The No Fly License

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The Orwellian spin cycle is picking up speed.

From “parking services” – i.e., the government worker who puts parking tickets under your car’s windshield wiper – to the “shared responsibility payments” being extorted by the IRS on behalf of the health insurance mafia as punishment for declining to be mulcted by the insurance mafia – to the “upgraded” driver’s licenses being pushed on people, without which you’ll be degraded by not only being  denied permission to leave the country, you’ll be denied permission to travel (by air) within the country.

You’ll also be denied permission to enter “secure” federal buildings – though that one’s not so onerous because who wants to enter federal buildings. Most of us enter them because we have to – so there is one upside to thee “upgraded” licenses.

Which are only incidentally driver’s licenses.

They are really national ID cards.

The REAL ID card, as they’re styled. 

And the “upgrade” – as that is styled – is trackable biometric tagging, just the right word. Like the ear tags ranchers use to keep track of their cattle.

Without which they aren’t allowed beyond the barbed wire. Just like us.

The REAL ID will also plug the cow – whoops, person – into “ . . .national linked databases allowing millions of employees at all levels of government around the national to access personal data.”

That data being … everything.

Not just your DMV record, date of birth, sex and the usual data pertaining to driving. The REAL ID will tie everything about you that’s been uploaded to government/corporate data bases into one easily accessible (by the government and corporations) place. When an armed government worker pulls you over, he’ll be able to know you better than your spouse does just by scanning your card. Also your bank, employer and everyone else you’re forced to ID yourself to. 

And if you don’t get the REAL ID?  It’s the reservation for you.

How did this happen?

The REAL ID Act was imposed upon Americans back in 2005 by the enemies of freedom – that is, by George W. Bush, his puppet master, Dick Cheney and the politicians of both the Democrat and Republican persuasion – who voted to rescind the freedoms of Americans in the aftermath of the (ahem) terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

In the name of “fighting terror,” Americans would be terrorized – forced to submit to fingerprinting, retinal-scanning and other such biometric cattle tagging in order to travel . . . anywhere.

Including within the United States.

In order to transact business . . . with anyone.

Without the REAL ID, you will be functionally excommunicated from American life.

There were, however, logistic and technology problems with the REAL ID. Ear-tagging the entire populace entails a lot of work – which involved a lot of time.

Money, too.

Three years after the passage of the REAL ID Act, all 50 states had filed for implementation extensions. The creepily named Department of Homeland Security – creepy because it is a literal English translation of the Sicherheitsdeinst which existed in the Heimat of Nazi Germany, the same Nazi Germany that George W. Bush’s grandfather Sen. Prescott Bush snuggled up to prior to and during World War II – responded by issuing various fatwas demanding “full compliance” by such and such a date.

The most recent being January, 2018 – when “full enforcement” is to be achieved.

Which brings me to the creepy nudging “notification” sent my way via the Virginia (where I live) DMV. It informs me that my driver’s license is up for renewal and that I have the option to upgrade to a REAL ID – for which I will have to present myself in person, in order to be fingerprinted or scanned; whatever the form of “biometric” ear-tagging happens to be in my state.

If do not “comply” – their word, an ominous word – then “beginning October 1, 2020” I will no longer be able to board a domestic flight or enter a secure federal facility.

And neither will you, if you decline to comply.

The REAL ID is an upgraded internal passport, as well as an ear-tagging for the populace. The Soviet Union under Stalin used to issue internal passports; you could not travel from Moscow to another city, for example, without the passport.

Now the United States has internal passports – or will, a little more than two years from now.

One can still decline the REAL ID (for the moment) without losing one’s “privilege” to travel domestically by car – but that is surely a temporary thing. It makes no sense to require an internal passport to travel from one state to another by airplane – or even within a state by airplane –  and yet allow people to travel by car without the internal passport.

Interesting that the “freedoms” the “terrorists” supposedly hated us for are becoming nonexistent.

Mission Accomplished, as The Chimp once said.

. . .

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409 COMMENTS

  1. Top ten places in Latin America to live after retirement…

    2. Mexico
    Mexico is a country where lifestyle is close to the first world. In addition to offering a wide variety of climatic zones, the health system is good to excellent. “But what we like most about Mexico and most of the expatriates is the vibrant life and culture,” writes Living International’s Latin America editor.

    1. Costa Rica

    The first place is also occupied by a Latin American country. Costa Rica is considered a paradise, which attracts retired people due to its tropical climate, its low cost of living, an excellent and at the same time affordable health system, cheap real estate and its natural beauty.

    “In a world of growing insecurity, Costa Rica is a model of reliability … Quietly it has become a model country, which stands out in the region … Thanks to the low crime rate one can feel safe in any part of the country, because be it day or night, “says the Annual Global Retirement Index 2018.

    América Latina: dónde vivir mejor luego de jubilarse
    https://www.dw.com/es/américa-latina-dónde-vivir-mejor-luego-de-jubilarse/a-43460477

      • Yeah, posted it to GesichtBuch an hour ago and it got several more likes added to the fan site.
        https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-01/16/17/enhanced/webdr04/enhanced-1166-1421448844-27.jpg

        = = = = = = = = = McCain = = = = = = = = =
        John McCain was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone, at that time, the Panama Canal was under U.S. control. His father and his paternal grandfather were Naval Academy graduates and both became four-star United States Navy admirals.

        Altogether, he attended about 20 schools. In 1951, the family settled in Northern Virginia, and McCain attended Episcopal High School, a private preparatory boarding school in Alexandria. He referred to himself as an Episcopalian as recently as June 2007 after which date he said he came to identify as a Baptist.

        Following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather, McCain entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. He came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel and did not always obey the rules. In 1958 McCain graduated with a class rank of 894 out of 899.

        = = = = = = = Income Tax = = = = = = = = = = =
        Income tax rates will go down for 2018, and it’s the last year for the Obamacare penalty which requires you to have health insurance for at least 9 months of the year.

        = = = = = = = Obamacare was created by AARP even though 93% of its members calls were against it = = = = = = = = = = =

        How AARP support for Obamacare was bought and how the law results in a windfall for AARP that exceeds $1 billion
        http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/24/how-aarp-support-for-obamacare-was-bought-and-paid-for.html

            • Nunzio; re: “gas mileage” Your mileage may vary. Good question. My last sailboat had a 50 hp Suzuki which I motored the entire way over to the Bahamas (70 miles to West End of Grand Bahama island) I burned 10 gallons and was doing probably 15 mph. I went about 15 miles out of my way to the north though so I really went about 90 miles on ten gallons. What most cruisers do is run around 10 mph. If they have a twin screw, they only run one engine at a time. This usually allows one to get around 3 to 5 gallons an hour. I’m looking for a boat that has at least 300 gallons, preferably 400 or 500 gallons. Yes, that’s a lot of money, but once I’m there I don’t pay rent or utilities, I don’t pay for cable or internet either. I only pay for food and gas.

              It’s about 1000 miles to the Virgin Islands from West Palm Beach If I pick up a boat there and cruise down it will cost me around $1500 to $2000 in fuel putting along at 5 to 10 knots. It will take me longer too, but I’m not going to be in that much of a rush anyways, and once I’m down there I will more than make up what I spent in fuel by not paying rent while I’m down there. Top quality tv antennas can be had for $30.00, and wifi booster recievers are also quite affordable and more than effective at connecting to the cafes, restaurants etc. on shore. A top marine quality solar voltaic system ill run around $1,500 to $2,000 for what I want to do with it, but again that will pay for itself in less than two years.

              • Brian, motorized bicycles are cheap and efficient, but if you have a solar voltaic system on your boat, then might as well just get an electric bike. Plenty of cruisers leave their boats down in central and south America over the summer when they’re up north, and nothing happens. My cousin leaves his boat down there all year round. He pays $100.00 per month which includes the boat being started up and aired out periodically. They don’t just store it, but it is maintained for the same price. He’s been doing this for decades without ever having a problem.
                Thieves are everywhere, but there are ways to hide the easy to steal stuff, and the really valuable stuff like the engines, solar panels, etc. are all bolted to the boat. Here again, cruisers are a tight bunch so it doesn’t take long to get to know those in the boats around you, and everybody looks out for each other. The cool thing is that after just a year you find out that the world isn’t as big as we think it is. It’s easy to cross paths with people over and over again.

            • Brian, re: cost of fuel vs. electricity. You could easily pick up a 30 to 35 foot boat, toss the engines, and install a couple of electric motors that would more than pay for a trip down to Central America. Boats with seized engines usually go for next to nothing.

              • Thanks Shnarkle for that bit of information. I intend to research how much watts it would take to propel a boat like that when I get home and have some time. Yesterday and today I have been using my phone because I am out on a trucking job. I am also wondering if I could bring a motorcycle on board so that I can travel around a bit when the boat is docked. I have heard that theives are quite abundant in South America, so I recon that I should surround the boat edge with electric netting.

                • Brian, keep in mind that the combination of salt and moisture wreaks havoc with things like electric motors, and pretty much anything that has corrosive parts (Motorcycles)…BIG TIME.

                  Your two main battles on a boat used in saltwater, are: Making sure everything is uber-strong so that it doesn’t break when things get rough; and…corrosion!

                  Life around a boat is a never-ending war against corrosion…and the second you let your guard down, even for a moment, it’ll bitch-slap you silly.

            • Nunzio, the problem with staying in the channel is that is where all of those HUGE ships, barges, etc. are cruising and you have to get out of their way or get run over. I’ve been in channels that were nowhere near as dangerous as the Mississippi and damn near got tossed up onto the levy. Mix in a night without any sleep, and it can turn into a recipe for disaster really fast.

              A buddy of mine is an engineer on a crew boat for one of those big oil companies out in the gulf. He showed me on my charts places that are clearly marked that I needed to stay out of because they were shipping lanes, intersections etc. I ended up sitting right in the middle of one of those intersections because my boat broke down in the middle of the night in a storm. By the time the sun was up in the sky, none of us on board were looking too sharp.

              • Yeah, Shnark- night time could be a little interesting- but in daylight, I don’t think it’s a big deal- lots of people do it all the time. It’s not like it’s bumper-to-bumper boats (Or should i have said “gunwale-to-gunwale”?).

                Kinda like New York Harbor and and environs- Tons of every kind of boats and ships you can imagine, from freighters and cruise ships, to tugs and barges, to very fast ferries and work boats, all intermingled with yachts and cruisers and runabouts, etc. and it can be quite crowded- plus you have some wild currents in the rivers, and rocks and submerged pilings- not to mention intersecting currents – but no one even gives it a second thought; no one says ‘You don’t want to go boating there!” – But it’s no big deal, and half the people in the small boats probably don’t even have a clue as to what they are doing.

                Those big ships are very slow. Pretty essy to stay out of their way, and out of their blind spots- and just remember: No brakes.

              • Nunzio, I’m not telling anyone to not go boating. Originally I was just pointing out that some rivers are much less turbulent and crowded than others. Those container ships may not look like they’re moving very fast, but you’d be surprised how quickly they can be right up next to you. 30 knots is 30 knots regardless of the size of the vessel. They just don’t look like they’re moving all that fast. With all that traffic, it isn’t all that easy to see channel markers sometimes, add some rain or even bright sun and while you’re staring into your chartplotter screen, you don’t see that rock, or that boat that’s just sitting there minding their own business.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLdGKsExHl8

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYX1rIe3SaQ

                • Well, Shnark, you were kinda making it sound like a cruise down the Mississippi was tantamount to imminent death.. 🙂

                  I mean, C’mon- people in their 70’s do it regularly. Like anything else, you just need to have a little knowledge, and use caution.

                  Container ships do 30 knots down the river?

            • Brian, maps are sold separately. Usually they won’t have maps for Central and South America installed already. Paper charts can also run into some money. A single chart usually runs around $20.00, and all the paper charts to get you from Corpus Christi to Panama would probably cost around $100.00 to $150.00 if you can even get them.

              A good class on navigation is also going to cost a few hundred dollars.

              • Hi Schnarkle,

                Longtime fantasy of mine: acquire a WW II-era battleship (ideally, Bismarck class) and crew it, then cruise it around international waters, my own personal Reich, so to speak.

                • Better win SEVERAL state lotteries, Eric. Do you have ANY idea how much diesel or bunker oil that behemoth goes through? If, for some nutty reason, there were a need for a modern battleship, built up from the keel (unlike the four Iowa-class tubs that the Navy would mothball, then bring out every once in awhile), it’d be NUCLEAR-powered.
                  However, why bother with something that FLOATS? Several eccentric Brits have used your idea to take over some stations that the UK built out in the North Sea, just off the Umberland coast, during the War, as both lookouts and safe havens for RN craft. And I like the story of the pirate radio boat that was ultimately sabotaged and sank on orders of PM Wilson to deal with those “upstarts”.

                    • Eric, only the black ones have those- and ya wouldn’t want one’a them, ’cause they’re pretty useless for anything else- all they do is go in circles, and smell pretty bad.

                  • Doug, we were watching a movie yesterday called Killer Elite, a true story of GB’s need to get the oil from the Arabs and the lengths they’d go to do so.

                    It takes place in the 70’s so there’s a scene where they play a recording of what was then the news of the day. This just in, a large rescue effort is underway for the sunken pirate radio ship Caroline. The Brits couldn’t even stand rock and roll……you know I can be found, sittin home all alone. If you can’t come around, at least please telephone…..

                    I though it was a good way to get the jist of what the people who controlled govt. would do since that’s another true story.

                    The movie Pirate Radio was based on those events.

                  • You can have my Fluke 12. Using it the other day and it slid off the second rung of a ladder and slowly slid to the wood floor hung up in it’s leads. I didn’t think anything about it till I got back to it and found it off. I couldn’t power it up so I took it apart. No bad connections and the battery was 9.6 V. Can’t find a problem with my other meters. Probably not worth the price to have fixed now even though it’s lived it’s life in a hard case tucked in foam and looks like new. First meter I ever had die on me. The problem is it’s the only meter I have with inductance capabilities, the very reason I bought it. crap

      • GTC, re: “I’m not looking for martyrdom, so I’m not going to do it in silence, by any means.” The problem with this statement is that a martyr is someone who speaks up. It literally means to bear witness. The trick is to speak up in such a way as to effect change, but the problem is that the masses are in a stupor, and can’t hear what you’re saying.

        I agree with the sentiment of what you’re saying, but I also know quite a bit about human nature, and when things get really bad, people turn into animals. People are already depraved. When someone stabs a kid for his video game, or a few bucks, that’s nothing in comparison to what people are going to do when they have no food, no water, no government to protect them for their own saaaafety, or a even a government that is peppering crowds with gas, bullets, etc. for their own saaaafety.

        Standing one’s ground is NOT worth dying for. There are principles that one may die for, but standing one’s ground is the means by which one may die, but not the end itself. That’s crazy.

        In Florida there’s a ‘stand your ground’ law which allows one to defend themselves when attacked. When one is lawfully allowed to carry a concealed firearm, this becomes a recipe for disaster for at least one party in a confrontation. Treyvon Martin comes to mind. If Zimmerman hadn’t had a gun, he would have simply called the law on Martin rather than confronting him. If Zimmerman didn’t have a gun, but Martin confronted Zimmerman, Zimmerman would have driven off. Why? Because Zimmerman didn’t know if Martin had a gun. Martin almost did have a gun because Zimmerman didn’t really have enough training to effectively protect himself.

        This is probably one of the biggest problems with those who are opting to leave or stay. They aren’t making any preparations.

        It’s like the climate change fanatics. They say that sea levels are going to rise 20 feet in the near future, but where are any of them building their homes higher to prepare? There are loads of these clowns living here in Florida, but NONE of them are building their water front places higher to prepare for the higher tides. Why? Because they really don’t believe their own stories.

        • Shnarkle, I highly recommend you revisit the Saint Martin incident. Your assessment is way off base with the actual facts.

          “When one is lawfully allowed to carry a concealed firearm, this becomes a recipe for disaster for at least one party in a confrontation.”

          You entirely miss the point of concealed carry and stand your ground. The one party that it is a “recipe for disaster” needs it to be a “disaster” i.e. the aggressor should be met with a disaster. In the case of Saint Martin the thug bastard was the aggressor and clearly got what he deserved.

          “…Zimmerman didn’t really have enough training to effectively protect himself.”

          Huh?! Zimmerman obviously effectively protected himself.

          • ” I highly recommend you revisit the Saint Martin incident. Your assessment is way off base with the actual facts.”

            Skunk, I would only suggest that you spend some time improving your reading comprehension skills.

            shnark: “When one is lawfully allowed to carry a concealed firearm, this becomes a recipe for disaster for at least one party in a confrontation.”
            skunk: “You entirely miss the point of concealed carry and stand your ground. The one party that it is a “recipe for disaster” needs it to be a “disaster” i.e. the aggressor should be met with a disaster.”

            No doubt about it. Where did I suggest otherwise?

            “skunk: “In the case of Saint Martin the thug bastard was the aggressor and clearly got what he deserved.”
            Again, I’m not mourning over Saint Treyvon.

            “…Zimmerman didn’t really have enough training to effectively protect himself.”

            skunk: “Huh?! Zimmerman obviously effectively protected himself.”

            Here is where you’re wrong. Zimmerman was lucky, he even admitted as much, repeatedly in court. Treyvon almost got his gun and blew Zimmerman away.
            My point is that Zimmerman should have had a bit more training. There is no excuse for letting St. Martin get anywhere near him, especially near enough to get a hold on his gun. Zimmerman should have known and had the reflexes to pump at least three or four rounds into St. Martin before he got anywhere near him.

            Consult the experts why don’t you? They all agree that Zimmerman was lucky, and had no business carrying a concealed weapon without more training. It takes no more than a second for a would be thug to close a 50′ gap between you and them. Zimmerman didn’t even have his gun out. Talk to law enforcement officers, and they will all tell you that they would have had Martin in their sights long before he got anywhere near them. As soon as Martin started heading their way, they would have all blown him to pieces. They know even with a chest full of lead, a guy can keep coming because he doesn’t feel anything, especially if they’re jacked up on adrenaline.

            Zimmerman wasn’t a “stand your ground” situation. Zimmerman was following Martin and stopped him to find out what he was doing in that neighborhood. Zimmerman could have just called the law down on Martin and let them handle it, but instead he’s now a marked man, and had to fork out a whole lot of scratch just to defend himself in court while the media turned him into a pariah. Do you even remember all the death threats he was getting? Do you think all those people who were threatening to kill him, or calling for his death are going to forget about him? That guy is going to be looking over his shoulders for the rest of his life, if he hasn’t already consulted the services of a plastic surgeon.

            He would have been much more effective at protecting himself if he’d simply shot Martin and drove away.

            Look at all the lawyers who have gotten together to represent those who shoot an aggressor because they’re afraid for their life or the lives of their family. I can remember notifying law enforcement of possible weapons during traffic stops 30 years ago. It’s the first thing you do, but nowadays you’re just inviting them to confiscate all of your worldly possessions.

            It doesn’t matter if you’re in the right. What matters is that you discharged a weapon, and now you will have to spend your life savings on the best defense team you can afford just for the possibility of staying out of prison for the rest of your life.

            I knew some people who were legally growing marijuana back in California. Two thieves broke in, one with a gun; to rob the guy. He wrestled the gun away from him, and shot him to death. Then he went after the next guy, but he got away. Then he called the law, and spent the next few years preparing for his court case. Fun times. The only thing
            Zimmerman did effectively was to put himself through hell for a few years learning the legal and financial ramifications of killing someone. He now has a much greater understanding of the law, and a significantly smaller balance in his bank account. Did Zimmerman have shooter’s insurance to cover all those pesky legal expenses? How does one protect themselves when they’ve got a target painted on their forehead?

  2. For those who want a “best case scenario” for what will happen to The West, look at Singapore. Safe, sterile, information controlled, almost total surveillance with just enough vice to allow the drones to blow off steam. The absolute template for the guilded cage.

    Best case. But I expect much worse.

    Bourdain put it best in his show, “Disneyland with the death penalty”.

  3. Not being confrontational here but I ask Nunz, Cold Frog, Schnarkel, and all the other “runners” where exactly are we supposed to run to? Where can one go to escape the Globalists plans? Is not leaving the country also just another form of moving the line in the sand, another attempt at avoiding a confrontation with TPTB?

    Name me a place to go to that is “true” Libertarian worthy and I will race you there.

    • Hi Skunk,

      Ditto on all of that.

      I have the option to go to Switzerland, which is a civilized country but not very Libertarian. It i also very expensive, which brings me to… what would I do? My means are not sufficient to retire on. And I am much too young to retire. Yet, I would need to work to earn a living. Doing what? My German is barely functional. I cannot write in German.

      I’m too old to start over, but to young to retire or even semi-retire, both for financial and just-because reasons.

      So, here I stay.

      Knowing it might be a huge mistake. But the other option could be much worse.

      What’s needed is FTL drive…

      • Not that I would choose Switzerland but, what does it matter if you can write in German? If epautos is your job now, there is no reason you could not be doing it from anywhere, in English. Hell, I have been paid well for sitting on a beach drinking scotch, working from my laptop, using hand signals to communicate ‘two fingers, that bottle’ to the barman who could barely manage ‘welcome friend’ in english. Can’t see why you coldn’t too.

        Also, I have yet to meet a European that did not have basic English skills, not that I have met them all, and most have better comprehension than what I see from most english-only north americans.

        As to Skunks ‘Name me a place to go to that is “true” Libertarian worthy and I will race you there.’
        There is no utopia. I have no ‘Libertarian escape package plan’ to offer. All locations have trade offs. What I have done to achieve my bit of ‘peace and paradise’ would be unthinkable and unworkable to most anyway.

        To be clear, I also have chosen to ‘run’ inside my country for now. Fortunately, I also have an ‘outside’ arrangement as backup for when it gets too hot here. However, nothing is guaranteed, governments change, wars happen.

        But a simple guide that has worked for me;

        Consume the minimal, thus avoiding the work/tax to spend/tax.
        Carry no debt. Not easy or always practical but it is possible.
        Buy used for cash whenever possible. Maintain what you have.
        Avoid all interaction with any level of government where possible.
        Don’t marry a ‘western’ woman.

        Another friend did something different. He went to Asia, traveled and met the locals. He basically backpacked the whole trip, often invited to stay with locals. Usually very poor but amazingly happy and content locals. Instead of $100+/night to hotels, he was giving $20 to a family for basically bed-and-breakfast. A lot of money to a $4/day family.

        After returning to N.A., he kept in contact with one family, sent them some money and sponsored one of their kids through school. Several years later he arranged to retire with this family. He built them a basic but modern house, with an inlaw type suite that would be his. He is now treated like family and has a base from which to travel and has been touring Asia for years. However there is risk. He does not own the house and could get screwed over. Unlikely though as he still supports the family by buying necessities and luxuries that they would likely go without if he were not there. He also paid for a new well and pump for the village, so they ALL treat him very well now.

        There are options.

        • Froggie:

          “Consume the minimal, thus avoiding the work/tax to spend/tax.
          Carry no debt. Not easy or always practical but it is possible.
          Buy used for cash whenever possible. Maintain what you have.
          Avoid all interaction with any level of government where possible.
          Don’t marry a ‘western’ woman.”

          I almost thought i was reading my own words!

          Words to live by! Works for me!

          If just 10% of the population would do those things, we’d have a renaissance!

          • Nunzio re: “Federales”. My dad used to drive down to Mexico City when he was in his early 20’s in an old chevy everyone called “the pig” because it guzzled gas as it smoked and rattled and squealed its way down the road. Back then the Federales could be a problem, but even back then it wasn’t that big of a deal. You just played stupid, and handed them some money and were on your way. Even today it’s really a matter of just being polite, and respectful, and not looking all that wealthy, but on the water, it’s a different story. They don’t want bad publicity, and they know that cruisers are a tight knit group and word gets around if someone gets a shake down, the next thing they know there’s no money coming in at all. They want people to cruise down there in their fancy yachts and spend money there. They don’t care if you’re cruising through there in some old leaking junk or some fancy yacht, they want your money coming into their economy.

            The Federales that everyone needs to be concerned about are in the US, and the Mexicans don’t have anything like “civil asset forfeiture”.

            • I’ve heard conflicting stories about Mexico, Shnark. A lot have basically been saying as you’ve said above- and i hope that’s true in the majority of cases.

              The guy I know who had the 52′ Gulfstream (or was it a Gulfstar?)- He knows someone who was driving through Mexico in their RV- got stopped; ordered outc of the vehicle. The pigs hopped in and took off with it, and that was the last they ever saw of it and all that was in it. But of course, that could happen anywhere- it doesn’t mean that it’s the norm- and quite frankly, I’d much rather deal with them than our POS porkers, ANY DAY!

          • Nunzio, re: ”
            We proffer a real solution- a positive action that can be taken by many”

            I was at one of the local church’s social events a while back and they had this thing where we would all break up into groups of a dozen or so and respond to some “ice breaker” questions. One was, if money was no object, where would you like to travel to? I couldn’t wrap my head around the question because when you’re cruising around in a cheap sailboat, money really isn’t an issue. When you’re hiking into some country with a backpack, one doesn’t need much money. Even taking a cruise can be really affordable when you know where to get your tickets. My mother was on a cruise a few years ago and noticed that people were getting off at ports and intentionally not getting back on the boat. She also said that she met some people who were retired and had sold everything to live on the cruise ship permanently. They say it’s cheaper than living in a retirement or assisted living home.

            However, there is a learning curve when it comes to jumping into a boat, and it can be daunting if one has no prior experience. Technological gadgets can make a BIG difference in allowing one to get on the water and get somewhere. Learning how to program an auto helm and reading a chartplotter is simpler and easier than learning how to chart a course on paper charts, and sitting at the helm, staring at a compass ALL day long.
            Then there’s the chance of getting sea sick, or not knowing what to do if a thru hull fitting suddenly fails, or any of a number of other scenarios plays out. Many insist that the saying “shit happens” is derived from the sailing community because shit happens almost every time one goes out sailing.

            For me it’s more like those who don’t understand parachuting out of planes. They don’t see what sense it makes to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. This is what I’ve been doing for the last couple of decades. I started leaving a perfectly good country that people around the world want to come to. The thing is that knowing how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane also enables me to jump out of an airplane that is plummeting to earth. I can also see that I belong on the earth, not the airplane. I can also see that the airplane is eventually going to run out of gas and plummet to the earth. My instinct suggest to me that the odds are that those circumstances are not conducive to a soft landing, but people walk away from hard landings too so I can see why people opt to just see what happens and hope for the best.

            There are a lot of people who are growing their own food, farmers can take care of themselves when things get bad, especially if their nosy uncle leaves them alone.

      • Eric, re: stringing up Mcstain What you’re describing is more than accurate which is one of the biggest reasons why I’m planning on not just going on another vacation, but not coming back. When I see hordes of people “taking it to the streets” like one is likely to see in many third world banana republics, I’m not filled with warm fuzzy feelings of safety, and if history is any indication, what follows isn’t going to be better than what we have, but far worse. The best case scenario is for the government to simply implode on its own weight, but for that to happen effectively with minimal blowback requires people to become self sufficient.

        All those people on welfare, Big Pharma’s drugs etc. are going to go completely batshit crazy when the punchbowl dries up. It’s going to make zombie apocalypse movies look like chic flicks.

        It’s probably different where you’re at, but where I’m at my ammo falls apart quite rapidly in this salt air.

        • Shnark, I don’t think that the government will implode (Maybe on a “for show” staged level it will); I think rather it’s society that is imploding, while if anything, the government is getting stronger- and as society continues to go south, the government will get even stronger yet, proffering the “solution” to people’s problems; problems which that very created.

          Look at the state of the family.
          Look at the state of Christianity (Now relegated to feel-good psycho-babble and political-correctness, doled out by 501c3 corps…)
          Look at the state of private-sector economics: It is impossible to start a truly free-enterprise private business here that can compete and be successful; and people are paying $400 a share for stock in a worthless company that has never earned a profit, because they like the unicorn farts proffered by it’s head honcho.
          Look at edumacation: College has become nothing but a hotbed of socialist indoctrination, whose graduates either continue to live off of their parents, or get a government job, or one that is subsidized and controlled by the government. It’s almost impossible to find a household that doesn’t have a member who isn’t becoming a cop or mercenary killer.

          Etc.

          No…this has been engineered, and has been implemented over many decades to reduce a huge population to utter helplessness, so that the government can pick up all of the pieces that the family, community, church and individual used to.

          One day they’ll just pull the plug and shut off the electricity and stop the welfare checks, and everyone from the middle-class suburbanite, to the welfare queen in the subsidized apartment will be begging for “law and order” to be restored, and for bread and cheese to eat; and Uncle will be there, conveniently with a plan, and everything the masses desire, just like he was there with the Patriot Act after 9-11.

          • Nunzio, I couldn’t agree more, but during and after the scenario you envision, people will wake up and do exactly what you and I are talking about doing right now. Everyone has their breaking point, and when people see that the government is going to eventually sit back and let people see their own version of what happened in Louisiana, Texas, Puerto Rico, etc. people will eventually learn to fend for themselves, those who are still capable of manifesting a learning curve.

            • Dunno Shnarks- all we can do is speculate- but so many people are utterly helpless today- and even those who aren’t, are just so likely to do vut zyou are told or take the path of least resistence when offered some “perks”, etc.

              In this country, my biggest concern in a SHTF scenario (and something few others seem to concern themselves with) is what the various cuts of pork/LEOs/alphabet-soup agency agents will do when the control on them is loosened in such a situation, and there will be even less fear on their part of any punishment for their actions then there even is now- but they will still have access to all of the weapons and technological doohickeies….

              Years ago I lurked on a couple of their foruns, when I could still stomach it; and saw others posting on general homestead/survivalist/etc. sites. The sick bastards have some dastardly ideas and visions of grandeur and personal glory, which involve being the local dictator/enforcer/potentate.

              Those, and the ones who may be still be following the directives of their various agencies, are going to be the biggest problem. The angry mobs and homies will likely never make it out of the cities, and izf they do, they won’t get far in farm country. Not an issue in my book.

              But the pigs…. The biggest threat to our liberty now..and even more so when things go south. That is probably one of the biggest reasons to get out while we can.

