Elon’s Undoing

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The death of the perpetually tardy Model 3 may ultimately have less to do with it being an overpriced electric car than with something even more lethal to its chances . . .

It’s a too-small sedan.

Electric or not, they aren’t selling. Even the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord – both of them just redesigned – are experiencing sales dips. If these formerly perennial hot-sellers are in trouble, it’s a clue that something is seriously awry with this kind of car rather than any particular car.

Others are spiraling toward the ground at freefall speed, like a plane with both wings shot off. Ford, as most everyone has heard, is going to stop making sedans – period. Death warrants have been signed for the Taurus and Fusion. Cadillac just cancelled the unloved ATS. The Chevy Impala will soon sleep with the fishes. 

The why is easy enough to understand. Most new sedans are too small – for people and for cargo.

Especially mid-size sedans in the family car price range like the Camry, Accord and its various rivals. Consider the specifications of the Camry in relation to the crossover SUV it’s related to, the RAV4.

The Camry is 192.7 inches long overall vs. 183.5 inches for the RAV4 – but the Camry is less roomy inside, particularly for cargo. It has a comparatively measly 15.6 cubic foot trunk with limited access vs. 38.4 cubic feet of space behind the RAV4’s second row, which can be folded flat to expand that space to 73.4 cubic feet. Whip out your calculator and do some quick division. The RAV4 has almost five times the cargo space than the much longer (and so less easy to park) Camry’s got.

This is a big deal for families who need space – and appreciate the versatility.

The Camry’s trunk . . .

The RAV and other crossovers have something else the Camry hasn’t got: The option to buy all-wheel-drive. This feature is available with almost every crossover on the market – even the low-cost models. But very few sedans in the family car class/price range even offer it.

Now consider the Model 3.

It is a smaller sedan, with even less room for passengers and cargo than sedans like the Camry and Accord – most notably for the backseat passengers. It has only 35.2 inches of legroom, almost three full inches less than the Camry offers (38 inches) and with the same relative deficit of cargo capacity vs. a comparably sized (or even smaller-sized) crossover like the RAV4.

The RAV4’s cargo area…

No all-wheel-drive, either.

Worse, from the standpoint of a mass-market car – which is how Elon is marketing the Model 3 – it is a rear-drive car.

Performance car fans prefer rear-drive for the high-speed handling advantage of divorcing the wheels which steer from the wheels which propel, but this comes at the cost of wet and snow-day traction. Everyone who knows even a little bit about cars knows that rear-drive cars are not-great in the wet and helpless when it snows.

In inclement weather, it is better to be pulled than pushed.

The Model 3 will have the compensating factor of having its electric motors rear-mounted, like an old VW Beetle’s engine. This weights the rear-drive car’s usually light rear end and so enhances traction. But unlike the rear-engined/rear-drive Beetle – which was good in the snow – the Model 3 will not have tall and thin pizza-pan wheels that cut through the snow to the road below.

That was the real key to the old rear-drive Beetle’s winter-weather tenacity.

No one – including Tesla – mounts such sensible wheels (and tires) on cars anymore. Especially Tesla. The Model 3 comes standard with 18×8.5-inch wheels (wider than the Camry’s standard 17 inch wheels) fitted with short sidewall performance tires that will steamroller and slide all over the road when it snows. The Model 3’s standard wheel/tire package is almost as functionally absurd as its electric powertrain, which takes 12 hours to recharge completely on standard household current.

And it sits low to the ground, compounding the poor-weather problem.

Crossovers – even the front-wheel-drive ones – sit higher up, and that clearance is a big help in poor weather. People also seem to prefer sitting up high, because they are able to see better. Crossovers fit the bill. Low-riding rear-drive luxury-sport sedans don’t.

And that italicized thing may be the final thing, nail-in-the-coffin wise. Not just for the Model 3 but for today’s sedans generally. They have all become luxury-sport sedans – BMW emulators in looks as well as how they ride and how tight they are inside. Their “sporty” center consoles and low rooflines combine to produce a claustrophobic effect, even when there is generous legroom – as in the new Camry (but not in the Model 3).

Meanwhile, Americans have grown larger. They do not fit comfortably in luxury-sport sedans, especially the mid-sized and smaller ones, like the Tesla 3.

Particularly in the back seat.

The Tesla 3 would probably fail for all of these reasons even if it weren’t an electric car.

Now add to the mix that it is an electric car. An expensive electric car.

Let’s see: Cramped, terrible in poor weather and costs a small fortune…

Toyota and Honda are having trouble selling the less-cramped, decent in poor weather and far more affordable Camry and Accord sedans. Which don’t take 12 hours to recover their wind before you can get back on the road.

People holding Tesla stock might want to give it some thought.

. . .

Got a question about cars – or anything else? Click on the “ask Eric” link and send ’em in!

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164 COMMENTS

  1. Here’s a good article on the benefits of a tall, narrow tire for most off roading situations (as it relates tothe Beetle).

    http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

    The article isn’t loading at the moment, so hopefully it isn’t gone.

    Makes the argument that a tall, narrow tire has a higher contact pressure, allowing better traction. It also provides benefits when airing down, as it increases the contact patch more longitudinally than a wider tire would laterally.

    • Thanks, Freak!

      I’ve owned several Beetles – the real ones, not the new ones. And I can attest they are immensely capable in snow, their chief limitation being ground clearance rather than traction. But if you get stuck, just dig it out – and get back on the road!

  2. Wow! 156 comments and no attempted rebuttals from a Teslavangelist!
    I am saddened to hear about the pain and health problems you are going through Bevin, and I likewise have always regarded your posts very highly! Please do get well soon. You too 8S.
    I have likewise just begun the Keto diet, and I am pleased to read that others have had success using it. I concur that the diet tastes great and is very filling. Cauliflower heads can be ground into a rice-like form, and tastes great with melted cheese. I also love lasagna made with zucchini squash and grass-fed ground beef.
    I have been away for awhile because I have been reading about Shaminism and Wicca. Christians please note that you have been lied to by your clergy about the beliefs of those religion’s. They do NOT worship Satan. They do not even believe in the existence of Satan, and their attitude is the Satan was created by the clergy to control the people, and that the Catlicks and Protestants are welcome to keep him. I am not saying that I have now joined them, but I have found their beliefs to be quite interesting. Bevin, if you have the time, you might check them out. You know my contact info on Facebook if you have questions. They are indeed polytheistic and are nature based. What caught my attention about them is that they share many attributes with anarchists. They are anti-hierarchy, believe in a version of NAP (an ye harm none, do as thy wish), and are quite individualistic. Don’t believe the BS about them put out by Hollyweird.

    • Brian, you got it backwards: The clergy didn’t invent Satan; Satan invented the clergy- to get people to follow him, while thinking they are worshipping God- even though the Scriptures which most profess to follow condemn the very practices and beliefs set forth by the clergy.

      But references to Satan are a LOT older than the Calf-licks or even Chriistianity itself.

  3. The size argument for the Camry / Accord segment is a little strange:

    The current versions are about as big as they have ever been.
    So, when they were smaller they still had great sales, how can they now be too small?
    Yes the country is getting fatter and fatter, but that can’t produce the sea-change just in the last 1-2 years?

    maybe the country is just so tapped out financially, dunno.

    In any case, here is a great piece from ZeroHedge about Tesla and the model 3:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-29/are-teslas-self-proclaimed-worlds-safest-cars-actually-among-worlds-deadliest

    While Consumer Reports is hardly a car person’s go-to rag, the cite ZH makes to their recent review is pretty damning.
    That’s more than just crappy stopping capability!

    And STILL they have about 500,000 fools waiting for this POS to be delivered.
    At least in East Gemany the Trabbi-list waiters had no choice but to wait, but these dunces are just stupid

  4. E-loon has officially fallen from grace!

    Saw a headline that proclaimed that in Musk[rat]’s criticism of the media, he made a remark to the effect of “You know who owns the media…”- and now they’re labeling him an “anti-semite”! When they start using the PC SJW crap against someone, that’s proof-positive that they are done.

  5. Keto is a low carb/no sugar diet focused on eating animal proteins, leafy greens, etc. If you have Netflix, the documentary “Magic Pill” details the scientific evidence behind it, as well as a half dozen cases of people in terrible health turning their lives around. I am normally skeptical, but have been hearing natural medicine doctors like Mercola endorse a keto-like diet for years. My mother-in-law was 1 point away from being diabetic, and has been doing it as well with me. I have literally watched a complete change in my body chemistry, and if it wasn’t for the fact that it is happening to me, I would have likely dismissed this as some new fad. There is significant evidence that eating high fat diets, actually helps beat cancer (because cancer cells can only reproduce/replicate with glucose (carbs/sugar) and helps reduce blood pressure/cholesterol.

    • Hi Jershie,

      In addition to the likely health benefits, it’s much easier, at least for me, to lose weight on a keto diet than a low fat/high carb diet. There is much debate about whether the diet creates a metabolic advantage over other diets and if this accounts for the rapid weight loss many experience. Personally I don’t think one needs to make this claim to explain the weight loss results of a keto diet. I suspect that the major factor is the satiety advantage of a keto diet. Once your body converts to burning fat for fuel, it doesn’t crave calories as, even thin people, have large fuel reserves available that do not need to be ingested. The first time I went keto, I chose not to restrict calories or force myself not to eat when hungry. I also recorded everything I ate, along with the nutritional info. I was surprised to find that I was only ingesting 1200 – 1500 calories per day without any hunger or conscious calorie restriction. Past attempts to lose weight on a calorie restricted high carb/low fat diet were miserable. I was hungry all the time, even though I was eating more calories than I consumed, without hunger, on a keto diet. I went strict keto on February first and maintained it for 40 days. In that time I lost 30 pounds. Since then, I’ve stayed on a roughly primal diet and maintained the weight loss without hunger. I plan to go full keto again next month to lose the additional weight I want to shed.

