Rain Day Clover

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Here is today’s Clover:

It’s lightly raining outside – misting, really. For Clover, this constitutes dangerous driving conditions.


Ergo –  Must Slow To A Crawl. And even more important (to the Clover): Must ignore the cars stacking up behind me – and make no effort to let them get by.

This video also documents a second type of Clover: The tailgating Clover. Notice the Grand Marquis behind the truck Clover. He rides the truck’s ass – but makes no effort to pass.dancing Clover

Just another day among the Clovers….

If you want this train to keep on chugging along – and running over Clovers – please throw some coals in the fire.

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  1. @ Clover –
    “people have every right to pull out in front of you if it is safe to do so”
    That’s exactly the point. If the vehicle (esp. 18-wheeler) you pull out in front of has to slam on the brakes and potentially cause a chain reaction pileup, then it is NOT safe to do so! And just because there wasn’t a rear-ending somewhere behind you does not mean you were OK, it just means the other guys were better drivers than you and/or lucky.

    • In fact, he shouldn’t even need to lift his foot of the pedal to slow down. THAT is the meaning of “yield right of way.”

  2. I’m just glad that the Interstates are referred to as ‘expressways.’ Alone in my car on a ridiculous commute, I often take advantage of it to ‘express,’ loudly my opinion of the drivers in front of me impeding my progress.
    Esp. here in the DC area, there seems to be an extreme shortage of horses, at least in proportion to the number of horses’ posteriors on the road.

  3. Tor, reading this reminded me of getting stopped when I was a teen with a girlfriend. The cop said the light was red although I was watching closely and it wasn’t. He said if I paid as much attention to the traffic signal as I did the girl I’d be ok. It’s a little town with very quick ambers and very quick lights anyway but the fast ambers are simply for revenue collection. Lots of towns use this method and it only changes when enough people complain.

    Fast forward 50 years, and that same damned light caught me halfway through even though I had some speed up with a load only slightly over-weight(80,4000 lbs), not even enough to warrant a fine. As I went through that red light I was transported back in time to that new ’64 Chevy and the even newer girl. It gave me something to think about on the road that day.

  4. A journalist’s article in a local mainstream paper copy/pasted –
    Traffic safety solutions in the works by Molly Ball
    Friday, June 4, 2004

    Traffic safety experts refer often to “the three E’s,” the three essential components of making the streets safer: engineering, education and enforcement.

    Some add encouragement, emergency medicine or efficiency to the list, but the main E’s are universally agreed upon. The challenge is to make them come together and reinforce each other.

    Well-engineered streets won’t matter if people don’t know how to use them. Informed citizens will break the rules if no one is watching. All the speeding tickets in the world can’t compensate for poor design and a populace that doesn’t understand the rules.

    But the most important E, experts say, is probably engineering. The streets could be made many times safer by building and marking streets and setting traffic rules in different ways, they say.

    However, experts admit that these measures could bring more traffic jams, an unpopular prospect in a area already overwhelmed by traffic.

    The Las Vegas Valley’s most dangerous street for pedestrians, Maryland Parkway, is a classic example of the deadly combination of factors that spell danger for those on foot.

    From 1996 to 2002, six of the top 15 sites where pedestrians were hit by vehicles were along Maryland Parkway.

    “It’s a wide street where people travel well over the speed limit,” said Erin Breen of the Safe Community Partnership at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Traffic routinely travels at 45 mph despite the 30 mph limit.

    That’s one ingredient. Plus, Maryland Parkway is not well lighted or well marked by signs. Plus, it is a major commercial artery lined on either side with business driveways, so vehicles are pulling out or turning in every few yards. It also runs through several of the most densely populated parts of the valley, many lower-income areas whose residents may not own cars.

    Add it all up, and you have a recipe for a walking disaster, Breen said.

    Other streets where pedestrians might be wise not to tread include Las Vegas Boulevard — except for the Strip, Flamingo Road, Charleston Boulevard and Boulder Highway.

    It is too late to change the fundamental layout of these streets. “But can we make it better, can we improve it? You bet,” said Sue Newberry, a nationally recognized expert on traffic safety based in Carson City. “It can be changed, but it has to become a priority. It isn’t right now.”

    Better designed roads — with more crosswalks, attention-getting signage and lighting, and some more exotic features — are the bottom line for making the streets safer, advocates say.

    “There’s a myth that as soon as you paint a crosswalk, pedestrians take more chances. There’s no data demonstrating that,” Newberry said.

    “But there is data that says that just painting a crosswalk on a multilane road isn’t enough,” she continued. “You also have to slow traffic, add islands and so on. If you make it more convenient to go to the corner, people will go to the corner.”

    Rather than blaming pedestrians who race across the street to catch a bus — a bus their livelihoods may depend on — cities should build facilities that allow pedestrians to get where they need to go with relative ease, Newberry and others say.

    For example, in some places, roundabouts can replace conventional intersections, allowing narrower streets to move greater volumes of traffic at slower speeds, Newberry said. Islands in wide roads give pedestrians a “refuge” where they can wait when crossing intersections. Lines can be painted to force cars to make tighter turns so they can’t whip around at high speed. One-way streets benefit pedestrians, as do restrictions on U-turns, left turns and right turns on red lights. Streets lined with on-street parking can have “bulb-out” curbs that jut into the intersection, shortening the distance across, a design used in many parts of Europe where walking is a way of life.

    Some of these solutions are being used around the valley, especially within Las Vegas’ city limits. Pedestrian advocates praise city engineer O.C. White for working to improve the situation.

    Countdown timers — displays on “Walk” signals at traffic lights that count down the seconds remaining — have been installed at about 50 locations, for example, and White says their success is apparent.

    “I listen to people look at the timer and say, ‘I can’t make it across,’ so they wait,” he said.

    The timers also reassure waiting pedestrians that the light will eventually change in their favor.

    Las Vegas’ goal is to put the timers at all of the more than 400 intersections it controls.

    White has pushed for more prominent signage for pedestrians. The bright yellowish-green signs with the stick figure on them, which point to crosswalks with an arrow, were his idea.

    In Clark County, the low volume of pedestrians outside the Strip means their needs must be balanced against those of motorists — and taxpayers, county engineer Herb Arnold said.

    “Are we going to stop thousands of cars for just a few people who don’t want to walk a few hundred feet to the signal? A traffic signal costs $200,000. It’s not cheap,” Arnold said. “When the person could just walk a few hundred feet, it’s not cost-effective.”

    But pedestrian advocates say a few hundred feet is too far to ask people to go out of their way on foot. Three-hundred feet, after all, is the length of a football field.

    Shashi Nambisan, a civil engineering professor and the director of UNLV’s Transportation Research Center, said engineering measures can make streets more friendly without necessarily inconveniencing drivers.

    “Engineering isn’t everything, but you can certainly engineer improvements,” Nambisan said.

    Nambisan’s center has a Federal Highway Administration grant to study novel countermeasures for pedestrian safety. Some of its ideas have never been tried before.

    The grant is one of three that were awarded in a national competition.

    One idea the center hopes to test is a crosswalk that includes lights embedded in the street. If a pedestrian presses the button to cross, the crosswalk lights up, making it hard for drivers to miss. Alternately, the crosswalk could sense the pedestrian’s presence.

    Another idea is an electronic display of a pair of animated eyes that would light up above a crosswalk when the button is pressed.

    In a new variation on radar trailers that tell drivers they’re speeding, researchers want to try a speed detector that displays “speed limit,” “your speed” — and “your fine,” the amount you would be charged if cited for speeding.

    “I think engineering is the most important factor” in pedestrian safety, said Sally Flocks, president and chief executive of Pedestrians Educating Drivers on Safety, an advocacy group in Atlanta.

