. People are already forgetting. Now that the woke degeneracy is receding everyone needs to remember and hold accountable who was at fault. Certainly Govco, HR, and drive by media. But above all, Finklesteins Blackstone was behind pushing this zealotry on us in full civilizational destructiveness mode.
I’ve never ridden nor will I probably ever. From my perspective Harleys are heavy, slow and loud. Sure, they can go fast in a straight line but, there’s always a curve ahead. Getting behind a group of these slow pokes in the mountains is like a root canal.
Sport bikes, on the other hand, seem much more attractive to younger buyers. Light, fast and they make great sounds. Harleys sound like a fat old man farting in a bathtub.
If Harley wants to attract a younger demo they’re going to have to come up with a bike that can compete, and win, in the international racing series that gets most kids interested in two wheels. I say this based on grandsons that think motocross is “da’ bomb”. That and a sport bike offering might pull their fat (pun intended) out of the fire.
I agree, Mark – and your description of an old man farting in a bathtub is hilarious! I ought ot have added something about sport bikes. Then again, Buell failed, too.
Cause Buell is a sport bike in the same sense that a Mustang is a sports car.
Just like Harley, Buell was overweight, and too expensive for what they were.
I had a 1st gen Buell Cyclone I rode “lighter” than it actually was. It was a super fun bike to ride. The second gens were full of kick ass innovation, Eric Buell had to be influenced by Britten on those bikes. They were much lighter than the 1st gens but pigs in relation to JA-Pan sportbikes. In 2005 the main reason I walked away from buying a 1200 Firebolt was the insurance cost. The rates were purely based on displacement. It was about a quarter of the cost to insure an R6. So I bought that. I’d still like to get a used Firebolt someday just because of how out of the ordinary they are.
Couldn’t agree more on some of the Buell innovation. Good stuff was going on.
It’s just a shame the weight saving stuff like oil reservoir in swing arm and gas in the frame never saved enough weight to offset other heavy stuff like the engine.
Its the torque, like having a V8 in a car, and a good harley should feel like a couch on the road. In my 20s I really wanted a 1980 fxs lowrider like the old biker gangs in the 80s, but I ended up inheriting a FXRD in 2017 instead. Any FXR platform bike is very nimble, even as a full dresser. They just are not fast unless you replace the transmission for a 6 speed. As a 5 speed, they are happy around 70-75mph max cruising as they top out in the 90s.
My perspective is that harley should sell basic small bikes that look like they did in 1915 in 500cc single or 1000cc v twins like they had back then. I think they would be popular with younger riders much like Janus Cycles. Janus uses that 100 year old look as their selling point, but they used to use chinese engines. Maybe they still do, I havent kept up. At least I would be interested in one like that under $7000. Maybe have some brass or bronze on those engines too. Call the engine an ‘Old Head’ or something.
Sometimes I miss two-wheeling. Traffic around here has gotten so bad that it’s just not safe to do so. The old Sportster and I have many a pleasant morning ride through what was then cotton fields by two lane roads. Now it’s subdivision after subdivision of carpetbaggers.
What’s the group opinion of the trike –good alternative for old farts like me or fake & gay?
Hi MH,
If a trike allows you to ride, why not? Or even if you just want a trike, why not? The only thing about them that’s iffy – in my view – is not having an independent rear suspension. Bikes, as you know, steer by leaning. When you try to lean a trike, the rear wheels won’t and that can eventually lead (if you are cornering fast) to the outside rear wheel getting air under it in the curve and that isn’t good.
Worse – trikes (and side cars) are inherently unstable with weird handling. It’s a mistake to think that a trike is somehow safer.
When they are on three wheels they steer like a car.
The instant they go up on two wheels they steer via countersteer like a motorcycle.
If you don’t understand that instantaneous handling transition and have some practice dealing with it, there’s a good chance your instinctive reaction will only make matters worse.
But having said that – nothing wrong with a trike if that is what you want and it keeps you riding and enjoying life.
I always say a prayer for the seasonal bikers up here. If the nasty frost heaves do not get them, the horrible drivers certainly pose an equal danger to their safety. Keeping ones head on a swivel is not an option. One morning, I was driving down the road, and saw a guy on a bike wearing…..an Elmo costume. You do not see that one every day….
So… I gots to know… did you tickle him?
Back in the 50’s Harley had entry level bikes, heck in the 70’s they had rebranded bikes from Amichi if I remember correctly. Now, nope. Years ago I walked into a Harley dealer to look to see if they had any smaller bikes; the place was nearly empty. I was ignored by the staff, walked out and never went back.
As for that dead wire bike, I’m sure they lost more than 20 million on that failed idea.
Yup – back when the V-rod 1st came out I was intrigued since the engine was co-designed when help from Porsche Engineering and finally offered some decent horsepower.
Dealer ignored me. When I went to hunt someone down to inquire I was talked to rudely and told they are all sold. Not taking orders. Please go away was the unstated vibe.
Never have set foot in a Hardly dealership again. There is nothing they could offer to induce me to buy anything from them at this point.
Yeah, I traded a junk VW kit car for an 03 Sportster. Turns out the Sporty is a really fun bike, so much so that I’ve neglected the BMW boxer and the Yammerhammer XS650. But when I went in the dealership looking for a couple of the appealing “live to ride/ ride to live” hand grips and choked on the $300 price tag, they turned up their noses and sneered at me.
Hi Ernie.
Wow! $300 for a pair of grips? I could buy a header for my ’76 KZ900 for that!