      It’s surprising to me that most diet comparison studies don’t attempt to control for hunger. I’d love to see a comparative study on non-calorie restricted diets that provides information to the test subjects about the calorie requirements to achieve weight loss targets but allow the subjects to eat as much as they want, restricted to the types of food consistent with each diet. Caloric intake would be objectively recorded and hunger levels would be subjectively reported. I suspect that such a study would show that those on a keto diet would consume fewer calories, lose more weight and report less hunger than those on a low fat/high carb diet. I suppose that because hunger is subjective and cannot be objectively measured, researchers would consider such a study unscientific. However, it seems obvious that, if one wants to help people lose weight and keep it off, hunger is the most important factor. After all, it seems somewhat crazy that the dominant weight loss advice (eat less, exercise more) is exactly the same advice our mothers gave to us to “work up an appetite” in advance of a special dinner.

      Kind Regards,
      Jeremy

    • Thanks, Jershie!

      I am already 75 percent or so on this plan – the occasional blueberry muffin is hard to resist. But, I second what you and others have said here about avoiding carbs and sugar. I eat meat without worrying about how much and my weight is within 15 pounds of what I weighed in high school. I am trying to buckle down and get back to what I weighed back then – on account of no heaf cayuh inshowance. Being healthy is my insurance!

  6. ” Everyone who knows even a little bit about cars knows that rear-drive cars are not-great in the wet and helpless when it snows.”

    Humbug. Just can’t drive around on bald tires (or tires that simply suck) and need some skill. Otherwise they are just fine. helpless in the snow? no.

    • Right-O, Brent! From the invention of the car, until just recently, the vast majority of drivers have been getting along just fine with RWD in places like NY, MI, WI….even Canada…..

      My mother lived in small town in upstate NY in the 40’s, where it snowed a LOT- and they had an old car from early 30’s. Never had a problem getting around. Even made trips down to NYC in winter…..

      Seems like people have more trouble now, with all of the AWD, FWD and 4×4’s….but not knowing how to drive, and thinking that the extry traction makes them invincible.

      • As a recovering leukemia patient (I had a stem cell transplant in March, and am doing very well recovering TYVM), I would encourage anyone who has cancer to take all “alternative cures” with a large grain of salt, and discuss these things thoroughly with your oncologist. In 25 years of driving people around in my taxis, I have met a great many doctors. Add to this the number of medical pros I have met with my bout with this deadly disease. I have come to several conclusions. Most doctors, especially the specialists, get into the field because they want to help people recover from illness, and they love problem solving. They are also very, very careful people, and are not into experimenting with their patient’s lives. They do read the scientific literature, including research papers on newer, “alternative” treatments. Few are “bought off” by the pharmaceutical industry. My oncologist actually went out of his way to get a second opinion from another hospital about my condition because he wanted to make sure his diagnosis was correct.
        In a consultation one day, I asked him about vitamin C.
        He told me, “Mr. Farah, if I were convinced that vitamin C would cure cancer, I would sell my office, buy an orchard, and open a vitamin C clinic.” He then told me about the problems he had with research he had seen about vitamin C’s efficacy. This man is not an ignorant person; he stays on top of the research in his field. And most specialists I have met are like him in this regard.
        Yes, ask your doctor about CBD oil, or a change in diet (they will probably recommend CBD oil for pain alleviation, much as my doctor did. They may do extra blood work to check vitamin and mineral levels; mine did and actually prescribed vitamin D supplementation. They will also get you in touch with a nutritionist to help with your diet). If your case is severe enough to warrant it, your doctor may also help get you into various clinic trials where new treatments (including “all natural”) ones are being tried.
        Doctors are reluctant to prescribe things that will injure or set back a patient. In many cases of early stage cancer, they take a “watch & see” position, and actually do nothing but monitor your condition. Most oncologists like to prescribe the minimum of medication that will help, knowing that chemotherapy can have devastating effects on things other than the targeted cancer. This is why, BTW, many universities & research facilities are researching better delivery methods to target just the cancer.
        Few oncologists are taken in by the latest fad miracle cures, such as garlic extract or vitamin K, or eye of newt & toe of frog. They actually read the research papers. And there is a huge difference between something killing cancer cells in a petri dish and the same treatment reversing cancer in a patient.
        If you don’t like your oncologist, or feel that he is not open to alternative treatments, or whatever, change doctors, and find someone who will listen to you.
        There is a time and a place to be cynical, especially in regards to crony capitalists & politicians. However, the vast majority of oncologists do not operate like Elon Musk.
        Don’t be trying to self medicate based on some website, or random online advice; do the research, bring it to your oncologist, and go with his advice.
        And two more things. Learn how to read a CBC, and how to read & understand a scientific research paper.

    • Dear Brent, Nunzio,

      Traction with a front engine rear differential car is reduced, but as those of us old enough to have grown up with them know, not non-existent. Adequate for most purposes.

      El Caminos and Rancheros probably were the worst case scenarios as far as weight imbalance was concerned.

      • bevin, El Camino’s are made from station wagon frames. They have a better weight transfer than the sedan or coupe and will go like stink in deep sand, snow and mud, esp. with P Trac. My 77 will go places in sand that only 4 WD’s will go. Many Elco’s have been used as drag cars.

    • Hi AF,

      Elon appears to be coming unglued… he is now attacking the press, the very press which has fawned over him for years. It is going to be an interesting next several months!

      • He and his fanbois think they are getting treated badly by the media these days. Little do they know the media is still treating them quite well. I have yet to actually see anything even close to the hit pieces done on other automakers done to TM. Just news reports of spectacular crashes of Musk’s fancy electric cars. No in depth news reports on how self driving features fail or anything, yet.

      • Eric- I would lighten up on old Elon. I don’t like his products either, but he is probably more like us than, say the politically correct GM CEO or the douchebags at Ford who are discontinuing sedan production as gas prices skyrocket this year. Clearly, we are not “winning.” If it is winning, I’m sick of it.

  7. >” The problem with being a little guy is that you receive the advice last, when it’s time to sell”<

    If their advice was worth a damn, they would be practicing it, instead of telling other people their "expert" opinion…..

    • Hi Axis Sally,

      Me either. The Model S, at least, looks okay. The 3 looks pretentious; a small sedan trying to punch outside of its class.

      • The Tesla Model 3 is the new “Silicon Valley Civic”, that used to be an honor held by the BMW 3-series. I see tons of them. It’s not horrible looking, just a bit strange since there is no air intake in the front for the radiator. The interior is also quite nice, but the screen in the middle is terrible, there are no physical buttons for anything. You even open the glove box by going through a menu on the screen. One thing that’s odd are the tail lights – I thought that Uncle mandated the amount of light coming out of them, all the Model 3’s have is a single line of maybe 8-10 LED’s for each tail light. They’re not very visible because they’re a thin little line.

        All that being said, they’re not put together very well. I saw tons of uneven panel gaps, rubber seals peeling off in a weeks old car, and the lines at public charging stations are now epic. It takes half a day to charge one of these up to maybe 80% from close to empty. Usually, there are maybe 4 chargers in city parking lots, and lots of people commute in these things. There are now apps which keep track of your turn at the charger, how long you’ve got to charge, etc. The electric car owners that I work with spend all day playing charger musical chairs so that they have just enough juice to get home.

      • Eric- I would lighten up on old Elon. I don’t like his products either, but he is probably more like us than, say the politically correct GM CEO or the douchebags at Ford who are discontinuing sedan production as gas prices skyrocket this year. Clearly, we are not “winning.” If it is winning, I’m sick of it. I am kind of glad that Elon is tiring of the press. Maybe he will jump to our side and realize that IC is the only way to go.

          • Swamprat did. lol. Seriously, I think that the major car manufacturers are even worse than Elon. That’s the only point I was trying to make. I had too much beer when I wrote that Elon might jump to our side.

            • Swamp, the fed uses what now is 100’s of million of taxpayer money to help the car companies, mostly in trying to make car buyers feel better about what POS they’ve currently bought.

  8. Drove my one-rear-wheel drive (no posi) wide tired (245’s), V8 all this past winter, and we had a relatively bad one in Northern NJ. Lots of snow.
    And I even have a 4×4 pickup, but I was just curious how much the big 300 could handle. It did better than expected, even on crappy OEM all-season tires.
    Now I would much prefer to have a posi, and then I would have little trouble at all, but most manuf. won’t put them in or offer them, as the rear becomes very easy to slide out. But I prefer it.
    Now to be fair, my wife couldn’t have done it, or probably most of my friends.

    • Hi Chris,

      I read – and I believe! 🙂

      Like you, I can deal with snow in a RWD car without a limited slip axle. But guys like us are in the dwindling minority. Tesla needs a mass market car – and a RWD luxury sport sedan isn’t that car… even if it weren’t electric!

      • I used to drive a 1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon that performed very well in the snow, despite being RWD. I remember helping pushing fellow motorists in their Volvo 245s out of the snow (them being stuck) with my Ford. It had the 200 cubic inch I6.

  9. One thing that I’ll never understand is the almost non-existence of station wagons, given the reason that many choose a CUV over a sedan is simply for the interior room. If we are to believe that the two biggest factors influencing buyers to purchase a CUV over a sedan are 1) higher seating position and 2) more cargo room, then wouldn’t the popularity stack up like this: CUV > station wagon > sedan? In other words, since station wagons have the advantage of the cargo area of a CUV and the better gas mileage and handling of a sedan, wouldn’t they be MORE popular than sedans?

    Personally, I don’t care for the poor handling of CUVs (I live in an area of windy steep roads) but love the cargo area of my Sable station wagon. It actually has quite more room inside than a Ford Escape (despite better mpg), and handles better.

    Why should buyers have to choose between a sedan and CUV considering that station wagons bridge the gap?