    Flocks’ grass-roots group has grown to include a mayoral task force. The group succeeded in getting standards established for pedestrian-friendly crosswalks and for installation of red-light cameras. The cameras have been outlawed in Nevada, but studies show they are effective for traffic safety.

    As a growing area that suffers from sprawl, Atlanta pedestrians have benefited by creating new zoning categories to encourage walkable neighborhoods and discourage big-block retail development, Flocks said.

    Deborah Murphy of L.A. Walks in Los Angeles, said her group leads a committee that advises that city’s Transportation Department on pedestrian issues. Having an official voice as part of the system helps pedestrians and gets streets designed in a more walkable way, she said.

    Newberry said Las Vegas already possesses one excellent example of pedestrian-friendly engineering.

    “The Las Vegas Strip is a great model,” she said. “Why do people come from all over the world to walk distances they would never think of walking at home? They walk for miles — much to the surprise of the traffic engineers, who built it as a car strip.”

    The reason is that “the casinos created attractions, and they created one of the most interesting pedestrian environments in the world,” Newberry said. The mass of pedestrians who walk the Strip created enough demand for special signal timing and elevated walkways.

    Such overpasses often are not practical and are usually too inconvenient for pedestrians, she said. But the Strip proves that a balance can be struck in most places between the needs of hot, thirsty pedestrians and those of crawling, frustrated drivers as long as both sides are willing to compromise.

    Newberry admits that making streets more pedestrian-friendly might impede traffic flow somewhat, a development bound to anger already-frustrated Las Vegas drivers. But, she says, she’s not suggesting that pedestrians be allowed to walk all over drivers, so to speak.

    “Let’s say right now 99 percent of our emphasis (in road design) goes on the automobile,” she said. “Let’s say we adjust it so it’s only 90 percent.”

    Her figures are no exaggeration. From 1998 to 2001, less than 1 percent of federal ground-transportation funding was spent on pedestrian or bicycle projects, according to the Surface Transportation Policy Project. In Nevada, 64 cents per person per year were spent on pedestrian and bicycle safety and facilities.

    “There are trade-offs,” Newberry said. “If you make the situation better for pedestrians, it’s not likely that it’s going to be better for cars.”

    But engineering is not the only component to safer streets, especially when people aren’t following the rules. Recent incidents have revealed that many Las Vegans do not fully understand traffic laws.

    When 13-year-old Manuel Cazares was injured while riding his bicycle, many were surprised to learn that children are not allowed to ride bicycles through crosswalks and that drivers are required to stop when other cars stop at a crosswalk.

    Driver-education schools are required to teach pedestrian and bicycle safety to would-be motorists, said Kevin Malone, Department of Motor Vehicles public information officer. A full page of the 60-page Nevada Driver’s Handbook is devoted to bicycles, and about half a page to pedestrians.

    The written driving test consists of 50 questions taken at random from a pool of 147 questions. Seven questions on any test must come from a 21-question section called “Sharing the Road,” and six of those are about bicycles or pedestrians, Malone said.

    “We can’t guarantee that there’s going to be even one question about bicycles and pedestrians on each test, but a good majority of them” should address the topic, he said.

    Clark County School District curriculum stipulates traffic safety concepts that students must be taught in each grade starting with kindergarten, spokeswoman Pat Nelson said. Schools may also, on a voluntary basis, have assemblies or invite guest speakers such as police officers or safety officials.

    However, Nelson said teachers do not have to be specially trained in traffic safety — they usually teach from textbooks and teachers’ guides — and the district does not devote a whole department to the topic, as it does to substance-abuse prevention.

    “On bicycles, parents and guardians are responsible for making kids follow traffic laws,” said Bruce Mackey, Nevada’s Office of Traffic Safety’s pedestrian and bicycle safety officer. If parents don’t know the laws or don’t make sure their children follow them, the results can be tragic.

    Mackey’s office distributes federal grant money and smaller state grants funded by a 50-cent surcharge on driver’s licenses. The last broad-based education campaign on pedestrian safety was in 2002 and featured Mackey, Metro Detective Bill Redfairn and John Brekke, whose 14-year-old daughter was killed on her way to school in 1991, in television and radio spots.

    Plans are in the works for a new campaign on the advertising panels inside Citizens Area Transit buses, since many pedestrians are hit when they run across the street to catch a bus, Breen said.

    Breen is involved in planning the campaign with the Regional Transportation Commission, and she wants to make it “hard-hitting.” Never one to mince words, she recalls an ad she proposed that was turned down a few years ago for being too harsh. It featured a picture of a chalk outline of a body on the street.

    The caption: “Don’t make the six-lane dash to death.”

    But to Breen the best education campaign is enforcement of traffic regulations.

    “The most effective way to change people’s behavior is to issue a citation,” she said. “I can guarantee if you get a ticket for something like not yielding to a pedestrian, and it costs you money and time, you’re going to look for pedestrians from then on.”

    On Memorial Day weekend, Metro Police and the Nevada Highway Patrol kicked off a valleywide traffic crackdown that Metro Capt. Vincent Cannito, who leads the department’s Transportation Safety Bureau, said will continue until there is a significant reduction in traffic accidents.

    “The accident is a symptom; the cause is aggressive driving,” he said. “We’re trying to modify people’s driving behavior to prevent accidents from happening in the first place.”

    To that end, police and NHP troopers will be writing more tickets and giving fewer warnings, authorities said.

    Breen and other advocates applaud the crackdown. They point out that speeding — something most of us do without a second thought — is lethal.

    “Speed makes a huge difference,” Mackey said. “If you’re going 40 mph and you try to stop, after 100 feet you will still be going 38 mph. If you’re going 25 mph, you will have stopped.”

    For a few years, Breen’s partnership has been sponsoring its own crackdown: With money from a state grant the organization pays valley police officers overtime to walk into a crosswalk, testing drivers who have plenty of time to stop. Henderson, Boulder City and Metro police officers are not in uniform, but they are wearing brightly colored clothes.

    “If the motorist is more than twice the stopping distance and doesn’t stop, they’re pulled over and ticketed and educated about their role in pedestrian safety,” Breen said. The initiative has had a dramatic and lasting effect at a crosswalk in front of UNLV and at other high-crash locations., she added.

    Metro Traffic Sgt. Tracy McDonald said officers try to conduct such operations in the course of their normal shifts but rarely have time because they are constantly called to crash scenes.

    “The grant money helps us do more of it,” he said.

    McDonald said drivers cited for failing to yield would be fined at least $150. When they are pulled over, “90 percent of the time they know they did something wrong,” he said.

    But the bigger issue, Breen says, is that pedestrians should not be blamed for their environment, the circumstances they are powerless to change.

    It is not their fault that they cannot afford cars or are too young, too old or too disabled to drive. It is not their fault that they must use public transportation. It is not their fault that they choose not to walk miles out of their way to use ostensibly safe crosswalks — crosswalks that may not, in the end, protect them at all.

    “When I talk to groups, people invariably say, ‘Those damned pedestrians,’ ” Breen said. “Then I ask them, ‘When you go to the market, how many of you purposely park as far away as you can?’ ”

    Her point is that nobody wants to go out of his way or walk more than is absolutely necessary to get where he’s going. “And yet we instantly scream at pedestrians — we want them to walk a mile out of their way to cross at the signalized intersection.”

    • Me too, David!

      Every Clover driver I know (and I know several) has had at least one “accident” during the past ten years.

      I’ve had tickets.

  5. Actually I from western MA, just visiting the DC area for a while. The other clover I have come across here is the right turn-multiple lane clover. Where I’m from there aren’t many two lane roads, but here in MD everything is two lanes. It drives me nuts to be waiting in the right lane at a red light and the clovers in front of me won’t turn into the far right lane because a car is approaching in the far LEFT lane! They have TWO lanes to pull into and they stubbornly refuse.
    And clover, there were NO cars in front of the clover in the HOV lane. Go back to your mothers basement.