              For those who only wake up when TSHTF, it’s going to be too late to do anything. For those who think that their salvation is in hunkering down, they need to be LIVING apart from the system now, in the place where they intend to stay; and those of us who are leaving- need to have made adequate arrangements and know where we’re going and what we’re doing (Although I am not leaving for fear of a SHTF scenario, but rather to secure more liberty NOW, and enjoy my life more fully).

              Hey, if subject is so foreign and so resisted on even a Libertarian site such as this, imagine the resistance the average schmoe would have? I think what we have seen here in this discussion is a perfect microcosm of how no one- not even those who should know better, are going to be able to do anything.

              • Hi Nunz, I think in that situation if the costumed thugs lose their “shooting was justified” protection from the courts a lot more of us will have no compunction against shooting back at them. Since most of them are pussy bullies not used to getting pushback from their victims they should experience a fast attitude adjustment. I have hunting rifles and shotguns passed down from my grandfather so no record/registration for the LEO’s to track down, plus no friends/neighbors/acquaintances aware of them. My two cents on the stay or go debate is each individual has to do what works best in their particular situation; mine is too keep a low profile but am ready to stand my ground against the approaching darkness.

                • Hi Mike,

                  What you say makes a lot of sense, except considering the cop-sucking mindset of most today, they wont even realize what these cops are up to until it happens to them- much less be prepared for it.

                  Don’t forget: Those bastards have access to lots of military-grade automatic weapons; communications gear; and all sorts of stuff. Many of them are actually planning for an apocalyptic scenario, and getting their porker buddies in on the idea- so they already have the group training and experience from their “job”, plus their own plans.

                  A likely scenario will be: They’ll show up amongst a group of civilians [Bear in mind, I’ve read their own describing this); establish “authority” and disarm the civilians. and be the lords of their own little fiefdom [Isn’t that really what every cop ultimately wants, and why they become cops?].

                  The civilians will view the approaching pigs as friends and protectors- and thus will offer no resistance, because they will be welcoming the pigs, and the pigs will take advantage of that brief period of beneficence to establish control, by doing whatever they have to do, “for their own good”….

                  And if anyone is wise enough to get the jump on the pigs, if/when the fact becomes known, they will counted as the next Osama Sadam Snowden…..

                  It’s going to be a mess, and there will be no winners- just corpses and survivors who will be the subjects of the tyranny that arises from the ashes.

      • eric, on that FTL drive…..when you leave look at west Tx. and pick up that old man with his thumb out. Have thumb, will travel.

    • Skunkbear, the problem is that we’ve all got our own particular flavor of Libertarianism that we prefer so you have to check them all out for yourself. If I can j walk, ride my bike without a helmet, grow vegetables in my front yard, smoke a joint in the park, pay my bills with cash, right in front of a law enforcer with impunity then I’m in a better place. I just read an article about places in Bolivia where the government simply doesn’t see any point in wasting their time collecting taxes because it’s just too remote. The locals know it, and they ignore their tax bills. Some expats like that picture so they go there and LOVE it. They don’t have wifi, they can’t drive their Italian sports car on the bumpy roads, but they like the trade off. If some drunk wanders into your front yard and urinates in your landscaping, you don’t have the luxury of calling the authorities; you’re the authority and you have to toss him off your property yourself. Some people don’t mind this trade off. For some the cost is too high.

      There is something to be said for “saaaaafety” as well. A lower government presence can result in higher crime in some cases so you have to do your own due diligence. Get your own feet on the ground. Puerto Rico has some beautiful beaches, but some people don’t appreciate them when they’re looking at them through bars on their own windows. There is a certain level of saaaafety we all want to preserve, and being completely free sometimes means crossing that line.

      • Brian, in general if you’re out in the open ocean, a rogue wave could come out of nowhere and take down a container ship; it happens and there’s no way to prepare for it. Otherwise, it’s not really any different being a bigger boat in a bigger pond seems about the same. Bigger boats can handle bigger waves. It’s when you get into tight quarters, e.g. marinas, gas docks, etc. that you need to know what you’re doing. Newer boats have “joy sticks” which make maneuvering large vessels child’s play, but then you’re already in a boat that costs so much most just hire a captain and crew to handle it.

        My first boat was 64′ long and my first trip to a new marina resulted in me drifting not just into the dock, but over it. The bow of my barge sent a good 30′ of dock down at least two feet into the water before I got around to giving it enough power to back up off of it.

        • Brian, with your previous experience as mechanic, electrical and landlord, you would have no problem working on the worst of the worst sunk wrecks anywhere. Patching up hulls is child’s play in comparison to working on those engines, rewiring, replumbing, etc. Wood and fiberglass are easy, but you would also be able to handle steel with your experience in welding. Then there’s ferro cement which for anyone who knows how to mix cement is pretty straightforward as well.

          Craigslist, Ebay, yachtworld, and Popyachts are all great sources for good deals on boats. Sometimes you can watch prices on lots of boats fall drastically simultaneously. It’s a bit of a buyer’s market right now.

          • Brian, as much as I enjoy being out on the water, after a few days without seeing any land, it begins to wear on me as well, especially if I’ve been up all night. You begin to see land where there isn’t anything but waves. So it’s like your mind tries to compensate and calm those feelings of anxiety or terror. I think it works fairly well.

            • Brian, you could do what most people do and just work on boats in the boatyard, or if you’ve got the room just have it trucked to your property and work on it there. Lot’s of places still don’t require a permit to keep a boat on your property, and they can double as a mother in laws unit until you get ready to put it back in the water or sell it. Lot’s of buyers prefer a boat that is already hauled out because they can inspect the entire hull, listen to the engines run etc. They also look a lot bigger on the hard. They buyer usually pays to haul it away as well. Some people keep them though because they’re kind of cool for storage, rentals, a place for a son or daughter that can’t get a job with their college degree, etc.

              • I appreciate all of this info. What I presently have in mind is to try to sell everything over the fall and winter, buy a van or a Ryder type truck and convert it into a stealth RV, move to the coast, get a job working on boats while living in the RV, buy a small boat (I am not sure what type yet), then leave the country. Shnarkle, I would be happy to follow the coast line after crossing the Gulf of Mexico. I can learn sailing and work my way up to getting a bigger boat and learning to sail later. You advised to not go out to the open ocean with a small boat. How far away from the coast do I have to be before I am considered to be on the open ocean?

                • I’d better not answer Brian’s question….

                  I’m the guy who took my home-made 14′ kayak out on the Great South Bay during a small craft advisory… (It handled great- better than a big boat!)

                • Brian, I don’t recall saying not to go out into the ocean in a small boat. For me the real danger has always been getting into tight quarters in a large boat. My biggest problem is bumping into stuff. I would also suggest staying very close to shore along the gulf states. Forget about cruising across the gulf as it is peppered with oil rigs, many which have no lights or operational horns. When it gets dark it is really easy to run right into one of these things and sink so fast you barely have time to get off the boat before it’s gone. In some cases it’s only a rusty old pipe jutting out of the water with a burned out light. Hug the coast line all the way down to Mexico, and beyond. I lived in a stealth Ryder box van for a few years as well so you’ll probably have no problem living and cruising in a boat as small as 25 feet, but I would recommend getting something at least 30 feet long, and the wider the better. I also wouldn’t worry about getting a sailboat. Most of the time, you’re going to be motoring anyways. Personally I think the way to go is to get a nice comfortable cruiser; something around 35 to 40′ long; twin screw and eventually step a tabernacle mast on it. Gulstar makes a motor yacht that sits on a sailboat hull which would be perfect for a motorsailor conversion. When the wind isn’t blowing all that hard, once you’re out in open water, you don’t really have to worry about screwing up. Sailing isn’t really all that complicated. Watch a couple of videos on youtube and you’ll know as much as most weekend warriors on the water. 95% of it is fine tuning, and well into the realm of the perfectionist. The biggest thing to be concerned about is not bumping your head on the boom when you tack.

                  • Shnark, who among us could afford the fuel to run a powerboat, even the boat were given to us for free?!

                    Gallons per hour when you’re running for days/weeks/months…..yikes!

                    A friend back in NY has a c. 30-footer he’s takes a few miles offshore to go fishing- out and back in a short day…..burns 6 gallons per hour…. Even a little outboard to go bopping around in the bay will burn several gallons per hour.

                    Shoot, I think many of us, especially when looking to relocate, would have all we could do to keep a sailboat’s tank full just to run the pony motor when we get near land….. (Unless brian’s independently wealthy and I missed it) 🙂

                    • Re: Cost of fuel for boating. This gives me yet another idea. Some years ago I bought bricks of silicone solar cells and a pure sine wave controller so that I could eventually build my own solar electric system on my homestead. I also got a whole bunch of free window glass. I also bought a soldiering iron with a precise temperature control. All that was left was to assemble everything and buy 9-12 deep cycle batteries.
                      I could instead put the panels on the boat and have a small amount of power to slowly move it.
                      Many of the boats at the Lake of the Ozarks have twin 454s powering them. They do indeed guzzle gas.

                    • Hey Brian, maybe you could make a provision to raise the solar panels into a horizontal position and use them as sails, too! 😉

                      Yeah, trouble with ocean-going powerboats is that ya need twin engines. Twin marine diesels cost mega-bucks, and even they buirn through the fuel.

                      And, as you’ve seen on Lake Of The Ozarks, the gas motors, even on relatively small boats, really suck it down.

                      Heck, my little flat-bottom 20′ clamboat I had when I was a kid, with an 85 horsepower Mercury outboard could really make the gas disappear just going a few miles out into the bay!

                      Nice thing about powerboats though: You point ’em where ya want to go with the steering wheel, like a car, and push the throttle lever, and they go!

                      That gets boring quick though… Sailing would alleviate a good deal of that boredom on a long trip.

              • Gotta be careful buying and selling boats- ‘specially with older ones. You don’t want to get stuck with an old boat that nobody wants- you’ll have to PAY to get rid of it.

                • All my boat owning friends have a saying- your second happiest day is when you buy a boat, the happiest day is when you sell it 😆

              • Brian, you’re in a great spot near the Ohio river. I would stay far away from the mighty Mississippi though as there some spots where the currents can be treacherous, and when the water level gets high someone always ends up aground on a jetty. The route you want is the one that drops you out in Mobile. There are a few locks, but it’s a much more relaxing cruise to the gulf.

                • Thanks Shnarkle, but I live west of the Mississippi River and about 5 miles from the Missouri River, not the Ohio River. The only way I can see to come out at Mobile would be for me to travel to Alabama. I might do exactly that if I find a suitable boat there, but my earlier post was about the possibility of finding a suitable local craft to purchase. I had no intention of trying to go down the Mississippi River during a flood or during a thawing/raining season. Barges filled with coal travel it. I know that they have flat bottoms, but I would think that they still would sink deeper than a 35 foot boat. Am I wrong?

              • So true Nunzio! There’s a guy just about an hour away from me who has this large lot full of old fiberglass boats. He’s had them for sale for decades, and every so often someone comes and buys one, but he’s gotten to a point where it’s time to retire from storing old boat hulls so now he’s got them all listed for free. The guy I used to work for salvaging boats originally picked up an old 50′ wood plank hull; just an open hull with no deck. He ran some pvc pipe over the top, covered it with a tarp and moved in. Then he strapped a 10hp outboard onto the back which allowed him to keep the hull in the middle of the slough as he made his way from Sausalito out to the delta. In less than ten years he went from owning just that hull to living on a 220′ barge with a 5000 sq.ft. house on it. He had a couple of other crane barges as well. One was full of foam to keep it afloat; that was the one he used to work most of the time driving piles or floating sunk boats. He just parked out in the tules and began to spread out all over the place. If one were to add up just the area covered by all the boats he had floating out there it would be tens of thousands of sq. ft. He had these cat walks all over the place linking one group of boats to another. He had a small runabout that he used to commute to his car on the next island over. I think he paid something like $100.00 a month to park his boat and car at a private dock. It was well worth it because he had one of the most secluded and picturesque spots in California.

                • Wow! Great story, Shnark! I love hearing of stuff like that.

                  ANYTHING to get one off of the 25 year mortgage and 9-5 cubicle path!

                  Reminds me of this big old lifeboat that was in an empty lot next door to where I used to dock my clamboat. I had thoughts of doing something like you described with it!

                  And yes, the free boats. When i used to haul junk cars, every so often I’d calls from homeowners with an old boat in their backyard, saying “You can have it for free if you’ll just take it away”- I never fell for it though!

                  Every Monday, the street where I rented a storage yard, and on which the salvage yards and scrap place were, was always littered with abandoned boats laying on the side of the road that people couldn’t get rid of without great expense…..

                  And let’s remind Brian: Stay away from wooden boats at costs! (Unless it’s a glass-covered plywood work boat).

            • The best body/mind trick, is after being on a boat for more than a few hours, when you sit in a chair on land, you can still feel the rocking motion of the boat for several hours! I love that!

              • When you’ve been out on the open ocean for a few days looking at nothing but waves, when you get back to shore the land becomes quite liquid as well for quite some time; it’s just like an acid trip.

                • I”m a lucky landlubber in that being on rough water for a long time isn’t a big deal, it’s getting onto land and trying to eat with the windows and walls tilting up and down. Never bothered me enough to not eat though.

                  I lost some equilibrium with my thrice broken leg and occasionally have a bout of sea legs on dry land. The weird thing is when driving a big rig, it doesn’t bother a whit but will bug me sometimes in a 4 wheeler.

      • Moose, re: “Not all libertarians are interested in leaving..and that doesn’t make them inferior.” So true! Thinking that “Pizza and minigolf is a fair trade-off for the suffering. ” is what exposes one as inferior.

        • Snark, from the Romans 2000 years ago, right down to today- those who love wielding power and brutalizing their fellow man know the script: Bread and circuses. It works. Always has; always will.

          • Quite true Nunzio, and when bread and circuses doesn’t work anymore, it will be “when in Rome do as the Romans”, but what most people don’t know is that the actual quote is “when in Rome do as the vandals” because that’s what you get when bread and circuses no longer work.

      • Nunzio, re: “One person actually securing far greater liberty than we can have here these days, is worth 1000 who just acknowledge the predicament, but continue to tolerate that which they hate.” Close, but not enough to matter. That one is worth more than everyone who tolerates their enslavement because they are the one that can motivate others to free themselves.

        Every day I’m doing something to move me one more step closer to my next trip down to the Caribbean, but some days I slack off. Then I read something you’ve written and it’s like I suddenly remember that I’ve got a few other things that I need to do NOW! You have a talent for motivating others Nunzio.

        • Shnark, you and Brian are motivating me!

          Other than the handful of people I’ve known over the years who were interested in leaving, and then actually did so, I’ve been all alone in this.

          As we can see, it is not at all a popular idea- even among those who decry the tyranny of the empire.

          This discussion really is a breath of fresh air for me- and I thank Eric for putting up with us!

    • Very valid question, Skunkz. Is it not the same thing many of our neighbors asked in OH, DC and NY when we were leaving those places?

      No, there is no truly Libertarian place on earth- but you can get awfully close to it, because many small, non-industrialized places which are of no strategic or resources value to the superpowers, just don’t have the resources nor the reason to tightly monitor and control the lives of their citizens- nor can such control just be implemented overnight without massive rebellion and resistance (Which is why they use gradualism, “education” and the media, here).

      These places are of no interest to the globalists, as there is no big labor pool, and they are too far away, and not suitable for the harvesting of “human capital”- and there is no real wealth to be had.

      Pretty much any of the small remote island nations that you can name- with preference to the few which don’t even belong to the UN- places which are made up of sometimes HUNDREDS of small islands, where there is essentially no government.

      For the less adventurous: Even places which are closer; which may be on the globalists watch list, but again, do not have the physical nor governmental infrastructure in place outside of the one or two largest cities to implement the level of tyranny we have here within our lifetimes. -Those being some places in Central and South America.

      Yes, on paper, many of those places sound very socialistic- but in reality, once you get away from capitol cities, government, law-enforcement, taxes, etc. are a non-issue. They just don’t have a huge governmental infrastructure in place like first-world nations do- and the citizens of those places live like they always have, and essentially ignore (or are even completely ignorant of) the government.

      Take for example the people I have known who moved to Chile. While it doesn’t sound like the ideal Libertarian nation- it sure is 1000 steps in magnitude better than anything we can find here. On a scale where going from NY to rural KY, or OH to ME might be 2 or 3 steps of magnitude in gaining liberty.

      I really didn’t think Chile was going to work out for them- but it has- wonderfully. They say there are places between Chile and Argentina that have never even been mapped nor explored! But the people I know who went, didn’t have to go to that extreme. Things are so relaxed, that they were comfortable in some of the small cities and towns and just typical rural areas near them.

      Now there is some governmental presence in Chile (and such places) that can affect what you might want to do- especially concerning business and natural resources- but again, it’s exponentially less than what we have even in the “freest” places here- and it’s not on the level to which it is here, where they interfere with your private life and interpersonal relationships and everything you do.

      And again, the governmental infrastructure in such places is 100x less than what it is here. So yes, you would still be somewhat in avoidance mode- but on a far, far lower level than here.

      So it really depends on what you want and how much trouble you’re willing to take to find it.

      I continue to maintain that I think the problem most have with the idea of relocating to a vastly freer place, is that they just don’t want to give up the conveniences and “civilization” of the first world- even though most aspects of those things are vanishing, if not already gone already.

      A crude house and a dirt road, with a bicycle or moped would suit me just fine. A white sand beach, without acres of parking lot; without signs posted everywhere, telling you what you can and can’t do; no gocvernment employee in a booth; no cops; no cars; no rumble of traffic on an expressway a quarter of a mile away…..just natural life- that would suit me just fine. That is more civilized than anything we have here these days; and you’d be surprised- people who have not been conditioned by government schools and hollywood media, can be a lot more civilized than what one would expect.

      My neighbors back in NY who thought that KY was populated by inbred Deliverance-style hicks, ignorant farmers and Klansman, would also see any place outside of the first world as being populated by sub-human savages- and although that might be true for many parts of Africa and The Bronx- it certainly is not for a good deal of the rest of the world.

    • OK, I hate to do this to my fellow Liberty Brothers whom I respect immensely but I am compelled to be forthright in my response. The simple fact of the matter is that none of you can list a single specific place to run to. Not to mention that none of you have actually moved yourselves to that place. What does this tell us?

      To me it signals that you are proof against your own arguments. As I have repeatedly stated, there is no wrong or right answer here. It depends entirely on each and every individual’s circumstance. But it does seem to me, and I could be – and I hope I am wrong, that the runners are ridiculing us stayers. If I am wrong then I most certainly apologize. But if I am correct then I say name the exact place you are actually going to move to and within what exact time frame. Otherwise, please show us the same respect we have shown you.

      • Since we are being forthright, as I have said elswhere, I don’t want others to come to my paradise. First thing “new arrivals” want is to change things to resemble what they left.

        I won’t tell you where because I don’t want you here. Besides, what is important to you may be irrelevant to me and vise versa.

        I did move, from city to deep woods, way off radar. I will look move again if required, thus I have an outside this country arrangement. Your efforts to get others to spoon feed you suggest that the nanny state is where you belong. If that is not the case, do your own research, find the right solution and stop expecting others to hand you ” the plan”.

        To me it signals you are looking to validate your own reluctance to “go” by trying to invalidate the choices of others. You are not welcome where I am.

            • Hi Cold,

              We’re all individuals – it’s the core tenet of Libertarian morality, I’d argue. It is from this individuality that our right to decide for ourselves flows. I don’t think anyone here is knocking the path you’ve chosen; it’s just not necessarily the path for us all.

              I can only speak for myself – and my circumstances (like me myself) are unique. For one, I am a writer and speaker who has a platform; I am able to reach a lot of people and get those people to at least consider some of the ideas we discuss on this site. I consider this important. If I had a job that was was just a job, I’d probably be more inclined to just chuck it and split. But I feel obliged to do what I do and plan to keep on doing it, as long as I can do it.

              Second, as I’ve outlined before, I like where I am; the friends I have. These things are of value to me.

              Third, I have made a personal decision to stick it out, come what may. You may regard this as foolish or complacent or even cowardly. But the reasons are y own and just as valid as yours are to you.

              I agree with others here who have suggested we stop picking at people who are on our side and direct our fire at those who are not… like McSame, for instance!

              • I find it odd that folks think I am ridiculing or criticizing.

                Did you read my response to you at the top of the page?

                My posts have simply explained what I have done and anancedote about my freinds solution. Skunk voiced a view and I offered up a reply of similar tone.

                When every observation is taken as a criticism, time to consider what your subconscious might be trying to tell you.

                • I also hope that no one here is taking my zeal for expatriation as a personal criticsm or condemnation; nor as a suggestion that everyone must do what I plan to do.

                  I think those of us who are planning our escape from the gulag, just want others to be aware that there are options available, right now- if one wishes to pursue them; and that maybe at least thinking of the possibility of expatriation might be a good thing, and an option as one feels the flames getting closer and closer.

                  I’m trying to illustrate the point that while one doesn’t have to merely move laterally, from one developed tyranny to another; one also does not have to assume that everywhere else is some squalid shithole where sub-humans crap on the street.

                  In my opinion, a discussion such as this is the meat and potatoes of Libertarianism, because it is not merely about ideals and philosophies and what ‘could be’, but rather is about what one can do NOW to procure exponentially greater liberty than they have had here in our lifetimes.

                  No offense intended.
                  No offense taken!

              • Eric, yes! That psycho war pig McInsane is finally dead! Where are they burying him? Every decent person should make at least one pilgrimage there so that they can piss on that prick’s grave.

                • Took the words right out of my mouth, Skunkz! ‘cept I was thinking of something a little more solid- what with that grave already having acquired shit-hole status due to it’s new contents….. Just add to the pile!

                  Ding dong, the warmonger’s dead!
                  Which warmonger?
                  The wicked warmonger!

                  What lesson can we learn from that asshole’s life?:

                  Spend decades giving billions of dollars extorted from your fellow countrymen to the military-industrial complex, while destroying the lives of millions abroad, and you too can be dieiied as a “hero”.

          • Satellites my ass! There are parts of Mexico City that STILL haven’t even been mapped; and they’re gonna see every little place in the woods? -Assuming of course, one does not apply for an “address”, etc.

            Even if they see it, so what? What’s going to happen? An alarm’s gonna go off because there’s a lone structure somewhere?

            Forget satellites. Worry about mailmen, addresses, and local pigs and busybodies who might speculate that you’re making unapproved intoxicants- i.e. “controlled substances”.

            If these satellites are “all that”, why does Google use places for their aerial “satellite view” maps? And why are the images not in real time? (I can Google my place, and see a vehicle parked here that I sold 2 years ago…)

        • Cold Frog, I hear the same lament all the time from the locals here in Florida. They see those “damn Yanks” coming down here to escape the mess they made only to turn right around and do the same thing here.

          One of the symptoms of living in prison for some is a sense of relief because all of that worry about getting caught is over. They don’t have to worry about it anymore. People don’t like too many options because it can overload our ability to make the right choice. When the choice has been made for us, life is easy. When someone else makes the decision for us we can sit back and complain about what a terrible job they’re doing. It’s all their fault.

        • Cold Frog, I think you may have misread the purpose of my post. I am not the one ridiculing the decisions of others. Exactly the opposite. I am arguing that there is no wrong answer and that neither those who flee nor those who stay should be ridiculed.

          It does seem to me that those who advocate fleeing try to impose a Libertarian “purity” standard on those of us who choose to stay. “If you do not leave the country then you must not be a real Libertarian!” is the attitude I am hearing from some fleers. That is my only argument against those who preach fleeing. (FTR I am not a Libertarian. The only labels I put on myself are Truthist and NAPist.)

          I have had this flee or stay discussion many times. People advocate fleeing but they can rarely say exactly where we are supposed to flee to. How I wish there was a NAPland somewhere to flee to but there is not, not at this time anyway.

          I do not know where you got the idea that I am looking for someone else to “spoon feed” me a “plan”. I have already made my choice – after seriously researching both fleeing and staying. The best course of action for me and mine was to move from Ohio to Maine where my three main criteria are best matched – Weapons, Weed, and Whiteness (defined as living in a Mayberry where civilized people mind their own business). And that is exactly what I just did about a month ago.

          But I do agree with you that so often it is the case that outsiders move from the mess they created and try to reestablish the same nonsense that they fled in the first place. Assholes.

          And I want you to know that as far as I am concerned you are always welcome where I am.

      • Skunkbear, I’m not ridiculing anyone. In fact, I’m not saying anything different than what you are. People are pointing out all of these examples of government overreach, injustices, etc. and doing effectively nothing other than noting them as if they were somehow a big deal. None of these examples is a big enough deal to do anything about it.

        I’ve been to Panama, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Cozumel, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, etc.

        Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Panama are all on my short list of places to return. Nicaragua and Guatemala have some great places to live, but my plan is to live on a boat. I’ve done a fair bit of cruising on my last two sailboats. One was 26′ while the other one was 56′. The larger boat was comfortable, but a pain to maintain and keep clean while the smaller one was much more fun to cruise, but quite cramped and lacked the creature comforts. So I’m looking for the sweet spot right in between. I’m also not going to buy another sailboat for a while because 90% of the time, the wind wasn’t blowing where I wanted to go. With a boat, rent, utilities, etc. are taken care of. I’m effectively living for free. The US virgin Islands requires a $100.00 mooring fee which is good for a year. That’s my rent for one year. My diet is becoming confined to fish, some poultry occasionally, and fresh fruits and vegetables. A number of places keep those prices down. Jamaica has cheaper prices on fruits and vegetables than in the US. Staples aren’t triple the price of everything else in the Cayman Islands. All the processed crap I don’t eat anyways is triple the price here in the US. Alcohol, tobacco, perfume, chocolate, bread, corn, or any other luxury item is expensive in the Caymans, but here again, I don’t use any of that stuff.

        Panama has a few spots that I might be interested in purchasing some property, but my main focus with Panama is in banking, and perhaps acquiring citizenship. They have the easiest and most affordable path to citizenship of just about anywhere. I’m not really interested in becoming a Panamanian citizen to live there, as much as simply having a passport that doesn’t reduce me to second class status anywhere in South America.

        The Cayman Islands would be my first choice, but I don’t quite have enough for their economic citizenship program. However, I may still set up an LLC there as they are inexpensive, and perfectly legal. An international trust is also something I can implement which offers an added layer of protection; also affordable. The real attraction of the Cayman Islands is that when you purchase real estate, you actually own it. The government in the US owns you and your property; it’s really their property. You’re just taking care of it for them. It’s an asset to them; not you. If you don’t believe me, stop paying your property taxes and see what happens. This isn’t ridicule. It’s the reality. I like that once a piece of property is purchased in the Caymans the government can’t take it away from me ever. That’s a component of Libertarianism that most in the US will never experience.

        I’ve seen people forced to sell their land because it was left to them by their parents who upon their death, the transference of ownership triggered a reassessment of their property which they soon discovered was too high for them to afford the taxes. I’ve also watched as people from Marin, and Sonoma counties sold their mansions and moved to Lake county only to buy up multiple lots from poor fools and combined them into large lots for their new mansions. When enough of these liberal clowns got up there they lobbied for new roads, curbs, traffic lights, etc. and this once poor location became much more difficult for the poor to survive in. It happens all the time, but if the government can’t tax your property then it ceases to be a concern.

        Lower stress levels also puts a bit more distance between you and the grim reaper. So while taxes aren’t a sure thing anymore, death is also not much of an issue either. In the US, “death and taxes” are still certain.

        However, my next trip is going to be back to the Bahamas as I am interested in looking into the eastern Caribbean islands. So I would like to check out the Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, and the US virgin islands, as well as the BVI’s. From there I don’t know. I might also check out The Dominican Republic on the way down and perhaps Cuba as well. Jamaica is also on my radar since a buddy of mine came back raving about the place. He’s already told me that if he goes back, he’s not coming back to the US.

        My initial interest in the Caribbean was because the climate agrees with me. I can’t stand the cold anymore. Even in Florida it gets too cold for me.

        Guatemala is an especially good spot to get any kind of work done at a fraction of what it would cost anywhere. The work also gets done immediately. These are things I appreciate and value especially as I get older.

        In the US just about anyone I call to have some work done has to hit me with some shuck and jive routine. if it wasn’t so expensive, I wouldn’t care. Down south the shuck and jive doesn’t bother me at all, and it doesn’t happen half as much either.

        There are still onerous rules in Central and South America, but it is quite easy to get around them. People on tourist visas routinely cross the borders every three months to renew them for another three months. It’s worth it for them because it is really that nice down there. However, it is also quite common to simply pay someone to take the trip and have a pile of visas stamped.

        Opening up a business is much easier than finding work in a lot of these places because of the paperwork. The regulations vary from country to country, but the general idea is if you’re brining money into the country and hiring people it’s a rubber stamp and you’re in.

        I like to keep moving around so there really is no one single destination for me. They’re all looking quite a bit better than living in the US. For me it’s most of the Caribbean, and in most cases, it’s just as easy to go island hopping or move from one country to another as it is to go from one state to another in the US.

        US customs and immigration has a fasttrack system in place to expedite one’s return to the US. I forget how much it costs, but it has to be renewed annually, and it takes them at least 4 to 6 months to get the silly sticker to you, and that’s only if you’re still in the US. Coming back into the US on a sailboat requires a different location than those who come back on cruise ships, and it usually takes anywhere from 6 to 10 hours waiting in line which doesn’t include the 45 minutes to an hour spent waiting for them to process your paperwork. The fasttrack system only expedites the time they have your paperwork, and usually the time saved is only half an hour. The last time I came back to the US was primarily just to sell off my stuff, clean up my house so it’s ready to sell, and take off indefinitely. The plan is to get out of here before it gets cold around Christmas. I’m just looking for a good deal on a boat right now. It’s a buyer’s market though so if push comes to shove I’ll just get something and go.

        So unlike some, I’ve already been out checking out locations to stay; been there, done that. I’m not just dreaming about going to these places. I go there because I can, and quite often it is on a whim. This list doesn’t include any of the places I’ve been that I will never return to which is probably just as long, if not longer. There are also a few other places that might be of interest to some, but they’re not on my short list of places to return.

        • Shnark, I don’t know what it is, but I’ve had an attraction to Guatemala for many years- and it’s gonna be my first stop- if only just to satisfy my curiosity.