    • You’re wondering what happened to the station wagon? In the US, the EPA happened to the station wagon. The SUV was originally built on a truck frame, and they used truck rules in the EPA’s “fuel economy and emissions fatwas” (great coinage by Eric). Station wagons, on the other hand, were cars, and had to conform to the car fuel economy and emissions rules. They simply could not compete, on the car rules, and have essentially gone extinct, not because of the not because of the desires and non-coerced choices of buyers market, but because of the bureaucrats who get no reward for pleasing consumers, and pay no penalty for disdaining and thwarting them.

    • Yeah. Whatever happened to the Subaru Station Wagons … or the Baja. I like Bajas and would fit my needs better than the ranger, but not on price.

      My guess, SW were seen by the yung’uns as dorky family car, like minivans.

      • My mailman has a 20 year-old right-hand drive Suburu wagon. They’re worth some bucks these days, as they’re prized by rural mail-carriers. See a lot of similar ones on the road too in surrounding areas- pretty much old Subaru wagons and Jeep Chimpanzees are the only things they use. They just keep ’em going…putting head gaskets and trannies as needed (in the Subes)….

      • The Outback is a really nice Subaru wagon, we have one. They may call it an SUV, but it’s a mid-sized wagon that’s got a raised suspension.

        • If I hadn’t had such a terrible expereince with my 2010 Subaru Legacy, I would agree. I like the fundamentals of the Subarus. Easy to maintain, excellent layout. I just wish that they would make them with a RWD option.

          • Subarus aren’t what they used to be…. Pretty much since the turn of the century, they’ve been known for head gasket, electrical, and tranny problems. That’s why the rural mail carriers prize the ones from the 90’s.

              • G’day, Eric!

                No! I hadn’t heard- but it doesn’t surprise me a bit, what with the world going crazy and all. Sticks are becoming harder than hen’s teeth to find.

                Hey, how can WE be trusted to do something like shifting gears?! Who can expect the manufucturers to put something like a good old simple, durable, last-forever manual tranny on their Rube Goldberg-mobiles? It might confuse the computer’s Al-gore-rhythm if it didn’t know in advance what gear we were going to shift into! They surely can’t let us peons have control over our own vehicles! And just think, how would people text and drive, if they had to shift? 🙂

                • Hiya Nunz!

                  It’s on account of the fatwas… the car companies are resorting to desperate measures to meet the CAFE mandatory minimums; the death of the manual transmission is among the casualties…

    • Dear Dood, Robert,

      My thinking exactly! Took the words right out of my mouth.

      Station wagons are actually an eminently sensible automobile form factor.

      Damn the government tyrants and the willing sheeple who manifest them.

  10. The only thing more dangerous than owning Tesla stock is shorting it. As long as there are fanboys, government edicts, and a carnival barker at the helm, you’d be better off steering clear of this stock on either side. His antics keep working… until they don’t. And I personally don’t have the skill to determine when his investor’s irrationality will run out (if ever). I suspect if they ever do go belly up, these same investors would gladly follow Musk into a burning building again claiming that it wasn’t Elon’s fault that Tesla went belly up, but the evil oil companies or Republicans that were to blame.

    • I’ve written puts on TSLA but I try to cover them ASAP. It’s like walking in a minefield. Some day it’ll bite me in the ass.

      • why not just hedge your position, put or call?
        after all, when TSHTF, the vola spike alone will cause the “good” position to go up more than the “bad” one declines…

        Which puts the laugh on Elon’s recent comment about those traders NOT liking volatility. It’s what the speculator lives on (or off)!
        Only fools believe they are investing in the modern market, and in Tesla’s case, they’re arch fools.
        lol

  11. The proper tool for the job. Except the tools have gotten so expensive that cross-over makes sense for a certain section of the driver economy.

    The cross-over is an attempt to combine two tools into one – a daily driver that you can drive on a beach or country dirt road for camping or picnicking type of activities, given the cost of cars these days.

    I have a 1993 Ford Ranger, short bed, that I use for the occasional dirt/mulch load, whatever, to go fishing.
    My current commute care is a 2006 Impala, 3.9L engine. It has the power I need for a mostly highway and some city daily drive. If I need to punch it to get out of a jam or to clear an intersection, I do not lack the ability. Plus I can seat 3 adults comfortably in the back, the driver seat controls are great for when my short daughter need to use it.

    Both cars are setup to pull a small trailer. Both cars bought used and paid for. The truck I paid cash; the Impala paid off in 3 years.

    Can I dream? A commuter like the Elio in the $8L range will work for me. If EV it need must have a range of 100 miles, to allow for traffic issues in my daily 70 miles commute.

    • My neighbor had one of those Impalas. She kept bitching about it until she bought a new one. Now she wants her old one back. Too much electronic and safety shit on the new one. And visibility sucks.

  12. We have not reached the point where electric cars really work. The idea of electric cars is a great idea, but they have not been perfected. People like Elon Musk and other leftists have been pushing them because of political ideology. The world is not ready for electric cars.

    • Hi Chris,

      I think EVs that focus on economy and efficiency are a great idea; the problem – with Tesla – is the focus on high-performance, luxury and technology.

      Thus, his cars are fundamentally toys for the affluent.

    • Hi Libertarian,

      I agree with you; I’ve spent years deploying all my powers to sound the alarm. More people than you probably think grok what’s going on; the problem is… what to do about it? In my darker moments, I think it may take a mass die-off as occurred prior to Renaissance. Because probably half to two-thirds of the population is irremediably authoritarian collectivist; they want the system we suffer – and to a greater degree. Outright socialism or outright fascism. They will kill people like us – or clap when it’s done on their behalf.

      • People like to point out the “boiling frog” fallacy when it comes to changes in government overreach. Or they repost that stupid “when they came for the (blank)” poem.

        The reality is most of us feel pretty powerless against the intrenched state. Trump is proving that voting doesn’t help, as we watch him backtrack on all his foreign policy plans and turn into just another neocon. And we get the government the voters want. There’s really no way to break up the duopoly of the party system until there’s a massive number of parties like in other countries. And of course there’s the intrenched bureaucracy that never goes anywhere.

        The media loves the various wars on activities and tactics, since war sells papers. And when there’s no war, they’ll be all too happy to provide one. And debates are boring, deep political discussion is boring, and governmental budgets are all about death by 10,000,000 cuts.

        Much like the last snowflake to fall on the mountain isn’t the blame for the avalanche, no one project or department can be blamed for the out of control spending. And with spending comes the loss of liberty, because there’s very little the government does that doesn’t impede on our freedoms or liberties. But it’s all about spreading out the blame so much that no one department is at fault. And every person working in government believes in their hearts they’re doing the right thing.

      • Also, concerning killing population, it didn’t take more than a few years after Tiananmen Square for the billions of Chinese citizens figure out how to make a buck in a slightly less restrictive government. No massive die-off necessary. Something similar is taking place in India, where they’re attempting to break out of the bureaucratic nightmare the British created before they left.

        Rome didn’t fall in a day.

      • http s://www.lewrockwell. com/2018/05/egon-von-greyerz/will-poverty-disease-war-lead-to-3-billion-fewer-people/

      • Technology may provide an answer. I saw somewhere that there are micro-drones, maybe the size of a bumble bee, that are able to target and kill a human. Suppose that, in the near future, they can be built cheaply from off-the-shelf parts with some facial recognition and navigation software. War mongers and other evil, powerful scumbags will no longer be safe.

      • Technology may provide an answer. I saw somewhere that there are micro-drones, maybe the size of a bumble bee, that are able to target and kill a human. Suppose that, in the near future, they can be built cheaply from off-the-shelf parts with some facial recognition and navigation software. War mongers and other evil rulers will no longer be safe.

        • Unfortunately, that wont work. Saw an article T’other day….It seems that the English boobs….err…I mean Bobbies, are saying that facial recognition BS is 90% inaccurate!! 90% INACCURATE! (They use a lot of it over there already- cameras everywhere in public places, spying on all of the citizens)

          • Just give the bot the home address (gps) and a general description such as height, weight, color, etc.
            I just saw a video where the killer bot carries a three gram shaped charge that can penetrate a skull.

          • England has become a third world dictatorship, which I predicted years ago for all the reasons that have come to pass. Western Europe is by and large done. England and Germany and Sweden at the burnt meat stage….

            • Morning, Guiseppe!

              It’s sad about England. Unimaginable even 30 years ago, which I can remember. And yet, here we are. And, I agree – it is coming here. Most of it is already in place.

              • Screw UK. They are getting what they earned from oppressing Ireland, India, Rhodesia, et al.
                (I only say that because I am 1/4 Irish & 1/4 Arab, and kinda have a beef with Great Britain. Actually, I truly wish tyranny on no one.)

                • Evidently the old mantra of “do it for the empire” never died. More English than I want and wish I was all Scot, as a lifelong 6 generation Texan I don’t have much respect for a population that loves their oppressor. My flag is the Bloody Arm if I have one. My personal mantra is “Don’t step on me”, flag or no.

        • “War mongers and other evil rulers will no longer be safe.”

          But they are the ones with the most drones. And they are most willing to use them.

    • Eric, you summed it up nicely. The worship of authority is the most dangerous religion of all.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0
      Just announced that Virginia is going to add even more cameras to their transit system.
      The FAA wants all those who fly R/C (myself included) to put large registration numbers on our model planes before flying. Just another way of justifying the jobs.
      Americans have been terrorized into accepting their own imprisonment. Terrorized by the same government that wants total control.
      And for all those government trolls, reading these and other posts critical of government over reach, go fornicate yourselves.

      • I wonder how much of the FAA’s registration is due to pilots lobbying for more restrictions? After all, there’s been an explosion in aerial photography and cinematography, something that was an extremely rare thing. But that’s not because of an increase in helicopter pilots for sure. Once flight times get reasonable and beyond visual line of sight waivers are standardized they won’t be needed for the drive time and other news-copter 5 type work either.