    • One of my “favorite” Clover maneuvers is the “come to nearly a full stop in the middle of the travel lane to make a right turn” gambit. Happened to me this afternoon, this Clover in a minivan comes to a long, slow near halt in the middle of the road in order to make a right turn while traffic piles up behind him.

      He/she/it was turning into a street called “Cloverdale Road” which at least was appropriate. Maybe there’s a whole neighborhood full of them. (Frightening thought!)

      • That Clover is a constant pest here, too!

        They will come to a near stop before even beginning their turn.

        All these problems are worsening because – for more than 30 years now – Cloverism has been fostered both socially and legally while competent driving has been systematically punished.

        • not to mention prudent personal finance, moral behavior, etc and so forth. We live in an upside down world. punish the prudent and the competent, reward the reckless and incompetent.,

          • CloverBrent you are a joke. We have seen your reckless driving and incompetence. You are one of the worst drivers on the road. With your superior so called driving you say that you can tailgate, you can follow someone in their blind spot, you can block someone from entering the interstate. Brent you are one of the worst drivers on the highway.

            • Hey, Clover –

              You assert that Brent’s driving is “reckless.” But what is the basis for this assertion? Has Brent caused a wreck? Has he lost control of his vehicle?

              If not, then isn’t your assertion that his driving is “reckless” just your opinion? Your feeling?

              After all, there’s nothing substantive or objective you can point to in support of your opinion… is there?

              And that’s what makes you a Clover.

              You feel… you have opinions…

              But you’re bereft of facts.

              And have no concept of either principles or ethics.

          • Eric, Clover doesn’t like that I don’t accommodate stupidity. I know for a fact 9 out of 10 people drive the way they do because they, like Clover are lazy and selfish and are used to other people getting out of their way. The more people who call the bluff the more effort Clover will have to do. Clover might actually have to wait for a gap in traffic! The horror!

          • CloverEric even you say it is not a good thing to tailgate. You call someone that does that a clover. Eric do you say it is a good driving habit to ride in someone’s blind spot? Eric do you say it is a good thing to block someone from entering the interstate? Eric I have not seen Brent’s record and I doubt he would show it. Anyone that drives that poorly has to have caused accidents. Eric even you are slightly better than Brent.

          • CloverBrentP 9 out of 10 people had someone teach them to drive to not ride someone’s bumper or rear fender. There are even signs on the interstate telling you to allow merging traffic onto the roadway. Brent if you followed even one of the rules of the road you would be a 10 times better driver. Brent before you say how badly others drive you need to fix your poor driving first. My 15 year old nephew drives better than you.

          • Not biting Clover.

            Somewhere on my home computer I have a slide from the Northwester University traffic safety people that says the merger must yield, In all the states I’ve been in, I have never seen a sign requiring those already on the interstate or limited access highway to yield for any sort of normal ramp.

          • I know Brent It is not Illinois rules of the road that you follow it is Brent’s rules. In the Illinois rules of the road this text is across from a picture of the merge sign found before all on ramps on the interstate. Brent is too good for the rules of the road, Brent’s rules state that everyone get the hell out of the way because Brent is coming through. Clover

            “Merging Lanes
            This sign tells you that two lanes of traffic going the same direc-
            tion will soon merge into one lane. Be ready to either change
            lanes or allow other traffic to merge into your lane. Merge signs
            appear on expressways just before expressway ramps. The driv-
            er on the expressway slows down to let the driver on the ramp

            Right next to this statement it says that Brent is an idiot so look out for him!

            • Clover,

              A good driver does his best to avoid doing anything that will disrupt the smooth flow of traffic. Like pull lazily in front of traffic and expect the traffic to accommodate him. He either waits until there is enough of a gap for him to pull out – and accelerate up to speed at his own pace – or he accelerates quickly enough such that the oncoming traffic is not forced to decelerate in order to avoid striking him.

              Same applies with regard to merging down to one lane from two.

              If the merging car is operating with the flow of traffic, letting him in is courteous and – critically – does not impede the flow of traffic.

              But what you’re defending is the Clover (you and yours) who waddles over at a speed well below that of the traffic flow, forcing the traffic to drop speed significantly – and invariably creating a Clover Conga.

              I will post a video of this variety of Clover later today!

          • Michigan statute

            (7) When a vehicle approaches the intersection of a highway from an intersecting highway or street which is intended to be, and is constructed as, a merging highway or street, and is plainly marked at the intersection with appropriate merge signs, the vehicle shall yield right of way to a vehicle so close as to constitute an immediate hazard on the highway about to be entered and shall adjust its speed so as to enable it to merge safely with the through traffic.

            Part of the rationale for this statute is that the person merging usually has more flexibility in controlling their vehicle than the person on the highway.

            Of course most people practice self preservation. If someone forces their way from the merging lane, the person on the highway can either hold their ground or give way. Often people will give way if possible, regardless of whether they have right of way, to avoid a potential collision.

            Different states may have different standards for deciding who have right of way. I tend to think that those in the lanes of travel have more right of way than those merging onto the lanes of travel.

          • Mith, Clover has been shown the law before. Clover ignores the law.

            Clover, As to your yet to be approved or deleted comment I will inform you again the ‘rules of the road’ booklet is _not_ the law

            (625 ILCS 5/11-905) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-905)
            Sec. 11-905. Merging traffic. Not withstanding the right of way provision in Sec. 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.
            (Source: P.A. 81-860.)

            Vehicles on the highway do not need to yield, just avoid crashing into lazy drivers like Clover.

          • I understand Brent it is Brent’s laws that need to be followed. Good driving is to make it more safe when cars merge onto the interstate. I know Brent that you are against good driving. If a car is doing the speed limit or following traffic flow when they are trying to merge you are not to speed up to block them and you should not be exceeding the speed limit and passing on the right in such a case in the first place.. You are to slow down to allow the merging car in front of you in or switch lanes. We know, libertarians are all about making driving worse for others. Libertarians are all about picking and choosing which laws or rules they feel like following.Clover
            It still cracks me up when a libertarian complains about someone breaking the law by driving in the left lane, passing too slowly and only doing 10 mph over the speed limit. Speed limits are not a law but slowing someone by a second is.

          • Clovereric you are somewhat right in that a driver should not pull out if someone has to slam on their brakes. If there are few openings in traffic flow and a car decides to pull out in front of you and you explode because you have to take your foot off the accelerator for a couple of seconds then you have mental problems. Eric you have no right to delay others for minutes so that you do not have to take your foot off the accelerator for a couple of seconds. If you believe that then you need to put an end to your misery yourself. If you believe that then I guess the world needs to revolve around all libertarians.

            • “Eric you have no right to delay others for minutes …”

              But Clover, shouldn’t they have left in plenty of time so as not to be in such a hurry?

          • eric, Wow, you are “somewhat” right. That’s real progress….not to the point of saying you are correct but still….. clover might actually be understanding that slamming on one’s brakes affects more than just the person who performs that maneuver.

          • Notice how Clover changes topics and personally attacks with falsehoods. Also to topics that have been covered before. It’s pure disruptive trolling.

            Clover is the one making the law is the law argument, but defends breaking the law with regards to right of way and just plain decent behavior because other people are ‘speeding’.

            That’s the usual refuge… ‘but you were speeding’. I encounter these people from time to time. My favorite are the clovers that run stop signs and otaher sloppy driving that then blame me for ‘going too fast’. In most of these instances I was bicycling. In one I remember I was driving the 25mph speed limit when a woman ran a stop sign forcing me to brake hard to a stop. She yelled I was ‘going too fast’. I pointed out she ran the stop sign, she accepted that fact but then insisted it was my fault for ‘going too fast’. This is the world of clovers. It’s all bout them. They can’t wait. They can’t be bothered. Other people have to make all the effort.