          There are so many places to explore in Central and South America- I could probably set up camp in Guatemala and spend the next 10 years exploring- but by then I’d be getting a little long in the tooth, and going more remote and hacking out a new place to settle might not be as easy- but then again, I might well just find a forever place in Central or South America- so it’s a bit of a gamble, but no matter what, it’ll be a positive step, and it beats sitting here in this police state and doing nothing, and being totally assimilated into their collective in the very near future.

          There’s so much out there- it would be a damn shame to just sit here and complain for the rest of my life, while never experiencing what can so easily be ours.

        • Shnarkle, I apologize if I misread your intent and had you on the “ridiculer” list. Again, I agree with most of the arguments for fleeing the country. All I am saying is that fleeing simply is not an option for many of us. And we should not be ridiculed for not having the option or if we do have the option but still choose to stay for whatever reasons.

          Let every man/woman choose what is best for them. Let us respect their choice because they alone know the situation better than anyone else.

        • Guatemala is nice; a very good choice for your first stop. I’ve got a buddy down there who bought some property right on the Rio Dulce river. A few years later he picked up a couple of hurricane damaged sailboats in Texas, fixed them up, sold the smaller one, and sailed back down there. He’s got it made in the shade. If I was him the only thing I would have done differently would be to take the boat down there and have the locals do most of the work. I met some cruisers who bought a nice sailboat and cruised around the world for ten years. Guatemala was their last stop. They had a couple of guys go through the whole boat and redo all the canvas, the decks, all of the wood. This would have cost them at least $100k in the US if they could find anyone to even do the job. Down there the entire job cost them $5k, and it was done in two weeks. Then they just cruised it up to West Palm Beach and sold it for a profit. It paid for the boat, and their whole ten year trip around the world.

          • Wow, that is just awesome, Shnark!

            An acquaintance who recently moved to FL had picked up a nice 52′ Gulfstream on Ebay for $18K -solid boat, but needed cosmetics to be worth anything. He sold it for $25K, ’cause the mast was a few feet too tall to get under the bridges where he now lives….but had he known, that could’ve been a near $100K boat with a little Guatemalan rejuvenation! (I was wishing he would’ve kept it- I was thinking it might end up being my ticket out of here!).

            He’s gotten several good boats on Ebay, sold by that “Boatangel” charity- usually solid older boats on which the cosmetics aren’t great- a lot of ’em are in FL. Old or no electronics, and no shine = a $100K boat for a few grand!

            Somebody who enjoys long trips, could get a cheap boat; do the Guatemala thing, and sail ‘er up to Nova Scotia- as they seem to get top dollar for boats up there. Helluvah trip- but if someone were into it, they could just do it once a year and make a darn good living, essentially just for cruising. (The aforementioned acquaintance had a friend in NY who just buying not-the-best powerboats in NY and NJ and running them up to Nova Scotia)

            • Yep, Nunzio, the thing is that these deals are all over the place. I just noticed a couple really good deals up on Lake Michigan. I was about to jump in my suv and head up there when I called the broker, but it was already under contract. It was easily a $50k dollar yacht, but it had a couple of small holes on the port side due to some damage from a piling. A yard would charge $10k to repair it, but I could slap some glass on that thing in a minute and while not as good as new, perfectly acceptable to 90% of the population of prospective boat buyers. The sellers were asking $12k. Those kind of deals are all over, but they don’t last long. Low balling is also a great way to pick up a good deal.

              I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been looking at a boat or property and in the process of getting ready to present a low ball offer only to have the asking price dropped down below my low ball offer.

              A lot of people look at a boat that is turning green and black, and won’t even bother to take a look inside. Many times the inside looks almost pristine or perhaps there are a few dead cockroaches and some dust, but the engines turn out to be tight and purr like a kitten. A good swipe with the pressure washer can add $20k to the price, but too many people just don’t have the energy to even dust or vacuum the floors. They don’t want to waste a second of their lives with it anymore. I know the feeling, but like you say, the Guatemala deal is a pretty serious no brainer.

              When I used to salvage boats back in California, the guy I was working for pointed out that all he was doing was fluffing these wrecks up enough to give the buyer the ability to use their imagination. We’d float up some old wood plank boat that was leaking just slightly less water than the pumps were able to handle. After shop vacuuming the sludge out of the bilge so we could see where all the big geysers were located, it was just a matter of cutting up some butt blocks to seal them up followed by a good pressure wash and some paint, maybe a little stain here and there. Really big rotten planks would require a sheet of plywood on the bottom which just required running it up on a beach on a high tide, and screwing the plywood into it. Sometimes we’d have to add a sister rib just to give the plywood something to grab onto; lipstick on a turd. On a calm day, I’d paint bottom paint between the boot stripe and the water line which made it appear to really pop like a new boat, or at least enough to give one’s imagination something to work with.

              This is nothing compared to the people who would just grab some saw dust and let it loose under the planks, or stuff the bilges with blocks of salvaged foam. Those guys would cruise around or even just while sitting in their anchorage, the boards would just fall off and sink into the mud. Boat yards pull these things out and everyone just stares in amazement at how these things can float when half the planks under the water line are gone.

              • A job like that would really appeal to me even though I have never worked on boats before. I can design whatever I want to build in my head and work out the details such as measurements on paper. I have experience with a/c and d/c electronics. I have over 2 decades of experience as a mechanic. I can weld, and as a former landlord: I have learned how to repair nearly everything in a house.

                • Perhaps my first step should be to sell everything and move to the coast so that I can learn how to operate large boats. I have operated a 16 foot bass boat on a lake before, but I imagine things are a bit different on the ocean with a much larger boat.

                  • A 16 foot powerboat on a lake is cake. I got my butt handed to me by an innocuous looking little hobie cat in Jamaica. There is a lot to learn about sailing, and the ocean!

                    • Yes, it ain’t so much the size of the boat- a bigger boat can be just as easy or easier to operate than a small one- and in the ocean, bigger is usually [not always] better….but sailing can be tricky bidness! Best to learn the basics on a small boat first, so you can see the immediate effects of everything you do.

                      I wish I had learned to sail when I was younger…don’t think I’d have the patience for it now. But the idea of being many miles from nowhere in the middle of the ocean, with nothing but the sound of the wind in yours sails, and the hull cutting through the water, that’s a freedom that we could all use! It’s probably the only place to truly be free of government.

                      Imagine sleeping out there!

                      There’s a webpage- gotta see if I can find- that lists stories of people who have crossed the oceans in very small boats, alone.

                      Reading stuff like that really puts a bee in your bonnet!

                      My first occupation was as a clam digger when I was a teenager. I had a $500 boat. Working out there on the bay by myself, back before every yutz had a jet-ski or a cigarette boat, was sheer bliss- is there any wonder why I’m a Libertarian?!

                  • OTOH, I already live very close to the Missouri River, and the Mississippi River is only a little over 100 miles away. Perhaps I can find a suitable fixer-upper craft somewhat close by which is suitable for the river and coastal Central and South America. I sure do wish that I could clone myself so that I could get more done! I can never understand why people get bored unless they are waiting in line for Uncle or corporation.

                    • Amen, Brian!

                      Bored? Where did my life go? I blinked, and it’s two-thirds gone!

                      Cool plan, Brian! From the mouth of the Mississippi at Nyawlins (New Orleans) they say you be to Guatemala in just over a week. Seems like it’d be a nice, and easy trip.

                      Then, you already have the boat, and the whole east coast of Central America is yours to explore (Imagine the glorious places one could find by boat- I’m sure there are some real paradises tucked in there!)- The Caribbean as well; and even South America, or the west coast of Central America via the Panama Canal (My grandpappy actually worked on the canal before coming to the US from Italy).

                      DAYummmmmmm! The world is yours!

                      I had never even thought of that route!

                      Boat is the way!
                      Ain’t gonna comply n’ fly!
                      Let’s see ’em drive once that stoopit wall is built! (And even now, it can be very precarious, not only because of the border Nazis, but because of the Mexican Federales propensity to rob “rich” gringos- I guess that’s whom our pigs learned from. (Notice Mexico isn’t on the list of us serious soon-to-be expats)

                      As they say in the vernacular,: Brian, you da man!!!!!

                    • PS. Brian,

                      Another option with your Mississippi plan could be:

                      You only need a small piece of crap boat to get down the Mississ.

                      A SMALL powerboat with a SMALL outboard might be the ticket- something that wouldn’t go much faster than a sailboat, but which would be easier to navigate within the confines of the river, ’cause the wind is generally NOT going to be blowing in the direction that you want to go- and it’s hard to tack in a river (Prevailing wind pretty much all south of you is from the S./SW.

                      Then get a seaworthy sailboat down at the Gulf- where there are a lot more of them- ’cause I’m thinking that such are probably in short supply in MO. which would equal very limited choices and high prices.

                    • PS. #2:
                      Brian, in a lot of places, you can get old powerboats with solid, fiberglass hulls, with no motor, and for free, and the owners’ll thank you for taking them, away!

                      Get one, and a very small outboard -like a 5 or 10 HP- just enough to navigate and ride down the river while sipping gas- a few portable gas tanks, and you have a cheap ride…err…uhh…float. 🙂

      • Aww, now Skunkz? It’s “Escapees vs. hiders“.

        Skunkz, there is a vast world out there. You have to weigh exactly how much Libertarianism you’re looking for vs. the comforts and conveniences you’re willing to give up; Immigration requirements which may be specific to an individual; climate; culture (i.e. come would be fine in a Muslim world… Me? As a strict Christian who observes the 7th-day Sabbath and keeps kosher, etc. I’d either be killed under their blasphemy laws, or mistaken for a Jew!); Economics, etc. It’s not as if someone can just name one place, and it’d work for you- any more so than is choosing a different state and county to live in here.

        But the thing is: In MOST of this world, you can live with much less intrusive government, and much more freedom in your daily life, than is possible here. Even many Europeans now come here, and say “How do you live like that?!”- THEY are even horrified at the level of insane tyranny that we accept.

        And also, the specific part of a country one chooses to go to can make a huge difference. Going to Guatemala? There’s a big difference between Guatemala City vs. Antigua vs. the rural countryside vs. the coast vs. the interior…. just as there is a huge difference between Detroit and Plugged Butte, Montana, or Florida and Kansas.

        I have known people who have gone to:
        Chile.
        Guatemala.
        Honduras.
        Panama.
        Thailand.
        Taiwan(Yuck!)
        Singapore(My cousin. Might as well stay here! In fact, better off here, unless you have a lot of money and are going for financial reasons).

        The thing is, MANY places offer MUCH more freedom than we have here. It’s just a question of HOW MUCH freedom you want, and the trouble you are willing to go through to find it. I could see myself living in some of the Central American countries at least for a while- maybe even permanently, now that I’m an old fart- or at least using one as a jumping off point. I’d really like to experience it, especially after the positive reports from the people I’ve known who have already moved there.

        And I would never recommend a place to others unless I actually lived there first- because what you hear from others, and see on paper, or see in a video, even after years of looking, is NOTHING compared to even a quick personal glance from an actual street, and a even a two observation of the locals.

        You can get a rough idea remotely- and see how many boxes a certain place might check; and even eliminate places from afar….but you HAVE to see it and experience it in person to really even get a halfway true picture.

        • Nunz, “Escapees v Hiders” is a good way to put it too.

          As I have stated many times before you – and others – make great points and I do not necessarily disagree with them. All I am saying is that escaping is not a universal option. Some of us think moving to another state is a better option while others think staying right where they are is also another option. My complaint is that some Escapees posting here seem to be ridiculing us Hiders because we do not follow the Escapee option. That is the only thing I disagree with from Escapees. We are Brothers in Liberty so there is no need for infighting.

          • Skunkz, Absolutely, my bruddah!

            I think we’re all just trying to make some important points; and it’s easy, especially when dealing with a subject that does not fit within the standard “script” that we are used to hearing, to start taking things personally. But if anything, that just shows that the new ideas are being digested. As the Canukistanians say, “It’s all good”.

            And like I’ve said several times here, something as huge and drastic as expatriation has to be something that one goes into because it is in their heart and mind- not because they were convinced by some guy on the interwebz.

            If anyone were to attempt it with it being a part of who they are; without a yearning to be freer; it just wouldn’t work, and they’d either quickly give up, or be miserable.

            All I’m trying to do is to bring certain realities to light- such as the reality that the model of government which we may have fled from in one locale within this country, is in the process of being replicated everywhere else across the country, and soon there will be no escape. It may be going on on a smaller scale in the dusty corners which you and I have sought out, but it is going on- and you can see it every day in your local paper or on your local forum.

            What people choose to do with the info they have, is just like what they choose to do with any other sphere of life- Some want to do something, but can’t (I wanted to get out of NY long before I did, and would have been the better for it, but I couldn’t; I would have been out of this country long ago too…but couldn’t…); some just plain don’t want to; some see a different scenario for the future; some stick their heads in the sand and hope it’ll be O-K, like the Germans- but just like Libertarianism itself, it’s all about choosing your own course of action or inaction, and reaping the consequences or rewards of those choices- nobody’s insisting that it must be one way, and that all should do as they are doing- but to at least get others- especially our fellow freedom-seekers, to at least think of these things, and to dispell the myth that there is “nowhere to go”. (I’m never surprised when encountering that myth among statists- but I was surprised to see it so in evidence here!).

            Discussions such as this often spark a person or two to action in their own lives- and if a soul or two can gain liberty, right now, and have a better life- actually doing something positive to actually be more able to live the ideals which we preach, that sure beats just chronicling our ever-growing enslavement and increasing the chorus of complainers slightly. [NOT in any way a reference to Eric!!!! Just a general observation of the state of current Libertarianism, which although possessing true ideology, offers no solution for the actual practice of that ideology).

            • Nunzio, I think it’s not just the “nowhere to go” mentality that is so troubling, but the idea that somehow raising awareness of all of these constraints being placed upon our liberties takes the vast majority of people straight to “there’s nowhere to go”. There’s this disturbing sense of hopeless resignation that seems to pervade those who bring up these issues. I think that’s where the resentment stems from, not from those who are making plans and taking action to leave. But as you say, “chronicling our ever-growing enslavement and increasing the chorus of complainers slightly.” is no way to go through life, and one would think Libertarians would know this. However, I can see how this begins to look like people talking about the rapture getting ready to leave so naturally people are going to get ticked off being cast into the “left behind” crowd.

              The way I see it there are three paths to take. 1. Leave. 2.Hunker down, and 3. Do some serious networking, develop and maintain a strong community of like minded to help each other through the mess that we all see heading towards us.

              I thought I was far enough away from all that nonsense, but even out here in the sticks, the local government is talking about slapping meters on our well pumps to tax the water we pump up on our own property. That’s the kind of stuff that lights a fire underneath me to fly out of here and never look back.

              • Shnark, it’s interesting.

                We proffer a real solution- a positive action that can be taken by many if they so choose.

                Questions and objections are raised about that solution- which is perfectly natural and fine.

                Answers to those questions and objections are posited, in detail.

                We are accused of wanting to force everyone to implement the solution, and of ridiculing those who aren’t on-board with the idea, whereas our responses have just answers and explanations in response to their questions and objections.

                I don’t take it personally; I think it’s just a conditioned response, evoked by hearing something which one knows to be reality, but may not be quite ready to admit- similar to when someone who may’ve been patriotic comes to accept Libertarianism, and then has a hard time admitting that “the troops” are nothing but a bunch of murderous mercenaries. Such may even resist Libertarianism entirely because of their unwillingness to face the unpleasant facts, and what ramifications doing so might have in their lives.

                It’s just odd, because of all places, you would think that the idea of expatriation and the knowledge that viable places do exist, would be most welcome among those who admit and loudly acknowledge the demise of liberty here- even if they can’t or simply don’t choose to implement the proffered solution ib their own lives.
                _________
                Wow…..now the state proclaims itself the owner of all water in the ground and wants to tax us for it…
                Similar to some of the western states out-lawing rainwater collection (!!)….. Yes, people have actually gone to jail; been fined, and have been taken to court for collecting rainwater in a barrel on their own property.

                This is the level of tyranny we face here, and just like all of the other tyrannies, if it happens not to be at one’s door yet, it will be next year or the year after.

                There is NOTHING that escapes their control, and they are making it so that NO ONE can avoid compliance- you either live as they say, or you don’t live.

                There is NO excape within- just the gaining of a little more time for now, until every locale has fully implemented the full bag of tricks.

                This is the reality that should be foremost in the mind of every Libertarian, because such things are the most present threat to our day to day lives, even on our “own”(ha-ha) property, and sing the prasies of Austrian economics, as fine as it may be; or adding a few sheep to the fold, is not going to do squat to stave-off the tyranny that is at our very doors.

                The only options are:

                Extricate one’s self.
                Die in vain.
                Live as a slave under quickly decaying conditions.

                • Well, most of us are pretty well aware of the reality. But I like where I am. Lots of pizza and minigolf and yuppies to piss off. Somebody’s gotta stay behind to piss off the yuppies. Pizza and minigolf is a fair trade-off for the suffering.

                  And I get having a discussion on it but in general people complaining don’t expect solutions. They wanna be heard. Through that validation they overcome their anxieties and can think a little more clearly about how to better their own situations over time. Only comes off as patronizing to respond by prompting them to take action over it. Folks on these threads are looking to discuss ways to hack their increasingly unbearable time here. Not all libertarians are interested in leaving..and that doesn’t make them inferior.

                  • Very true words, Mr. Moose!

                    I hope that I don’t come off as painting others as inferior- if I do, I’ll get a better brand of paint.

                    Any of my words which may appear to be doing so, are really only intended to try and make others confront the reality of the situation before us.

                    We are, for all intents and purposes, in Nazi Germany. Many there were having this very discussion. Those who chose to stay did not necessarily die; they just came to live in fear; see the destruction of much of their life’s work; and live out there lives under a tyranny that may’ve been less than that of the Third Reich’s at Hitler’s peak- but still egregious.

                    That, and just my own musings and observations, shared, instead of kept to myself.

                    If it benefits one soul, it’s worth it. One person actually securing far greater liberty than we can have here these days, is worth 1000 who just acknowledge the predicament, but continue to tolerate that which they hate.

                    • The hope is that with sites like this one, well-run libertarian organizations challenging the courts, and the increasingly unavoidable video evidence of the government’s crimes against its citizens.. perhaps enough of the public will realize it’s time to get mad (not just Trump buttmad), time to stand up and fight for their own freedoms, for their stupid yuppie spawn’s freedoms. That’s what we’re sticking around for.

                    • Hi Moose,

                      I may be delusional – my ex thought so! – but I feel that progress is being made. Note the upwelling of contempt for McStain. The court media has been trying to present the usual hagiographic Dear Leader Departed story… but it’s not selling. McStain’s corpse would, I think, be strung up by its feet and hung from a lamp post, Mussolini-style, were it not for the cordon of guards protecting it.

                    • I mean, I shared your mccain article in light of the dumb flag whining on my news feed, and someone who I never expected to like it, liked it. Someone who is actually charismatic and capable of influencing positive change in their local community and beyond. I feel like that counts for something.

                    • It’s a nice sentiment, Moose- but it just isn’t going to happen.

                      You can look back on all of recorded history- 5000 years- and the world has only gone in one direction- and that is AWAY from freedom.

                      We once had a good deal more freedom in this country than we have now, but the average American HATES that freedom.

                      The forces at work today, especially: Generations of public schooling; generations brought up on Hollywood propaganda/media; people being drugged from childhood with powerful mind and emotion-altering drugs….

                      We can’t even hold a candle compared to the number of socialists today in America- much less the 60 million who willingly voted for Jezebel Clinton, and the 60 million who voted for Donald The Dud.

                      You really think a tiny handful of Libertarians can make a difference in our lifetime, or before the system collapses? And when the system does collapse, it will be replaced by a more tyrannical one, because that is the nature of people- the violent and immoral use power to take advantage of those same traits in others.

                      A few observant men of the past who were students of history, spelled it out. They observed the same pattern time and again down through time and across the wold:

                      Anarchy ->Minarchy->Republic->Democracy->Societal & economic breakdown ->Totalitarianism.

                      The number of Libertarians in this country will never even equal the number of people on Uncle’s payroll…

                      tl;dr version: We’re not going to change human nature.

                    • Eric, you are delusional! 🙂

                      Remember, the media is a stage show, designed to elicit emotions and certain actions- and is NOT representative of reality.

                      Talk to those around you, or go to the Topix forum for the larger town in your area, and see what the average real person is saying.

                      They all love the warmongering insane prick, almost without exception.

                      They buy-up this “hero” BS, and if nothing else, love the prick because he was a mercenary killer.

                      Any staged BS to the contrary which I assume the media is displaying, is staged just to create angst and outrage- much like a false-flag event is used to elicit patriotism.

                      Funny, I had planned to make my opening comment on here today something like: “I can’t wait to leave, just so I can get away from EVERYBODY fawning over this dead bastard’s corpse!”.

                • Not all of us want to leave. Not all of us believe that staying “till death” is dying in vain. Strength comes in numbers, and the PTB have numbers of dollars and that controls the masses, for now. I believe stnding my ground is worth suffering and possibly dying for, but I’m not looking for martyrdom, so I’m not going to do it in silence, by any means. Without numbers of dollars, all we can count on is numbers of bodies to resist the bullying and extortion, but that requires waking people up to the threat that currently exists. Birds of a feather flock together here, but change that is needed will require greater numbers of bodies. I know it seems like a mass of like-minded complainers that don’t act, but I am willing to wait for the opportunity and the means to act in the manner and cause I support, which encompasses more than just my personal comfort. I don’t fault those that choose to protect themselves first, but that won’t staunch the tyrants, it just delays them getting to wherever one might run off to avoid conflict. The Virginia State motto is Sic Sempre Tyrannus, Thus Always to Tyrants (meaning death) but few people even honor that anymore. I would like to see those words have power and make tyrants bleed, as my forebears did. Will I get the opportunity, I’m willing to wait.

                  • gtc, I fully accept that not all can leave, or even want to leave. I don’t recall ever having said “All MUST leave!”.

                    But don’t kid yourself- or try and kid me.

                    WHEN are you going to stand that ground? Hmmm?

                    When Occifer Porkfellow pulls you over and orders you around?

                    When the property tax bill comes?

                    When they take more of your property to widen the road?

                    When you get an Obammycare bill in 2 years, after the mandate is reinstated, and they threaten to slap a lien on your property?

                    Nothing personal; I consider you a great guy- but why is it, that those who are always saying that they will stand their ground, haven’t done it thus far?

                    And it is dying in vain, because no one even remembers the names of the past victims who have stood their ground; most have never even heard their story, and/or would think of them as “criminals” rather than freedom-seeking martyrs.

                    Sorry, but I do not understand why anyone would willingly give up their life just to stay in the empire which is depriving them of freedom and which they admit will likely ultimately kill them.

                    You can’t go, or don’t want to go, fine. I get it. But don’t try and rationalize your choice, because doing so is basically an admission that that choice is not a good one.

                    • Lol, I’ll be the first to admit I have made many bad choices, so what is one more, for the chance to do something different, eh? I’m not suicidal, but I take risks, more than most, but far less than others. I am simply more interested in how I live, and not so much whether, or for how long, that’s all.

                    • gtc:
                      ” I am simply more interested in how I live, and not so much whether, or for how long, ”

                      Ha! That’s my exact thinking too. Funny that we should both be seeking by pursuing diametrically opposite courses.

                      Life royally sucked in NY. By getting out of there, I have been able to thoroughly enjoy the last 17 years- they’ve been some of the best of my life. I want that to continue- but as we can see, everywhere in the US is morphing into CA./NY., and so are the people. The young’uns here have mostly even lost their accents.

                      I want the quality of my life to continue to be like what I’ve made it here, and not to do the NY thing all over again, and waste my days complaining and being mad/miserable, and being prevented from doing what I want to do, while the pols figure out that they can steal more of our money, just like they do in the other commie states.

                    • I know brother, that’s part of being a non-conformist. We share virtually the same principles, but we just have different ways of applying them in good conscience. I’m all for starting my own country, and would do it gladly somewhere in this hemisphere if I had the resources, lol!

                    • My older sister calls me a hermit. I have to remind her that I am just a king without a country, or subjects, for that matter.Then I get the “what are you, some kind of megalomaniac narcissist?” crap from her….I think she is either jealous that she hasn’t considered it herself, or hiding the fact that she has….she is definitely as alpha as I am, if not more!

                    • Gtc, you’re singing my song, buddy!

                      Isn’t that the very essence of libertarianism? To each be our own kings over what is ours? Our own little dominion. Our own property; our own families, or just our own lives; to be free to do what we consider to be right or best..or (for some) to do what may not be the best, but is desirable to them. All while maintaining the right of our neighbor to do the same.

                      That is becoming impossible here, because all breeds of authoritarian-collectivists want to overthrow all of us little kings for collective ones of their choosing [or so they think], and they don’t respect what is our vs. what is theirs; they think everything is theirs- if not in title, at least via control/disposition.

                      They don’t like hermits like us, because their system and their wealth is built upon the backs of the participation of slaves.

                      We who choose not to participate in their collective plantation are of no value to them. They want to overthrow our dominions because as long as we can live successfully within those dominions, we need not be subjects of theirs who are dependent on scraps from their tables which we have furnished.

                      The history of this country over the last 200 years has been the history of the destruction that personal sovereignty; the destruction of the many little independent kings by the emperor.

                      The emperor has managed to stamp most of them out already and make vassels of them and their descendants. We are the only ones left- a tiny minority- and as such, their efforts can now be easily concentrated upon us, without all of the vassals ever even noticing or caring- for if they should notice, they would just say “Who does he think HE is?! Why should he be different than us, and not have to pick the cotton and serve Massa, and pay Massa for all he does for us?! If I can’t be free, neither can you!”.

                      Thing is, gtc, just being left alone, look what we can do. Life can be so simple, so easy, so beautiful. We’ve figured it out, and can run paradisical kingdoms, until Nimrod comes along and wages war.

                      Too many Nimrods here these days…. 🙂

    • Nunzio, re: wooden boats. In general I tend to stay away from wood plank boats, but so do most people in the US so when someone wants to sell one and can’t, they can be had for a song. Plank boats aren’t really that bad of a deal if you keep up with the maintenance. I’ve seen some guys take plaster and seal them up, or “poor man’s fiberglass” which when done right should keep the planks from “sawing”, and works extremely well with plywood. It’s a better deal than using marine grade plywood in my opinion. So it’s a better hull for less money. Wood is also better than steel in a salt water/air environment.

      Everybody prefers fiberglass until you have a breach in your hull, then you basically have to haul the thing out before you can do much in the way of repairs, and fiberglass materials have a shelf life.

      Ferro cement also has a bad rap because so many duds were constructed in DIY ers back yards back in the 60’s and 70’s, but most of those are long gone; scuttled to form some reef somewhere, or buried in some canyon. The rest are well built, and are THE most difficult boat to get rid of because they’re so tough. Boat yards are screwed when a ferro cement comes in and the owner splits. If they can’t get permission to scuttle the boat, then they have to haul it somewhere, or get a wrecking ball in there to knock it to pieces. It’s just a huge hassle to get rid of them.

      Basically I go for the cheapest thing I can find, I rarely have a problem. If it sinks, I’m not out much, and I usually end up selling it for more than I paid for it; which is VERY rare.

      The nice thing is that you can get around and as you’re traveling, you will inevitably end up seeing better boats for sale which you can grab, and just abandon or let the first one go cheap. Abandoning boats isn’t as difficult as some might think. If it was as difficult, there wouldn’t be so many abandoned boats littering our waterways. Different states have different regulations. California tags abandoned boats, and on day 100, the boat is fair game for anyone who wants it. Florida will cite and fine anyone who abandons a boat, and if someone else comes along to grab it after 100 days, then the state will apply the fines to them. Most people just simply remove their boat ID number and state tags etc. and set them adrift.

      The best thing to do is to walk marinas and boat yards, inquire about boats that have been sitting for years. Keep your eyes peeled for boats sitting in someone’s yard or driveway. Plans change and people will walk around those elephants for years pretending that they’re not there. The best way is to ask the woman of the house, half the time they’ll start rummaging through their files looking for the paperwork while you write them a check; they don’t even care if it bounces.

      It’s funny, but young women tend to like lounging on the sundeck of boats while older wives are like cats; they hate the water.

      • Most marians won’t even let you dock a wooden anymore. Call around asking if they have dockspace, first thing they say, is “How old is the boat and what’s it made of?”.

        I like wood. Man, some of those old wooden Chris Crafts and Bertrams and such…wow! But darn- if they weren’t kept-up meticulously….they’re done. And caulking those wooden hulls…yikes!

        I like old school- but even I can appreciate fiberglass. And really, when do you see a fiberglass hull breached, unless it’s run into something? And generally, if it hits something hard enough to break the fiberglass, it would have done just as much or more damage to wood.

        • Nunzio, Caulking wood plank boats is nothing in comparison to replacing the cotton, or replacing a plank, and refastening. Here again, this is where it pays to know what to look for in a wood plank boat. You can only refasten a plank so many times before you need to replace the planks. Bending and fitting those things is a serious bitch which is why so many people just cover it with ferro cement, ferra-lite, sea flex, poor man’s fiberglass, etc. They call it “covering the sin”.

          Yes, splintered fiberglass looks about the same as splintered wood. Although the fiberglass today is way thinner than the hand laid hulls built 40- 50 years ago. That’s the situation where ferro cement really shines. The likelihood of a ferro cement boat being breached is slim to none, and if one is breached, it’s stupid simple to repair right out in the middle of the ocean, if you can keep your cement dry until you need it. Ferro cement are really underrated diamonds, although not as much as they used to be when there were so many duds floating around or perpetually stranded in boat yards . They’re tough, they stay cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Blistering is usually minimal to non existent.

          I looked at one about ten years ago in South San Francisco. The original owner had it designed and commissioned and spared no expense in having it built by experts. The guy spent something like $400k, and after splashing it, he then decided to do some more work on it which isn’t uncommon. Then he sold it to someone for around $250k, and that guy worked on it for a few years and poured another couple hundred thousand into it until his untimely death at which point his family had to get rid of his dream. They sold it for somewhere around $100k to some guy who motored it down from Canada to San Jose where it sat in a marina for the next ten years while he poured more money into it, but eventually realized that his dream wasn’t what he expected so he sold it to some guy for $25k and that guy moved it to this marina in South San Francisco. The masts, rigging, sails, booms etc. were all essentially brand new. The hull was perfect. The ford lehmen diesel was barely broken in, and the fuel tanks had 2,000 gallons of diesel in them which at that time was worth about $6 or 7 thousand dollars. The guy was asking $12k, but while I was digging around in the bilges he offered to sell it for $8k I could have parted it out and probably doubled my money.