        So every incident that might possibly be drone related is made into a federal case. Because that airspace is like a private golf course, and drones, even though they’re only standing at the edge of the clubhouse, aren’t welcome.

    • Hi George,

      Yes, but the downside in this case is the massive weight of the Model 3. Though it’s a small car – about the same footprint as a Chevy Cruze – the Tesla weighs about 3,900 lbs. (vs. just over 3,000 for the Chevy). While the weight is evenly distributed, it’s still a lot of weight. Very doubtful the car doesn’t feel ponderous relative to a same-size (but much less heavy) IC car. And, regardless, the Model 3’s minimal ground clearance and fat tires will not serve you well in the snow!

      • Now Eric, why should EV drivers worry about traction? You can’t recharge ’em when it’s below freezing; the charge doesn’t last as long in the cold, etc. so who’s gonna be out in their EV in the snow?

        EVs are only for southern California snowflakes!

      • OK but reviews of Tesla really don’t seem to complain much about the handling. The extra weight probably works in the snow and in accidents assuming you get out before the batteries go super critical. But if you did get into an accident I bet the extra weight minimizes your personal bodily injury.

        BTW, Tesla’s stock market detractors, I think they are called shorts, are enthusiastic about the Jaguar I-Pace. And since Tesla seems to be prioritizing higher cost configurations of the Model 3, it might be that the actual price of a Model 3 is close to the cost of a Jaguar I-Pace.

        • Hi George,

          Those reviews are written by fanbois, mostly. Elon strictly limits who gets access to his cars, in order to control the coverage. The Model 3’s central touchscreen control system would have been a cause for Exploding Pinto abuse… had Ford created this apotheosis of poor design.

    • Thanks, Antonio!

      You guys always cheer me up; I have episodes of burn out – and it gimps my ability to write (well). I am trying to gin up something about the BMW 640i GT… hoping my mojo will return….

  13. I asked my mechanic brother why my Ramcharger was so dang squirrelly on snow and ice, even in 4wd. He asked if I had oversized tires on it, and bingo! he was right on the money. Those big, fat 35″ tires were worthless on the slippery stuff. (What can I say? The truck came with those on it.)

    So for this coming winter I have regular 235/15s on it while putting the big meats on my rwd Dodge van to help get through the mud our under-graveled township roads turned into this spring. Win-win, as the tractionless van actually could get through some of that infamous gumbo we have around here.

  14. So, how is the death of the sedan going to effect NASCAR? Anyone? Are we just gong to have Chevrolet and Toyota running? If Chevy does drop its sedan line too, then just Toyota? and if the Camry goes bye-bye, then what? Will the series become “NASCrossover” NASSUV?
    Inquiring minds want to know.

    • I live in the land of Fruits and Nuts (Southern California). You’ll have to explain this snow and NASCAR thing to me. These are terms I am not familiar with.

      • NASCAR is a bunch of high performance, brightly colored cars driving bumper to bumper at insane rates of speed. It’s what you folk in SoCal would call “The Five”. Except when there is a caution, and that’s when everyone lines up in a couple of bumper to bumper conga lines and drives mind-bogglingly slow. It’s what you’d call “The Five during rush hour.” The reason NASCAR isn’t popular in SoCal is that y’all are already sick of traffic.

  15. Dear Eric,

    Check this out, an article from TAC comparing Elon Musk to Cosmo Kramer!

    Elon Musk is the Cosmo Kramer of Crony Capitalism</b?
    His wacky schemes never pan out but they do cost the taxpayers billions. Isn't it time we closed our refrigerators?

    Perhaps the most recent example of such a politically astute, Kramer-like figure is Elon Musk. This larger-than-life media personality plans to do everything from sending men to the moon and Mars, to creating a 700-miles-per-hour tunnel transportation system, to turbocharging human brains by implanting computers.

    All of these are excellent ideas, to be sure, but ones that bear significant amounts of risk. Unfortunately, Mr. Musk does not seem willing to bear all the risk himself. His business model revolves around hiring experts to navigate the waters of the Washington swamp to discover ways to make the American people pick up the tab.

    Take Tesla, for example. The car company was created to bring electric vehicles to the general public en masse—a mission that oddly requires over $1 million in lobbying expenditures annually. As a result, the cars are financed by over $280 million in federal tax incentives, including a $7,500 federal tax break, and tens of millions more in state rebates and development fees.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/elon-musk-is-the-cosmo-kramer-of-crony-capitalism/?mc_cid=fd0de9532d&mc_eid=9d55beb4be

    • Musk certainly has one talent down pat, finding outrageous ways to bilk the senseless masses for a living, not only for himself, but all of his lazy-ass parasitic butt-buddies!

    • Evenin’ Bevin!

      Hahaha! E-loon-as-Kramer! That is great!

      The saps who plunked down $1K to be on the Model 3 waiting list, are Newman! (I shouldn’t say that! Newman is actually one of my favorite characters!).

      It’s funny how the average person apparently has NO CLUE though, as to the dysfunctionality of Musk[rat]’s “businesses”/schemes. I was talking to a long-time acquaintance/client of mine today- and tried using Tesla as an example of the absurdity of modern corporate behavior, and my friend, it turned out, was utterly clueless about all the subsidies (except for the $7500 tax credit); about the fact that Tesla has never made a profit, but loses hundreds of millions of dollars per year; and all of the other buffoonery surrounding E-loon and his schemes.

      Totally clueless- and meanwhile, one of the guy’s good friends has been on the model 3 waiting list for years- so it’s not as though the subject of Tesla is totally foreign to him. But I know he watches CNN….. so perhaps that explains it.

      I guess we (or at least I) tend to take it for granted that others are at least moderately informed. It’s like: “How could anyone living in the world today be ignorant of such blatantly obvious truths about a popular company?”- but I guess this just goes to show us the power of the media and their ability to only tell what they want people to believe. Which too, I guess is why the Western world is so screwed-up, because if this is what they can spin with a bankrupt company which is run by a con-man (and many, many people must believe it, witnessed by the price of Tesla stock!)- imagine what they can achieve on more complicated subjects with are more foreign to the average person?!

      Of course WE have been aware of this for a long time, but the conversation with my friend today really re-awakened me to just how bad the situation is. One would tend to think that maybe with the passage of time, as the economy and culture and civilization steadily and rapidly decline, that reality would come a little easier; be a little closer to more people- but in fact, just the opposite seems to be the case.

      The sheeple are more blind than ever. And as OUR knowledge, understanding and information increases, the rift between them and us becomes greater and greater- and even that is evident by the observation that lately, it seems that I can hardly bear to converse with the average person, and they seem to feel the same about me. Our ideas and values and understanding of reality are just too radically different. They worship Trump, or Hitlery (Most of the ones I know are in the Trump camp)- but they both have a common enemy: Anyone, such as we, who eschew the whole authoritarian-collectivist system, and who use the light of reality to expose the lies of darkness. They can’t bear the thought that much of what they accept are out-right lies, for that would be to admit that they are ignorant and have been fooled, and that the system they worship and serve is evil and corrupt and predicated upon fraud.

  16. You should also mention low oil prices pushing people to SUVs.

    Also, the Model 3 is available with AWD now. It’s a $5K option.

    • Hi DM,

      It’s mostly crossover SUVs – which are just jacked-up cars. I have a BMW 640 GT (hatchback) this week. The thing strikes me as sensible, except for the weight vs. the 5 Series sedan…!

      • From what I’ve seen, these crossovers still carry a penalty in terms of fuel efficiency due to the added weight of the AWD mechanism and worse aerodynamics. With oil prices going up and over $4 in many cities already, maybe we’ll see a move back to smaller sedans and hatchbacks?

        • Don’t mean to pick on you DM, but I’m waging a personal war against the false notion we’ve all been indoctrinated with, that a few hundred- or even a few thousand pounds of extra weight significantly reduces gas mileage. It doesn’t.

          Don’t believe me? Drive your car, alone on a measured route and then calculate the MPGs. The do that same route, under the same traffic conditions and weather [etc. -try and pick a route with no traffic lights or traffic], only with 3 more people (preferably lardo’s) and maybe a few bags of cement or something else heavy in the trunk- Try and get an extra 800-1000 lbs on that 2nd trip. You’ll likely only notice a fraction of an MPG difference from the first trip.

          It’s all about gearing; aerodynamics; having an engine large enough to not have to always be working at high capacity, etc.

          Weight means little- and a few hundred measly pounds means nothing.

          Or why my near 8K lb. gas Excursion gets 11MPG, while a 6 cyl. Grand Cherokee I had briefly got 13.8MPGs, even though it weighed nearly 4000 lbs less than the Excursion.

          • Fair enough. It may not be the weight. But these crossovers do have a mpg penalty. Eric mentioned the Camry and RAV4. Camry gets 29/41 while RAV4 gets 23/30. They weigh about the same. I think people start switching back to small sedans when gas hits $4 this summer.

            • Oh, I definitely agree with ya there, DM. While it may be do more so to aerodynamics, or being underpowered (THAT’s where weight becomes a penalty), those crossdressers are often the worst of both worlds- as far as MPGs and room, and such. I personally can’t figure out why people who would buy one, just don’t buy a real SUV. Lose another MPG or two, but have plenty of room, and maybe even real off-road 4×4! 🙂

  17. I am guessing most people interested in the model 3 are the ones that put down deposits. If they manage to fill those orders, they may find that is all that will sell.

  18. You would think that Toyotas and Hondas would be selling better, what with all of those people who plunked down $1000 to be on the Model 3 waiting list needing something to drive in the intervening years until they get their Model 3 -if ever.

    • Hey Nunzio,

      A la the tired old bar joke, “free beer tomorrow”, it’d be great if some irreverent wags started putting, “Model 3 available tomorrow” signs in front of Tesla dealerships.