            On clovercam Clover repeatedly defended forcing other drivers to brake because then a person would have to ‘wait all day’ for a gap. It defends lazy driving time and time again.

          • CloverEric people have every right to pull out in front of you if it is safe to do so. It is you that gets furious if you are delayed a couple of seconds. You leave earlier. Eric when you get furious about someone following a 45 mph curve warning sign in the rain then it is you that has the problem. Why not end your miserable life because of your inability to live around others?

            • I don’t get furious, Clover. I simply go around them.

              And that annoys you.

              Because what you demand is that other drivers accept The Clover Standard and dumb-down their driving to the level of the least-competent drivers out there.

              Clovers would not be Clovers if, instead, they behaved courteously toward their betters and let them by – or at least, would refrain from flashing their brights and honking their horns in Cloveronian fury at their betters.

          • CloverMithrandir as usual you know nothing about driving. You say a merging car has more options than the car on the interstate? You say what? Are you that stupid? A car on the interstate has many options. They can switch lanes to avoid merging cars which most GOOD drivers do if they feel like merging cars may have a hard time entering. They also have the ability to slow slightly if they are behind the merging car to allow them to safely enter or they can speed up if they are slightly ahead to allow the car to fall in behind them. The merging car only has 2 options and +- 5 seconds to speed up or slow down to enter or his other option is to stop which is the worst option. You and Brent want the driver to stop because you are too lazy to let the car in. If you or Brent block 3 or 4 seconds of merging time with your block then the car will usually have to stop.The car that was on the interstate has superior view of all of his options. The merging car has to spend half of his time looking around for idiots like Brent that are hanging around their fender or speeding up to block them. Signs were put up on interstates to tell you to allow merging cars to enter because you were too stupid to think of it yourself but you and Brent avoid all good driving practices.

          • Clover,

            It appears that you are doing your typical effort of not reading (or comprehending) what others write.

            Your personal attacks aside, you are confusing (perhaps on purpose) right of way with a driver moving over from the right lane — when safely possible — to make it easier for cars to merge on the highway. One does not imply the other.

            If the highway is relatively full with vehicles it is often not safe nor practical for a car in the right lane to move a lane over to make it easier for on ramp vehicles to merge onto the highway.

            The car merging can look for a gap in traffic and adjust speed accordingly to fit in to the highway traffic. If there is no gap available, then the car needs to wait for a gap to become available.

            I have seen vehicles force their way into traffic. Usually self preservation kicks in and people react to avoid a collision with the vehicle forcing their way onto the highway. Sometimes the collision can not be avoided and they make the traffic report on the radio.

            The last half of your writing is awkwardly worded, appears to be personal attacks, and not make any coherent point.

            Your trolling adds little value to this discussion. Focusing on improving your writing and reducing the personal attacks on others will make it easier for me (and possibly others) to understand what you are attempting to communicate.

          • CloverMithrandir your statements now and in the past say it is OK to block other drivers from entering the interstate because you say that you have the right of way. The rules of the road agree with me in stating that it is you that also have to work to allow drivers to enter the roadway EVEN WHEN it DELAYS YOU A COUPLE OF SECONDS by making you slow down. It makes you and other libertarians furious to help others. It is because libertarians tend to be jerks.

            • Clover,

              “Mithrandir your statements now and in the past say it is OK to block other drivers from entering the interstate because you say that you have the right of way. ”

              If I have the right of way, then I am not blocking the Clover!

          • CloverEric if there are a large number of cars entering from the ramp with one ever 2 to 3 seconds then you even being in the right lane is a blocking event. Also when you are within a couple of seconds of the car in front or in back then you are again a blocking event. I can not help the stupidity of aggressive drivers like you and Brent and MIth that say you have the right to block cars. On multilane interstates with many on ramps you should not even be in that lane but people like you and Brent move to that lane to pass because between on ramps there are fewer cars. Then you say you have the right to not be impeded there from entering cars so you then use it as an illegal fast passing lane. I still do not know why you do not end your miserable life.

            • That thing on the floorboard, Clover… you know, that you push down on to make the car go?

              Try and use it sometime.

              If not, then wait.

              Basic etiquette.

              A concept beyond a Clover’s ken.

          • Clover,

            It appears that you are still doing your typical effort of not reading (or comprehending) what others write.

            Someone with the right of way is not equivalent to blocking another vehicle.

            If you can not properly merge onto the highway and you do not like waiting on the on ramp, then:

            • follow your own advice and leave earlier.
            • use secondary/tertiary roads

            Your trolling adds little value to this discussion. Focusing on improving your writing and reducing the personal attacks on others will make it easier for me (and possibly others) to understand what you are attempting to communicate.

        • eric, like clover said, you need to accommodate the clover by slowing down everything on an interstate highway, creating a dangerous situation for all, so that clover doesn’t have to reach the PSL and blend in. I was maxxed out with a load last week and passed an intersection on I-20 with a truck stop on either side. The entrance ramp was 1/2 mile long to let big rigs reach the PSL or whatever speed some clover governed their rig at, for safe blending. Here is this four-wheeler though with most of the ramp ahead of her, trying to pull in front of everybody, mainly big rigs instead of reaching the PSl and being able to safely converge. I gave a little blip on the horn but that seemed to only worsen the situation. There really is no help for some people.

          • CloverTell us Eightsouthman what is your solution? Is it to give them a ticket? Is it to pull a gun on them? We can not always change how others drive but we can get yourself, Brent, Eric and Mith to drive better because they are here. They refuse to drive better so how the hell do you plan on getting others to drive better? Mith and Brent are too lazy to switch lanes to allow merging, they are too lazy to adjust speed to allow merging. Wouldn’t the first step be to get yourself to drive at your best rather than to be the real problem?

            • A step in the right direction, Clover, would be getting them to comprehend the basics of driving etiquette. If they lack skill, at least they can be considerate – and drive in such a way that their lack of skill does not create problems for others. Or at least, fewer problems.

              Example: If you are afraid (or unable) to merge safely/efficiently by bringing your car up to speed quickly such that you do not interrupt the flow of the traffic you’re trying to merge with, then wait until traffic clears and you can “take your time.”

              Better yet, learn how to drive.

              Or, let someone else drive.

              I don’t favor the sort of testing/licensing rigmarole they have in Germany – but I’ll say this: It does keep Clovers off the roads. A person such as yourself would never “in a million years” pass their tests, which actually test ability to drive.

              You’d shit your pants – or kill someone – by driving obliviously in the passing lane on the Autobahn. A Porsche closing on you at 180 MPH would assume you’d be out of his way in time. But he’d assume wrongly.

              And of course, you’d whine it was all his fault for “driving recklessly.”

          • Eric a Porche would never drive 180 mph in heavy traffic because he would lose his license. Yes even on the Autobahn you can not do whatever the hell you feel like. There is reckless driving. Eric again you say that people need to learn how to drive? It is obvious you do not and Brent does not and Mith does not. We have not been able to get you to drive correctly. Your driving examples and Brent’s driving examples are very good examples of what not to do and good examples of the way people drive to kill others. Again Eric if we are not able to teach you how to drive then how the hell can we teach others? In one of your last videos you did not have a clue why there was a no passing zone. That is a pure example of a poor driver. You do not pass on a lane where you are not able to see cars entering that lane. That shows us how poor of a driver you really are. Then your get furious at another driver who follows a slow curve warning sign. That again shows us that you are a poor driver. Give us examples on how we can get you to drive better and we might be able to use that to help others learn how to drive.Clover

            • Wrong, Clover.