          My guess is that some family is living on it now getting more enjoyment out of it than all of the previous owners combined. I see this kind of thing all the time. Half a dozen people pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into a boat or home and in the end some poor family from San Salvador ends up living in it for free.

          • Shnark, ya know, I’ve never even seen a ferro-cement boat in real life! They’ve always intrigued me though. The one you described….WHOA! If i came across a deal like that….I would have to go for it, even if I weren’t in the market for it! Darn!! The possibilities would be endless!

            I thought my friend’s 52′ Gulfstar was a pretty good deal for $18K…but darn!!!!! (The motor- a little Perkins diesel- just needed a starter….few tiny odds and ends, and as long as you weren’t looking for yacht-quality shiny decks and a pristine interior, she was ready to sail- good sails and rigging and all…. (It had had some water over the sole in the past).

            You could go just about anywhere in the freakin’ world with that boat, and live quite comfortably on it. He had bought it basically just to live on in FL when he’d go down there, and for local jaunts- but he ended up moving to FL full-time and buying a [not ferro] cement house…..

            I could see myself having that boat. In my opinion, it was the perfect size for people like us- and seemed to already be set-up for single-handed sailing.

            Ha! Found some pics of it!
            https://imgur.com/a/f146peq

            Interior looked plenty good enough for me! Damn, I liked that boat!

  4. “Whatchya gonna do?”

    I don’t know, Nunzie. What I’m not gonna do is emigrate outside the US. I’ve moved around a little, to Texas in the ’80s and up and down the east, but I don’t consider leaving the US anymore. Anyway, that’s what I was saying to eric earlier, and it had nothing to do with moving from one state to another. Somehow, you got the idea that I was opposed to moving from someplace like NYC to rural TN or something.

    • Oh, nay, nay, Ed. If anything, I’m trying to point out how many will do as I have done, and move to another place in the US to escape tyranny, but then balk at the idea of leaving the US when there is nowhere left to go within. I can not see the logic in such a contradiction. So it’s O-K to flee, as long as it’s within the borders of the US, but not to somewhere else?

      I can only conclude that those who maintain such a position, are content to tolerate the tyranny, and the many nefarious things done in their name by the state, which their money paid for, in exchange for the conveniences and privileges we’ve become accustomed to- just like that damn fool author McAdams, who writes articles decrying the Naziism of airports and yet continues to fly commercially.

      I stopped flying 30 years ago, because I drew the line at the abuse of our rights THEN. There was no need to wait for it to get to the absurd level it is at today. I accepted the idea that I’d be getting out of here one day….also c.30 years ago.

      And here we are today: Some states already going door to door to confiscate guns (FL after Parkland; CT after the “assault rifle” ban. NJ recently). States going door to door/searching houses for suspects, without a warrant/enforcing “lockdowns” (WI; ID, CA, BEFORE MA did so for the Boston Moron-a-thon…).

      Yeah, some Germans stayed too and weathered the storm- and look where they are today…..a police state that’s worse than ours.

      I’m sorry, but I just don’t “get” it. Why even speak of liberty, if one is willing to tolerate tyranny? It’s not as though one has no options.

      • I know you don’t get it. You’re intent on not getting it. WTF do you want everybody commenting online to do, anyway? Do you want them to STFU about liberty unless they are willing to “practice consistency of thought” as the clodpated Randian objectivists said?

        Daniel McAdams isn’t a damn fool. If he has to fly for business purposes, he still has the right to comment on TSA thuggery. I doubt it matters much to him if it triggers you into writing another 1,000+ word comment.

        I tried to clarify what I was saying, though I knew in advance that you would just take off on another tangent. I won’t bother any more.

        • LOL, Ed. Who’s the one getting worked-up here? I couldn’t care less what anyone else does in their own life, or what they advocate- but some seem to take offense at what I advocate, and the realities and inconsistencies it may expose.

      • Hey Nunzio, it’s funny you should mention cutting grass because I just spent the last few weeks hauling mulch from the dump to my front yard. I’m covering my entire front yard and planting shrubs because I don’t feel like paying someone to mow it while I’m gone for the winter. The backyard is a jungle and no one can even see it. I’ve got a friend who is considering staying at my place while I’m gone, but if he decides on something else, you could hang out here, and even mow the back yard if that’s something you enjoy doing. The grass, weeds, etc. are about 5 to 7 feet high. A machete might be more effective.

        • Shnark, sounds like I’d have to bring my tractor and bush hog instead of the mower!

          Yeah, I love mowing. Every year I’ve been increasing the size of the area I mow off as a ‘lawn”- I’m up to about 7 acres now…. I really got gypped this year! Waited through the winter, eagerly, for mowing season- but the spring and first half of summer was unusually dry- so I’ve only had to mow 6 times so far this season (Normally, it’d be 15 or 16 times by now!!!).

          Drive my mower around for 3 hours, listening to music on the MP3 player…I’ll tell ya, there’s nothing better!

  5. Nicked this story from Lew Rockwell’s Blog.

    We have talked about about leaving or staying in these comments…but the fact is, if we were half the men we were 260 some odd years ago, there wouldn’t be any question about having to run away and leave everything behind, OR silently suffer in tyranny.

    These fuckers would have been strung up.

    “My Daughter Molested by TSA; Me Nearly Arrested for Objecting”

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/my-daughter-molested-me-nearly-arrested/#more-688616

    Daniel McAdams

    As I begin writing this, my innocent 13 year old little girl is in tears sitting in the terminal at Reagan International Airport. Somewhere back at the TSA checkpoint there is a middle aged woman who has just, in clear view of law enforcement, committed a sexual crime against her, a minor child. I have it all on film.

    I nearly went to jail. The TSA agent continues her crime spree.

    Returning from the Ron Paul Institute’s Washington conference, where my family all pitched in to make the event possible, we found ourselves at the Transportation Security Administration checkpoint.

    To this point in our occasional travels, my wife had been able to accompany our two young daughters through the metal detector, while my teenaged son and I had been forced to undergo a “pat-down” because we refused to submit to the scanner. All of a sudden this time was different. An aggressive TSA officer barked that my 13 year old girl could not accompany her mother and younger sister through the metal detector, but rather would have to submit to a “pat-down.”

    Meanwhile my 10 year old daughter had already been sent through the detector and was far out of our sight on the other side of the machine. That made me anxious, as it would any parent.

    They would not allow my wife through to accompany the 10 year old, insisting she had “opted out” and must wait for “female assist.” She had done no such thing. We had no idea where our 10 year old was, no idea where our possessions were, and no one would let my wife through to re-join her. It was obvious retaliation for our refusal to go through their machine.

    I strongly objected to the separation of my family. I was told to not raise my voice.

    Finally they allowed my wife through the detector to join our 10 year old. Then they ushered my son, my 13 year old daughter, and me to undergo a “pat down.”

    I watched in agitation as a woman put on gloves and began to grab my young daughter’s genitals. I yelled at my wife to catch it all on the iPhone and she did.

    As Agent Cohen started my own pat-down it was clear he was agitated. He did not like that we dared object to their demand for total submission. He began his run across my genitals and I turned my head to watch the sick scene of my 13 year old being assaulted. BAM! Agent Cohen’s hand banged my genitals and I nearly doubled over. “What a sick way to make a living,” I commented.

    That was all it took for Agent Cohen. He was immediately on his radio calling for the police. I asked him the reason for calling the police. “Interfering with an investigation by moving during a pat-down,” he answered. I was to be arrested because I happened to move as he jabbed me in the groin!

    I dared to express displeasure over being subject to his sexual assault. For that reason I “deserved” to be arrested.

    Fortunately the Washington Metro Police Authority officer was cool and calm. He did not seem surprised at our situation at the hands of an extremely aggressive TSA. He asked our side of the story and then asked whether I required medical attention. I declined medical attention but remain in pain. He then encouraged us to discuss the matter with a TSA supervisor, which we agreed to do.

    The TSA supervisor was a man of I would estimate 60 years. He first spoke to Agent Cohen, who lied that my wife had “opted out” and that was why she was forced to separate from our 10 year old.

    The supervisor then turned to me and explained that once a child turns 13 that child is considered an adult and thus subject to a full body pat-down if the child refuses to go through the scanner.

    I threw him off guard, asking him, “are you a father?” I repeated the question.

    “I am a grandfather,” he replied.

    “How would you feel if your young daughter or grand-daughter was forced to submit to a woman grabbing her genitals?”

    His face darkened: “I wouldn’t like it; I don’t like it at all.”

    “It’s sick what our country has become,” I added.

    “It sure is,” he agreed. “But there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s policy.”

    I know some who will read this will smugly scoff that I should not fly at all. But is that a solution? We go around the world bombing for “peace and democracy,” while at home middle aged women sexually assault little girls in plain sight “for our own good.” To “keep us safe.” But hey, it’s “just policy.”

    My daughter has stopped crying now. But like all crime victims, that does not mean the pain is over.

    • So McAdams was willing to put his wife and daughter through a cancerbooth repeatedly in the past but was upset about some blueglove dyke touching his daughter?

      Want to bet the entire family will be flying again real soon? Radiation or molestation won’t stop them, he will just bitch about it and do nothing more, like the rest of the herd. Convenience of flying trumps dignity and health for the consumption class……. I would bet on it.

      What you allow will continue…..

    • I don’t know what is sicker: What the TSA does….or that people like the author above, who claim to appreciate freedom, would willingly subject themselves and their FAMILIES to such abuse for the sake of a little convenience.

      THAT illustrates what a mess this country is, and why there will be no rebellion; no one to stand with those who would be willing to “fight”; and why leaving is the only option- because if the above is what liberty-minded people do, what can we conclude about the other 300 million who don’t even raise an eyebrow, and feel that they are being “kept safe”?

      This country is a dysfunctional mess- and it’s not just the government. If it were just the government, staying could be an option, because then it would be easy to out-number them. But instead, it is even more so the people who wave their flags, and who venerate that government and who sacrifice their children to it.

      There’s no overcoming 300 million supporters in a place and time where even those who claim to be advocates of liberty will give up theirs and that of their family’s for so little a thing as to save a few hours time.

      The TSA groping the girl.
      The parents giving up their liberty for a little convenience.
      And the others in the airport who probably murmured that the line was being held up, rather than banding together and administering justice.

      Welcome to the world’s biggest police state. It only gets worse. It can’t be fixed, any more so than ancient Rome. Stay and suffer for absolutely no benefit…or escape and continue to enjoy a peaceful life.

      I wont even read articles like the above anymore. What is the point? This has been going on for how long? Yet the author willingly walks right into it, and then acts surprised, so now feels compelled to whine and complain to an audience- which will accomplish absolutely nothing, because most members of that audience will also keep on walking right into it.

      • I wonder where the “line” is for the flying public. They’re ok with assuming the “I surrender” posture in the full-body scanners. They’re ok with occasionally being groped (or watching their loved ones be groped) by cretins who are probably under qualified for employment at Burger King. Would they submit to body cavity searches? Would *that* be the line?

        • No.

          I have watched everyone, and I do mean everyone I know, who has said “I won’t put up with X”, cave at the first hint that they might suffer a cocequence for resisting. All of them.

          When I heard a freind tell of how upset he was that his wife was fondled by a TSA goon, my only questions were “and what did you do about it?” and “so what will you do in the future”.

          After much evasion and rationalization, the same answer to both, “nothing”. At least he was eventually, grudgingly honest.

  6. Paraphrasing but I think capturing the slave sentiment expressed here.

    “well, it is a cage, but at least it is still mostly gilded…..”,”The grass is still greener here”, “There be dragons there”

    “if they do X, that is my line in the sand”….(they do X)….. denial, rationalization, inaction, capitulation……..repeat…. “OK, but I REALLY mean it this time…..”

    TPTB know this is the same behavior for 95% of the herd and that the cowformers (cowardly, conformer portmanteau) will be flying monkeys to the 5%.

    BTW, I want you all to stay where you are. My bit of semi-sane-paradise does not need immigration (see what California pricks are doing/did to Texas). Hold the line to the bitter end for me as it will delay them getting around to F’ing up things here. Thanks in advance.

    • EXACTLY, Cold Frog!

      That is why they use gradualism- because it works so well- even on people who should know better, and who are supposed to care enough not to be ensnared by it. Instead of just imposing odious things on us all at once, they do it little by little….the frog in the pot (Ah! Is that why you’re a cold frog? You never stayed around to let them slowly turn up that water on you!)

      “I just won’t comply!”
      “Oh…I won’t be able to drive now; or I’ll lose my property; or have to pay X? Well, then I’ll have to comply with just this, but only because….” -and it never ends, unless you remove yourself from their jurisdiction.

      We all know this. Many on here have already left more tyrannical cities and states for freer states and rural areas- ibcluding myself. And although I love it where I am, and am having truly the best ywears of my life, I see the prison state encroaching more and more every day, building a replica of the very same tyranny that exists in the place which I left.

      Some accuse would-be expats like myself of fearing what *may* come- but that’s not even the main issue. We’re already in the world’s biggest police state- RIGHT NOW, TODAY- and THAT is a problem for me- and I had assumed that most other Libertarians/Anarchists (or anyone who loves liberty) would feel the same.

      Then on top of that, we also have what is coming- and now they suddenly act as though what’s coming may not actually come; or may not affect them personally- even though most of the articles on this website are about those very things; and most of the comments on those articles are lamenting those things.

      Now, I certainly wouldn’t want to try and convince anyone to do anything they’re not comfortable with, because one’s heart and soul truly needs to be in such an endeavor, or it’ll never produce positive results- but I’m just kind of incredulous that more people here aren’t into it. I’ve known people who aren’t even Libertarians, who refused to move the line in the sand back any further even a decade or more ago, and high-tailed it out of here.

      Hmmm…. Libertarianism with no teeth.

      • Nunzio, the thing is that people are comfortable, and the government knows this is more than enough to keep people stuck like quail until the last moment, but they’ve already got em surrounded by then.

        Things are different outside the US, and it takes time to adjust, but some people just can’t adjust. They’re too old. This is what they say, and it’s true. Most people are sticking like a bunch of quail, and will only bolt when it becomes absolutely obvious that if they don’t they’re definitely going to get stepped on.

        When you made your move, it was obvious that taking that chance wasn’t a great idea. You can see that the safest move was to bolt long before anyone got around to stepping on you.

        I came around to this way of thinking purely by accident. I just wanted to go south for the winter. I needed a break from the cold, and when I saw how nice it was down south, I couldn’t believe no one had told me about it. Then I started to notice that people had told me about it, but I didn’t believe them. I had to see it for myself.

        It’s ironic that so many people tell me that I’m pessimistic about what’s happening in the US, but I see it more like they’re pessimistic about what’s going on in the rest of the world. I’m optimistic that things will get better, but not before they get much worse. I just don’t want to be around for the much worse part. I think you’re on the same page there.

        • Ah, so true, Shnark!

          I can only imagine what people think of small non-industrialized countries. I know just the images that people back in NY have about rural areas in THIS country, are laughable!

          They imagine KY is chock full of inbred hillbillies, a la the old Deliverance movie; Klansmen, and ignorant farmers who drive 50 year-old pick-ups! LOL!

          This, from people who may have never set foot out of the environs of the NY metro area in their life, or if they did, it was to go to another nearby place or other big metro area.

          Meanwhile, the “ignorant farmers ,Klansmen, and hillbillies” here have a far more realistic picture of what NY is like; and live a quality of life that can not be had by even the rich in NY- much less by a blue-collar working person.

          I don’t see things getting better here at all. Even when the present system implodes. Over the course of human history, tyranny has only increased. After Patriarchal times- which was probably the last time there was any actual widespread freedom from government on earth, it’s just been a steady march to colonize and exploit every square inch of this earth- with maybe a few brief periods of relative freedom existing in various places at various times- but not for long.

          T’is human nature to enslave, steal, desire power over others, etc. Unless one practices a philosophy which abates that nature- like Biblical Christianity, or Libertarianism, any time you get a few people together, that nature will be collectivized.

          Most call me a cynic or a pessimist, but I am merely a realist. The optimism comes in when I come up with ways to avoid and extricate myself from the negative things.

          Instead of BSing myself that “It can’t happen here”, or that I’ll “somehow be O-k; be “one of the lucky ones”, I instead make plans to take positive actions- and I’ve learned by past experience, that such courses of action always work- usually even better than anticipated. (Thanks to always anticipating the worst).

          • Nunzio, I think what it boils down to is in seeing that the best things in life are free and living a simple life bestows one with riches the 1% can only dream of.
            Hollywood portrays hillbillies as inbred sodomites, ala Deliverance, or August: Osage County, Brokeback Mountain etc., but this is really more of a projection, and Hollywood isn’t really attempting to mock as much as justify these behaviors. The superficial theme is mockery, but the underlying one is to point out that there’s really nothing wrong with it.

            I’m not sure those in “fly over country” really even care what city life is really like. I grew up in the country, and more often than not, my neighbors could only look at city life as incomprehensibly absurd.

            One of the ironies is in looking at the city folk who venture out into the country on “camping trips” in their $100k RV’s. I’m not knocking traveling in comfort. I’m actually looking at my travels as being as comfortable as possible; I’m not interested in camping though. To really see people camping one doesn’t have to leave the city at all. Los Angeles is a prime example of a city that is becoming a huge campsite San Francisco is also turning into a third world slum.

            We all have different priorities and goals in life. We’ve all probably made some calculations in an effort to determine how long we can live comfortably on the nest egg we’ve stashed away.

            There does seem to be one glaring problem with the survivalist/ prepping mentality that some are beginning to spotlight which is that there needs to be more cooperation. Far too many survivalists are planning on living out the rest of their lives alone. Unless one has received extensive training to live off the land with nothing, this is a recipe for disaster. Being part of a supportive community is a no brainer, but if one is already invested in a community like that, it can be quite difficult to pull up stakes and leave so I can see how people could be reluctant to split to some far off country where they will have to learn to speak a new language, learn the laws of the land, develop new relationships, connections etc.

            I spent over ten years surfing and smoking dope while living on the street, and can’t begin to explain how much I enjoyed living that way. Most people couldn’t begin to wrap their minds around that sort of lifestyle, and rightly so. It isn’t for everyone. It’s easy to glamorize it for public consumption, but all one needs to do to bring it back down to reality is to point out that at some point you’re going to have to slip off into the woods, squat and wipe your ass with the yellow pages. Tip: spend a little time crumpling for better traction and absorbency. I still keep two six pack rolls of toilet paper in my bathroom because of PTSD due to running out of toilet paper one too many times.

            There’s something a bit disturbing to those dwelling in well to do metropolitan areas the first time they hear a thud rather than innocuous and almost silent “plop” of the modern day water filled toilet bowl. These are just some of the more trivial trade offs that some people are incapable of making. I remember reading an account of the Japanese wearing bags over their heads for privacy when they had to use the public restrooms. This will probably not be necessary or desirable for those who are so eager to implement unisex bathrooms.

            Here’s something I think a lot of people haven’t considered. A lot of the modern conveniences we enjoy up here are manufactured in Mexico, Guatemala, etc. We import a lot of food from these places as well. Fresh fruits and vegetables are less expensive in Jamaica than they are almost anywhere in the US. If there’s an economic collapse, and you need a toilet, the manufacturing plant might have what you want and be willing to trade for something you have, but you will still have to travel a few thousand miles to get it if you’re living up here. The last I heard, the US’s two biggest exports are garbage, and porn.

            • Great, great points, Shnarkle!

              I consider myself a minimalist- but yet I am practical. I like to have the basic tools to do what I need to do- and that’s it. Living in the first-world today makes that all but impossible.

              Travel light. It accomplishes more to secure real freedom than just about anything. It amazes me, the sheer amount of “stuff” that most Americans manage to collect- stuff from which they derive little or no pleasure, if it even gets used at all- more often it just sits in a garage, attic or basement, and may eventually be sold on Ebay to someone else who will make a shrine of it and never use it.

              It’s kinda like classic cars: I love old cars, but I am sickened by the fact that so many people today may have a car that once sold for $4K when new, but today is worth $50K or $100K or more, and is now back in pristine like-new condition, but just sits in a garage, and is trailered to car shows, and never gets used for the purpose for which it exists. Their owners just obsess over them and look at them, and talk about them….but don’t enjoy them. (I know Eric enjoys his, and actually uses it!) -I call the garage/trailer queens “Shrines To Detroit”.

              I’d find the ’57 Chevy that has been beating around Havana for the last 60 years, much more interesting than the pristine restored-to-like-new one that has been driven more than 30 miles in the last 40 years. (Actually, I don’t like ’57 Chevys…)

              I find though, that the more we have that binds us to the infrastructure; that obligates us financially; that requires our time and effort to keep up; that burdens our minds and or takes our time, the less free we are. Such self-imposed tyranny can be almost as bad as government tyranny.

              I guess too, this is why I’d have no problem settling in some remote little far-flung place, because not only wouldn’t I mind living in a very simple house, cabin, hut or yurt, with a few pieces of simple furniture….I’d prefer ot! I desire it!

              Many look upon all the modern trappings we have as “conveniences” and essentials- but in reality, the only reason they may seem convenient or essential, is because living in the first world obligates us to have those things in order to be able to make use of the infrastructure around us; and there is really no option, because that infrastructure is ubiquitous and has made a life of not using it pretty much impossible; or at the least, inconvenient and hard. But where that infrastructure doesn’t exist, it is quite easy to live more naturally, as people always have.

              Hmmm, yeah- the prepper/survivalist types I have encountered, and from what i see of them online, I really don’t “get”.

              Half of them seem to want to live in the city and or live within the system for as long as they can, and then just flee at the last moment when “TSHTF”- which is ridiculous/

              They will get nowhere. They will be ill prepared, despite their so-called prepping (“O-K honey, we made it to ur few acres in the country, with our bug-out bag and a 10 day supply of food and a water filter and a Swiss Army knife…now let’s plant those seeds and just wait for those crops to come in….”); and you can be sure that any scenario they are expecting will be way different than what actually materializes.

              And there we have it again: People not wanting to leave the familiarity, perceived safety, and comfort of the system, even while admitting that it is doomed.

              If they can’t/don’t want to live apart from the system when things are relatively well…what makes them think that they can/will live apart from it in more dire situations?

              The way I look at it is: Why would I want to spend my life living within the sick, corrupt dysfunctional system, and only leaving when forced to do so, as a last resort?

              I live apart from their system nOW- so when the system collapses, I won’t notice much of a difference- but I do get to enjoy my life both now and then.

              It’s very similar: Preppers not wanting to leave the system until it gets so bad that they have to; and Libertarians not wanting to leave the police state. Interesting. And yet they marvel at the statist who doesn’t want to stop supporting welfare-warfare state.

              • Nunzio, re: “Libertarians not wanting to leave the police state.” For them Libertarianism is really a pipe dream. It’s something that is better left to those who know how to live free, and may perhaps spread and take over after the police state is destroyed. I think you’re actually a bit farther along the path than I am. I have done these little excursions out into living off grid; the longest being around 7 years, but right now I can live find when the power goes out, but I don’t really have enough infrastructure in place to live comfortably for more than a month or so. The primary reason being that a boat allows me more flexibility and mobility so I want to put it all into the boat rather than the house; a house I’m not planning on staying in much longer. The biggest regret is in leaving my garden behind. I’m just going to keep my eyes peeled for a good location to grow another one.

                • Hey Shnark!

                  Nawww, I think you’re actually further along than I am. I’m on the grid- but in a minimal way. Like you, I didn’t want to put a lot into it, because I knew from the start that this was just in the journey for me- not the final destination- and utilities here are about the cheapest in the entire country, and quite non-intrusive (They’re actually cooperatives). Works for me! I could live just fine as-is without electric- but i don’t have my own source of water, so it would be foolhardy to try and be totally independent here, anyway.

                  I concur about the boat. It’s really the ideal solution: A place to live, and transportation, which can be very stealth if need be. My escape will either have to be via boat, or overland to a less tyrannical country from which to fly, ’cause i don’t fly in the US. This why I think somewhere in S. or Central America, or Asia might be a good jumping off point for me from which to explore further.

                  And speaking of Libertarian pipe-dreams…. the sad thing is (And I think this idea was popularized by Lew Rockwell- whom I’m not knocking, but just critiquing the idea) that the idea that many Libertarians seem to have today, is that they can create a world that is virtually identical to what we have here in the first world, only via Libertarianism instead of statism.

                  They say we can have “private police”; and “private courts” and that we can have the same type of network of roads as we now have, but privately constructed and owned- and basically just live life as we do now, but without the coercion, extortion and one-sided violence.

                  Of course, that is just not true. What would differentiate private police from the mafia, or a gang, or government police? For that matter, criminals could just as easily have their own anti-police; and what would keep the private police from abusing citizens any more or less so than the statist police?

                  No. Libertarianism/Anarchy must be about individualism and voluntary association. And voluntary association does not somehow automatically give people power over others who may be uncooperative.

                  The only power that would both work, and ensure continued liberty, would be the equalization of force- i.e. that every person, family or community would possess their own arms sufficient to repel any others with nefarious intents- which would also guarantee continued liberty- like the original intent of our Second Amendment, but without the elected god-men of the state who possess “special powers” to control the actions of some.

                  Roads would be locally maintained by local property owners and residents. Imagine, by contrast, as system of pay-to-use roads, and traffic control devices operated by a host of different entities!

                  So no, I don’t foresee a Libertarian world being just like our present first-world, only without the compulsion. And really, if the Libertarian world were going to be just like the world we have now, what would be the point of having it?

                  There’s a reason that these infrastructures and conveniences exist as they do only in nations with highly regimented societies controlled by authoritarian governments: Because such things do not come about naturally merely by voluntary cooperation.

                  There’s a reason the first world did not get to be this way until corporations (which are creatures of government) began to exist.

                  So basically, the way things are in more back-woods undeveloped countries, are a more realistic picture of what a Libertarian world would be like; and the reason those places are much freer than here, is precisely because they have not practiced our models of corporatism, coercion, extortion, warfare, etc. which have built so many of the things we have here.

                  And I am just fine with trading the trappings of the developed empires, for the freer, simpler, more natural life of freer places- in fact, I’d prefer it.

                  But I guess we have seen that a lot of our brethren don’t feel the same way. May the reason they don’t feel the same, is because they have this false vision of what a Libertarian world is supposed to be.

                  You want to see a Libertarian world? Just look back to Patriarchal times. It was when Babylon and Media-Persia, and Greece and Rome came in with their cities and armies and taxes and roads, that liberty was usurped (It’s always the damn roads! Even 2000 years before the first car! 🙂 )

  7. Yeah, those wonderful freedoms that used to exist. Before illiteracy took over Washington, DC. But that’s another story.

    I doubt that any of those “terrorists” knew a thing about the freedoms they were conspiring to take away from us, unless there was a domestic element involved. It used to be when we were shown pictures of the former East Germany, we would laugh at their contribution to the automobile: The Trabant. We used to laugh at the compliance that Soviet subjects were forced to comply with daily.

    Now, they are us.

    And we lost. The “War on Terror” has now turned inward, with us in the cross-hairs.

  8. 8, The 55gr. .223s off the shelf is all I have. I’m not dependent on that particular cartridge anyway. 7.62 NATO is my main cartridge. My only .223 is a Ranch Rifle. I originally bought it to teach my daughter about the Garand action and how to shoot when she was still about 100 lbs.

    She left it here when she went off to school and just took her pistol with her. I hope it never sees any action besides varmints.

    • Ed, a guy I worked with 30+years ago had a Ruger and couldn’t imagine anything being better.

      My old Sp1 convinced him otherwise. It was 1977 when I declared the Colt AR to be the ultimate varmint gun.

      I had to wait 30 years before some “expert” said the same.

      Wish I still had my HK Model 91..
      .worth about $8,000 now.

      • You might remember Michael Pierce who used to write columns that appeared on LRC about 15 years ago. He went to Rhodesia as a merc to join with the Ian Smith side. Anyway, something he wrote told about the Ruger mini-14, as it was called then, being used by the Rhodesians. I liked the Garand action, which is why I bought my first M1A, and the RRR came up for sale cheap when I was making another trade, so I got it for my girl.

        ARs are very popular, I know. Someday you might get hold of several magazines loaded with cartridges that have those 85gr bullets you want. You might even get an M4 with them in ARVN used condition: never fired and only dropped once. 😉

        • Ed, I had a Blue Sky refurbished Garand that I loved. Piniiiinnngggg was a lovely sound. Everybody talked about Garand thumb but I never experienced it. Mine was slicker than greased owl shit.

          I liked the mini but no recoil to throw you off sight picture makes the AR a step above everything else plus most any brand now weighs barely over 6 lbs.

          The 85 gr bullet is new, barely 2 years old and solid copper so it’s mucho accurate and lethal. Its long range accuracy is unrivaled as is its knock’down power.

          Nearly all ARs made now are sub MOA with many being 3/4 to 1/2 making them world class accurate.

          Nearly all trigger sets are better than most anything else with many being double let off.

          My best friend has a custom unit with a carbon fiber barrel guaranteed to be less than 3/4 MOA. I don’t know of any without a top full rail and the better models all have rail attachment point full length and all the way around so accessories can be mounted wherever you like. The full length top rail allows night sights mounted in front of the optics.

          I plan on getting an ATN sight that is infrared plus 5×20 variable scope. It’s actually just a computer with optics. You see with thermal imaging and the super fast processor does the rest including windage, drop compensation according to air pressure, humidity, altitude, angle from level and barrel harmonics. It let’s you fire the instant your on target and sends the info back to your phone taking video starting the instant the bullet is fired. It’s the ultimate night and day scope with thermal imaging that turns off in bright conditions.

          There were problems with the first generation but production was ceased and now the bugs have been fixed and production has resumed. ATN is in it for the long haul now as we old truckers would say. Shoot me an e if eric has given you my address. I think I got hired yesterday.

          • Eightsouth, I’ve been hearing lately that when a kid would get chicken pox it was like a booster shot if you were in your 50’s or 60’s. Does anyone know if there are any cases of chicken pox anymore?

            I also discovered this wonderful new vitamin C supplement that you can take as much as you please and NONE of it goes through you. This stuff is the bomb when you start getting sick. I wake up with a headache, sore throat, fever, and drop about 10 mgs. of vitamin C and by that afternoon my symptoms are gone.