      Cheers, Jeremy

  19. Eric,
    Your pizza pan got me to thinking, so a quick trip to the web and voila’! 155/70-19 can be found on the BMW i3. And the still managed to screw it up by specifying a 155/60-19 in the back.
    WTF? They were spec’ing out an odd ball tire to begin with and their engineers couldn’t mess with the car somewhere and design it to accept 155/65-19? Amazingly stupid!

    If BMW can be that stupid, you have to wonder what miracles of engineering/production/logistics Mr. Musk has demanded on the Model 3.

  20. What is it with this obsession with wide flat tires ???

    They suck in virtually all categories, from gas mileage to high price to driving on anything but dry pavement!

    • They also make the wheel/tire combination so heavy you can no longer change a flat, even with Arnie’s muscles. Try getting one of those wheels into your car trunk, or into the back of a 4WD pickup truck!

  21. If Tesla’s cars were IC, I would consider buying one (of course if I had the money). Of course, it would be without the self driving bull. The government’s cram down of the electric car is what it is. I would rather have a choice in the marketplace. The fact that this thing is RWD appeals to me. If you are going to do electric cars, that’s the way to go.

    • If Tesla’s cars were IC and they didn’t have self-driving features you would buy it? That sounds like the old joke “If my mom had balls, she’d be my dad”.

  22. You’re right of course, but because the people who have pre-ordered them are extremely vocal about their fandom of Tesla the hype surrounding the car will continue. And continue. And continue.

    As much as I hate to compare Tesla to Apple, the fanbois of each follow the same pattern. Even though Apple sells a minuscule number of MacOS computers, they have such an aggressively vocal user base that it appears they have much more market share than they do. Even though Apple ranks about #5 in overall PC sales (at 6.9% in 2016), they pale in comparison to HP’s 19% of market share. And remember about 30% of sales go to “other.” The same pattern holds true for iOS devices too, although in 1st world countries the trend is much closer to 50/50 with Android.

    But given the latest news about electrics, such as VW going all in on electric drivetrain, I seriously doubt they’ll be much more than a patent holding company in a few years. They might become the OS company too, but they’ll be competing with Bosch and Siemens, and probably Square D if they’re still around. Companies who’ve been producing high-end motor control systems for decades. Or the Chinese upstarts who’ll just use whatever is cheapest. And their lousy supercharging stations will eventually be driven out by the standard charging ports everyone else uses. Remember even Apple puts USB ports on their laptops.

    • Here is the thing about Tesla owners. They are just like Harley owners. They have convinced themselves they are making a “real-estate” investment. Considering the price tag, it’s not a far stretch. What is a far stretch, is that it is not real-estate. It will get driven, worn out, used and abused, and most notably wrecked. Yet both types have already convinced themselves they have pre-ordered the next “diamond tiara” on 2 or 4 wheels, whichever the case may be. Being that the primary reason for possessing either a Tesla, or a Harley, is bragging rights, they must convince others of its greatness, and their divine wisdom for having purchased one, sight unseen. Try to convince any Harley owner of the abysmal performance and handling debilities of their machine, forget it. The same is going to be true for Teslarians, and equal to the “price” they have paid, which has been done so without a product even being present. The behavior of both groups of “worshipers” is completely irrational and therefore is jealously defended by all in their cult with religious fanaticism. Both groups start by trying to tout the technology and/or the durability or their idols, neither of which holds enough weight to justify the price tag or the act of buying it before it is even manufactured, which both groups are renowned for doing. Both examples are “niche” vehicles that are an oddity, and neither is an ideal example of general transportation, for many, many practical reasons. There are hundreds of different “specialty” vehicles, I call them cult cars, that have endured for many decades as well. That’s just fine. Buy one and enjoy it for what it is, if that’s even possible. The financial hemmorraging would make me question my own sensibility, but a great many people behave in such a manner. Their philosophy is that life is all about keeping appearances, and the burden of reality just disappears in a great fog of perpetual denial of the inconvenient truth that they are riding a white elephant. There is no reasoning with fanaticism, any more than there is with religion.

      • Harley Davidson is the Starbucks of motorcycles.

        RE: Investing in guaranteed depreciating assets. A few years when I was still posting in the Ars Technica forums someone wrote about how happy they were to have “invested” in the Xbox instead of Playstation. I snarkly replied that I was happy to have invested in my 401(k) instead of an Xbox because it increases in value while an Xbox or any other electronics will certainly lose money. The down voting was so bad my comment was collapsed to oblivion. And of course responses were full of attempts to explain how “investing” in free time activity will pay big dividends later. I just mentioned that video games are basically puzzle games and you’d be better off spending that time you spend figuring out the puzzle working at a fast food joint, which is about as intellectually stimulating anyway.

        I don’t post to Ars Technica forums much anymore.

        • Yeah,
          Pointing out to others that their “investment” in pleasure seeking doesn’t sit too well with those who dream of become wealthy providing “idle entertainment”. That being said, I will admit that I still enjoy killing time and some modest mental exercise with my PS2. But it’s just that, killing time, vegging, and some modest mental exercise, nothing deeply profound or enlightening, and certainly non-productive. There can be a place and time for relaxation and entertainment, and there should be, no doubt. But it does not a functional society make, lol!
          I find it relaxing to kill Nazis in a video game for an hour or two, a safer bet than shooting the real ones we have in our society now.

          • The term “investment” is greatly abused these days. (Am I starting to sound like Bill?!).

            An investment is something which either appreciates in value, or which facilitates the earning of money (like tools, if you’re a tradesman).

            I derive great value from my DVD collection of old television series and old B&W movies- and having them saves me money compared to subscribing to cable/satelite/streaming crap- but no matter how ya slice it (and regardless of the fact that I bought them at the point where their prices were very low- long after they first came out) there’s no way that they are an “investment”, because they will not appreciate in value, nor facilitate my earning of money.

          • Of course, we all spend time in mindless activity (hence EPautos.com forums…), but I don’t think any of us are delusional enough to believe this activity will pay off a dividend down the road. In the case of video games at best you’ll have a few minutes of dopamine hits after work. At worst you’ll be spending all you weekend on a quest or mission or whatever the game calls it, spending all your waking hours looking for that next dopamine hit.

            I have a somewhat addictive personality. I’ve been pretty lucky over the years in that I notice when an activity becomes a problem, but it is so easy to fall into that trap. Sometimes it can be a good thing, leading to a good job and somewhat fit/healthy body. But it goes south so easily, and modern marketing just plays into that addictive behavior.

      • Tesla fanboys remind me of crypto dudes. Say anything negative about their object of affection, and it’s like you said something bad about their mom. I’ve worked out a formula now that has made my life easier in multiple areas of life:

        1) Voting -> don’t have time to research a given proposition or candidate? Look who the teacher’s union is supporting, and vote the opposite
        2) Real Estate -> when you start hearing statements like “home prices never go down”, “everyone should own a house”, or “we need to make it easier for anyone to buy a house”, the market is about to implode
        3) Cryptos -> wait till the “average Joes” (I call them “marks”) start jumping into cryptos and start using terms like “investment” or “currency”, or make pie in the sky pronouncements such as “everyone will be using cryptocurrencies”, the bottom is not far off

        • Same thing applies to gooooold and siiiiiiilver. I bought into that bandwagon in 2009. I have yet to see any gains on my “physical silver.” Blech. I don’t know what I was thinking.

          • I remember seeing a quote by someone who had gotten out of the stock market before the crash of ’29. He said something to the effect: “When I stopped to buy a paper, and the paperboy was talking stocks, and mentioned that he was in the market, I knew it was time to get out. I sold all my stocks that very day, and [x] days later, the market crashed”.

            I also feel the same way about gold and silver. While throughout history they’ve always been a good way to preserve the value of wealth against inflation and societal upheaval, NOW is not the time to buy- but may be a good time to sell if one already has ’em, because I believe they are in an artificial bubble, hovering just below a market top….and now that it’s becoming mainstream to buy physical metal, it may temporarily drive that bubble up a bit slightly yet….but when the bubble bursts, or when the SHTF/economy collpases, all of the late-comers are going to rush to sell before they do anything else, and gold and silver will tank.

            If I had metal, I might be tempted to wait till the stock market starts to crash…as gold at least will likely spike up sharply, but briefly- but when reality and the gravity of the situation sets in, there will be a big sell-off in gold and it will follow the stock market down. At least that is the scenario I picture.

        • 4) Want to see a movie? Go to one Rex Reed hates.

          5) When buying stocks, short the ones that my ex-boss’s broker recommends. The problem with being a little guy is that you receive the advice last, when it’s time to sell.

    • Nunzio, I think, wrote:

      “As much as I hate to compare Tesla to Apple, the fanbois of each follow the same pattern. Even though Apple sells a minuscule number of MacOS computers, they have such an aggressively vocal user base that it appears they have much more market share than they do. Even though Apple ranks about #5 in overall PC sales (at 6.9% in 2016), they pale in comparison to HP’s 19% of market share. And remember about 30% of sales go to “other.” The same pattern holds true for iOS devices too, although in 1st world countries the trend is much closer to 50/50 with Android.”
      There was actually a time when Apple was innovative when its primary product was computers. Now getting into the internals will void the warranty and memory is soldered onto the motherboard. Sure Apple had some duds but overall the area in which they shone was software technology. Functionally Apple’s MacOS X stood head and shoulders above Windows of the time. Moving into consumer technology has made Apple a ton of cash but things like the iPhone, iPad, iPod (for its time) but I think Apple has screwed the pooch, especially Jobs selecting Tim Cook as his successor. Tim Cook, a glorified accountant and who uses Apple as a bully pulpit for SJW causes, is a lot like Elon Musk….the man behind the curtain in Wizard of Oz. This really irritates me as longterm Apple computer user (from 1980 to the present but not in the future). But, news flash, actual Mac computers are abysmal and the results are showing in Mac sales. But Apple does not care…they made $45 billion in profits in 2017. Mostly on iPhones. Apple’s problem is that when a company milks the cow too hard, and people start realizing the degree to which they overpay for non state of the art gear, there will be a black swan moment at which point Apple spirals out of control and gets snapped up by some other company. I observe the same will happen with Tesla but both events could occur in a broader, global market collapse. Look at what happened in the Great Depression and if some uber progressive gains control….well, Katie bar the door….tis going to get interesting. Musk as Kramer…that’s rich. You should see the Tesla sycophants shrieking over on the American Conservative comment section…pretty funny.