              Have you ever driven on the Autobahn? Been to Germany?

              High speed traffic is able to coexist with lower speed traffic because Cloverism is effectively banned there. If an arschloch such as yourself failed to get out of the way of higher speed traffic, said arschloch would be regarded as the cause of the wreck, not the high speed traffic.

              Because in Germany, you ugsome troll, it is the driver’s obligation to:

              Scan his rearview and anticipate the need to yield.

              You do not wait until the faster car has caught up – and been forced to slow down (because of you).

              You move the fuck over. You get the fuck out of the way.

              And yes, Clover. That is “the law” over there.

          • Yes Eric I do not live in Germany and neither do you. From what I have heard the truly high speeds you are talking about are only available on early Sunday morning. Yes, and if you are traveling 180 mph in Germany and you hit someone you are the one that will get the ticket if you live because you were traveling twice the recommended speed. Eric I agree that slow cars should keep to the right but your view is that slower traffic that travels the speed limit should not be on the road. Your examples of people driving poorly only shows that you should not even be driving. If you get furious if you have to take your foot off the gas for a couple of seconds to let someone enter the interstate or in other situations then you should not be driving but you should be in a mental institution or in jail.Clover
            I think I have said this before but my neighbor and I have talked about drivers on the road. If we are on a muti-lane road and there is a line way up ahead that turns yellow or red then I take my foot off the gas and coast. Many times the car beside me keeps accelerating towards the stop light and then slams on his brakes. I keep going and about the time I reach the stop light it is green and I fly by the aggressive driver. I am sure there are idiots behind me like you and Brent saying how furious they are at me for slowing down. I just wonder what they say when we both go flying past the aggressive car just starting to accelerate. I would bet anything that you would have been that driver that flew past me and slammed on his brakes at the stop light. Eric you say that you get furious at that nonaggressive driver but Eric for every minute I have been delayed by your so called slow driver I have been delayed for hours by the aggressive driver. How can we stop the driver that delays us for hours Eric?
            You and other drivers say how good it is to be in Germany. Why not move there? Our country would be far better off.

            • I’ve driven in Germany, Clover. I am familiar with the Autobahn. Lane discipline is a religion over there. People are trained to use their mirrors; to constantly scan and anticipate the need to move the out of the way. To do it before the car catches up.

              This is essential when you’re dealing with speed variance that can be 100 MPH. That speck in the rearview could be on your ass in seconds – if it’s a 911 doing 180.

              And yes, Clover, that is common over there.

              Which, incidentally, proves that very high speed traffic and low-speed traffic can co-exist without either being harmed or even inconvenienced.

              Provided neither is a Clover.

              On the rare occasion when I am driving slower than traffic – as when hauling a heavy load in my truck – I wave other cars by, I move off to the right to let them by. I do not just squat there like an asshole, like you do, with the attitude that “they can wait a few seconds” or “they should have left earlier so as to not be in such a hurry.”

              It’s uneducable assholes like you that have made driving torture in this country.

          • CloverFor one thing Eric I have to laugh if you think 180 mph during a normal week day is common. You are a joke. I heard that in most areas they have traffic problems exactly like we have. Why do you not move to Germany? Eric at a minimum 2 second following distance you could only get 10 cars per mile on each lane. Go around any major city and even the wide open areas, interstates would be unusable at that rate. There would be parking lots on the on ramps. Selfish brats like you would not allow hardly any cars on an interstate. Eric with the higher amount of traffic we have in our country we can not have anything goes speed. Even in Germany they do not. Go move there and find out for yourself. Heck, I would even pay for your move. Our country would be far better.

            • “For one thing,” Clover, you’ve admitted you’ve never been to Germany. Yet you know all about Autobahn driving conditions!

              The fact is, Clover, that German drivers are steeped in lane discipline and anticipate the need to yield to faster-moving traffic. What happens here routinely – assholes such as yourself just moping along in the passing lane, refusing to notice that they’re being overtaken, much less move right long before the overtaking car arrives – is almost unheard of there.

              “Selfish brat,” Clover? You’re the one insisting that other drivers drive at your speed. That they “wait a few seconds” (several minutes, usually; cumulatively, it’s hours and days) to accommodate your pace, your inattention, your lack of skill, your overcaution, you obliviousness. Guys like me, on the other hand, are not looking to hold you up; all we want is to get by you and proceed on our way. This is what you cannot abide, Clover. The idea that someone else might drive faster than you like – even though their driving fast in no way forces you to drive faster. Only that you move over.

              Again, I’d love to pose a challenge – which you’d never rise to.

              Let’s go to Germany and see which of us could pass their road test.

              I’ll wager a “million dollars” (using the “million dollars” you’ve owed me for months) you’d be taking the bus.

              As someone possessed of your limited abilities ought to.

          • CloverEric I do not drive like you do, I am never late except for the times that your aggressive drivers stop traffic for hours. Eric I could care less if I am delayed a couple of seconds or even a minute because I am free from your mental road rage. If there is a line of cars in front of me then I hang back a few seconds. Some of the cars in front of me are hitting the brakes and accelerator the entire short trip. I make it within seconds of them. Eric you drive like they do and I get to where I am going within seconds in most trips. I get great gas mileage, I endanger no one. With those facts you tell me who is the best driver? You constantly tell me how you are trying to save money but you burn up dollars with your poor aggressive driving. Eric your driving saves you nothing in quality of life. Isn’t that what all this is all about? Tell me why you need to aim loaded guns at someone to make it through life? To sum it up Eric, you are stupid. You do not have to challenge me with your driving because looking at the videos you have posted you already lost!Clover
            Eric I am 10 times better than the average snow skier. I do not fly and weave through a large group of average skiers because if anything happened by them, by my equipment or by an extreme change in conditions I could kill someone. The Ski patrol on the slopes would kick me off the slopes for adding danger to others even with my extremely good skills. They would also be right if they did it because I would be the stupid idiot for endangering others.

            With your poor driving we see that you just do not care. Eric you are a time bomb.

            • As usual, Clover, you deflect and avoid dealing with the issue at hand.

              I pointed out the fact that in Germany – where you’ve never driven, by your own admission – lane discipline is a near religion. And more, that people actually anticipate the need to get out of the way of overtaking traffic. They scan their mirrors as habit, and when they notice another vehicle coming up, they actually get out of the way before that vehicle reaches them.

              The result, Clover, is smoothly flowing, efficient – and safe – driving. It is why very high-speed traffic can coexist with traffic moving much more slowly. The example I gave was not hyperbole. It is routine for vehicles to be operating well in excess of 150 MPH, which is why it is essential that other traffic be aware, anticipate – and be out of the way before that high-speed traffic arrives. Which is exactly what happens. Because drivers over there know how to drive. And those who do not – you, for example – are prevented from driving. Both by law and by custom. Incompetents such as yourself are never licensed – and moreover, they are terrified of driving among people who can drive and who are not punished for knowing how to drive.

              But here – because of “drivers” such as you – the flow of traffic is interrupted constantly. Sudden, erratic slowdowns caused by incompetent merges, lane hoggers and other species of Clover who refuse to move over (or even use their mirrors).

              The seconds of delay you impose are actually minutes – and they scale, Clover. Millions of Clovers imposing minutes of delay every single day equals hours and days of delays. You are a time bandit, Clover!

              And, again: You are free to “take your time” and drive as old lady-ish as you wish. I have no problem with that, as such. What I do have a problem with is your obnoxious insistence that everyone else be forced to drive like an old woman to accommodate – to please – you.

              Which one of us is the selfish asshole, Clover? If I roll up behind you, I’ll simply pass you at the first opportunity. I have not impeded you – and my pass will be executed quickly, skillfully and safely. By a guy who is a vastly better driver than you will ever be.