            I used to run to the doc in the box whenever anything happened, but about six months ago I finally dropped my health insurance. Then I cut my finger in half a couple months ago; sliced it on the table saw. I just taped it up with a band aid. The whole top of my index finger turned snow white, then blue and black. It looked necrotic, but the band aid fell off while I was sleeping, and that turned out to be the problem. I can’t feel the tip of my finger anymore, but it healed up and looks as good as it did before I splattered blood all over my shed.

          • 8, if you still have my old email address, it’s the same as the new one except where it was **********@turdball.net, it’s now the same prefix and domain: **********@**********.net

            I emailed eric, but he’s probably been busy.

  9. A few years ago, 17(?) states received “unsolicited extensions” from DHS-those states blew off the requirement and DHS couldn’t really do anything about it. I looked through wikipedia for a mention, but it’s on the webs for those that want to search for it [duckduckgo is probably the best search engine]. The real problem, if I remember correctly, is that compliance was tied to the 2008 stimulus act that provided money for states during the recession (not that it did anything except stimulate inflation) but as those states accepted the money, those states agreed to certain provisions-compliance with REAL ID being among them. Neat trick by Uncle G & the Profligate Spenders.

    • My present home state of Missouri remains non-compliant to the Real ID act. On May 13, 2009 the Missouri Senate unanimously passed HB 361, 43 Ayes 0 Noes. Missouri Governor Jay Nixon signed this bill into law on July 13, 2009. I hope they keep it up, but I am not at all happy with them since they now require everyone to bring a copy of their birth certificate every time they renew their licenses. It appears to me that the state government only opposed the burdens being placed upon themselves, but didn’t give a damn about the burdens placed upon the public. Here is a good wiki page about which states remain non-compliant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act .

  10. Too bad Trump apparently can’t get rid of this Real ID nonsense, but I think he is getting rid of the latest CAFE 54.5 mpg some such nonsense.
    You know, Trump was preaching about he was going to repeal and replace Obamacare, and lots of folks said oooohh, he didn’t ever get that done, but actually he did! – simply by getting rid of the mandate, i.e. the penalty for not purchasing Obamacare, he can now boast that he actually did repeal and replace because, not only are you not penalized for not having it, you can get whatever health insurance you wish. Soooo, effectively he DID repeal and replace Obamacare.

    • Meh…. Yeah, Charlie- they can buy what ever insurance they want (They always could) but since Obammycare didn’t actually go away, that insurance still costs them three times what it used to.

      And while the mandate may be gone for 2018, all of the other BS is still in place, which affects everything from people’s healthcare, to their privacy, to how much their insurance costs; AND being that that infrastructure is still there, it will be easy enough for Hitlery or Mittens Romney or whoever the next grand exalted poobah is to just say the word and restore the odious mandate.

      Donald has been a pretty lame duck (‘cept when it comes to giving more of our money to the military-industrial complex, and waging wars, and threatening even more wars…)

      • Nunzio, eric, etc. One of the things some people may not be considering is that if you do some quick searching around online you can secure unbelievably low air fares to pretty much anywhere you want to go. Usually it requires reservations weeks or maybe months in advance, but when you can fly over to Cambodia, or Vietnam for a couple hundred dollars and stay in a nice room for $30.00 a night; it’s worth it. A buddy of mine flew down to Jamaica for a week. He got his tickets and hotel reservations two days before he left and still only paid $1,000. for a whole week down there. He had a blast. He literally partied so hard he ended up in the hospital.. He asked the hospital staff if they had notified law enforcement because he was sure he was in trouble for getting so out of control. They looked at him quizzically and asked, “Why would we notify the police?” It was then that he began to see that he had become accustomed to being a prisoner in his own country.

        Now he’s trying to figure out where he wants to emigrate to. These are the types of things that happen to people once they take a trip outside the US. These little straws snap and people become obsessed with getting out of Amerika, and all it takes is some cheap airfare and a week in an inexpensive hotel. It’s off season right now too.

  11. schnarkle wrote:

    “Hi Eric, I honestly don’t have any way to comprehend why you think there are no better options outside the US.”

    I’m not speaking for Eric, but I know where he’s coming from. When you spend a lifetime building a life and surrounding yourself with the comfortable and familiar, it’s very hard to walk away from it all.

    I know there are options that are better, but as I previously posted, those options are fairly limited. I’ve traveled around the world, and while many places would be a better choice, many, many more are not.

    “Third World Shitholes” are real, and not where an older white man that is now pay his dues for a lifetime of being rode hard and put away wet, should settle himself in his waning years.

    Call me a hopeless provincial as well, but my family has been here building and sweating and bleeding for this patch of land for over 350 years. I’m not inclined to just walk away from that lightly.

    All that said… Bariloche sure looks pretty.

    • Anti Fed, I guess the bottom line is how bad is it really? I would put the complaints of most people here on the level of a bad hair day, or a rained out tee time. All of these complaints are nothing more than minor annoyances; hardly what one would place on the same footing as a loss of freedom or rights.

      If people were seriously looking at what the government was doing as a threat to their freedoms, they would do considerably more than simply complain about it, or weigh what the government is doing in relation to their favorite hot rod under cover in their garage.

      I’ve worked quite hard for all of my possessions as well, and I don’t really like the idea of selling off a piece of land I’ve been working on for the last eight years, but when our government is doing effectively nothing different than Nazi Germany, I begin to see why the Von Trapp family ended up hiking over the alps in their lederhosen.

      Nothing is going to get any better before it gets a whole lot worse, and people are perfectly within their rights to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that everything will turn out grand. After all, look at how most people don’t seem to have a care in the world. The vast majority of the population don’t seem to have a problem with what the government is doing; they simply don’t care. Look at all of those who are playing those video games at all hours of the day and night, month after month. They’ve just been classified as suffering from an addiction, but I doubt any of them could care less as long as no one decides to prevent them from playing those video games, they’re happy.

      It’s like someone pointed out earlier about how if the government were to cut off our Netflix, or any of the apps on our technological devices, then people would rise up and revolt. I’m not sure that’s even accurate anymore. People are in such a stupor already, most would just go take a nap, or fall into a coma.

      • Hey Nunzio, My mother is 87, but sharp as a tack and as healthy as she was 30 years ago, so she can take care of herself. She’ll jump up and move when she discovers that she’s living in a police state. Hopefully for her, it won’t be too late. My extended family is the same story as yours. One of my nephews is a sheriff’s officer now, and he was the biggest little shit when he was growing up. He’s just the type who would love to blow some vagrant’s head off for peeing in the bushes. Half my family are fundamentalist Christians and can’t wait for Trump to vaporize a whole country; just don’t interrupt a football game with some breaking news story about it. They’ll all celebrate after the game.

        My story looks similar to yours. I moved from California to Florida. I’ve probably saved a few hundred thousand just in taxes, fees, penalty fees, regulatory bs, etc. The difference in the cost of living is unbelievable, but the difference between here and Vietnam or a few choice places in the Caribbean is just as drastic. The writing is on the walls, and I can see why people don’t want to even think about moving. I look at all the crap other people have piled up in and around their homes as well as a few storage containers and it becomes all to apparent that my junk needs to go. It gets more difficult as one gets older, no doubt about it, but all it takes is to start getting rid of a little here and a little there before it starts to get easier.

        I know a few people who have gone over to Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines etc. and married women half their age, and are blissfully happy now. The women over there are nothing like women over here. The only problem I’ve seen is that sometimes if you bring them back to the US, they become infected with the feminist meme and rebel.

        Those who stay out of the US don’t have those problems. For those women, they see it as a contract that they need to take seriously. The biggest problem I’ve seen is when a guy marries one of them, but doesn’t want to have children. Those girls desperately want to have children. The women in the Philippines are all trained as nurses and can make bank working here in the US. One of my buddies brought one back and she had a job as a surgical nurse within a week. He wasn’t making squat, and a year later his financial woes were over. He had his house paid off, and was flush with cash.

      • shnarkle asked:
        “Anti Fed, I guess the bottom line is how bad is it really?”
        In a previous post you wrote:
        “(Regarding South and Central America) – the first thing I notice is that nobody wears seatbelts, or helmets on their motorcycles”

        I suppose it is just that sort of thing that is keeping me here.

        You see, I reckon I’m better off than 98 percent of my fellow AmeriKunts.

        Where I live:
        I am not mandated by law to wear a helmet.
        I am not mandated by law to wear a seat belt.
        I am not mandated by law to obtain any sort of “permit” to carry a firearm.
        I am not mandated by law to purchase “insurance” to drive on public roads.
        I am not mandated by law to turn over my property for private gain.
        I am not mandated by law to pay income tax to the state.
        I am not mandated by law to pay sales taxes to the state.

        That’s just off the top of my head. I could go on, and keep in mind that what’s left of government is pretty minimal and non invasive as well. Not perfect by any means, but head and shoulders above what living in New York or California is like.

        Just goes to show that AmeriKa does not have to be what it is.

        So, I have carved out a nice life here, land to myself, no pesky neighbors, what to me is an ideal climate, in what is arguably one of the most free slices of AmeriKa left.

        Not anxious to walk away from all that, I’m sure you can understand.

          • Too freaking cold in NH, Eight! (& too expensive; & too close to the fall-out when NY gets nuked; & too involved with the Feds….)

            Here in KY we can ride motorcicles without helmets; buy, sell and trade guns with other Kentuckians freely, etc. A few nice perks….but the tyranny so extant everywhere else keeps marching on. (When I moved here, you didn’t need seatbelts; and could smoke just about anywhere, but that all has gone away already…virtually overnight. The clover majority demands it)

              • Eric,

                Let me ask…how hard is your AC system working right now?

                I have my windows open in my office, it’s 54 according to my weather station and the loons and owls are hooting off in the woods.

                I’ll leave now… 😉

                • Hi AF,

                  My AC hasn’t been turned on all summer!

                  I’m at about 3,000 feet in the Blue Ridge. We have some hot days, sometimes – but usually not many. I keep the windows open and it’s usually pleasant.

                  I dread having to close them!

                • It got down to the very low 50’s for several nights in a row this past week. We’re in for a long cold early winter (By southern KY standards) and I’m a skeered!

                  ((Hmmm…I wonder if Shnarkle has lots of grass to mow down there in FL? I could throw my Grasshopper on the trailer, and go down and be his groundskeeper!))

            • AF, I just moved to Maine because it is way freer than Ohio. NH is cool but MEs drug laws are far better.

              But sounds like we are both living the same lifestyle.

              • Stop! You guys are scaring me! I dread the winters here in southern KY!

                Hey, just out of curiosity: Skunkz; AF; Any cheap land up there- like 25-30 acres for $1000-$1500 an acre? (Probably in ME. Probably 10 times that in NH…)

                And is it still true, that you “Cahnt get thayr from hayr”? 🙂

                • Nunz,

                  I quick search shows two five acre wooded building lots for sale about three miles away from me for $17,000 each.

                  There is a 26 acre parcel for $100,000 about 10 miles away.

                  In my home town, residential home listings start at around $30k for a house trailer on a park lot, to over $10 million for a 12,000 square foot lakefront mansion with guest homes, docks, three pools, tennis courts and a 6 bay garage.

                  And yes, it is true, literally.

                  The way I heard it was, that joke was about touristy fellow in Friendship trying get to Boothbay. If you look on the map, or on a chart, you’ll see there is no way to “geht thar from heyah”.

                  You have drive all the back to the “mainland” go around and drive all the way back out.

                • Nunz, I paid $90,000 cash for over 13 acres of wooded land very near a river with a fairly new two bedroom two car garage home. It sits off a private gravel road off a barely paved road in a town with 245 people. There are at least three other plots around me for sale. Would love to have a guy like you for a neighbor.

                  Mainers have a little different accent than the rest of New Englanders I think. Mainers also have a strong mind-your-own-business attitude too.

                  • Ah, if it weren’t so darn cold up there, Skunkz! I always liked the Mainer’s independent/mind-yer-own-bidness personality. I think you and I could be great friends.

                    I couldn’t even take the southern NY winters anymore by the time I left. Winters here in southern KY are tolerable (Short, mild. It might snow once in a while- and it’s usually gone the next day) and still I complain for those three months!

                    I like having a long growing season too, and good pasture. I used to not like the heat…but I acclimated to that- at least it’s not usually humid here.

                    It’s getting to be time to go though. When I moved here, it was like the wild west. I had no close neighbors. A guy bought the 14 acres across the street and just built a house. Now I’m surrounded. My 28 acres is starting to feel smaller. I’m feeling like I’m in the suburbs.

                    I’ll probably stick it out though while my mother’s around- she’s 93, and has a mobile home on my land. I maintain her place, and do her shopping and take her where she needs to go- but she’s not too keen on moving- and since I’ll be leaving the country whjen she’s no longer in the picture, I kinda hate to start setting up a new place, even within the state…..

                    Heh, when I was in my teens and 20’s, I used to dream of moving deep into the Canadian woods and building a cabin…. What was i thinking?!

                • For 20 some odd years because of a friend from the north of Maine I’ve known how cheap land is there. But the cold is something I am not sure I would want put up with and my reference is Chicago winters of the mid 1980s.

                  • Ditto, Brent –

                    I can barely tolerate the 3-4 months of crap weather we have here. Five months of cold (and snow) would cause me to put a shotgun in my mouth.

                  • Brent, I get your and others complaint but I guess it helps that I am retired and plan to hibernate during the winter. And it does not hurt either that I am from northern Ohio and already know how to deal with winter too. ‘Course I am sure ME winters are more intense but the practical knowledge is there.

              • Skunk,

                Welcome to the “Great White North”.

                I lived in Maine for a number of years, it was not as free then as it has become over the years, but you still have a way too heavy tax burden for my taste.

                Enjoy and work to keep that streak going.

                • AF, thanks for calling it the Great White North – I hate the thought of living in New England! Although I think there is a vast difference between ME, NH, VT and MA, RI, CT, the latter three being leftie yankee assholes.

                  Yeah, ME taxes are a little high but cheaper than OH. The ability to smoke weed, carry a gun, and have peaceful MYOB neighbors is worth it.

                  • Skunk,

                    Yeah, I always have to make that distinction to people as well.

                    Northern New England is as different from Southern New England as Texas is from Kalifornia.

                    In my wildest fantasies of secession, I dream of secession of ME, NH and VT combined with merger of the Atlantic provinces of Canada after Quebec finally secedes and they go back to independent “dominions” as they were up to about 60 years ago.

                    Ice free ports, coal, oil and gas reserves, fishing stocks, lumber, tourism, freedom and trade.

                    It could be glorious.

                    • AF, I am a huge secessionist and argue that the US should be dismantled into at least 150 independent, sovereign nation/city states.

            • Damn AF, eric just answered for me.

              We’ve been well over 100 degrees for months, 105 yesterday.
              It would be a relief right now but come winter I don’t think I could put on enough clothes.

              We had -17 one winter and I had to have goggles to see. I can’t find any Mickey Mouse boots these days although I wish I could

              • Eight,

                Make no mistake, winter is real, and it lasts a long time. There were still traces of snow drifts in the woods in May.

                The way I look at it, you can always put on more clothes.

                And while there’s months with no motorcycling, snowmobiling and ice boating is just as fun.

                • Morning, AF!

                  I run almost every day to keep my sanity. I can’t abide freezing cold and snow. Especially the snow. Frozen white shit that ruins everything. Pretty for the first few hours, I’ll concede that. But then? A wet, sloppy mess. Or an impassable, shellacked, crusted can’t effing walk and forget running debacle for weeks on end.

                  Throw it in the Woods!

                  • Eric,

                    That made me chuckle, because that is exactly what I do with the snow: take the backhoe and throw it in the woods.

                    It gets to a point where you can’t even plow it any more, if you don’t scoop and dump it off somewhere, it just piles up, as high as the second story window one winter.

                    At the elevation you are, and not too much further south, you’re not too far from what the climate is here.

                    If the mood hits you to make a move, if the DC parasites and Clovers get too thick, come and check NH out sometime.

                    The more freedom folks, the merrier.

                    PS: our two lane roads still have passing zones and 50-60 mph speed limits.

        • anti fed, I’ve got the same privileges as well. I also don’t pay any property taxes. In a year my utilities won’t exceed a thousand dollars. I don’t have to worry about getting a ticket for walking around with an open container. I have my own private water supply which I tested and found it to be some of the cleanest water I’ve ever had. The problem is more and more people are figuring out how nice it is here, and it’s starting to get crowded. My property valuation has quadrupled in the last eight years. I decided I was tired of mowing my lawn so I killed it, covered it with black plastic, and then a couple feet of mulch. I don’t want to bother paying someone to mow the place when I’m gone, but I would have had complaints from my neighbors back in California, probably had a fine from the county as well. They’re just starting to figure out how much revenue can be gleaned from the permitting process here. Most of the homes in my neighborhood were never permitted. People just clear some trees, haul in some gravel, pour some hot asphalt and build a house. Contractors out here look at me like I’m speaking Swahili when I ask them how much the permit will cost to do a job. “Permit for what?” is what they usually respond with. I call up the county to ask them about permits for my place or site plans, and they have no record of anything, no plat maps, nothing. Like I say, the writing is on the walls though, and what happened in California is happening here. There are only so many places to run before one realizes that this is no way to go through life.

          When I left California, I thought I’d pick up a new car without any of that pesky California smog crap, but lo and behold, it’s on all cars imported into the US. There are no smog checks or certification required where I live now so I cut the crap out and the car runs and sounds considerably better, but I paid someone to commit a felony in the process.

          I don’t have to wear a seatbelt or a helmet either, but that’s not why I’m leaving a country that is being gutted from within. When capital flight has been endemic for decades, it’s time to follow the money.

          I’ve been here eight years, and only seen two homeless people; both in the last six months. I know there are more, but when the homeless are so well hidden at least they have enough sense to keep a low profile. Out in CA, they’re everywhere. The southwest looks like a third world country. There’s trash everywhere. Out here, a single piece of trash is incredibly noticeable. it’s almost shocking.

          Having an extra thousand dollars in the bank at the end of the month can inspire one to pick up stakes pretty quick when you have other things you’d rather be spending your money on. I’m practically living for free as it is, but this is nothing compared to living outside the US.

          I’m not content to live better than idiots, but to each their own. I don’t begrudge anyone who likes the life they have here in the US. I just get tired of some people complaining about how bad it is here, yet don’t seem to think it’s bad enough to move. I can’t stand someone who can see the writing on the walls, and the best they can do is point out that they’re screwed because they’re too old, or they don’t want to leave the home they built, etc.
          I built a beautiful place in northern California, and sold it in order to buy a veritable dump for next to nothing. It’s almost worth as much as my nice place back in California now, but I can walk away from it without a thought. It doesn’t mean much of anything to me. That’s a level of freedom few AmeriKans will ever know.

            • Hi Ed,

              Schnarkle makes a number of solid points but at the same time – as I wrote previously – it’s no small thing to reboot your whole life in middle life. It’s one thing to retire outside the U.S. My friend Fred Reed did that. But he’s an older guy and I assume he doesn’t have to work anymore. What if you do? It’s one thing to be 25 or even 35 and start a new career. But at 45 or 55?

              Then, your friends. People you’ve known for decades and who are a big part of your life. If you leave the country, you leave them behind. You will perhaps “stay in touch” via text and phone and such. But you can’t hang out with them anymore; go out, have a beer. Yes, I know. New friends. Not as easy at 45 or 55 as it was at 25 or 35.

              For me, there is also stubbornness. Got damn them – the Clovers, I mean. Why should I have to vacate on account of them? I think I’d rather stand my ground – and fight, if it comes to that. Yes, I know. I will lose. But it will cost them a little, at least.

              And I maintain some small hope that things will get better here. And I feel obliged to try.

              • I agree. This is my home. I’m not running away anywhere, and I’m sick of these chickenshits talking about how I should get out before it’s too late.

                Anybody who wants to run away can do it, but I don’t need them telling me that I have to run away or that I’m a stupid asshole for not wanting to flee.

                If a man wants to go somewhere else, he could just go. Who wants to hear him make excuses or justifications? Who needs to be called a coward or an idiot for not wanting to run and hide the way he says he’s doing?

                FTAFTFH.

                • Ed, spoken like a true old codger….and I agree with this message…isn’t that what the pols say?

                  Speaking to my best friend the other day I asked if any of the 85 gr. 5.56 bullets were being loaded by anyone. Not yet was the reply. Well, goddammit, guess I’ll just have to get a box and load it myself.

                  Since it’s anniversary time, I’ve been keeping my gates locked for a while now and will continue to do so. You better have a damned good reason….and not just a rumor to cut a fence in Tx.

                  Of course they’ll do what they do every time they fuck up, call in the feds. There’s not over 10,000 pages of federal law for nothing. And since some contradicts other, it’s always a handpicked set of charges.

                  Ever notice nobody these days has one charge? When there’s a half dozen laws pertaining to the same thing you use them all and then a few more just for good measure.

                  I was capable and healthy enough 15 years ago to leave and tried to get the wife to see it but she was saying “What about my family?” Shit, I don’t know. They have these things called airplanes now and they could get on one if they wanted to see you. Of course they’ve always waited for her to come to them. We’re back to “We Ain’t Comin Out”.

                  • You guys!

                    I swear, what youse are saying is verbatim what the Germans were saying.

                    Listen to ya’s! Youse sound like clovers….

                    But the truth of the matter is, that those who truly value liberty will pursue it, because they HAVE to; because we are not willing to move that line back any further than it already is, just so we can hang out with some familiar friends (who probably don’t truly even share our core values), or because ‘We won’t let *them* push us around” [But we’ll let them dictate everything we do…or can no longer do…).

                    Look at the price many who were involved in the American Revolution paid. Many lost their fortunes; their homes; their families; even their lives.

                    We on the other hand, are not yet to that point of desperation. All we have to do is to look around and say ‘This sucks, and it isn’t going to end well”, and pick a place that suits us, where the weather is nice, and where we can be left alone, and go there. And we are blessed to be a position where we are able to do that, while many around us, even if they wanted to, could not.

                    To throw such opportunity away, really makes me question jjust how much we desire to be able to live the ideals which we preach, vs. just advocating them while enjoying the benefits of the empire.

                    Liberty isn’t free. It costs something. It isn’t always easy, either. But those who love it, will seek it out. We’re very lucky to have the options that we do, which at this point don’t even involve risk nor bloodshed, nor even economic loss. Is a little effort and inconvenience, and giving up of the familiar even too high a price to pay for something so great to gain?

                    Those who are unwilling to even do so little to procure a little of what they desire, are certainly not going to resist unto death- so the only option that remains is to just keep moving the line in the sand further and further back; saying “Well, I have to do this, this time….but that’s it! That’s as far as I go!”- until the next decree issues forth which may threaten our property or our livelihood or our ability to travel on the roads…. So you’ll gripe and complain about each successive intrusion….

                    Ya know, most of the people whom I knew who have left already, didn’t even have an understanding of even the basics of Libertarianism/Anarchism; They were merely sick of the intrusions of the state, and realized that it was only going to get worse, and that they had no future here.

                    They never heard of Murray Rothbard or Ludwig Von Mises….but they could recognize tyranny just the same, and were unwilling to keep complying. So rather than just talking about it, and exploring the philosophical and ideological implications, they took action, and secured a better life for themselves. They’re living it.

                    • Nunz, “Liberty isn’t free.”

                      Agreed. But Liberty is not defended by running away from the threats to it either.

                      Our job is not to try to prop up the US system; our job is to survive its collapse. Only then can Liberty be restored to those who are worthy of it. How one decides their own best way to do that is up to them and should be respected.

                    • Amen, Skunk…

                      Also – and this is speaking just for me – I feel obliged to do what I can to to least try to spread the word. I have the opportunity to write and speak to audiences that are fairly large and that is not something I take lightly. Not when so many others are parroting the authoritarian collectivist sing-along. Put another way, I am positioned in a way that few are – and so there is an element of obligation for me. One I assume gladly, I hasten to add.

                      I don’t fault Schnarkel or anyone else for leaving, if they can and if it’s what they want. But I am going to do as you’ve described – and stay and try to survive what’s coming.

                    • Skunkz, I want more than mere survival. People can survive in a prison camp.

                      I want to live out my life as much as being able to actually live as I choose, and not under the dictates and constructs of some Aryan (or mulatto, or whatever) super”people”, or the “will of the majority”, etc. etc.

                      If you’re in a prison, you don’t ignore the open gate and say “Escaping would be cowardly! Our job is to stay and fight, and try and reform the system, or just weather the storm!”. That would be foolhardy.

                      The Founders of this country, even in old England, where the tyrants had little more than quills for writing and horses for transport, realized they could not overcome the tyranny of a ruling class who were supported by the hearts and minds of the majority around them- and how much more is our ruling class in possession of those hearts and minds, having the sophisticated techniques and technologies of today?

                      How much progress have you made in thwarting tyranny in your decades upon this earth, other securing a little pittance of solace for yourself now by trying to duck below the ever-encroaching radar for a bit longer?

                      A wise man assesses any potential conflict and determines his odds of success- and either engages if he thinks his force is up to the task of his opponent’s, or retreats of he realizes that he is greatly out-numbered and over-powered.

                      We are ALL in the process of retreating- whether it be by extricating ourselves from metro areas and tyrannical states, or by lessening our footprint on their radar screen- we are all retreating because we know damn well that we are ridiculously out-numbered and over-powered, because all those around us view us as the enemy and the oligarchy as their protectors.

                      It’s ridiculous to think that we can do anything more than just hide, here.

                      Try and educate others- the few who may also still have some conscience and a spark of liberty, and all you will have is more people to whine and lament.

                      Moving from a tyrannical place to less tyrannical place was the single biggest thing I ever did to improve my life and secure some liberty and thwart tyranny- at least for me.

                      As I see the tentacles of tyranny ever encroaching here (and everywhere else), as I knew they would, and realize that the very same scenario will play out here as what did in the past in NY- only even faster (and it’s starting already) why would I want to stay and take the blows and lose my liberty?

                      How exactly does one accomplish anything by standing their ground in the face of a tsunami?

                      If that could accomplish anything, I would have stayed in NY. Had I stayed in NY and tried to stand my ground, I would be dead instead of enjoying the last 17 years of some of the best years of my life, and even increasing my wealth to the most it’s ever been (A laughable amount to most…but good for me!).

                      The only worthwhile fight is one in which you at least have a chance of accomplishing something worthwhile by winning, and at least somewhat of a chance of winning. Otherwise, you might as well just walk up to Mike Tyson and call him a nigger.

                    • Nunz, as usual you make some great points. I just argue that there is no singular correct response to the coming tyranny. Flee or fight, depends on the individual’s situation and personality. I am like Eric, too tired and with a Fuck you! I aint running anymore attitude.
                      The important thing to remember is that we are all on the same side with the same goals. Both “runners” and “Rambos” – as ED labels us – are going to be needed in this long fight. Us Rambos will, hopefully, stop the pyschos or at least slow them down. Giving you runners something to come back to finish the job by creating a more Liberty oriented society. We must respect each other, for Liberty’s sake.

                    • Oh, Skunkz, no disrespect to “stayers” intended.

                      I’ve spent a lot of time over the last few days posting about this subject- to my own detriment- and I wouldn’t have invested that time if I didn’t think you guys were worth it.

                      I’m not really trying to convince anybody against their will- because as I’ve said somewhere above, just like leaving a tyrannical state for a less tyrannical one; or leaving the city for the country, your heart has to be in it, or it won’t work.

                      But I would like to at least try and hammer home the reality that there will be no fight here. There is no one to stand with.

                      If you can’t go, or don’t want to go, that is your [collectively] prerogative of course, but I just hope that at this point, everyone understands the full ramifications of their intended choices for the near future.

                      As I’ve said numerous times: The only options are:
                      Comply.
                      Die.
                      Flee.

                      If you’ve scratched “flee” off of the list as not an option…..then you know what the remaining options are. Most will comply, as we all have been doing thus far.

                      I guess too, that another purpose in my posting is to help encourage those who may also have a spark for the idea of fleeing already.

                      Or to at least get people thinking about it, because it is not something that one can usually do on the spur of the moment; and the window of opportunity is getting smaller and smaller.

                      Those who have not yet even considered the idea of fleeing, do not have the luxury that I have had of being able to turn these things over in my mind and acquire info, etc. for the last 25 years- and sadly, even today with the internet- there are not many good resources out there for prospective expats, from a Libertarian standpoint.

                      So what ever one intends to do or not do, I would at least like to try and make people at least think about WHAT they are going to do, and what the realistic prospects are.

                      Hey, in the meantime, at least you’ll be having some good times up there in ME.- and definitely seeing a noticeable improvement over OH- and just the experience of setting up a new place, and acclimating to a new environment that is different from what you left, can really be invigorating and joyful; and I hope that you enjoy every minute of it, just as I did when I moved here! (And a big Pfffftttttt!!!! to all the naysayers back in NY who thought I was crazy for leaving that hell-hole!)

              • Eric, agreed. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. So long as one sees the danger, assesses what is best for them and theirs, and acts on it to the best of their ability/situation then they are my brother. Everyone else I do not care about. Not one fuckn bit.

                • Hi Nunzio, I had to scroll around a bit in order to find a reply button.
                  Some time ago at this site; I attempted to form an information sharing community of people desiring to become expats. Given the number of eyeballs reading these articles; I expected at least a couple of dozen people to contact me.
                  Imagine my surprise when even you did not join up even after a second direct invitation!
                  Out of all of these eyes having read the articles and replies: only Snarkle contacted me!
                  If some of you are now interested; please sign up for Proton Mail for free. It encrypts messages automatically and the company is based outside of the communist USSA.

                  • Hi, Brian!

                    Oh! Now that you mention it, I do remember you mentioning the Proton mail. I had even bookmarked it.

                    I’ve thought about doing the info-sharing thing too- but better that you should do it 🙂 ’cause I never seem to have the time to get involved in more online activities (As you can see, this comment section keeps me pretty busy!)

                    I will contact you, and appreciate the opportunity to do so.

                    The info sharing idea is something that would be a great help to a handful of people, ’cause there is really nothing out there, even in the “expat community” with a Libertarian perspective; it’s mostly just “Look what you get for your money in this _____country, and $40/month socialized medicine and nice beaches. Never mind the armed soldiers on the streets, or the fact that foreigners can’t own real estate…”.