      • “Nunzio wrote”

        T’wasn’t me…. I agree with what you said above. I think we are going to see the scenario you paint come to pass in two years, when some uber-regressive, like that bitch Hillary is elected.

          • Every day I feel so much closer to the “no win” situation and it makes me feel my age. 30 years ago I’d had a fighting chance when the SHTF. I don’t have the endurance now although for a while you won’t want to take me on, or at least wouldn’t if it weren’t for the wife who just can’t with 2 bad hips and a worse attitude as far as picking up a gun and making a hand. And in her defense(sic), she wasn’t always that way.
            My best friend called out of the blue one day and had managed to get on a phone in his own home saying he and his wife had been kidnapped. I grabbed a Colt AR, an Uzi and some other handguns along with a big bag of loaded mags and the wife runs out of the house with her own arsenal. I won’t go into details but by dark that day we were all at our house with no one much the worse for wear. She was good for her word but I fear can no longer do much physically.

            I was bitching about the entire shitty going in this country and in my personal life one day at a friends business. He and his wife were agreeing with my assessment and he finally asked if I had plenty of ammo since he’s been stocking up for decades. I told him I was swimming in it, sometimes had to use a pushbroom so I could walk through the house and not fall down. I was cleaning this week and found nearly a full 1,000 rd. box and some empty 30 and 40 round mags. Excuse me, I need to fill those and all the stripper clips I can find. BTW, I did get a wild turkey Wed. or Thurs. So easy to call and shoot but I was bushed by the time I had it cleaned. It triggered me to start working out. Now it’s time for some roadwork with my bike.

            On the electronic front I feel like I’m caught in a no win situation too. On the Apple hand, the money is used against people like myself and wife. Or I can support Google and the CIA on the other hand……shit!

            • Dear 8, Eric, et al,

              || Every day I feel so much closer to the “no win” situation and it makes me feel my age. 30 years ago I’d had a fighting chance when the SHTF. I don’t have the endurance now ||

              There’s an old Chinese expression “The years spare no one”, Unfortunately it’s true.

              I resolved when younger to remain fit into old age and “die with my boots on”. But life is what happens while we make our plans.

              It didn’t matter that I had the resolve to exercise and remain fit. Events spiraled out of control regardless.

              This last weekend I underwent surgery for a thyroid tumor. They got it out but it already spread to my lungs. Therefore they’re talking about “drugs” to get the rest. I go in to hear the details a week from now, and dread hearing them tell me “drugs” mean chemo.

              During the past year I’ve been undergoing physical therapy for paralysis in my right arm. The fingers on my right hand cannot touch type at the moment. The cause was diagnosed as a bone spur in my neck vertebrae, pressing on the nerves of my right arm and hand.

              But the oncologists last week suspect that the cancer having spread beyond my neck region, play a role, and are the cause of excruciating and nearly continuous pain in my right shoulder as well as the paralysis of the hand.

              If that wasn’t enough, the same symptoms are starting to appear on my left shoulder and left hand.

              I’ve been touch typing with the fingers of my left hand but using hunt and peck with the fingers of my right hand for months now. If my left side falls victim to the same syndrome I will be reduced to hunt and peck with both hands.

              Initially my sole concern was “Will I still be able to sing after my thyroid operation?” Needless to say, that question has been totally overshadowed by a far more serious question. “Will I even survive this illness?”

              I consider it a privilege to have connected with everyone here. At the least on an intellectual level, and with a few of you on a heart level. You know who you are.

              I hope I make it through this crisis, and continue sharing. But if not, you’ll know what became of me.

              • Oh hell bevin, I do hope the best for you. I have had some maladies I was sure I’d not beat but various things, and not pharmaceutical, have let me come back from such as restless leg syndrome that takes years off your life, a thrice broken leg that finally healed but took about 4 years and still has a direct line from one or two spots in the leg to corresponding spots on my chest, one to the back left side and one to the front left. I will cry out since it’s a lot like getting hit with a hotshot but it’s really no big thing and I don’t complain.

                I really hate to hear about your ongoing condition but remember mother nature has cures for nearly everything.

                Natural forms of Vit E kill cancer cells as does denying them sugars of any sort. A keto diet is effective for many people in reversing cancer.

                If you know Bill Sardi or know of him, get in touch with him since he leaves an email address with his articles. He’s helped me greatly in the past and I’m grateful to him.

                I do wish you all the best and a full recovery. If you want to confer about this then tell eric you’d like my email address and I’ll be glad to commnicate and help in any way I can.

                Like you, I also don’t want to lose the ability to sing. Less than an hour ago I was reading a book about Rock And Roll and one song mentioned made me start singing lowly which caused one of our cats to run to me. After he’s stopped and was content to be rubbed I burst out in full song and he got in my face and tried to get in my throat. If I stopped he’d start trilling tillI began again. There’s another orange cat we have that does the sme. I don’t know what it means except we’re all creatures of the earth and aural sounds mean something to nearly all of them and probably all mammals.

                But sincerely, if you’d like to communicate I’m ready to help in every way I can and just be a sounding board if you like. Peace b

                • I’m not one to be a extremist, but Keto has changed my life. I’m a 35 year old guy who at the beginning of the year was sitting at 200 lbs (I’m 5’7”), had high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and astronomical triglycerides. A few months later, I’m sitting at 178 (still have work to do), my blood pressure is better than average, and my cholesterol is completely healthy again. On top of this, my mind and body feel like they’ve been released from a fog. I have tried EVERYTHING over the past 3 years, and finally found something that works for me. I wish you all good health and long life.

              • Dear 8,

                Thanks so much for the heartfelt response. I never imagined I would find myself where I am today. I may take you up on that later.

                I try to tell myself I’m more fortunate than I have a right to expect because I enjoyed nearly 70 years of more or less healthy life, with no birth defects,

                Sometimes the rationalization works. Other times it doesn’t, and I feel like Roy Batty in Bladerunner. “I want more life”.

                The keto diet sounds good, and entirely doable. Going to start in on it. Unfortunately, drug laws probably make CBD oil with THC illegal on “democratic” Taiwan.

                More later.

                • bevin, I have CBD oil by itself works for nearly anything that ails you If you do a bit of research you’ll find it contributes to your body at the basic cellular level and provides chemicals you need but are hard to produce the older you get.
                  I know an 86 year old man who suffers Parkinson’s and it’s changed his life, made his hands steady again. I certainly understand wanting more life and am amazed every day I haven’t succumbed to some sort of cancer since I know many my age who have. When I was young i did a lot of mechanicing and always had plenty of parts cleaner, i.e., leaded gasoline on hand which I’d get via the old southern credit card and ingest plenty. We had no idea how poisonous it was back in the early 60’s and I continued to do that tilll l was 25 or so. Of course i’d spend an hour washing parts in a parts cleaner……without gloves. Seriously, I’ll help all I can. I don’t know about other countries but CBD oil is legal in all 50 states.

              • Dear Bevin,

                I just read your post and am so sorry… it must be awful and you have my sympathy/wishes for a speedy recovery. I am certain I speak for everyone here when I write that you are among the most thoughtful, respectful and wise people posting here. I personally appreciate the humanity and civility you always show, even to the most exasperating Clovers. It marks you out as a higher-order kind of person, what some people style a mensch. We’ve never met in person, but I have long considered you a friend – as well as someone who always has something interesting to say, often something I hadn’t thought of myself.

                Please keep us posted and if I can do anything to help, email me privately.

              • Dear Bevin,

                I’m so sorry to hear this. You are certainly one of the good guys. My thoughts are with you.

                Kind Regards,
                Jeremy

              • Dear, Dear Bevin!

                I have known you for what, maybe a year, through this comment section? And I can say that above all, I always look forward to your posts. As Eric said, you are wise- but not just wise; you are thoughtful and just and humble- and that wisdom which you possess also manifests itself in the kind and understanding way in which you treat others. People like you are a true rarity, and what many of us aspire to be, but never can quite pull it off.

                We need more time to know and enjoy you, just as you need more time to live! I am wishing that you have (or will) write a book- not about any particular subject, but just about your thoughts and observations and experiences over your lifetime- an informal autobiography that would allow those of us who have not known you in real-life, to have the benefit of knowing you more intimately.

                PLEASE, do NOT allow them to destroy your body and immune system through their chemotherapy! Nothing good will come of it. The chemo most often gets people before the cancer does, and just makes your life miserable.

                Read an article recently where now even the medical community is starting to catch-on to that fact. The Brits did a long-term study. Concluded that chemo did not work 97% of the time.

                What’s more (not from that study) it destroys your immune system, so that if you at some point want to avail yourself of the natural remedies, they will no longer work, due to the compromised immune system.

                The chemo will almost definitely kill you, and/or make life so miserable, you will wish you were dead.

                Alternative treatments may ior may not work- but even doing nothing, you would likely live longer than if you got chemo, and your quality of life will definitely be better.

                I’ve recently gone through this exact scenario with someone I’ve known for 40 years. He took the chemo. Now he lays in bed or sits in a wheelchair, needing help to go to the bathroom or do anything. He now wishes he hadn’t done the chemo, as he would either be dead, or not in as bad shape as he is in now, because the problems he has now, are not just the cancer, but more so all the ancillary problems caused by the chemo.

                Try the natural remedies while your immune system is still intact. Also, there are still a very few practitioners of traditional Chinese medicine in Taiwan- the real ones- who do not even take payment for their services. Personally, I would try that first.