              But you will honk your horn and flash your lights and shake your bony little fist at me. And – if you can – you’ll do everything in your power to make it harder for me to pass. You’ll speed up when you see I’m about to try to overtake. You’ll close the gap between your car and the car in the right lane (and of course, you will not simply put your signal on and move over).

              Who’s the asshole, Clover?

              It’s of a piece with your attitude toward such things as government schools for “the children.” I am “selfish” because I want to pay my own way – but not your way (or the way of your kids, which you chose to have). But you are a Great Human Being – because you support organized theft to support “the children” with other people’s money, taken from them at gunpoint.

              I’d love to put you in a blender, Clover. And feed the slurry to the hogs.

          • Clover, there’s no need to weave with lane discipline.
            Joan Claybrook said that weaving was safer because it forced people to drive slower.

          • CloverI have to laugh at your statements Eric. It sounded like you were talking about poor drivers like Brent. No lane discipline, hogging lanes. dangerous driving, speeding up and trying to block someone who is trying to pass you. All of the things describe Brent’s videos of his poor driving. Yes in one of his videos he had someone pass him and he was unable to block them so he took off as fast as he could to catch up to them. Then there is you. You think the left lane is yours. Someone passing another vehicle legally and you explode at them because you had to slow down when you caught up to them only because, yes you were speeding by 20 mph or more. You wanted them to be delayed and stay in the right lane because Eric has more rights. I am sure I drive a lot more miles in a year than you do Eric and I have never had the need to pass someone in a no passing zone. I have never had the need to drive 20 mph over the limit. I make it through life without your rage and frustrations. Go move to Germany Eric if you are unable to drive here. I am able to drive 15 to 25 thousand miles a year here without an incident of me having road rage. I tell you what Eric, show insurance agents your videos of yourself and see how many of them would insure you out of their own pockets. None would. Ask them if they would insure me with my proper speed, no tailgating, no passing in no passing zones, allowing cars to merge on the interstate safely and on and on. Eric I would never insure you. I would never insure Brent. Why is it Eric that I am able to make it through life driving more miles than you do without rage? It is you with the mental problems.
            Again Eric I am sure I have been delayed by aggressive drivers more than 10 times the amount of slower drivers. Clover
            I have seen videos of cars driving fast in Germany and it was always when traffic was very light and the other cars were in the right side of the right lane trying to get as far as possible away from the idiots. You say that is a good thing? I have also seen many videos of the idiot that takes videos of himself driving very fast and then crashing. Maybe that needs to be you Eric. Move to Germany.Clover

            • Hi Brent,

              Yup. And. he dissembles.

              Example: I explained (several times) that in Germany, drivers anticipate the need to yield; that they scan their mirrors and – when overtaking traffic is identified – will move out of the way before it overtakes. This smooths out the flow of traffic and makes it possible – makes it safe – for high speed traffic and lower speed traffic to coexist.

              Clover drives right by – spouting non sequiturs about “waiting a few seconds” and such.

              He’s dishonest and shifty, or simply so dumb he actually cannot engage in a coherent, logical discussion.

          • I tell you what Eric, if you can get your friends to drive the laws of Germany then I will make sure you are never delayed by a single second. Eric you will never get your friends to drive like they are required to in Germany. In Germany there is no tailgating, no passing on the right, no aggressive driving because other cars call you in, there is no speeding past posted limits and there is no passing in no passing zones. Eric I am all for German type of driving. Go for it. Clover

            Notes from Germany:
            ” Automatic cameras are stationed to catch speeders, red-light
            violators and tailgaters.
            When fog reduces visibility to less than 50 meters, the maximum speed you may drive is 50 km/h.
            The penalties for driving under the influence in Germany are harsh. Severe penalties are assessed to first time offenders, usually including the suspension of your license. Penalties for drunk driving now start with a blood alcohol limit as low as 0.03.
            Each vehicle in the through lane must allow one vehicle from the truncated lane to merge in. ”

            How many of your friends would be able to drive in Germany, Eric? I know that you would not make it. Yes Eric they allow high speeds in the wide open areas but all of your other driving actions would end you up in jail.

            • Notice the technique? Clover avoids – refuses to deal with – the original point made. In this case, that in Germany, high speed traffic and low speed traffic coexist safely because people scan their mirrors and when they notice an overtaking vehicle, they anticipate the need to move out of the way and do so before the traffic overtakes them.

              Why won’t Clover respond?

              Because Clover realizes – once again – he’s been made a fool of.

          • Eric, on changing the subject, as I’ve mentioned earlier I’ve been messing around on an anti-driving blog for giggles and understanding. There’s a lot of pro-bicycling useful idiots but the vast majority are just go-along left-statists. I will write one thing then they’ll act as if I wrote something entirely different and then dismantle what I didn’t write. It will be just close enough that in a verbal conversation or where readers don’t follow the entire thread to get away with. They’ll just drop or change a couple words in some instances.

            It’s really despicable and just like Clover here, except these people are literate. They also share numerous other traits with Clover. It’s really amazing the levels they stoop too. But I get under their skin like no troll could, because I hammer them with logic and facts.

            • Morning, Brent!

              You know what? I think many of them do this automatically/reflexively. It’s a form of real-world doublethink – and it’s so common ( I encounter it almost every week) that I suspect it is a manifestation of the way most people are taught to “think” – that is, to react – by government schools and so on. It’s a compartmentalized rather than a universalized way of looking at the world. A kind of unconscious utilitarianism devoid of conceptual, ordered thought.

        • @Eric- Why do you let Clover post here?

          I’ve read through clover’s awful comments here and seen multiple suggestions that you should kill yourself. Complete and total gibberish, no logical justification whatsoever. And we know he’s a troll.

          Yet when I actually tried to logically defend my religious views I was shot down. Because it was “offensive”.

          Mind you, its your property, so you can do what you wish, but do you think I’m dumber than clover? Or is there some other reason you let him post here?

          Here’s the bottom line: clover isn’t a real person. He’s a government hired troll. I think this is painfully obvious at this point. Real people at least try to engage with arguments if they are presented with them. Clover just posts the same things over and over again.

          Frankly, his comments aren’t entertaining IMO. He’s not a funny troll. Just an idiot.

          • Hi David,

            I let Clover’s posts through to let him make our case for us! As you correctly note, he’s a gibbering imbecile apparently incapable of even composing a complete sentence. He is therefore useful for purposes of ideological dissection.

            Your religious stuff has not been censored. I’m fine with you making an argument. What I don’t want on these pages is proselytizing. Writing that you “believe” gets us nowhere. People “believe” in all sorts of things. Bigfoot. UFOs. Shape-shifting reptiles. Jesus is Lord. No offense intended. But the point being, no matter how earnestly and sincerely you “believe” there is no point to discussing your mere belief. Now, on the day that Jesus manifests and everyone can actually hear him (as opposed to “believers” claiming they hear him) then you’ll have a fact you can argue with – and I’ll be ready to listen.

  6. Recently came across a clover on the 495 outside of D.C. I was in the carpool lane during rush hour. Traffic was almost at a standstill next to me but I was doing a good 65 until I came across a clover going 45-50. There was no escape.

    • CloverYes pisher I have seen many videos of your so called clovers driving slow in the left lane. In those videos the libertarians failed to mention that there was a car 2 seconds in front of the so called clover and cars in front of it. Again, Libertarians are blind and dumb.

      • Eric, you can live around no one. Even your libertarian friends would be a problem being around once you ran out of your hatred stories. Libertarians can only live miles from others. Eric says that he wants others to get the hell out of his way so he can break the law. Others have no rights. They need to change because Eric can not adjust his foot on the accelerator. He wants others to adjust for him. Others have no rights. It is all about Eric. Eric wants others to be delayed for minutes so he is not delayed for a second. Clover

        Tell me why libertarians have more rights than others? Tell me why it is fine for libertarians to increase the danger of life and property of others? Others just want to be left alone but Eric comes head on towards them in the wrong lane while passing in a no passing zone.