                    As you see by the lack of interest here, you wont exactly be helping a thronging mob….but if we can help each other and maybe one or two others who are desperately seeking info, it’s well worth it.

                    • I would enjoy reading it. I have been looking for a couple of years, mostly from curiosity. All the general information that is normally found is what Nunz described.

                    • Hi Nunzio. Your point about all those websites promoting emigration to X country due to supposed low prices is spot on. Additionally “low prices” is subjective. Plenty of those sites proclaim that you can rent a nice place and be fed meals for only +- $1000 per month. Guess what: I already beat that price every month right here in the Soviet USSA! They also assume that I want to live pretty much exclusively among expats. I will certainly want to have expat friends, but I value rural living enough that I would try to become friends with the native rural folks. I remain open to the idea of finding a native spouse and having children too. My male ancestors seem to all live well into their 89’s, so I _probably_ would live long enough to raise children.
                      There already exists plenty of sites which cater to somewhat wealthy to vary wealthy people who clearly are not libertarians.
                      My hope was to establish a private libertarian group where information can be shared. Encryption is important because certain topics should not be disclosed here in the land of the free which is why I encourage the use of Proton Mail, but for its encryption to work: all parties need to be using it.
                      You and Shnarkle might even have expat friends to invite.

                    • Hi Ya, Brian!

                      I’ll definitely be in touch one day this week. I currently use a Russian email service- it should be fine- but if you have a problem with it, lemme know when I write. (It ain’t gonna be Gmail, that’s for sure! LOL)

                      Same here with me! It would be hard for me to spend $1000 a month!

                      Most of those expat sites seem to be aimed at retirees who want to live in apartment in a big city with all of the conveniences and then some- and who want to eat out all of the time, etc.

                      I’m like you- I want rural land. I want to be MORE rural than I am here…and I’m pretty rural here. Not to say that the some of the smaller towns and cities there might be a pleasant place to branch out from.

                      Rent a small house for peanuts…..maybe even experience what it’s like to go into a cafe or bar (something i don’t do here) and get to see people SMOKING; people who don’t all look and dress and talk the same and who don’t have smartphones glued to their hands….

                      There’s some good stuff to be experienced out there. We Americans have acquired such a narrow perspective of the rest of the world- it’s as if nothing outrside of the US, Canada and the commonwealth countires even exist! (Good! Keep the buggers from invading them!)

                      Funny thing, I’ve known probably 8-10 people/families who have left- most prior to 2010- and we stayed in contact for a while- but as most of them either had families with them, or had relatives join them after a while, or just got involved in their local communities, they just all pretty much tapered off all contact with former friends and family here.

                      Anywho…talk to you soon.

      • Eric, you remind me of the attitude I used to have when going into a fight. My only goal was to get a few good shots in early so at least they would be hurting in the morning. Knowing you’re going to lose when you’re 25 is different than when you’re in your 50’s. Same goes for getting into an accident on your motorcycle. I had a few doozies when I was in my 20’s, but one of those now would put me in the hospital.

        I think it boils down to different ways of thinking, and associating with those who think the same way you do. I respect those who want to stay and fight, but I also see the wisdom of those who have already left. I’ve probably already pointed this out before, but those who left Zimbabwe before it was 100 million dollars to buy a loaf of bread were referred to as “going on the chicken run”. After the SHTF, those who stayed referred to themselves as “idiots’.

        Initially, it was only those who had obscene amount of money who would gladly fork over an 80% exit tax just to be free of uncle’s shake down. Now it’s becoming a matter of people just getting tired of these onerous tax laws that are too confusing and expensive to figure out on your own. People who don’t really make that much money at all are renouncing their citizenship just to be free of the hassle.

        I’ve been locked up a few times when I was younger, and that in and of itself wasn’t what was so bad. What was worse was being in the system for the next ten years hopping through their hoops. The problem is that the whole country is becoming a prison, and we’re already being forced to jump through their hoops. It’s one thing to have to do that when I’ve done something I shouldn’t have, but when I haven’t done anything wrong to begin with, and I’m being treated like a criminal; family and friends, kith and kin can get in line for their ration of abuse; I’ve got better things to do. At some point everyone eventually realizes that it’s time to go. It’s really just a matter of how much anyone is able to take before they’ve had enough. When you see what’s happening in these incremental ways, it obviously bothers you. You know what’s happening, and you know that you’re being slowly conditioned to accept it. Knowing this isn’t enough to take action because we’re comfortable here. The media is eager to spotlight all of the other places in the world that are worse off than we are here which reinforces this fact. We know this, and at some point it begins to torment us. Your articles are a testament to this fact; some can handle it better than others. For some it’s really not a big deal at all.

        I can remember reading about Jews who saw the writing on the walls, and left as well as those who survived the holocaust remarking that they could see the same things happening in the US thirty years ago. Most of those people are all dead now, but when they’re thinking of moving again, that’s a powerful sign.

        People like to spout off about how they’re going to go out shooting, but most will change their tune when there’s a SWAT team getting ready to ram their door down. I get flustered and upset when I’ve got raccoon rampaging through the chicken coop. I know how to use a gun, but at 3 in the morning, I can barely see anything. My eyes are burning, and with all those chickens squawking and screaming, the stress level is overwhelming. I’m frantic, and there’s not even anyone shooting at me.

        • ” I get flustered and upset when I’ve got raccoon rampaging through the chicken coop.”

          Well then, you’re probably right to run away. If I was the kind that freaked out over a racoon getting into the chickens, I wouldn’t be calling other people stupid for having a little better nerves than you do.

          If you’re scared, just say you’re scared. No need to try to panic anyone else besides yourself. Just run away, and later for all that justification noise.

          • Ed, I don’t recall calling anyone stupid, and I’m not attempting to panic anyone else either. In fact, what I’ve pointed out is that no one really knows what’s going to happen. I’ve also pointed out that it doesn’t make much sense to portray the current situation as dire when one doesn’t back it up with the proper response. If fire is approaching your home and destruction is imminent, pointing out that you don’t want to leave your friends of family behind, or you don’t know how you will find work if you leave, doesn’t seem like justification for staying, does it?

            It isn’t fear, it’s frustration at not being able to see what I’m doing in the dark while my chickens are being torn to pieces. If you haven’t gone through boot camp and spent some time in a combat situation, I suspect those who have would be making the same point I am.

            Don’t worry about it Ed, nothing is going to happen. Chances are the ptb will never notice you as a threat to begin with. You have nothing to worry about.

            • I’m not worried about it. You certainly are, though, and you’re writing thousands of words trying to get others to worry too.

              These days, it must seem sophisticated to some people, wanting to emigrate. If you’re the immigrant kind, go ahead. My people have been here as long as there have been people, at least some of them, and some came here in the 18th century.

              I just don’t get all the panic that you runaways are experiencing. Y’all must be easily rattled.

              • Ed, I don’t think either one of us is worried about it. I’m simply pointing out that those who point out that we’re losing our rights and freedoms obviously don’t believe this is anything to get more worked up over except to observe it as one would observe a change in the weather. My only other observation is that if it looks like rain, they don’t seem to feel any necessity to grab an umbrella if they go outside. For some reason this bothers you. You’re the one who seems to be irritated by these observations, not me. Your exaggerations spotlight the fact that you seem to be triggered by people who prefer traveling. Despite your protestations to the contrary, your inability to travel appears to be the real underlying reason for your whining.

                • Whatever, shnookie. I’m not whining, though. I’m really just having a little private laugh at you getting rattled over a ‘coon in the chicken coop.

              • Ed,

                Friends, relatives, acquaintances, and neighbors back in NY couldn’t understand why I wanted to get out of there, either.

                Now they many of them want to leave too- but they haven’t put in the necessary prep work- so if they leave, they end up going to someplace either just as bad, or where they are not happy.

                Many can not leave, because of obligations which take time to extricate oneself from, if extrication is even feasible. They see the handwriting on the wall (Literally!); they scoffed at the idea of leaving, 10 years ago- because they couldn’t see what was coming. Now it has come, and they finally “get” that it’s time to leave, but beating a hasty retreat from a $500K bungalow that is declining in value, and on which you owe $450K with $14K a year property taxes, as your job in the City is going away, and the wife is not cooperative, and when you’ve never even seriously considered the ramifications…is pretty much a non-issue.

                Or how about the people in the desert in CA.? Out of the blue, an armed army of code enforcement agents show up, and tell them that their trailer which they’ve been living in on a few hunnert dollars a month for the past 25 years, isn’t up to code, and will require a permanent foundation to the cost of $100K; or that their neighbor 3 miles away “complained” about their rain-water collection system being an eyesore, and now that they are aware of it, it is not permitted, so it must go. “Oh, and by the way, being you have no source of water in this place, we are condemning it!”.

                I really thought that most of the regulars here at least would see, if not what is coming, at least what is already here- even if it hasn’t gotten to their doorstep yet.

                I guess you guys think you can wait till it gets to your doorstep, and then play Rambo, and it’ll magically be better.

                You guys DO realize that unless you want to go fleeing in the middle of the night as a refugee with nothing but the clothes on your back, a major life-changing move (if you want it to truly be for the better) takes YEARS of research and preparation, even if you have nothing. If you have something it gets even messier.

                First you toy with the idea of possibly going.
                Then you decide that you’d like to go.
                Then you decide that you HAVE to go.
                Then you start thinking of practicalities- and come to terms with things like the fact that you will not just go somewhere and buy a house and get a job, and live within an infrastructure like we have here…because although there are places where one can indeed do that, such places do not offer any more freedom than what we have here (and usually have a good deal less!)- nor do they want us.

                You have to accept the mindset of being self-sufficient- and of living in a different paradigm than what many here are used to.

                You have to research 1000 criteria of 1000 different places; places for which there are no handy statistics and figures, but what info is available is often from individuals, or a little footnote or reference in a corner that leads to another footnote somewhere else.

                How do you visit a place that is half way around the world and whose places of potential interest may take days to get to once you are there? Or are you resilient enough to just take an educated leap and deal with what comes? Etc. etc.

                I’ve known for over 30 years that I would be leaving, sooner or later- and I’ve used my time to prep.

                You guys, when the heat is turned up and that line in the sand is back as far as she’ll go, and you finally realize it’s time to go- it’ll be too late, because you can’t just pick up and go tomorrow.

                Just accepting the fact that going is the only viable option, is the very first step. It’s so late in the game already, even if you were to make that decision now, I’d think that it’s almost too late to act upon it. You have to be prepared, mentally and physically. Maybe going down with the ship is inevitable for some- but it’s just sad that any who proclaim the ideals of liberty should be in that group, while lesser men have already manned the lifeboats and are safely in Tahiti.

                • Sorry, Nunz, but that screed was too long to read. How about this: You go where you want to go, and I’ll stay where I want to stay.

                  I won’t call you a runaway, and you won’t call me a Rambo wannabe. OK?

                  • But who gets to be the ringmeat Mongoloid dickweed, Ed? Oh…Bill, of course! ‘)

                    Hey, I’m not calling anyone anything; just trying to make ya sit up and take notice.

                    You know what’s coming. That Obammycare mandate will be back (or something worse) in a couple of years, and this time, it’ll likely have teeth. The Real ID will quickly become mandatory- or are you guys going to not drive; or chance driving without a license?

                    We’ve all seen the pattern a million times over: First it’s an idea. Then it’s a reality, but with an opt-out or in a “soft” way; Then it becomes mandatory… Just think of all the various nefarious things that the above can apply to, just as it has applied to to get us to this point.

                    We’ve all bowed thus far. The only things we resist are the those for which resistance has little or no consequence. Is that a way to live? And it’s only getting exponentially worse.

                    • I do know that speculating about what some gaggle of ringmeats might try to do to me is pointless at my age.

                      My standard saying applies: You give your life to live your life.

                    • The Ringmeat army is huge, Ed. Everyone’s turn will come, it’s just a matter of when. Every time you drive down the road, you’re chancing an encounter. Increasingly, such encounters do not go well, unless one is a clover who doesn’t mind sucking it up. I am not, and I don’t think you are either- but the ringmeat will expect ya to be. Whatchya gonna do?

                    • Morning, my Wop friend!

                      Like you, I ditched to a rural area for a number of reasons – including greatly reducing the odds of my having to deal with armed government workers. There are fewer of them here; one can do days without seeing one. And I can just stay home and reduce my chances of seeing one to zero, just about.

                      But, the Hut! Hut! Hutting! is coming here, too. The local armed government workers got a new fleet of Ford Explorers with radar guns – which they didn’t use to have. Now they are out “patrolling” the roads for victims to mulct. They also got some Hut! Hut! Hut! military gear, just like most of the other Hut! Hut! Hutters! around the country.

                      I kind of grok how the Indians must have felt back in the 1800s, as they suffered their lands being taken, their peoples herded onto reservations. The tribes retreated to the woods, back into what was left of the frontier… until one day there wasn’t any frontier left.

                    • Hi Nunz!

                      Just got another threat letter from the Feds in re my “shared responsibility.” They are taking on interest and now suggesting various “payment plans” to settle what I “owe.”

                    • Shit, I have to go all the way back to Nunz to have a reply button. Fuck you word press.

                      Eric, you’re right about the indians and the govt. even foists epidemics and pandemics on the entire world but bringing the worst back to the US via “helping” Angola or some other shithole. The orange one took a big crock of shit for shitholes but according to people I know who have been to Africa, shithole would be a good description if the fuckers would just dig a hole but they don’t. Like Forest said, When I got ready to go, I did…..and so does the entire population of all those shitholes, wherever the urge comes on.

                      I’ve been told you thought you might have experienced some of the worst aspects of life but once you deplane in a shithole, where everyone simply shits when the urge strikes, you don’t know that an entire country can literally smell like shit.

                      But back to the subject at hand, we are being attacked by corporations with the latest outbreak of cyclospora courtesy McDonald’s salads. The list goes on and on. Take a look at it. I laughed when the bottom of the list was Hep A due to homelessness and drug use. Yep, everybody taking a hit of pot is getting Hep A.

                      And they used to gather us up when we was chilluns and have a chicken pox party or mumps party. Ignorance is bliss till you’re about 60 and that shit comes back to you as Shingles and MRSA.

                      I used to hit the doc frequently and thought I’d goddam die this past late winter from fever going up and down. I swore off acyclovir and clindamyacin altogether since I began to, what I thought and so did the doc, need them concurrently. Now I just dope up with organic coconut oil and let the suppuration fall where it may and since I don’t always have to take a probiotic to offset the two and I just adopted an “I don’t give a shit if the sun don’t shine” attitude, they’re both much better.

                      I sleep better and that makes everything else better which allows me to sleep better and so on.

                      Well, I ain’t going nowhere cause I can’t and don’t know where I’d go anyway. Texas isn’t perfect and gets less so with the huge influx of yankees and Ca. yankees but it beats shit out of most other states, not all, but it’s where I am and as long as I can still raise the Come And Take It flag I’ll do so.

                      Since I have dial up and this thread is about the size of War and Peace, I’m going to unsubscribe and try not to think about all that shit that makes my Shingles and MRSA literally eat my old ass alive. See you on another topic.

                    • Hi Ya, Eric!

                      Yours and my experiences are so similar! But then again, this crap is happening everywhere where it hasn’t already been established in the past.

                      There’s nowhere left to go, here. Just like the poor Injuns [Great analogy, by the way!]

                      Not even the desert. The armed government goons are sitting out in the middle of NOWHERE, just waiting for that car to come by at 75MPH- 5MPH over the already ridiculously low 70MPH limit in a place where there’s no other cars, and no towns or anything for 100 miles, just so they can “run your info” and hit you up for several hundred dollars, and brag to their brother-in-swine “Did you see how that guy nearly shit himself?!”; and where the building inspector or code enforcement agent spends all day trying to find your place, so he can tell you that you’re not in compliance and will have to leave.

                      Seen any Indians lately?

                      I’m like you- I don’t WANT to leave. I’ve built a great place here. It’s better than I had ever imagined it could be; more than I hoped for. It’s what I always wanted. I HAVE to leave, because I won’t go quietly into the night, and I’d rather trade what I have here for something of like kind, but with more liberty, rather than see them take/destroy it.

                      Methinks 2 years from now when the next poobah is elected, that Obammycare stuff is gonna come back to bite yas! They’re just keeping it warm now…. 🙁 Not gonna win any battles here.

                • I agree Nunzio. Our ancestors from long ago decided it was time to leave their country. They did not have the Internet to use to research potential countries to move to. They read books and newspapers along with the letters sent to them by those who had already left. They did not usually have a chance to visit places first. They rolled the dice and blindly moved here.

          • Hey Nunzio, I had to scroll down to find a reply button. I likewise have a Russian e-mailed account called Yandex. It is no more secure in the U.S. than any other unencrypted email service. All emails get stored by the spooks, so it is important to encrypt messages that the state might want to read. Proton is free and easy to use. I don’t understand why people tend to want to keep using spy-enabled e-mail.

            • Ha! Yeah Brian…Yandex! I know it’s not encrypted….I don’t care. I think that the use of all of that stealth stuff, if anything, just alerts “them” of who may be worthy of looking at.

              And all that info they may or may not collect (They don’t seem to make much use of it, for all they supposedly collect, do they?) I think they’d have a very hard time handling it and sorting through it to find anything that may be of interest, anyway.

              And in the past, how often did it turn out that they had an encryption key or something anyway?

              I don’t say anything that would be of use to “them” anyway- and even if one did, unless they were using a machine/device which had absolutely no connection to them, and only ever used it on anonymous public wifi, they couldn’t avoid scrutiny.

              Sometimes, I think stuff like that becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy- ya end up acting suspicious….you call attention to yourself because you stand out from all the millions of Gmail and Yahoo.com people who are happily going about their business.

              Just my $.02

              • Hi Nunzio, Of course it is possible that using encrypted email might draw attention to ones self, but so what? They can’t decrypt it.
                There may be things discussed that may later be crimes, and the state can go back and read what you have written, and use that against you.
                Right now, they seem to be only collecting emails and only digging for dirt on those who have been arrested, but they are building search software for the purpose of going through all stored emails.
                Sending unencrypted emails with data about precise times, places, and ways to bypass the state or certainly laws on unencrypted email makes as much sense as trying to breast feed a chicken.

                • Ahh, it all boils down to just being a crap-shoot, Brian.

                  Look at those people who thought they were safe from prying eyes by using the TOR browser. WRONG!(Yeah, big surprise there… NOT!)

                  And if the government can really do all this (I don’t know if they can or can’t- or maybe a little of each) why do they need the cooperation of Microsoft, to put backdoors in the operating systems (I don’t use Windurs!) and why do they have to sue Apple for access?; And why do they have to work with Google and Facebook, etc. etc.

                  Personally, I think a lot of their claimed abilities are smoke and mirrors, to make us think that they are more omnipotent than they really are- just like the Soviets use to pull on their people.

                  And really- C’mon- 250,000 people a year leave this country. Last time I checked, it wasn’t a crime, and if it becomes one, they sure have a lot of other easier-to-catch fish to go after, who would be much more lucrative catches than li’l old you and I.

                  I sent you an email earlier today….

                  • Ahh, but Nunzio, they were safe using TOR and encryption. I am unaware of TOR being compromised. Please provide a link to an article saying that TOR has been broken if you can. The busted people I have read about had gotten careless and did not disable javascript or they left clues in their login or profile page. Some of them did not encrypt their email. I bet nearly all of them were using Windows. It is important to lay blame precisely where it belongs. Blaming TOR for careless human behavior is like blaming computers and the Internet for the same thing.

      • Hey Eric, leaving Washing DC is probably not much different than leaving California, but what I’m only dimly beginning to understand is that when leaving a hell hole pretty much anything will look considerably better. When I tell my friends and family back in California that I pay no property or state income taxes, they don’t believe me. They still hold to “if it looks too good to be true, it probably is to good to be true”.

        A lot of times, it can be the little things that make a difference though. Being able to walk down the street with a beer or a joint without being ticketed or arrested. Being able to jump on my bike without having to strap on a helmet. These things may seem inconsequential to others, but even though I don’t drink or ride anymore just being able to see people free to do these things makes a difference.

        I’m beginning to notice more and more occasions of a car pulled over on the side of the road with half a dozen squad cars surrounding it. A couple sitting in the grass while their car is ransacked. That stuff begins to wear thin after a while. If the car and it’s contents aren’t worth at least $50k, there’s no point in bothering to sue anyone to get anything back. It seems pointless to work so hard only to have what little I have stolen by the Federales.

        There’s that old saying, “you made your bed now you have to sleep in it”, but the fact is I don’t have to sleep in it. I can split, but the only reason I can do this is because I’ve never really put down roots anywhere. I’ve become accustomed to wandering. I have a place I can call home and it doesn’t cost me anything to live here or to leave it empty for months or even years at a time.

        You’d be surprised how quickly you can slap a lean to greenhouse up against your house when you’re hungry. A few years ago, I discovered that almost half of the weeds in my back yard are edible. I learned this watching youtube videos online. I’m really about as inept and incompetent as anyone can be, but when something breaks in my house or my car, I type my problem into the search box on youtube, and usually the problem is fixed before the end of the day.

        • Hey, Shnark!

          Li’l clarification: When you say no property tax, you mean personal property tax, right? -as opposed to real estate property tax- which FL does have.

          The rest of your post: Sounds like I wrote it!

          It bothers me too, when I see others being oppressed for some non-crime, even if it’s something that I don’t/never have/never will do- because if they can do it them for whatever little trivial personal vices they may practice, it’s just a matter of time until they do criminalize the things that we do, too!

          Plus, the more things that are “illegal”, the more excuses they have to scrutinize all, and consider you a possible suspect- e.g. if you’ve never taken a drink in your life, you’ll still be a potential drunk driver, and subject to checkpoints and sobriety checks, etc.

          And same here: In this little hick county, you would virtually never even see a pig-mobile. Now we’re starting to see ’em. Just recently, I’m starting to see people pulled over, too. I told my neighbors that this would be a consequence of the county going wet, as it recently did. More “traffic enforcement” to snag those lucrative DWIs…more money needed to pay for that enforcement.

          Every month, it gets a step closer to being like the place I moved here to get away from…. There is nowhere in this country where one can get away from it. Every state and county, the modus operandi is exactly the same, and it’s to the point now where it’s been extended to the most remote and smallest places.

          Seatbelts and kiddie safety seats became the law a few years after I moved here. No one in my county bothered observing it. Now? Checkpoints, “because the county has low compliance rates” or “How to fleece innocent people who were used to having some freedom”.

          • Hey Nunzio, I didn’t say there is no property tax in Florida, I tell them that I don’t pay property taxes in Florida. Florida residents may claim a homestead exemption which exempts them from paying anything on the first $25k on their property.

            When I was helping a friend of mine move out here, he informed me of this rule which I kept in mind as I was looking for a place to buy out here. I had been paying almost $4k in property taxes on one home back in California so not paying any property taxes looked really good to me. I bought two places out here. The first one was $30k, and the second one was $15k. I spent a couple of weeks fixing up the second one and decided that it was the better of the two, so I sold the more expensive one for a slight profit, and moved into the less expensive one and began enjoying not paying any property taxes at all. However, over the years the assessor’s office has been steadily raising the valuation so I’m starting to pay some money now. The realtors are saying that my place is worth close to $60k which is motivating me to put it on the market. I’m fluffing it up some more now because my plan is to split down to the Caribbean for a while, and if I decide to stay down there, I can just call my realtor and have her put the place on the market without having to come back.

            I think there’s something to be said for the prepper who is out in the boonies. They may be able to weather the shit storm if it comes to that. Someone miles away from anything probably isn’t going to be on the government thug’s radar. I thought of hunkering down for a while, but that doesn’t seem quite as appealing as hanging out with like minded people outside the prison so planning my escape became my plan A. Plan B is to hunker down if I don’t get out in time. I think I finally got my priorities straight, and it just makes more sense to me.

            • Ah, I see, Shnark! I had heard about that FL homestead exemption…but forgot about it.

              Yeah, that’s America for ya: Improve your property and increase it’s value, and they get to take more from you…..

              Only $4K in property taxes in CA.? Man…. My friend in NY who recently moved to FL- had a 3 bedroom run-of-the-mill house average house, on a 40×100′ lot, and was paying almost $12K a year…

              Can you IMAGINE? No wonder they pushed for all the women to work outside the home. You live in one of these places, your wife has to have a job just to pay the property taxes!

              But they can’t see the shackles!

    • AF, I didn’t own anything and lived a very meager life till I was 39- Trying to exist where i was in NY, and to save just enough to get out of there; all while not getting entangled in their system- which is pretty hard to do in NY- even in the 80’s and 90’s.

      I got out and got got my place here, and hacked out a nice place out of an old cow pasture and some woods. Everything here I built with my own two hands, and no one else touched. You would think it is my place, as I bought the land and the building materials and put the labor into it…but it is really Uncle’s, and he just lets me use it as long as I pay him a yearly rent- otherwise, he gets to take what is supposedly mine, and sell it to someone else.

      I won’t be walking away. I’ll be selling what I have, reaping a profit from the improvements I’ve made, and in-turn, taking that value and trading it for even more, somewhere where I will enjoy living even more, because there will be no chemtrails or DEC or property value administrator…..

      Better to trade what I now have for something of like kind and even more quantity, with a higher degree of freedom, than to sit here and lose all freedom, and likely any value I have built here. How lonmg will it be before civil asset forfeiture spreads to include real estate? It already does in some places! How long before they condemn our land for a new highway or pipeline, and give us a fifth of what it’s worth? It’s happening all around us already!

      How long before the DEC or EPA or FEMA declares that we are in an area that is environmentally sensitive, or not fit for human habitation, and forces us to walk away with nothing? How long before we have to flee in the night like the Cuban in the 1950’s who owned 25 acres, or the white South African farmers today?

      Wait for it to get to that point, and then you just walk away- with nothing. OF you can even walk away.

      • Nunz,

        I’ve done the same thing myself, did my level best to carve out patch of land and live as free as I possibly can in this day and age in AmeriKa.

        Regardless, you are right, neither one of us own anything, we’re just serfs squatting on the Massa’s plantation.

        I may just stay and “meet” them at the gate when they come.

        • AF, I’ll tell ya, it’s been a great odyssey- we’re like a scaled-down version of the pioneers. I’m looking forward to doing it again, only where I can procure more freedom.

          This stuff’ll keep ya young. I see so many guys my own age who are like old men. I like stability- but sometimes being able to settle on one’s lees is a bad thing.

          Hey…you’re assuming that they wont have out-lawed gates before you meet them there! 😉

          • Nunzio, when I first started reading these comments, I thought yours were a bit “out there”, but the longer I read these comments, the more I see what you’re saying. Your comments are quite motivational. I’ve been working to get my place fixed up to get the most $ when I think it’s time to sell, but reading your comments makes me want to just scram, and leave it for the next guy to clean up the mess.

            • Thanks, Shnark!

              I see myself as the old stalwart conservative- but others tend to see me as “out there” and as “a character” for some reason. I guess it depends on one’s frame of reference and knowledge of what’s going on around them. I really am very conservative- but at the same time, I’m the guy who will get ‘er done…no matter what.

              There are a few of us like that on here- the poindexters classify us on a Meyers-Briggs index as “INTJ/Mastermind” personality types.

              Yes, I know what you mean about just up and going!

              I wanted to do that when I lived in NY- and had little holding me there- but i did want to be sure that when I made the leap, that I did have all my ducks in a row, because a major lifestyle change, even when it’s overwhelmingly for the better, and a fulfillment of a long-time dream, can still be very stressful, so you do want to try and make it as easy on yourself as possible.

              I’m hoping that when I’m ready to go, the real estate prices here will peak again- but there’s no telling, and I won’t let it stop me, even if they’re in the terlit- even though that will be 70% of my bankroll.

              I know in ’08, when prices everywhere else crashed, RE zoomed up, here. I paid $1100 an acre for my land…but in 2010 the place across the street went for over $4K an acre. But now prices are back down here- but sales are slowing and prices are dropping in the top markets again, just like before the last crash…so another one is immanent.

              Oh, I haven’t had time to comment on some of your other posts yet- but re: The Philippines: If only the US military wasn’t permanently involved there, i think I’d be quite happy there. Same deal with Panama- that could at the least be a good place to set up a home base from which to explore serious prospects (And I guess for that purpose, it’d be O-K…but if the US wasn’t so involved, I could see it as a long-term, possible permanent thing.). I’d really like to at least take some time to experience Central America- but ultimately, I think my place will be in Oceania. (Hard to access and explore…but that’s what likely keeps it good!- Same deal with where I am now- off the beaten path; out of the way; hard to get to from the major cities=keeps the riff-raff out!).

              And by-the-way, Shnark: I really appreciate your input, experience and encouragement! Except for the occasional run-across an expat, or a few rare prospects who are also seeking to leave, I’ve always been pretty much all alone in this.

              • My situation was different Nunzio, in that when I moved from California to Florida, I didn’t really make any preparations or do a whole lot of thinking about it. I was helping a friend move, and he suggested that I look at property out here. We also sat around and talked about what the government was doing to screw up California. He was able to simply point out what was going on and how I could see it, and sure enough as he talked all of these examples from my own life began to emerge into my consciousness. When I got out to Florida, it was like shooting fish in a barrel except that I couldn’t decide which one to grab. There were deals everywhere. It was right after the crash so houses were dirt cheap out here. I could have bought a few dozen for the price of just one of my places out in California.

                What I noticed from that experience was that after buying a couple of places out here, it didn’t make any sense to keep my places back in California so there was nothing else to do except just sell off my stuff in California, and move out here. My problem now is that I’m spending too much time thinking about it, and not enough time just doing it.

                Out of the way places are the way to go, and I think you have the right idea looking at Oceana/Micronesia/ etc.. It’s too far away for me at the moment, but I think I can find something similar down in the Caribbean. When a hurricane goes through there and wipes out the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico, and the US is inept at doing much of anything that’s what I look for as a place to get away to. That’s my first destination and from there I can jump over to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, the Caymans, Dominica, Turks and Caicos, etc. I figure I can find a better boat while I’m down there and then make the cruise over to Oceana if I still want to.

                I’m in a similar situation as you in that I don’t have a few million sloshing around in some trust fund so I’m not even looking at property to purchase. I’ve never been into renting so my best bet is to combine it all into a boat. Then I’m just looking at food and gas as my primary expenses. No rent or utilities makes up for any other high prices, and some of these places actually have lower prices than in the US.