                Hang in there, and I know it may sound ludicrous, but don’t let worrying make your situation worse- it can actually do a lot of harm. I knew one person in real-life, and another on the internet, who were diagnosed with cancer and given 6 months to live. One did nothing; one did the alternative therapies (I forget which ones)- both lived for 40 more years….

                One more idea, in addition to the excellent advice already offered by the others:
                If you feel that you are able, you might want to look into prolonged fasting- it’s like keto on steroids (without any steroids, or course 😀 )- it can dissolve tumors and scar tissue, and shut-down cancer more quickly- you just have to be careful, naturally, if your health is already compromised- but if fasting is an option for you, I think you would see the quickest and most effective results that way.

                You have to beat this! We can not be deprived of you!!!!

              • Dear Eric,

                Thanks so much for the generous praise. Coming from a man of your caliber, it means the world to me.

                I too consider you a true friend. Not merely a political ally, but someone with whom I have formed a deeper heart level connection.

                That holds true also for many of the regular contributors here as well.

                I am truly sorry about the undeserved deprivations you have suffered in both your marriage and career. You deserve so much better. It’s so unfair.

                I have always believed naively that virtue will be rewarded in this life. it always pains me when life doesn’t work out that way, and some people get away with murder.

                Too many fairy tales when I was young I guess. LOL.

                There are times when the shooting pains in my shoulders is so unrelenting I want to end it all. Fortunately so far it eventually lets up some and I am able to find the will to keep fighting.

                Also, I cannot overstate how much the encouragement you and others have offered means to me. It’s a “shot in the arm”.

                • Good morning, Bevin!

                  You have a small army behind you – and I’d rather be a member of such an army than any other. Win or lose. That may sound dumb, naive. But in all things I’d rather be on the right side of things and hope only to have the inner strength sometimes needed to stay on the right side. I try very hard to focus on the good things – both actual and possible. These may not come to pass, but so long as there is a chance they may I think it is worth thinking they could and doing all one can to make it happen.

                  My father was a doctor, so I have a little familiarity with medical things. I second what many here have said in re both key points. One, like mechanics, not all doctors are bad – or good. The good ones are among the best people you’ll ever know and will go to the mattresses with you. But like finding a good mechanic, the hard part is finding a good doctor. Cast a wide net. The right one is out there. I am hoping you will find him. Two, non-traditional, no-allopathic alternatives – and your body’s own capacity to heal itself- should be part of the equation as well. It is my own belief that our individual biological make-up is so individual that general treatments are a rough guide at best. What your body needs – and will respond to – may be very different than what another person’s body needs/responds to.

                  We are all pulling for you, Bevin. As someone else here wrote, you can’t opt out on us!

              • Dear Eric,

                A small army indeed! Comrades in arms! Freedom Fighters! Real ones, not those who fight freedom.

                There is of course no doubt that you are doing the right thing, telling it like it is. The only question is how much you will suffer because if it, No good deed goes unpunished it seems, contrary to all our expectations for a just world.

                Thank you, and everybody else here from the bottom of my heart.

            • Dear Nunzio,

              Thanks so much for the long and thoughtful message. Much appreciated.

              Chemo scares the bejesus out of me. I’ve heard the same horror stories. Worse than doing nothing.

              I dread the pressure I’m probably going to subjected to do chemo. Supposedly chemo has been “improved” in recent years. I just don’t know whom to trust.

              • Definitely do your research.. Not sure how recent you’re talking, but coming up on two years ago a kid I grew up with passed away at 32 after undergoing chemo. It’s frightening to imagine someone so young and otherwise healthy being taken out so quickly when they believed they were doing everything that they were supposed to so they could be there to raise their kid. Heartbreaking shit.

                I hope you’re able to both find something that works for you and stick around a while longer, I’ve only been around these threads for a short time, but long enough to say it wouldn’t be the same without ya.

            • Dear 8,

              I really want to try CBD oil with THC.

              Do you know a reputable source where I can get it mail order?

              According to the following article, most of the stuff on Amazon is not the right kind and won’t do me much good.

              https://www.marijuanabreak.com/amazon-hemp-oil-vs-real-cannabis-cbd-oil

              Excerpts:

              || Basically, CBD is an active compound (called a cannabinoid) that is found in mature cannabis plants – in most strains, it is found in abundance throughout the leaves, flowers, and even the stems. This is the compound that is of course responsible for all of the medical and therapeutic benefits that you’ve likely heard about all over the news in recent years.

              Hemp oils, on the other hand, are 99% of the time made from cannabis seeds, which contain minimum amounts of CBD (or any other cannabinoids, for that matter).

              This is a very expensive process that uses advanced state-of-the-art technology. Due to these extraction costs, legitimate companies will not sell their products on Amazon as the massive online store takes a share of sales, cutting into margins, therefore making it less profitable for these companies to sell their quality products.

              Furthermore, Amazon is quite strict with their policy in regards to CBD content and will not permit high quality products that contain high levels of CBD or potency.

              Thus, when you go on Amazon or go to your local health food store and see all these “hemp” products, just know that even though they contain CBD they very likely come from the seeds of the plant, have gone through a low quality extraction process and contain hardly any active cannabinoids, if at all.

              And lastly, one more important thing of note is that if you pay close attention to the actual product listings for the hemp oils on Amazon, you’ll notice that they’re very careful about not using the words ‘CBD,’ ‘THC,’ ‘cannabinoids,’ ‘medicine,’ ‘therapy,’ and so on and so forth. Even though CBD oil is legal to buy in the U.S., there must be some sort of legal stipulations that don’t allow them to sell or market any true CBD-containing products. (And actually, because CBD is still not federally recognized as a drug, medicine, or health supplement, even the really high quality oils out there have to put a disclaimer on their bottles that says something like, “this product is not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease.”||

              Any info would be a godsend.

              • bevin, my bad on forgetting Amazon.

                They evidently want to stay in good stead with TPTB.

                They have take a lot of flak along with Google for doing AI work for the US military.

                Last week 4,000 Google employees signed a petition threatening leaving because of that unholy alliance after so many pointing out their slogan of “First, do no harm”.

                I quit buying anything through Amazon last year after their exposed collaboration with Google and the evil military controllers.

                I don’t know what your country’s laws might be in regard to CBD oil.

                I do know people it has helped a great deal.

                There is a review board for companies who sell these things. What you really want is the “gold” product that’s 30% concentrate which seems to be the best buy for the money since it’s the strongest strength of all and can be delivered in any increment.

                Look for the review for every company.

                If CBD oil turns out to be illegal in your country, contact me via email and we’ll figure out something. I can almost guarantee CBD with THC will be illegal in any country where the sativa and Indica strains are illegal.

                Let me know something about the legality of both products in your country and we’ll work something out.

                I can buy candy such as CBD Gummy Bears and other products not associated with THC. I’ll try contact the guy I know that has been buying it(CBD oil)and has someone to buy the oil with THC. This has hit me at a bad time so I might not be able to act quickly since old Lucky Me had his S4 take a dump, along with all my phone contacts, Friday night. I seem to have shit go to hell on 4 day weekends.

                One year I was digging a hole for a steel fence at the front for my entrance gate and brought up a whole load of phone cable that had been buried exactly where I’d told the idiots not to bury it. This was Friday on Labor Day weekend that lasted through Monday. Fortunately I had a friend who installed cable for a living.
                I got a splice kit from him and fixed it right then. It’s not that easy since ATT began using a computer to monitor cut lines so the last time I cut the line with my Ditch Witch I fixed that too but after the holiday a field tech showed up and cut out my splice and put in his own that was identical.

                But let me know via email if you would. We WILL figure something out. Peace b

              • Hi, Bevin!

                That is often why the natural cures get a bad rap: The stuff that really works is illegal. Amazon, nor any source in a major Western country is not going to sell it mail-order.

                The stuff they do sell, has been so adulterated of the substances which make it work, that it no longer works.

                I had this itchy patch of skin on my inside thigh for many years, that turned dark and then morphed into what I diagnosed as skin cancer.

                About 15 years ago, I found an Indian tribe in [I think it was] Wyoming, who were selling real bloodroot salve over the internet. I ordered a jar ($50) and used it. It did exactly what they say it’s supposed to- the cancerous matter literally shed itself from my leg over the course of a week or so.

                The problem never returned.

                Due to ever-increasing “crack-downs”, the Indians no longer sell that salve- nor does anyone else. I tried finding some once, for a friend- but it was impossible- via mail-order, anyway. Same with Laetril/B17 [now there’s an idea!]…you pretty much have to go where it is legal- or know someone who will take a chance and mail it to you from such a place- and hope that customs doesn’t intercept it [Hint: Change the label!] and or nab you for receiving it, if it is not legal where you live.

                The pharmaceutical companies have made sure to cut-off nearly all access to the stuff that really works. How sad…..

                  • I totally disagree. Most oncologists are motivated by a desire to help & heal, not by money. The reason they don’t go with “all-natural” meds is that there is no solid research to back up many of the claims of alt medicine.

                    • Paul, there’s “no solid evidence” because they’re not looking for any.

                      To my knowledge there have never been any serious studies done on alternative procedures in a MEANINGFUL way- i.e. using unadulterated potent products on people who have not already had their immune systems and other natural systems destroyed by drugs and chemo.

                      And any info that would show the natural remedies in a positive light would be buried, just like they bury the truth about vaccines.

                      They tell you that the Polio vaccine eliminated polio. No, it disabled many people. What “cured” polio was the elimination of the conditions which caused polio- i.e. improving sanitation.

                      Meanwhile, places which had a lower incidence of polio than the US, when given the vaccine, actually had the number of polio cases in their countries ROSE!

                      You should know that anything that involves huge amounts of money and societal control, always results in evil and dysfunction.

                      If they say there is no evidence to back up the claims of the natural remedies, then they should jettison chemo immediately, because the evidence for that shows that it is 97% ineffective and harmful.