        • Correction, Clover:

          I do not want to live around people like you.

          Fearful/timid/overcautious drivers (e.g., the lead Clover in this video) are not the problem, per se.

          The problem (with that kind of Clover) is his (and your) insistence that others accommodate you.

          The guy was driving at least 10 MPH below the speed limit. Other drivers have every legal (and moral) right to drive faster than the Clover, Clover. To not be held up and forced to drive at the Clover’s crawl.

          What makes a Clover, Clover, is not slow driving. It is forcing others to drive slowly.

          Drive at whatever speed you are comfortable driving. But if someone’s behind you and clearly wants to get by, fucking let him!

          The second Clover was tailgating the first one. I thought you did not like tailgating, Clover?

          • Eric the only poor drivers I saw in the video was you and the tailgater. Libertarians tailgate more than any others. The clover was the first truck you were following. He was driving at a safe speed and distance behind the car in front of him and he made it to his destination in a timely and safe manner. You have mental problems and should not be driving.Clover

            If a policeman stopped to give you a ticket in this video I would have been in line to convict you ant put you in jail. It was raining out with a far from perfectly safe road. You have no right to drive faster than the car in front of you unless it is safe and legal to do so. I would have thrown the book at you.

            Tell me Eric what you were late for and why not allow a few more seconds? You are the idiot. If you would have allowed an extra minute for your trip you could have followed the truck you started the video with and stayed there. You and others would have safely reached your destination. Move to an area where you do not have to drive because you are incapable of driving around others.
            I was just talking to a guy today about drivers. He was complaining about drivers exactly like you. He gave an example where he was not driving slowly and was passed on a blind curve. Well up the road the car that passed him was sitting at the stop light directly in front of him. If drivers need to drive dangerously to try to save a few seconds then they should not be driving. Try leaving a minute or two earlier and you will save a lot of gas and never have to break the laws or endanger others. You are too stupid to understand that. You tell us about everything you have to do to save a buck but your driving does not demonstrate that. A few nights ago I was on an empty road and I decided to drive slowly and listen to the radio. I checked my mpg meter on the car at the end if the trip and it was around 52 which is almost 50% better than the rating on the car. I would bet that you have never been able to drive a vehicle at its EPA highway rating or above.

            • Clover eructs:

              “You have no right to drive faster than the car in front of you unless it is safe and legal to do so.”

              Well, Clover, it was legal.

              Legal passing zone.

              And the Clover was doing about 42 in a 55.

              As far as “safe”:

              Plenty of sight lines/distance to execute the pass; no oncoming traffic in the other (opposing) lane. I comfortably passed the dawdling Clovers and merged back right without incident. In no way did I imperil them or myself.

              Ergo, a safe pass. By definition.

              What you don’t like, Clover, is that I refuse to be impeded (when I can avoid it) by someone such as yourself. Someone who believes they are the arbiter of other people’s time. That other people should defer to them; to their over-caution, their poor sight, their not-so-great ability to judge time/distance relationships. I’m a better driver than you are, Clover. I have better eyesight, faster reflexes and a better-than-you sense of time/distance relationships. I have taken several road racing/high-performance driving/vehicle dynamics courses. I have a lot of track time under my belt. What that means, Clover, is that a situation which might seem “dangerous” to you isn’t for someone like me. Your problem is you project your limited abilities as a driver onto others – and resent it when someone with a higher level of skill than you possess refuses to drive at your dumbed-down level.

              It’s exactly as in the example I gave you before about Person A – sedentary, out-of-shape, has some physical problem – who expects Person B – an athlete in excellent shape who can run easily at high speed – to accommodate their slow-motion pace rather than move the fuck out of the way.

            • Hi Mith!

              On a fast sport bike such as the ZZR1200 in that video, very high speeds are extremely accessible. The power-to-weight ratio is often much more favorable than that of the most exotic supercars such as a Ferrari Enzo. You can “jump” from 80 to 150 in seconds. Which means, you don’t need nearly as much room (margin) as you would in most cars, even very quick/fast cars.

              This is one of the things that’s great about hi-perf. sport bikes!

          • CloverEric you are a dangerous driver. With your examples you are hundreds if not thousands of times more likely to create an accident than I am. In your video you showed us That there were miles of free and clear and safe road to pass at the end of your video but you are incapable of waiting another 30 seconds to pass where it was safe. Eric I could care less how much track time you have. I really doubt that your track time included wet road surfaces and side roads and driveways. Why don’t you take a shotgun to your head and end your misery before you kill someone else.

            • Really, Clover?

              If I am “hundreds if not thousands of times more likely to create an accident” then why have I not created one?


            • If Clover knew anything about high-performance driving courses, he’d know the skid pad is often wetted down. And by the by: You have traction in the wet, Clover. Just a lower threshold of grip. The reason the skidpad is wetted is to experience grip threshold/loss at lower speed.

              The point, Clover, is that an untrained marginal such as yourself has no clue where the threshold of grip is, nor what to do when it is reached.

              I, on the other hand, do.

              Which is why I know it’s safe (for me) to drive at speed that (to you) would feel dangerous.

              This is natural. And understandable.

              I don’t expect you to drive at my pace. I know it’s too fast for your comfort (and skill level).

              But I’ll be got-damned if I accept being made to drive at your comfort and skill level.

              And so, I pass you.

              Why does that upset so you so?

              Because you’re a control freak. You can’t stand the idea of anyone doing other than you do.

          • Going back and looking at the video there was a 45 mph turn sign on the road. Eric all I can say is that if you need to drive 65 mph on wet road surfaces that have a recommended 45 mph speed then you do not belong on the road. Clover

            What credentials do you have to recommend the speed of a road? I say it is poor recommendations. You do not have 65 mph speeds when there is no edge to the road, where there are blind entrances and curves and hills. Like I said before, you need to put an end to your misery and stupidity.

            • Poor ol’ Clover can’t even tell the difference between a posted speed limit (white sign, legally required to obey) and an advisory (yellow; not legally required to obey) sign!

            • Clover warbles:

              “What credentials do you have to recommend the speed of a road?”

              That’s just the point! (Excusing your illiterate construction; I had no idea roads could “speed.”)

              Speed limits are arbitrary, Clover. They are one-size-fits-all legal constructs – nothing more. A given speed limit may seem silly to me – and just right to you. And by the same token, there are speed limits you consider silly (but which someone else may consider “just right”).

              Who’s right, Clover?

              This, incidentally, is why you “speed,” too. Don’t deny it. Everyone “speeds” – even Clovers. Or are you going to lie and claim you always obey the speed limit?


              The difference between us, Clover, is that you believe your “speeding” is reasonable and safe.

              But mine is “dangerous” and “reckless.”

          • clover, what would you know about the distance the truck leaves as being “safe”? If it’s less than a couple hundred yards it’s probably not safe. I see the clover caused wrecks on almost a daily basis and a great many more clover almost wrecks several times a day. They’re the ones that cause that big bunch up on the interstate or a long line of traffic on two lanes with everybody looking for a way around. I blew by(finally got a chance)a clover in a pickup pulling a little tiny trailer with nothing but a garage sized trash container on it. No telling what he was doing. As I passed, I see it’s a guy about my age and he turns and appears to be cussing me. I can’t begin to guess what his problem was since I was legally going 15 mph faster than him. I guess he wanted everyone else, including the car behind him I passed at the same time, to do that Conga line thing all the way to the next town. It’s time’s like that I wish I had an automatic cut-out on my exhaust just to give him a little razz. 12 liters of Cat exhaust would make him close his mouth for a while anyway.