                The more expats you talk to, the easier it becomes to see it as a “no-brainer”, and the more confident you become in making your decision to leave.

                The irony for me is that my initial foray into this was just as a vacation, and then I started growing my own food, then after a few power outages, I decided that I wanted running water when the power went out so I’m basically off grid now when the power goes out. All of this made me aware of the fact that living independent of the utilities and government benefits, is a better way to live. I discovered that I have a lot of things in common with preppers even though my goals had nothing to do with prepping. I was just looking for convenience and a better quality of life.

                • Oh, Shnark, that is So awesome how you just sort of fell into FL!!!!!! I love it when stuff like that happens! And funny thing is, you often find things that way that beat by far anything you can find if you’re actually looking for them! It’s like some kind of unwritten law of probability or something!

                  Ah yes, I used to dream about doing the boat thing when I was young. It’s really a great idea, that allows you to go wherever you want to; bring “home” with you, and just take your time and enjoy the journey for as long as need be- or maybe just keep traveling between parts of the world that you like. If I were up to doing it single-handedly, and didn’t fear my patience running out on the first crossing, I might just do the same!

                  When I was a kid, I used to dream about getting a big barge and living on it in the middle of the ocean! Grow my own food on it; fish; make it my own little island. It’s truly the only way we’d ever live in this life free from government.

                  Now the Caribbean…. Man! If that place were only free of it’s various governments! I remember reading an account of a photographer’s exploration of Tortuga back in the 70’s. Sounded like a good but lightly-trafficked place- at least back then- and to a c. 15 year-old me at the time. I should dig up some recent info on it just for the heck of it.

                  Ah, I’m just looking for a place where I can live on the land, without having my way of life outlawed. I can live here in the US on practically nothing…and live nicely at that- imagine how much more so in some little off-beat place!

                  Oceania’s pretty much a one-way trip. But so was Gilligan’s Island….but if I could find THAT, I’d be in paradise!!!

  12. Anyone who isn’t preparing to make their escape right now, is no different than the sheep who mindlessly get in line to get their new papers in order. We have all taken the mindset of the career criminal who can’t live life outside the prison walls.

    We have opted for convenience over freedom; bread and circuses over a liberty we never really took advantage of in the first place. Most people rarely venture beyond their closest Walmart Supercenter or Costco.

    All this talk of losing freedom means nothing to them. They sit back in their lazy boys with remote in hand clicking through 795 channels of cable narcotics. With all of those choices at one’s fingertips, how is it possible to even want more freedom than that?

    When I think of the typical American, I think of that kid’s grandparents in the original version of Willie Wonka and the Chocolate factory. The kid has to plead with his grandfather to get out of bed to go with him to the chocolate factory and the old geezer has been lounging in bed for so long he can barely walk anymore. He doesn’t even want to walk. It’s a chore to even be able to move around

    Most people either don’t care, or would rather lament the sad state of affairs in this country. Let’s all have one great big bitch fest and get it over with, shall we? Look on the bright side, the government is attempting to make this transition to perpetual slavery as painless as possible. It reminds me of the story of Temple Grandin. She ‘s the woman who discovered a way to calm cattle on their way to slaughter. When the cattle are upset and disoriented, they tend to bump into each other and injuries cost the slaughterhouse money. So they adopted her strategy of orienting them all in the same direction so that they were better able to calmly merge into single file prior to their demise. Does anyone else see any similarities?

    We’re all just calmly complaining as the noose tightens around our necks, and this is all due to the comforts of modern living, and our technological distractions. But the big reason is that we’ve been repeatedly told that everyone outside the US wants to get in to the US, and most who haven’t been outside the US believe this nonsense. It is only the poorest of the poor who want to get into the US, and it is only the poorest of the poor who are left in the US. That 1% at the top already have their places outside the US. They can jet out of this artificially sweetened genetically modified cesspool in their private jets whenever they please.

    I used to fly commercially and quite frequently until I started getting sick after almost every flight. The TSA was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. The VIPR teams have already been to the local social security dept. frisking senior citizens and requiring that they present their ID to enter so it’s only a matter of time before I won’t be able to drive across the country in my own car.

    Screw it. What good is it having my sweet ride if I can’t drive it? Then it’s only an idol to admire enthroned within the inner sanctum of my garage. There are people who are taking the transoms of old wooden boats and refurbishing them and selling them to old fishermen who then make them the centerpiece of their living rooms. These things can cost about the same as a new boat, and the owner will never have to sand it down and paint new stain on it either. I see the same thing happening with car buffs as they realize they can’t drive around in their classic cars anymore without going to jail.

    A friend of mine drove her mustang down to Cozumel 25 years ago; she lives there. I thought she was crazy to do such a thing; not so much anymore. A lot of expats are getting the same idea probably because they prefer being able to drive their dream cars and motorcycles around without being hassled by law enforcement.

    • Hi Schnarkle,

      I agree with most of what you’ve written – except for the where to go part. I have been pondering this for years and haven’t found an option that seems better – unless the criteria is physical existence vs. not (as in the case of people fleeing Nazi Germany or Cambodia under Pol Pot).

      It’s especially problematic for people who aren’t in their 20s or 30s. Starting over again in your 40s or 50s is daunting; the loss of friends/family – trying to rebuild, without the time you had when you were in your 20s and 30s…

      My point is, I have come to understand why so many people who saw what was coming in Germany and Russia and other such places never left those places.

      • Hi Eric, I honestly don’t have any way to comprehend why you think there are no better options outside the US. There are literally billions of people who have no desire whatsoever to go anywhere near the US. it is only those who know how to live on slave wages, and can’t get employment where they live that are willing to make that trek. Have you looked at Chile? Chile is famous for one of the few places in the world where anyone can fly in and be employed or employing others the next day.

        It’s a frame of mind that prevents us from letting go of our stuff. Our stuff gives us comfort. It’s familiar. All anyone really needs to do is take a short vacation outside the US. Take a week off in Costa Rica, and relax. The first thing that popped into my head while I was down in Mexico was that I wished I didn’t have so much valuable stuff back home. I then began working on getting rid of it all so that thought wouldn’t pop into my head every again. If you can’t afford to take a vacation, you really should think about why that is the case. Peasants in central and south America without a dime to their name can get up to the US and work for slave wages then turn right around and return to live like kings. You have the advantage of already possessing the financial resources to run down there and live like a king. The hitch is that we don’t want to part with our possessions, or leave the familiarity of our prison cell. The key to unlocking that is to realize that it’s nothing more than a thought in our head that is preventing us from walking out of this oh so comfortable prison cell.

        I talk to people all the time who rave about life in Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. The cost of living is next to nothing, and the chances of being black balled because of your political views are nothing in comparison to this place. I can’t fly anymore so that’s a bit too far for me to go by boat, but I’m working on it. Central America and the Caribbean are fine for now.

        • Exactly, Shnarkle!

          I have known several people who have moved to Chile- +/-10 years ago, and their only regret is that they didn’t go sooner.

          Even places that I would not want to go,….like communist Laos. A friend of a friend moved there and married a local girl c. 25 years his junior. Lives on a small (few hundred dollars a moth) social security disability check from here- has a nice place out in the country; gets frsh locally grown food in town, and does what he wants. Here? He’d be homeless.

          Have no idea what prompted him to choose Laos- but even THAT is freer than here in day-to-day life, and offers a better quality of life than what can be had here for most.

          Maybe Eric has some really special friends and fambly members- but I know, for me, other than a little mundane pleasant distraction, I really don’t “get anything” from those whom I know in real life- whether long-time friends, or family. None of them “get it”. They don’t care about liberty. They have all drunk the Kool-aid; they comply. They’re more likely to be my enemies in the near future, than they are confidantes; they all have kids or parents or brothers who are or were mercenaries or cops, or on the path to becoming such. You see the look on their faces any time you mention the abuses of the state or criticize their badged brethren- even if you are talking to them on the phone!

          My best friend’s brother works for DHS. My best friend gleefully will comply with any dictate without so much as a complaint.

          These are jesters; the familiar; those who talk to us because they already know us, but with whom we have little in common, and who will be of no use in procuring freedom- but who are often a detriment to it.

          Only one I care about is my 93 year-old mother, because she’s my mother and depends on me- or I’d be gone already.

          Rebuild? Ha! You sell your place and your possessions here. In your new digs, that money will buy you much more than you had here.

          Heck, I’m 56 and I’m eager to start over, because considering what I’ve learned since the last time, I’ll be able to do it better and faster now! Plus, I wont be on as tight of a budget, since the money from here will go a lot further there.

          I only wish that my mother was younger, so she could experience this too (and then we could leave NOW!).

          I mean really, how many people get to start over and have a new beginning in a meaningful way? I’m lucky- I did it once already. It was amazing, and I’m still reaping amazing benefits from it; Getting to do it again on an even bigger scale, with bigger rewards, is just ….well….something that I’m sure many men would die to have the opportunity to pursue- but ultimately can’t, because of the kids and the canklesaurus and the mortgage…. We are in an enviable position, having the knowledge, ability and opportunity to make the break…. And I don’t know about Eric, but I don’t want to be that guy at 75 or 80 regretting not having done what I knew i should have done when I had the chance to do it. I have no regrets in my life…and I’d like to keep it that way, ’cause I’ve known a few older guys who died after having spent years regretting what they should’ve done but never did; and we are in a far worse position, because now we have this all-consuming police state to deal with, and we KNOW that it’s getting exponentially worse by the MINUTE, and that there is no hope of continuing to enjoy any freedom nor the things we love, here.

          Moving, you may be giving up some of the familiar things; some things you love. But they all have equal or better counterparts available where we are free. If we stay, we are going to soon lose those things anyway…but there will be no equal or better replacements…just emptiness and loss, as we become neutralized.

          • After everyone who wants to and can afford to leave is gone, the reduction in demand will make everything cheaper here than it was wherever they went. That is the way the free market has always worked.

            • Nope, Vonu. They’re replacing us faster than we’re leaving; and with people who typically have 4, 5 or 6 kids, to make up for the now <1 birthrate of even those who stay. Hence the sanctuary cities and states…..and the refusal of the overlords to secure US borders (Funny, the ONE thing they become Libertarian about!). Lords can't be lords without serfs. They're making sure that they have an ample supply of serfs; and although it's destroying America and Europe, it's ridding many other countries from whence the new serfs come, of their trash- 'cause generally, only the lowest peasants, with no principles come here.

          • Let me know when/where you find a good place. Maybe the wife will be able to walk more than 30 feet by then. Of course she’d have to be installed in some care facility while I moved. That wouldn’t be hard on her at all and I’d probably get to bury her fairly quickly with that much stress.

            Don’t know what I’d do with the cats or CK. Can you buy a seat on the airplane for a dog?

            Of course, by the time we got square with the IRS we’d lack fourteen dollars having 27 cents.

            Sing it Roger.

        • Hmm, looks like I need to visit Chile on my next vacation. I had sort of written Chile off because I had read that things are no longer cheap there.

      • Ya gotta be realistic sometimes. Sure, this country sucks in a lot of ways, and the noose tightens a little more each day. I am very much afraid for the future of my kids and grandchildren, but I’m pushing 70. The wife still has cancer, I’ve got heart problems, where the fuck am I gonna go? All I can do is lament the good ol’ days, hope it doesn’t get too intolerable before I die, and pray to just be left alone until I do. My kin will likely have to deal with this, but hey, what can I do about that? I tried to teach them to always question authority, don’t trust “the man”, and to be independent. Both my sons have the same feelings that I do, so I guess that’s the best that I could hope for. As for myself, I’m too old to fight, too tired to run, so I’ll just have to suck it up and take whatever comes. But then again, my life has still been better than 99.9 percent of the people who ever walked this earth.

        • I’m also figuring that at this point the way I’ll “check out” is feet first. I used to think the worst wouldn’t hit the fan until I was gone. Now I’m not so sure.

          A lot of places don’t even want you once you reach a certain age unless you’re independently wealthy – they are not really interested in old farts with current or probable near-term medical needs and no immediate source of income emigrating to their countries.

        • Very good points, VZ!

          Some, such as yourself, really don’t have the option. That should make those of us who are blessed with having the option, truly appreciate being in the positions we are in, and make us ponder all the more soberly the possibility of availing ourselves of those options, while we can.

          Things can change in an instant. We could wake up tomorrow, and things could be radically different. Just look at 9-11… In an instant, something happened, and the Patriot Act just happened to be sitting around… (Funny how that worked out, eh?).

          Any one of us could end up in jail tomorrow, for a crime we didn’t commit, or some non-crime we did commit, which *they* now call a crime; and spend everything we have in an effort to get out, which may or may not be successful.

          We could be the victims of civil asset forfeiture- especially those of us who own our places free and clear.

          And you also make another great point: Most of us have been very blessed to have lived the lives we have. To be where we are now (intellectually), knowing what we know, AND to have lived through the most violent period in human history, in the belly of the Beast, and to have come through with our consciences [hopefully] intact, and having enjoyed decades of very pleasant times- availing ourselves of the good things which are extant, while having avoided the evil (Well, not poor Eight…he got dumped on too many times…).

          But the things we’ve been privileged to see and experience; the overview of history and of the present world we have been able to see- something which former generations have not had the privilege of seeing as we do.

          The luxuries and conveniences we have had- even though often through the auspices of the authoritarian state, have still benefitted us, and yet we have lived when it was still possible to avoid many of the negatives…

          We have truly enjoyed some very unique privileges, and have in many cases, led charmed lives. We are living on the downside of the pinnacle of society- and now are watching the good things being destroyed. I am seeking to preserve the opportunity to still be able to enjoy many of those good things in my life for as long as I can.

          That communist cocksucker Andrew Cuomo said America was never that great; well it was for many of us, until pricks like him and all of the other politicians and academics who truly hate all of those great things, ruined it.

  13. At one time in my life, a man’s ONLY legal I.D. was his cursive signature on paper. Now the public schools have dropped even teaching cursive writing altogether. Doe this look like a pattern to you? In fact, “education” has become obsolete, and it is all now a matter of indoctrination and assimilation. Does that sound familiar as well? Essentially we have become digestive material for the “homeland”, and those of us acting independently are all that is left in the way of complete loss of personal identity. I have always been a non-conformist, since the birth of my ancestors which I can personally trace back to a time before this country even existed. Not that it matters to the PTB, mind, you. When I am deceased, I will not be missed for long, and that is just the plain truth of it.Hopefully my children will retain some sense of personal identity, but that is up to them to decide.

      • Blank, I asked this young woman at a truck stop something, don’t even remember what it was, maybe directions to some place in town. She didn’t understand so I just showed her the piece of paper somebody gave me. She looked at it and said “I don’t do cursive”. That’s when I realized how shitty the schools really were.

        I almost said something impolite like “You’re shitting me ha ha”. Then I realized she wasn’t shitting me.

        I was on the way home from a fishing trip 20 years or so ago and stopped at a convenience store for gas. I had this kid about 10 years old walk up to me, very concerned and say “Mister, that’s gas you’re putting in there and it says “Diesel Only”. Nice kid. I thanked him and told him not to worry, the diesel was gone and it had a big old rat motor in it. He didn’t reply. I could see him trying to process what I said. He probably went home and did a search for “rat motor”.

        The guy inside at the register was young, 18-20, so when I got my ice and beer and gas and whatever else, he rang it up but couldn’t make change and got so confused I would have come out with about half the cost of what I’d bought. So I carefully, and slowly, counted out what he’d given me back in change and in the end, he needed to make change and I had to tell him how much because I didn’t have the exact change. It was one of those moments when you can only ask yourself how much money this guy was losing for the store owner…..or maybe not. Hell, I might have been the only person not overcharged that day. It made me wonder what the difference was between him and the young kid. He obviously didn’t understand math and the school system had not been competent enough to teach him, not that it should have needed to since his parents(parent?)should have taught him at some point. Now I know why fast food registers had a picture of the product on the key. Probably “monkey see, monkey do” doesn’t pay very well.

        The best thing I can say about the Millenials is most are courteous. Went to Wally and the Dollar Tree last Sat. Both young men cashiers referred to me as “Boss”. I get that a lot in the patch too. It’s preferable to ‘hey, you old fart’.

        • Back in the day, there was this thing we used to do called “Making change”. The scam is to ask to make change before your first transaction is completed. While the register is still open, if the clerk goes for it, you just made yourself a cool $10 to $20, if not more. With these young kids who can’t comprehend what’s going on, the returns rise exponentially, hence yet another reason to get rid of cash, and cashiers as well. Better get used to the idea of never working again because you’re all about to become obsolete.

          • Shnark, is that “obsolete” a reference to the classic Twilight Zone episode The Obsolete Man (Starring Birdshits Meredith as the title character)?

            For anyone who may not be familiar, you MUST see it:
            https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rooq7

            (Lots more to say to you, Shnark…but I DO have to get some work done- I wasted half of this week already, having a severe case of poison oak… My face was swollen so bad i looked like a monster!)

            • Good catch Nunzio, I ran into Birdshit Merrydeath in Rome not all that long after he’d finished up playing the Penguin on Bat Man. I was staying in some dive hotel just down from the Spanish Steps, and he was staying in some really swanky place; I think it was The Excelsior. I was weaned on The Twilight Zone; used to scarf down popcorn, and watch back to back episodes every day with my buddies.

              I’m also kind of busy, but taking a short breather to collect what’s left of my wits.

      • Ha! Reg, if you have a standard tranny, you could park in Detroit without an alarm and not have to worry- your car ain’t going nowhere! And soon, writing in cursive will be like having a secret code.

        These kids who don’t know cursive- how do they sign their names? Guess they don’t need to sign, since everything’s electronic now- but if they do- what do they do, print? Put an X?

        “Do you even know cursive?”
        “I know ‘hell’, ‘damn”,…..”

    • gtc, real edumacation is the enemy of tyranny- so you KNOW what is proffered in the pooblik skools, or any skool which meets their standards, will accomplish the diametric opposite of education.

      Where I originally come from- Long Island, NY. people pay among the highest property taxes in the entire country and justify it because “they have the best schools”. LOL…yeah, they’re paying for the state’s agenda to be foisted on their own kids- and it works very well: These kids in turn are content to remain in and be zealous advocates of what is probably now the most tyrannical state in the US; and the metro area with highest taxes, lowest quality of life; highest cost of living, and least freedom of anywhere. It’s a self-perpetuating system, fueled in perpetuity by it’s victims.

  14. They can tag us, fingerprint us, eavesdrop & try to scare us, but until they remove our mil pattern rifles, there’s little more they can do.
    They MUST achieve disarmament prior to the big, coercive moves they crave for us.
    Don’t forget that even if the government convinced all members of the USMC (that I’m a veteran of), Army, Navy, Air Force, FBI, Police & Blackwater to abuse us, that’s about 1% of the amount of armed citizens…
    We are many, they are few, and they know it.

    • Hi Dave,

      That is true – in re the number of people who are armed – but the depressing reality is that the public by and large accepts the incremental tyranny. America today is a literal police state compared with the America of 1998. Just 20 years later, we find ourselves living under a regime which openly practices torture as policy, dragoons people into the night without charge, relieves them of property without guilt of any crime having been established in court. We are compelled to submit to felony inmate processing in order to fly commercially; the government forces us to send money to private, for-profit corporations for services we do not wish to buy. And now we will be compelled to carry internal passports.

      The Fabian approach works. People today tolerate – sigh and accept – a degree of tyranny that would have been viewed as preposterous – not credible – if predicted in a bad Stallone sci-fi movie of the ’90s.

      People have accepted the TSA and the ACA. I very much doubt the will not accept a law requiring gun owners to buy insurance… which insurance will be expensive enough to debar most people from legally owning guns and so a very effective way to disarm the majority of the population without ever passing a new “gun control” law.

      • The last stats I saw on “terrorism” was 20 acts in the US and properties. I queried a lot of sites who all agree the actual chance of being a victim of terrrrror(shrub)was about 5,000 times less likely than getting struck by lightning. Lightning, now there’s a big old boogeyman and something’s got to be done. I want to puke every time a cop says terrorism or similar. Shit Ronnie, THEY ARE the terrorists.

        • Hi Eight,

          Meanwhile, cops kill about 1,000 people each year – so your chances of being murdered by a cop are much higher than your risk of being a victim of “terror.”

    • Dave, we are many now and they are few now. And yet no one is stopping them now. And no one is going to stop them in 2020 either.

      Because there are too many “we” who are more than happy being cattle. Guerrilla warfare (that is what we are discussing here) can only succeed with the help of the population via “hearts and minds”. And “They” know that they are less than one generation away from a populace with no hearts and no minds. Generation Cattle. This raised-as-veal generation will be more than happy to help their owners cull the herd of cows “diseased” with Free Range Fever. What we are witnessing really is the deliberate destruction of free grazing buffalo, to be replaced with penned cattle. Maybe a few of us old buffaloes will make a last gasp horned charge but the cattle will not join us in a stampede. Two different breeds with one being hunted to extinction.

      • Skunk, the vast majority of cattle in this country are quite content to never venture beyond their own city limits. All of these added rules and regulations are only for those who are currently free to travel, and enjoy traveling. I suspect quite a few of them are going to make sure that they’re outside the pen when these laws go into effect. Oh, I can’t get back into the cage? Oh well. Better to be outside and free than caged and looking for a way out. The rest will simply comply.

    • they do not have to disarm any body being gun owners the biggest cowards in world history. it will go down the most heavily armed people ever to exist was robbed and genocided without firing a shot. main reason is yellow gun owners worship cops and think they will save them. also they think the 2nd amendment is about what primers to use target shooting etc. and unwilling because of cowardice to admit the 2nd ONLY purpose is to take down an oppressive govt. we are long past that point

      • Unfortunately I agree with this. New York, California, Connecticut and Massachusetts have already been disarmed of military-pattern rifles. Not a shot was fired in anger, not a single politician feared for his life, not a single riot occurred.

        Australia, Britain, and Canada have also been disarmed of military pattern rifles. Those countries are full of tough, rural white men — and again, not a single riot, not a single assassination, not a single blockade. They all lined up and handed ’em in like the sheep that they are.

        I’d LOVE to believe that, just like in 1775, we’d all line up at Concord Bridge and shoot the bastards when they come for our guns. But recent history shows that the pathetic, fat, white male slob will easily surrender his freedom so long as he as football and porn on cable TV and a refrigerator full of beer to pour into his fat gut. Washington and Jefferson and Jackson and Lee would be disgusted, frankly, if they could see what a pussy the American man has become.

        Now… if you were to try to ban gay sex, abortion, Netflix, or cell phones, THEN you’d see riots and the politicians would cower in fear…

        • Hi X,

          I agree as well – unfortunately. The irony is that “conservatives” mistrust government – it’s the supposed bedrock principle of “conservatism” – yet not only trust armed government workers but reverence them.

        • Recently a federal judge ruled the mag law in Ca. wasn’t constitutional, it was de facto and he refused to criminalize millions of guns owners who had magazines of more than 10 rounds. Go someplace really quiet and you can still hear the echoes of Pelosi and Schumer screaming…..sorry mofo’s they are.

          What I find amazing is all the pols who love all these laws and getting them passed.

          Recently the guvnor and AT in Tx. both said they’d support “red law” such as Florida and some other states passed, negating the 2nd amendment, completely un-Constitutional.

          They backed out of that almost immediately being the sorry back stabbing Republicans they are(this is not an endorsement of Democrats) after Texans showed them in force what the next election would hold for them if they tried to pass such egregious legislation.

          But the shit never ends and I’ll cap this with an almost direct quote of a tweet by a twit, the oranged-haired one in the offal office: I say we go after the guns first and worry about due process later. Oh yeah, he’s big on freedom.

        • X, you paint the perfect picture of people getting the government that they deserve. And that is why there is no fighting it. We’re the tiny minority. The others, and their government are the monolithic mass; and although they are fat and weak and stupid and inept and immoral, their sheer mass will ensure their survival, until their cancer spreads so far that it utterly consumes them and everything around them, including us.

        • Anon, never mind that SPQ guy. He’s a provocateur who shows up here once in a while to tell everybody that they are chickenshit if they don’t shoot a cop, or something like that.

          That’s the kind of crap that can get a site shut down. Better not to even respond to him.

          • I was just being sarcastic of course. He’s no right to call anyone a coward unless he can suggest a better course of action.

            • Yep, that’s what I say. I’ve come to be suspicious of that kind of rhetoric on discussion sites after having been participating since the old BBS days starting around ’95.

              Most discussions of infringement of rights and federal overreach seem to attract commenters who start up with all that talk of shooting cops, etc. That’s pretty much all they have to say, so it makes them kind of obvious.

    • Dave, they have already established this Orwellian system in full view of, and with full cooperation of all of those armed citizens. Most of those armed citizens would sooner use their arms against you and I and in service to Uncle- rather than against Uncle and his armed mercenaries, whom most hold sacred.

      And when you refine the numbers and actually only count those who actually have arms which are equal to or superior to what Uncle’s mercenaries have; and have sufficient ammo; and most of all, have the support of their neighbors en-mass (T’aint gonna happen in a culturally, ideologically, and philosophically diverse society) it boils down to a few lone hold-outs who are easy pickin’s for the highly trained and well-armed forces of Uncle.

      Your fellow veterans, who were busy doing Uncle’s dirty-work abroad- essentially doing to residents of sovereign nations what Uncle is in the process of doing to us- are now largely the ones pointing the guns at us civilians, or venerating those of their brethren who do- and the support which THEY have (essentially, every family in America has at least one member who is/has been a member) dwarfs the few who would fight the shackles of tyranny- as can be seen by the fact that they have sat on their hands thus far…..

      • The problem is all the armed costumed thugs today willingly signed up for that duty, unlike my generation that was enslaved (calling it drafted doesn’t change the reality) to fight Uncle’s unconstitutional wars. Even if enough of us could stand together against the tyranny we’re way outgunned, nobody I know can stop a tank, which they’ll happily use to blow up your home with you in it, a la Waco. I’m prepared to take out as many as possible before they get me, being old makes that an easy decision, the rest of the sheeple deserve what’s coming.

        • Mike, it just shows how education has changed in the 50 years since I/we went to school. Of course, I could get a job and wasn’t living in my parent’s basement after high school because I couldn’t support myself.

          There is the feeling these days of entitlement too, something that didn’t exist back then to any significant degree.

          Hell, I spent the last 4 years working in the patch and will be back there when the wife gets well. Being at the house and unemployed isn’t my cup of tea.

      • nunzio you are 100% right about civilians with guns would rather turn them on those seeking freedom. I have been in fist fights in gun stores and never lost being it is easy to beat fat cowards who savagely attacked cause I brought up the real meaning of the 2nd and what cowards exist. that is the ONLY time I ever saw aggression out of gun owners

  15. I have a TX driver’s license but spend time in AZ. I had an AZ resident card and went for the ‘Travel ID’ which will be a requirement in 2020. What I ended up with was an eye check and an AZ ‘enhanced’ driver’s license without them ever asking me to surrender my existing (TX) license. My understanding is that you can also use a US Passport card to board domestic fights which also allows crossing into Canada & Mexico. Bottom line is they own you, it’s just a matter of what plastic they know you by.

    • Hi Damon,

      Yes, they do own us – and my hope is that this reality is finally becoming clear to more people. We are the chattel property of others, those others being those who control the government as well as our neighbors who vote to empower those in the government to abuse us on their behalf.

      The situation being analogous to Mistress in the parlor giving her proxy to the Overseer, to whip the slaves in order to compel them to work the fields so she can eat corn for dinner.

      • Trouble is, Eric, those around us who do realize that we are chattel property of others, through the auspices of the skools and the media, have been led to believe that those others are those who make more money than themselves- i.e. de ebil “rich” people.

        They see government as their lord and protector, whom they petition to take more from those “greedy” rich men, to give to them, so they can live for free, and have others pay to raise their sprogs…

        The fact that a government powerful and immoral enough to rob the most productive classes (or anyone) will naturally be in complete charge of everyone, including themselves and their sprogs, is lost on them- or simply not a matter of concern, as long as they are the beneficiaries of the redistributed wealth- or rather the scraps that are left, after Uncle Robin Hood takes his 90% cut.

        It’s all been worked out; there will be no mass rebellion. Here we are: No-knock SWAT raids and civil asset forfeiture, everywhere, every day, on innocents….but 98% of the populace love the pigs. There’d be a better chance of Muslims rebelling against that Moe Hommid guy, than of Westerners rebelling against the tyranny of our governments.

        Every city in this country; every town with more than a couple of thousand people; every suburb, and even many rural areas now, people gladly tolerate several levels of government intruding in every detail of their lives- from where they put a storage shed in their yard; to their dealings with their spouses and children; to their use and disposition of property; to what they ingest. They not only tolerate it; they demand more!!!

        This is the reality of the technological-psychological police state.

        They’ve advanced it to this level, without so much as a whimper. You’ve observed the changes just since the late 90’s. You think that’s bad, you should see the stark contrast compared to the 60’s and 70’s. Or talk to a real old-timer who experienced the 30’s (before all of FDR’s commie programs started taking effect)….

        Not a whimper, from anyone. Instead, they defend Uncle and are happy to do his dirty-work, and even sacrifice their kids for that cause…but not for liberty.

        I knew a man in the 90’s, who was in his 90’s. He told me of an incident from his childhood, from 1913 (He was a Dutch kid, and he defended a Dago kid who lived in his Dutch neighborhood in NY)- 1913! It was as different a world Tahiti is from Detroit. But still, not a whimper……

        • People can’t grasp that ‘rich’ people are almost entirely just like themselves but with a little more money. Rich just makes you a bigger target if you don’t have the connections and very deep wealth to defend yourself. But that’s part of the game of manipulation being played.

          • BrentP, being rich isn’t what makes someone a bigger target. Not being able to hide one’s wealth makes one a target, and that doesn’t require money. It requires common sense. Anyone can open an offshore holding company and toss their assets into it. Wrap it up in an international trust and voila, no attorney in the world is going to bother suing you. This doesn’t require manipulation. It requires utilizing the law to one’s own advantage. Do you take deductions on your income tax return? Do you take advantage of write offs? OR do you prefer to just pay a little extra on your tax return out of some sense of affinity to the poor or patriotic duty?

            The only manipulation required is to manipulate the keys on your computer. Anyone can do it, and you don’t even need much money at all.