                      So regardless of the efficacy of the natural cures or lack thereof, there IS evidence to show that chemo is worthless, and does great harm.

                      Or, consider my mother: At 70 she had a hysterectomy to get rid of cancer. It was successful. Then, they sent her for radiation treatments “to keep it away”.

                      I warned her not to get the radiation! This was 23 years ago, and there was already plenty of evidence to show that radiation as a preventative was ineffective, and caused harm.

                      She didn’t listen. She had the radiation treatments. They KNEW the potential for harm, vs. the negligible benefits- but the way they think, they figured that she was 70- so “she only had a few more years life expectancy”, so she’d probably die before the harmful effects of the radiation would do their thing.

                      Well, my mother is 93 now…and has no degenerative diseases or anything, and is in good health….but has suffered for many years now because that radiation caused scar tissue and burning of her organs and digestive system- and that is ultimately compromising her health.

                      Whether she even really had cancer to begin with, is disputable (as it is with all patients diagnosede with cancer) because if you look into the tsting procedures for many forms of cancer, they consist of testing for unusually high numbers of antibodies in your system- and the trouble with that is, that those antibodies often just mean that your body is successfully fighting off what may be the beginnings of cancer. They then declare that you have cancer, and start “treatments” which interfere with the bodies natural responses- which is why oftentimes you will see a healthy person who feels fine, diagnosed with cancer, and then the next thing you know, the cancer has gone wild, and is spreading all over, and suddenly the guy who was healthy is infirm- because the doctors interfered with a body that was successfully fighting off the cancer- and instead introduced artificial and harmful things which are less effect9ve, and which harm the body- and it’s like they bombed the army that was fighting the cancer…and now tghe cancer is free to take over.

                      Modern medicine is a mess!

                      My mother now wishes that she had listened, and never had that radiation.

                    • That may well be the case with many if not most individual doctors. However, as the Goldman-Sachs report points out there is no doubt that it is more profitable for “big pharma” to produce medications that prolong and manage disease as long as possible rather than cure it – the latter being bad for business.

                    • Remember, doctors are trained. That means they follow procedures.

                      The more I’ve learned about doctoring the more I realize that if they were mechanics they would be the worst kind, parts changers, for the most part.

                    • Nunizo, there’s something wrong in the vaccine world IMO. I am not sure exactly what but have my suspicions. The reason I came to this conclusion is because of how the system reacted to Wakefield and anyone who even suggests a different approach. Wakefield’s paper wasn’t even anti-vaccination. It recommended a difference course of vaccination. Just space out the three vaccinations instead of MMR. That’s it. That small difference in thought set off a chain reaction in the system. It was like an institutional immune response.

                      That and what happens any time someone suggests even the most minor sensible things like slowing down the vaccination of children or evaluating them as individuals to prevent adverse reactions.

                      Something is being hidden. There’s a threat to them from even the most minor change.

                    • Brent, I found long ago, that the education system is set up to reward those who just accept and believe what they are told, without question.

                      Those who don’t go along to get along, either extricate themselves to escape the BS, and so as not to spend their lives living a lie- or if they are willing to fake it to get the degree, they don’t go far in the corporate/government world- especially the tightly regulated ones.

                      And the vaccines are a perfect example of the latter. Plenty of doctors don’t vaccinate their kids- but let ’em warn their patients about the dangers of vaccines…and it’s curtains for them, unless they can manage to be a sole practitioner and not affiliated with any hospitals, etc.- and even then, they become targets for lawsuits.

                      Ya just can’t win from within the system.

                      My own eye doctor was telling me that the only option left for me, was a very destructive laser procedure. I told him that I would never have that done, as I had read up on it, and it almost always reduces a patient’s vision, and often leads to blindness (which it supposed to prevent).

                      After going through that same conversation on multiple occasions, he says to me: “Would I have it done if it were me? No.”

                      Yet, if I hadn’t known better, he wouldn’t have warned me- because it is against accepted protocol, and if I had avoided it based on what he said, and my eye deteriorated or went blind, he could lose his license and or be sued.

                      Yet if I had the procedure and had the same outcome….that would be O-K to the medical community, as it is the “appropriate protocol”.

                      And he iso ne of the relatively GOOD ones- he works with me and lets me make my own decisions, more so than any doc I’ve ever known before….but NONE of them are going to step outside of the protocols….and especially not to the uninitiated.

                      So basically, modern doctors are just PRACTITIONERS of the “accepted protocols” that they’ve been trained and licensed to provide….and any time they even remotely stray from those protocols, they risk serious trouble.

                      This is why modern medicine is so ineffective and destructive.

                      More people have access to healthcare today than ever before inv the history of the world. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent on medical tests and procedures….everyone goes to the doctor and is on some drugs…and yet people have never been in such wretched health- so obviously something is wrong.

                      And vaccines should be the first things on the list to be tossed.

                      I’ve heard and read many old doctors say that they’ve never seen a case of cancer in an UNvaccinated person.

                      Ceasing all vaccinations would be the greatest cancer prevention action that the world would ever see.

                • Dear Brandonjin,

                  Thanks for this information. It is exactly the sort of practical consumer information I need right now.

                  Very much appreciated.

                  Accounts among CBD/THC sellers seem to diverge somewhat. Some say you really don’t really need THC unless you just want to get high.

                  Others say the THC isn’t just to get high. it also kills cancer cells.

                  Guess I need to clear that up at some point in time.

              • Bevin,

                Infinitecbd is a Colorodo-based company that sells CBD in numerous forms, like liquid isolate (they specifically don’t use the term oil), capsules, gummies, etc. Their products do not contain THC, which I know is what you’re looking for. However, they do claim that their CBD helps with chronic pain, and inflammation, which is related to cancer. Based on the checkout page they do ship to Taiwan (it is a selectable option), but I cannot verify this myself. If you have family or a contact in the US, they can buy and possibly ship to you if you can’t buy direct.

                From their site:

                “Many describe CBD as being like THC, just without the psychoactive effects. Although this is true, CBD works as an endocannabinoid modular. This means when a disease starts to take over your body it will create an imbalance within a body system. The CBD then works to get those systems to balance back to where they should be; healthy, working condition.”

                They don’t claim it cures cancer and obviously the FDA hasn’t evaluated their statements and such. I heard about these guys from a Libertarian podcast I listen to so they’re not part of the mainstream like Amazon. Figured I’d drop the link so you could at least take a look: https://infinitecbd.com/what-is-cbd/

                Maybe you can start with this stuff or something similar until others here hook you up with the good stuff.

                • Brandon, there have been studies with double blind groups that show THC is lethal to cancer cells.

                  CBD has been shown to be an effective analgethat not only supplies various chemicals your body needs and doesnt produce much of as you age, esp. after 60.

                  Big pharm hates these studies so they are mostly done in countries where the FDA has no say.

                  It would seem to me that buying CBD with THC in a state where it’s legal and shippin g it with a plain CBD oil label would be a no-brainer….if you know somebody in one of those states. 50 years ago my graduating class took a long senior trip. We were threatened to not take alcohol so I set my mind how to pass a search of my luggage. It didn’t take long to figure out I could get tribe sized bottles of Sccope mouthwash and fill them Everclear I had tinted with food coloring to look like the orriginal. Some epoxy on the caps ensured they appeared to be new, unopened bottles. There’s a workaround for anything.

                  • I’ve read that baking soda is used in chemo but no study was ever done to see what components of the chemo are doing the heavy lifting. For all we know it’s the cheap and harmless baking soda.

                    And since vitamin C was mentioned I’ve read how official vitamin C studies are intentionally done with reduced dosages that are not effective.

                • Sad thing is: Even in states where pot is legal, it is patently illegal to ship the stuff to places where it is not (On both ends!)- so nobody with the potent stuff (the THC that makes it work) is going to sell it mail-order.

                  And even in the states where pot is legal, they strictly regulate what forms are legal- so that anything that might pass for medicine is banned…unless it is impotent.

                • That’s an excellent idea 8. I have no doubt that the THC is the real deal. I saved 2 hemp oil products, one with and one without THC, on my wish list on Amazon. The one with THC is no longer available for sale.

                  I think the best bet for someone looking to buy the stuff online is by going to the dark web and buying it with bitcoin or something.

            • Dear 8.

              Not at all. Not to worry. No problem.

              Let me see if I can order the stuff direct myself first, so I don’t burden you guys. If not, then I may need your help as middlemen.

              I will give Eric my email info and he can share it with you.

              Thanks again in advance.

            • Dear Nunzio,

              It’s a real problem. Sort of the same problem we were talking about with why we can no longer get good cars.

              It always gets down to violations of the NAP, directly or indirectly, overriding what people want.

              I have managed to get B17, but I don’t know if it’s high grade enough. It seemed to hold off my cancer for a while at least.

              • Bevin, Jaso,

                Sad but all-too-true. While the doctors themselves often have the best motives, they (like many other highly-educated people) are often not the brightest people- nor those who think for themselves- but rather, they are those who accept what they have been taught- be it right or wrong- and that is what they adhere to (That must be why they call it “training”).

                Witness the recent reversals on all of the dietary “science” in which, after creating a couple of generations of diseased lardasses, they now realize was ass-backwards.

                But the doctors were told that this stuff was correct, and so they relied on the anecdotal “studies” that pass for science- and nay HAD to propagate that info, lest they be labeled a heretic by TPTB.
                \
                Most doctors are STILL pushing that faulty dietary advice, because it can take decades for “new info” to filter down to the entire profession- and by then, they’ll probably have moved on from what they are preaching now.

                And that’s just a simple thing, like what foods a normal person should eat. Imagine the same scenario applied to complicated diseases with dangerous treatments!

                And Eric is right- we are all different. That is why no one set of dieatry guidelines will ever work 100% for everyone- so how much less so would treatments for diseases which affect many different aspects of one’s body? And that would apply to alternative treatments too. One has to find what works for them.

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