            BTW, for some reason, truckers exhaust out the bottom in Mexico. Not sure why but it’s horribly loud. Send clovers there so they have a really good reason to not get passed AND keep their windows up, preferably with milar on them so we don’t have to look at them. Actually, clovers are the very ones who scare everyone else by not meeting your eye, the only way to tell if someone sees you or not. I depend on that eye to eye thing and loath those who don’t appear to be looking.

          • CloverYes Eric that shows us your stupidity. You want a lowly clover driver which you claim as poor to be driving 65 mph in a recommended 45 mph curve in the rain? You really do have mental problems and have about a 20 IQ. Yes Eric the thing about wet surfaces is that you do not know exactly how much traction you do have. Eric if there is no one around you and you decided to drive 65 mph in the rain around that 45 mph curve then I say go for it. Hopefully there is a tree right off the edge of the road.

            • No, Clover.

              I want to get around the lowly Clover – to not have him block my way. Nor insist I drive at his (your) pace.

              Speed limits are so under-posted, Clover, that a competent driver can exceed them by 30 or more MPH without coming close to either the limits of traction or his limits as a driver.

              Which is precisely why speed limits are absurd. Because, Clover, they are not limits. Oh, in a legal sense, perhaps. But the maximum safe/reasonable speed? To drive any faster is to be driving “on the edge”?


              Piles and piles of it, reeking and swarmed by flies.

          • Eric I am sure your ability to drive may not be a problem it is your judgment. Some of the best race car drivers in the world have caused traffic accidents. Why is that Eric? It is not a problem with their reflexes or driving ability because I am sure they could wipe you off the track with their abilities. It is the judgment of such drivers that is the problem. They are used to known conditions of the track when they race and where other drivers are coming from. On the highway all of that changes. It is exactly why you were too ignorant to figure out the difference in one of your last videos and did not have a clue why in one spot there was a no passing zone and in the other there was. The surface was the same but the environment around the road changed. You drive with blinders on and expect others to get the hell out of your way even when you are wrong.
            Eric when you do eventually cause an accident I would hope that you get the harshest penalty available because your driving is no different than shooting a gun towards someone a quarter of a mile away. Eventually you will hit them.Clover

  7. 1 The rainy day clover. AKA the safety clover. The one who childishly demands everyone else be delayed rather than he do the obvious right thing.

    Well documented. Totally debunked. So many have learned so much about the importance of not being this misery inducing clover. Of engaging instead in productive right behaviour.

    2 Next we have the save the day clover. AKA the hero clover. The one who childishly demands everyone else finance and be conscripted into his pointless bankrupting missions instead of pulling his own weight and doing honest work.

    Fully illustrated. The lies all laid bare. So many have learned so much about the importance of not being this violent parasitic clover. Of engaging instead in productive peaceful endeavours.

    3 But what is to be the word regarding our resident holy day clover. AKA the let’s play Peter Pan and never grow up clover. The one who childishly demands postponing making a living and enjoying your limited time to instead engage in fantasy and make believe.

    To get everyone else to do the same and spend your days in engaging in pointless pretendings instead of making your own choices and having the courage to live your own life you choose for yourself.

    Clovers who won’t even let you join them the way you want if you were interested. Because this clover is a grown ass man who still believes: “I can fly!” “The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you lose faith and cease forever to be able to do it.” “Come to my specific Never Never Land!” “Not the one you might prefer.” “Come with me, where moralizing dialectical dreams are born, and every minute is sacredly planned. These are all happy things, and your heart will fly on wings, forever, in Never Never Land!” “and besides, otherwise, your wings will burn off and you’ll be condemned to excruciatingly painful flames forever.”

    “How can you fail to see the truth I’m offering? I know the words of the one true Fairies, and they have chosen me and my flock alone to know the one true things so come with me.” “Or else, fuck off and burn, I gave you your shot, you sinful hateful ignorant blaspheming Fairy-denier Infidel Heathen Amoral Lustfilled Disgusting Greedy Slothful Pridefilled Envious Gluttonous Sinner No I’m Not Dehumanizing And Wrathful I Love You And I Deeply Care About You And Your Soul!”

  8. Eric,

    re: tailgate clover
    See the tale of what can happen to those who follow too close from Tor

    It brought a smile to my face when I read his tale.

    Nice video. I can’t tell via the video, but I am assuming that you have enough traction from how you passed the other cars. To bad the minivan driver did not choose to pull over briefly to let the line go. Grand Marquis needs to either pass or fall back. Imitating a lamprey on the bumper of the car in front is asking for trouble.

    • Hi Mith,

      My camera (Contour Roam) gives a somewhat “fish-eye” view of the world. It’s hard to get a sense of speed – and objects often appear slightly distorted.

      In this video: The road is a lightly traveled rural highway; speed limit is 55 – and most non-Clover traffic is running in the 60s.

      The under-posted speed limit distorts everything.

      If a reasonable speed on a sunny/dry day is 65 MPH, then on a rainy day, slowing to 55 or so would be reasonable. But because the limit is unreasonable (55 on a dry/sunny day is Clover Speed) you have Clovers dropping down to even less reasonable speeds (40-45, as in this video) when it rains.

      And if it snows….

      • I’d think “reasonable speed” very much depends on the person.

        I have no qualms about Eric Peters driving 55 in the rain, or even 75 if he really wants to. I trust you to know how to drive.

        Clover… well… if he were to drive what you consider “reasonable” he might kill someone.

        Heck, I probably would to, but at least I’m aware of my own limitations, “the law” aside…

        I don’t know much about driving so I normally refrain from commenting on driving topics, but there you go…

        • Exactly, David.

          Individual skill varies – hence, the one-size-fits-all speed limit regime is inherently ridiculous. Driver A might be driving above his skill level at a speed below the lawful maximum. Most of us have seen (or know) such drivers. Yet they are driving legally. On the other hand, Driver B might be in more control of his car at 20 MPH above the posted limit than Driver A. Yet he is subject to legal punishment, even though there is no reason – other than legalism – to punish him.

          It is absurd – and it’s unfair.

          A much better approach, in my opinion, would be to post speed advisories – which can be helpful to those not familiar with a given road. But “speeding” – as such – ought to be done away with as a traffic offense.

          Instead, how about loss of control? Or – if the situation warrants – reckless driving?

          It’s axiomatic that if a driver wrecks, he has lost control of his vehicle. That is an objective fact. (As opposed to “speeding,” which is a bureaucratic construct).

          Who could argue that in such a case, the driver is culpable?

          The why is not especially relevant. He may have been driving too fast for conditions, or above his skill level. Or failed to adjust/anticipate. The relevant fact is – he lost control. (This, by the way, is of a piece with “impairment.” Does it matter whether the driver who ran a red light and hit your vehicle did so because they were impaired by alcohol – or poor vision? The relevant fact is they failed to keep their vehicle under control.)

          Now the question becomes: Was it the sort of thing one could reasonably describe as a minor judgment lapse? Such as over-corrected after a wheel dropped off the pavement onto a low shoulder? Or was it something that could fairly be described as reckless – such as (per Clover) driving onto someone’s lawn at high speed and running over a kid who happened to be playing there?

          Either way, there is an actionable harm. The person who did it actually did something (caused harm) and (if not a sociopath) will feel guilt/remorse. He will not feel resentment (legitimately) and anger (also legitimate over being dunned and hassled over a non-crime such as “speeding.”

          A natural balance is restored.

          Only people guilty of having done something (caused harm) are held to account. Everyone else – the people who’ve harmed no one – is free to go about their business, without worrying about roadside robbery made legal via manufactured “offenses” such as “speeding.”


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