          • Very true, Brent!

            Again, the media, plus ignorance, paints a distorted picture for those who have very limited experience. You say “Millionaire” and they picture some tuxedo-wearing dude who lives in a mansion with servants…LOL- but of course, in reality, the average middle-aged person living in most major east and west coast metro areas today is a “millionaire”, and lives in just a plain old house on a small plot- or in a typical apartment and drives an average car, and looks no different than anyone else….but probably gets up at 5 AM and works long days, and doesn’t get to bed till near midnight….and along with others like himself, provides 80% of the tax revenue….’cause the 50% of the population who are on food stamps and getting the earned income credit (an oxymoron if ever there was one!) sure ain’t providing that revenue to pay for all the pigs and politicians, and buy all of the missiles, and provide all of that aid to Is-ra-hell and half the sand farmers, and the countries “we” want to destabilize…..

            The “rich” get royally reamed. But dontchaknow, they’re “greedy”- but the politicians who steal their money, and the entitlement crowd who demand that other’s money be given to them, aren’t….. How does THAT work out?!

            • Yep.
              I don’t think many people who are on welfare where their time is their own would switch with someone making a $100K/yr and left with $50K/yr after most taxes and spending 50hrs a week or more at work. But they sure will say that guy is privileged to justify stealing from him.

    • Hi Guerrero,

      Yes – indeed. That movie – made in the ’80s – depicted an America that was different from the Soviet Union. Today, America is the Soviet Union.

      • Eric, today amerika is worse than the Soviet Union. I do not think even the Rusky commies would have “pronoun” police and other such lunacy.

      • Yes.

        I remember being a little kid in the 1970s and people telling me that in the Soviet Union you needed an internal passport and government permission to travel from one city to another… but that WE lived in “freedom”!!!

        Yet…. fifty years later, here we are! Government passport to board a domestic flight!

    • I was really disappointed to read about these the other day, although I shouldn’t be surprised. When we travel across the country through Oklahoma, we always experience the flashing light of what I assume is a license-plate camera, within a mile or two of the border. The noose is indeed tightening.

      My kids went to “transit camp” all over Los Angeles this summer with a really cool group of homeschoolers and their teacher/guide. He took them via subway, bus, and foot to Long Beach, Hollywood, and other areas. I was thankful that they learned so much about public transportation, and their teacher, who doesn’t own a car, showed them how cool and fun it can be to cruise around L.A. via subway. Each day of camp, I took them to Union Station and they went from there, learning so much about the City of Angels. I figured the chance of a terrorist attack was about the same as the chance that it would rain on them during the June excursions (June is way outside the rainy season in SoCal, even without the probably-geo-engineered drought.). I was looking forward to sending them again next summer, but I will be seriously rethinking it with this body scanner issue. There was certainly no outcry that I heard or read about for these scanners; rather, as I told my kids, the body scanner company needed customers.

      • Hi Trish,

        Yup. In addition to Submission Training (getting people used to having their personal space and persons violated by government goons) there is of course the profit motive. The loathsome Michael Chertoff (under The Chimp) had a personal financial interest in the body scanners.

        But people just sigh and fly…

  16. I’m stuck in a profession that requires flying and allows me to work away while allowing my home and family to be situated in as free a place you can find in AmeriKa.

    For years I would refuse the porno scanners, I would not answer questions, citing my Fifth Amendment protections, I would raise as much hell as I could.

    For nothing…the very best I would get were vapid stares or outright hostility “Why you making trouble?” “Yer holding up the line”.

    So fuck it, like all the rest of the few refuseniks left, it wore me down, and now I just do the compliance shuffle with all the rest of the sheeple, keeping my head down and mouth shut, trying to get the whole unpleasant fiasco over as soon as possible. This last go around, I got my balls fondled by TSA longer than anybody other than myself had for years. Another thirty seconds I would have had to put a ring on that guy.

    Besides, why push back anyways? For who? For that same polyglot mob lined up behind me? I have nothing in common with 99 out of 100 of those people…strangers all, that I share no common bond with.

    I’d love to leave…but where to?

    Not many good choices. The few relatively free and prosperous nations on earth that would interest me have not lost their collective minds, and will not allow just anybody to wander in whenever they feel like it.

    It’s shaping up that Eastern Europe may be what saves Western Civilization.

    Hungary?

    • That’s exactly what it comes down to, Anti- Stay, you just keep moving that line in the sand further and further back, until there is nothing left; you become one of them, except for maybe a few silent thoughts of “this isn’t right”.

      There’ll be no fighting, because as you observed, those other people on the line are not with us; they are “them”.

      There are plenty of places to go. No…not “prosperous” first-world nations. They are the problem; they are what spawned the tyranny from which we seek refuge, by their collectivism which made them collectively prosperous…as opposed to being FREE nations, where people can be left alone to prosper or not, by their own actions and choices, rather than participation in a forced collective that forces all to participate in some centralized infrastructure directed by others.

      Plenty of places….mostly in the southern “hemisphere”- obscure, hard to get to… island nations with hundreds or even thousands of islands, with no local government. Still even a few places in Central and South America for the more civilized types. Really though, it’s gotten so bad here, one could even find more freedom in a communist country or military dictatorship than here-seriously- because even they largely leave you alone away from the big cities and the borders. I’m looking into the few nations which don’t belong to the UN. Mainly obscure, remote island nations. The okld commonwealth countries and Europe are done- they all seem to be inflicted by the same insanity. White people have abdicated and are soiling their own cages.

      On the other hand, you can’t just go somewhere where you will have everything you have here. only sans the tyranny. You can’t just go and expect to show up at an office and get paid and use the proceeds to buy the substance of life- because the very infrastructure which enables that was created by authoritarian-collectivism, and depends on the same for it’s perpetuation.

      Any freedom we may have in such an economy is just temporary and or an anomaly.

      To live free entails living within the natural infrastructure, and providing for ourselves from it.

      • Do;n’t come to Australia. NWO implementation is in full swing here. But we still have our Constitution, which is being used to strip elected politicians out of their terms of service due to their being classed as foreign agents. And that they are, all snuggling up to the chinks in that great polluted land in the northern hemisphere.

        • I know, to5- and it’s a damn shame! I’d be in the Outback right now (and would’ve been there longer by now, than I’ve been here!)

          Aussieland falling to the commies was one of my biggest disappointments!

      • Hi Nunzio, Anti,

        is a very interesting question – where do you go…. there is one thing im noticing more and more is that there is an image created in the west about how hard life is in “non first world” nations as you say. It seems that it is a fear being created to keep westerners from venturing out and getting away (to keep the sheep herded)….

        But is it so bad outside?? – I mean you can live life away from government meddling in many parts, and even when you do need some sort of interaction, you can do it via a fixer or a middleman of some sort with minimum disclosure of your details for a minor fee (like a premium service in the west). Food is fairly fresh and from the farm to your plate in a matter of days in most cases. Taxes may be there but there are ways around. And much of life is lived on hard cash (while in the west most dont even buy a mobile on cash).

        Yes there are issues, but there are also certainly enclaves where life is quite good, especially if you make sensible decisions in life and keep a low profile….

        I think once we stop fearing this non first world fear thats been put into us, there are a lot of options. Im in Karachi at the moment, and well – its not how it is on the media in the west. There are a lot of freedoms that one in the west can dream of…. One can remain very anonymous (despite the fact that the government under pressure from Uncle who is now uncle to the whole world, forced a national database and biometric ID cards about a decade or so ago as apparently we are all terrorist)….. I do hope however that the third world “shitholes” as presented to us in the west keep resisting these things (or at least do as half assed a job as possible to implement them)…. Maybe hope in the future may just come from one of these third world under developed countries…..

        Unfortunately for me as Ive been tagged long ago due to my work and travels, i don’t know if I can ever get out (or at least for a long time)…. but perhaps one day…….

        • Hi Ya, Nasir!

          I agree completely!

          Libertarianism is all about being left alone- and also not living in an economy where others are forced to contribute to a collective infrastructure.

          Even here in the US, in the few places where we can be relatively left alone, life is what you make of it, once you’re out of the system.

          When preparing to escape from NY, I specifically only looked at places that “poor” or low in the rankings (“Poor” = a little money goes a lot further; everything’s cheaper; taxes and such are low, because the majority simply could not afford to pay if high; and government is somewhat restrained, because they have not grown rich off the backs of the locals).

          Life here for anyone- even the lowest socio-economic classes, is better than anything one could have in NY on 10 times their income- no exaggeration. And just being able to have land, and not having to pay extortionist taxes; and being left alone to do what you want, means that you reap the rewards or consequences of your actions and choices…the way life should be.

          Small third-world countries are even more so. HERE we have the evil of the Federal government redistributing money to even the poorest places to gurantee “compliance” with various tyrannies….but in many of these third-world countries, you just don’t have all the layers of government- especially once you get away from the cities; and what little riches end up in their government’s hands, often go into the pockets of the people in those governments- so they just don’t have the huge infrastructure of sheeple control like all of the first world countries now have- and as long as the sheeple have very little to fleece, there’s no sense in them establishing such a system, and no way for them to pay for it (Except of course in bigger countries- and especially if they’re involved with the US, and or of a communist mentality).

          And no matter where you go, since there is no place on earth where government does not exist, it IS a matter to one degree or another, of flying below the radar. But here in the US, that is becoming increasingly impossible and or criminalized. The majority around us accept the tyranny, because they’ve been conditioned to it for generations now. Many other third-world places? People live like they always have, and you can’t just impose hyper-control over their lives and property. I mean, imagine if building inspectors and code-enforcement agents were suddenly to start inspecting Mongolian’s yurts!

          The media paints a false picture- but too, I really think that a lot of Libertarians who advocate the philosophical ideals of Libertarianism, are in fact not willing to give up the frills of the empire- e.g. the ability to drive 70MPH on smooth-paved roads; to live within an hour of an airport; cable TV; steady income of a 9-5 job with a pension (Which’ll probably go bust before they retire anyway….)

          We’ve been so long in this system, that we often don’t know anything else; and despite the complaints, even when the barn door is still wide open, we’d still prefer to feed at the trough, even though we know we’ll end up in the slaughterhouse, and that we’re missing out on all of the good stuff by staying in the barn; and letting the farmer groom our kids for that same slaughterhouse, and to not raise so much as a finger when they come to take us away first.

          And you raise another good point in your last paragraph, too. That is why I want to get out of here before the window of opportunity closes. I have avoided most of the ear-tagging, because I’ve been aware of this stuff since I was a kid- so other than a driver’s lic. and a socialist security number (I didn’t ask for it, but they sent it, when I was a teen), I’m a clean slate. No health insurance; no medical records; no credit applications; no job applications; no professional licenses……I’ve flown largely below the radar, because I’ve been cognizant of that radar since before I was ever an adult- and it’s getting to the point now, where they’re tightening up all the remaining loose ends, so that EVERYONE will be forced into fuill compliance- and once we cave to that, we will never be free, no matter where we go.

          What a shame that innocent people should even have to think like this……while evil people like the Clintons and Bush’s et al don’t have a care in the world……. This is the world I want to get as far away from as possible- not just for the Clintons and Bush’s et al, but for all of the people around us who keep voting for them, and who are willing to kill in their name.

          From what I know from people whom I’ve known who have moved to third world countries, at least there, there is more of a sense of “the people” KNOWING their governments are criminal, and not just complying and waving flags(unless they have a soccer team)- unlike here,. where “the people” are essentially on the side of the government, and consider people like us as their enemies.

          • Glad to know there are others out there who see it this way…. In hindsight avoiding being tagged was a smart move – impressive you were aware of this even as a teenager and avoided it – at that age I never thought much of it, happily getting my first credit card from my dad in my mid teens, and well by the nature of my work meant I travelled a lot since my early 20s hence tagging was necessary. Furthermore, in the early 2000s when I was living in Pakistan, all of the sudden a new biometric ID card was mandated upon us i suspect return for the billions in aid the US gave in that decade (if you wonder where your tax money goes, you will find some of it in something called NADRA out here).

            That said – yes, its true. the media in the west creates an image of the third world that its an un-livable place. Of late, I have started thinking its a way to keep the heard under control incase the gate is left open as you say…. I realise this every time I visit Pakistan, or have friends from abroad over who are shocked at the kind of lives lived here…… I hear the same from friends in India, China, around Africa, etc.

            i really do think if one wants real freedom, the last hopes would be from places in the third world, though the powers that be are trying to close the loophole ASAP…. with say the biometric ID cards and databases in Pakistan which are harder than ever to trick or avoid, or the sudden de-monitization in India which like our ID cards was sudden and out of the blue, with no internal debate at any level…… makes one wonder…

        • I have always wondered about why so many thousands of people need to fly so often as part of their employment? Those travel tickets and hotel homes are quite costly, and I am sure all those people are highly paid as well. I can certainly understand the need for owners and CEOs of multi-national companies to fly to different locations, but why thousands of people? What jobs do they have which can’t be done locally on-site? Is this simply a part of our fake economy, like shipping raw materials out of this country for processing, then shipping them back here?

    • Anti Fed, I don’t know where you’ve been flying, but it doesn’t appear that it is out of the US. When I trip around countries in Central or south America, the first thing I notice is that nobody wears seatbelts, or helmets on their motorcycles. Sometimes you can see four people riding on one little scooter. Then there are people walking around with open containers of alcohol, children driving automobiles, drugs you can only buy with a prescription in the US are plentiful and easy to obtain at a cheaper price. How about being able to buy some real estate and NEVER have to pay property taxes ever again? Doesn’t that sound like the actual definition of owning real estate?

      People love to talk about how we’re losing our freedoms in the US, but very few are willing to leave the safety of these prison walls. We already have the prison mentality that so many convicted felons can’t live without. They can’t make it on the outside.

      • Shnarkle, that is SO true! Norma life, as it traditionally has been- and even was here, once upon a time.

        My eye doctor goes on medical-missionary trips to many such countries- and he tells me how in many of them, you just walk into a pharmacy and tell the clerk what you need- and he gives it to you!!!! No prescription or anything. If you want, the doctor may just write down the name and strength of your medicine on a scrap of paper. No government involvement; your kid could go and get it for you; no showing ID just to buy cough medicine- and all at a fraction of the cost of what we’d pay here- and people pay in cash. No insurance; no Medicare or Medicaid….

        You can buy fresh locally grown food direct from from the guy who grew it, on the town square, for peanuts.

        There is LIFE outside of the gulag! GOOD life!

        But look how here, the system has wrought their mind-control on even those who decry the evils of that system, so that even many among us would rather stay here and comply or die, rather than venture forth to places where a good deal of freedom can still be had in this life.

        • My number one concern about moving to another country is earning enough money to live on. I am a very long ways from being wealthy, and it will be another 10-12 years before I can draw social security payments if the program survives for that long. Yes, I know that things are cheap to buy in some areas with-in Central and South America or Eastern Europe; but having some income remains crucial unless I join some aboriginal tribe or something. Selling everything I have would not even bring me to the $50K level. I do have some really good skills, but will they be needed there is the question. I am still actively seeking financial solutions.

  17. I just had to “upgrade” my license as well, by my birthday last July.

    I was absolutely appalled when the email came in telling me I could keep the soon to be worthless status of my license or pay an additional fee to be able to travel domestically.

    Not only does it cost more, but the ominous degree of control is disturbing.

    Control is the operative word here.

    It reminds me of the original Tron movie, where one character laments: “You can’t even travel around your own microcircuits without permission from Master Control Program”.

      • Eric, increasingly what we suffer here is ceasing to be life. Why are you giving up?

        Life isn’t here. Death and tyranny are.

        I started over when I was 39. It wasn’t terrible; it was wonderful! Losing the shackles and gaining a new vista of freedom and hope, gives one a renewed vigor! You want to do things again because YOU CAN. Things that were once normal and done without thought or consequence, but which have become onerous due to tyranny, once again become normal, and life becomes enjoyable and exciting again, like when we were young.

        Tyranny has robbed us of these things.

        Why sit on your hands lamenting the inevitable, when we still have the opportunity to extricate ourselves? One day VERY soon (Like maybe 2020) that opportunity will vanish, and then we will lament not having availed ourselves of the opportunity while we still had that opportunity.

        We know that we are not going to change nor stave-off the system, here. Our options are: Bow; die; or leave.

        Only one of those options is viable. If we do not avail ourselves of it, how are we any better than the average authoritarian-collectivist? Merely wishing that we had more liberty doesn’t make us the better. Securing that liberty is what matters.

        I did it at 39, and I’ll be doing it again, on a mega scale at >56. You’re still young and healthy. Every day we deteriorate just a little bit more. The longer you wait…the harder it will become, both because of the effect of time on us, AND because of Uncle’s exponential tightening of the noose with every day that ticks by.

        Lots of men who yearn for liberty would love to be in your shoes: Single; no kids; own your place free and clear; no 9-5. You can do as you please! One day soon, you will lament the missed opportunity.

      • My license was due for renewal last February, and here in Florida they have a 2 month renewal window. They sent me a notice in December, said if I renew before December 31 I would get old license, after Jan 1 it would be “real ID”. Well, I got my ass down to the DMV tootsweet and renewed with the “old” system. It’s good for 8 years, so I guess I don’t have to worry about that for a little while anyway. Might not be able to fly somewhere down the road, but I don’t give a shit. Only go to Virginia and New England anyway, and I always drive to those places.

  18. What ever did we do before the modern era? Not having any idea who anyone was. Why, someone might walk into a bar, sit down and order a cocktail. Maybe pull out a cigar and light it. While indoors! Then pull out a few Morgan dollars and place them on the bar. Maybe chat up the waitress or discuss the problems of the day with the bartender. Eat a few bowls of peanuts. Settle up and head home. “Who was that man?” “That was… the lonely stranger.”

    These days a bar is a place to scream over the insanely loud “scientifically” designed music blasting from the sound system to the bartender to ask for a refill. Your credit card is placed on a rail near the cash register because some asshat once skipped out without paying his tab. The bartender doesn’t have time to have a conversation, that cuts into the tips (and they don’t have anything to discuss anyway). No more peanuts but highly subsidized (and salted) appetizers and other horribly spiced foods are available. Unless of course the peanuts are part of the “atmosphere” of the place, then they are forced in a strange sort of sanitized design way. And the waitress, bartenders busboys and bouncers are all going to demand ID, since Uncle can destroy their livelihood in one sting operation. Or worse, one citizen can drop a dime on a non-compliant establishment. And good luck trying to leave, since your credit card is now held hostage by the tap monkey.

    There was a time when your “papers” were a letter of introduction, usually written by a friend or family member who would vouch for you when you were an unknown. If that’s all an ID was, I’d be fine with it. Hell, I’m OK with some third party authentication as long as it wasn’t the state, and the authenticator wasn’t a monopoly. This does in fact exist today in the form of OATH. There are many different companies that have established authentication tools to help make sure you are who you say you are. If one company isn’t working out for you, there’s always another. It’s not perfect because I’m sure Uncle gets access to the databases, but there’s no reason this couldn’t be adapted for meatspace.
    https://openauthentication.org/oath-certified-products/

  19. I might fly one more time to visit extended family on the far side of the country right before the 2020 deadline. After that, any travel by air will have to be in a vehicle that I own I suppose. Very sad, but I will not voluntarily become part of a federal id database. I believe in the united states of america, not the united state of america. As I see it, such was an unfortunate consequence of the the union’s victory in the civil war.

    • Hi Mark,

      The last time I flew was two years ago, after my dad died. I won’t fly again until I can do so without having to assume the “I surrender” pose, submit to being irradiated and viewed naked by some cretin in a blue suit – or submit to being groped by some cretin in a blue suit. It is degrading and vile beyond description.

      And yet, most people sigh – and submit.

      Good friends of mine urge me to go with them to Mexico, where we can all stay for free at a friend’s casa on an island. I’d love to spend a few days at said casa. But not at the price of going along with what’s going on and acting as though it’s acceptable. It chaps my ass that people won’t take a stand – a non-violent one, without repercussions – to put a stop to outrages perpetrated upon them by a despicable government.

      • Have you ever taken the train across the country? I did once a few years ago for about 800 miles. It was a great time. No idiotic screening and I met some interesting people to talk to along the way. It was significantly less than a plane ticket about about the same amount of time considering all of the tsa crap and heavy traffic I would have had to go through if I had flown. However, I am not sure I would recommend it anymore with the recent track record of accidents with amtrack. It still probably is the best mode of discreet interstate travel however. No tsa or license plate readers. As for the flying, there are certain airports where I have always been harassed and certain ones where I have never been harassed. Indianapolis and Phoenix have been excellent ones in my experience (although you still have the stupid-ass scanners), while Boston Logan and both Chicago airports are complete hell holes.

        I will never fly in or out of Boston again though. Something about the very high Muslim presence there gets under my skin. On 9/11, Boston was one of the main airports that the terrorists funneled through. When I last used that airport this year, my cab driver to the airport was a muslim, the armed government worker at the main entrance with a rifle was a muslim, the american airlines bag check lady was a muslim, the tsa screener that padded me down was a muslim, and the janitor changing the trash bags at my gate was a muslim. I was dumbstruck and a bit creeped out to say the least.

        On top of that, CNN was playing on every screen of the airport wherever I looked. There was a constant echoing drone of their reporters bashing Trump for hours as I waited for my late flight to arrive.

        Call me crazy, but no more, no thanks.

        • Wow, Mark! You just reminded me of something that I was SO glad to get away from!

          In NY, by the late 90’s freaking TV screens were EVERYWHERE! In supermarkets; train platforms; virtually any public place! And I can not tolerate listening to noise! I don’t what is on…it’s all unnatural speech patterns and noises!

          I couldn’t stand it anymore.

          At least here in rural KY. on the rare occasions when I’m even in a public place, the worst I might hear on rare occasions is some country music on a radio- but for the most part….it’s still quiet everywhere.

          I couldn’t even IMAGINE being force-fed CNN. The fact that CNN can even exist, is a sad commentary as to the state of our people.

          But like the frog in the pot, or the people on the airport TSA-groping line….by repeated exposure, even those who may object become complacent and used to it; tolerant. And it’s the same with every other tyranny. “They” know what they’re doing. Those who don’t extricate themselves from these ever-increasing assaults to their senses, will wake up one day loving Big Brother…or at least not caring enough to be a problem.

            • Yep, that was my reaction when I first encountered that crap as well. I occasionally use the opportunity to comment out loud to “myself” (because I know most of them have microphones at the pump) that I would rather not stop there again due to the annoying crap being pushed at me. Not that I think it will matter; I suspect most morons at the pump think it’s a bonus or something…..whatever.

              • Not JUST microphones, and the technology is cheap and easily implemented. Back in 1973, there was this TV movie called “The Stranger”, about an astronaut whom ends up on a planet best described as a “Counter-Earth”, a twin orbiting in exactly the same path but on the opposite side, and therefore always hidden from each other. I’ll skip the astronomy lesson on why this “Counter-Earth”, named “Terra” in the movie, would have easily been discovered even by the Ancients. It’s a friggin’ movie. Anyway, “Terra” is a twin in so many way, including being populated by humans, and they speak English, save that their world has a worldwide Orwellian dictatorship of a government. The Astronaut, played by Glenn Corbett, at first thinks he’s crash-landed back on Earth, but then realizes he’s on an alien world. A doctor sympathetic to him warns him that the TV in his private hospital room not only transmits video, it also “sees” (e.g., has a built-in camera), so he needs to be careful as to what he says and does. Of course, our “hero” escapes and gets away from the evil dictatorship to start a new life, helped by a family in a VW micro bus travelling up the coast (the night sky has three moons).

                What’s interesting is that my Samsung TV has a built-in camera, which is useful for certain apps as it’s a so-called “Smart” TV. Of course, that cam could also theoretically be hacked and spy on me, as could the one in this very laptop that I’m using at the moment. Of course, I can disable the WiFi on these devices, and not plug them in, or can I? As with my phone, supposedly there is circuitry that turns them “on” without my knowledge, and for any other use, indeed they’re not “on”. This is supposed to be a ‘feature’ that the Government insisted on years ago by cell phone manufacturers in return for them not being banned for import into the USA. So the means to track movement, and keep anyone under surveillance is already here, just as “predicted” in a 45 y.o. made-for-TV movie.

                • Douglas, recently my Galaxy S4 died so I replaced it with a now, fairly cheap S5. Verizon has always flummoxed me stating I had unlimited calling before placing a call. This phone now calls out my location after the first infuriating notice.

                  I have no illusions it wasn’t keeping my location anyway since ex-Google employees have said Android phones do that.

                  I was traveling to see an old friend 350 miles away and had my phone off. When I got to his house I turned it back on and low and behold here’s the info off a personal weather station 80 miles back the way I’d come. On the trip back I removed the battery.

                  Yesterday I was going to take a pic and had it pointed at the window when this white-haired, wild-eyed old man stared back at me. It took me a bit to realize it was my back facing cam. It had never been on that I know of and I didn’t know how to use it so I managed to get it off.

                  Every time I find an app that would be useful for me, I read the EULA and without fail they can access every part of your phone and make changes to it as the app sees fit. I click off once again wondering why everyone wants my pics, vids, contact list, browser setting, etc. etc. Oh, and nearly everyone of them has access to your mic and camera too. What’s up with that bs?

                  I recently read the top ten apps for turning your phone into a super-bright LED were malware, out and out.

                  What ever you might get from a big corporation, it seems it’s nearly always mis-represented and spies on you too.

            • Yesiree bob, Skunkz and GTC. I Figured that. Seems like I may’ve even seen it once.

              Here. they had a radio station blaring at a local big-name gas station with truck fueling lanes, out in the middle of nowhere…but they seemed to have curtailed that. (The one time I went there for gas, I DID make a negative comment to the counter person!).

              I draw the line there. I just can’t tolerate brain pollution!

              When you’ve scrupulously avoided TV and radio for many years, and then are exposed to it even for a few seconds, it’s amazing how annoying it is! It’s such an intrusion! I just keep thinking “Will YOU SHUT UP!!!”.

              I went in to an Advance Auto store a few weeks ago (Don’t normally go there- but they had Fleet Charge antifreeze for $8 a gallon!) and they had freaking [c]rap “music” playing!!!!! There aren’t even any jigs around here….musta been for the stoopit girly-men youngsters working the counter…)

              • What I’ve noticed is that when I’m around a television, for just a few seconds, I notice it, and how easily I am hypnotized by it. I also notice how easily other people are transfixed by whatever is on the screen. The only places I usually find televisions on are any other person’s home I venture into, and any government buildings. Doctor’s offices also now have televisions. One of the other weird things I’ve noticed is that grocery and department stores now play heavy metal over their pa systems. The last time I was in Walmart they were cranking War Pigs by Black Sabbath. It doesn’t bother me, but it is odd that Heavy Metal replaced MUZAK

                • I would much rather listen to hard rock while shopping than to the elevator music that stores used to play back when I was young. I do play folk music some nights because it helps me go to sleep. Playing elevator music, rap, or most country music would annoy me so much that I wouldn’t be able to go to sleep.

                  • Hi Brian,

                    Rock would be fine; any music would be fine. Instruments played by musicians; singers who can. Instead we are subjected to auto-toned androgenous squealings accompanied by a computer-generated soundtrack or the ugly mumblings of some old-toofed thug, accompanied by a droning/mindless beat and a sound that sounds likes tinfoil being crumpled up…click, whirrr…booom booom booom

      • Last time I flew was a week or two before 9/11, I refuse to fly until the TSA are done away with. I will not subject my children to fondled by pedophiles in uniform simply to board a plane. Seriously looking to relocate but the options are not great, especially with 3 children. I don’t file or pay income taxes so the government has a whole lot less information about me (plus no one knows where I live) so I have a tiny bit more freedom than the typical tax-slave but not much.

        • Anonymous, you should at least file a return because those who don’t file a tax return are fit the profile of those involved in terrorism. Moreover, anyone who is suspected of not paying their taxes is just the person who will be detained until it can be determined if you’ve paid your debt to uncle.

          The options outside the US are superior to those inside. I have a cousin to who bought a boat in Canada, sailed it straight down to Guatemala with his wife and children when they were still just toddlers. They lived down there while their children grew up wandering around in the jungles playing with poisonous spiders.

          You’re in the system, and you will go out and get a new ID because you’re going to stay in prison for the rest of your life. Skipping out on your tax return doesn’t make you invisible to the government at all. It puts you on their radar.

  20. Here’s an article from Reason.com today detailing how the TSA is now investigating normal US citizens who have broken no laws. Air Marshalls have leaked the info since they’re pissed at being the TSA’s chore boys.

      • skunk, I read another article about that this week. It first came to light back when federal prosecutors were wreaking havoc ad hoc on anyone they could find when the shrub was in office. Of course it’s only gotten worse…..like everything else.

        • Morning, Eight!

          I will never understand why Julius Streicher got the rope while The Chimp got to retire comfortably and is treated with respect. Streicher was an asshole, certainly. But all he did was publish a cretinous newspaper. The Chimp actually had people killed, directly, on his orders… on the basis of lies. He directly terrorized the people of this country. If Streicher was guilty of “war crimes” and “crimes against humanity,” why did The Chimp get a pass?

          • Morning Eric, why did anyone who repeated those lies of WMD’s get a pass since they knew it was a lie and led the country to war with it? That is the very definition of treason……a hanging crime and one of the most important to enforce.

            Had you or I said same we’d be in some prison yard cemetery. BTW, there’s a good YT video of former general Stubblemeier as he recalls realizing 911 was an inside job. He points out Bldg. 6 falls before the twin towers and was not hit with anything. There’s another video of which I don’t have a link to either that shows why those buildings were taken down and who they were trying….and did kill. After seeing that all the pieces fall into place since a lot of powerful people would have lost $4.2B when 3 companies discovered the crime that had been committed.

  21. They can do this, but they won’t update everyones’ old social security numbers (due to having too few digits and therefore being vulnerable to identity theft). Actually they should give everyone a public SSN that people can change anytime online, and a private SSN for use by the govt only. But they don’t even care about identity theft.

    They can do this, but they threw a proposal out the window that planned to put a special mark on felon’s ID’s (like a big red X or something similar), which would have eliminated the need for concealed handgun permits and would eliminate the need for background checks and would save alot of taxpayer money for all that red tape. It is a perfect solution — everyone with a criminal record (or felon) immediate gets a red X put on their ID, so everyone that doesn’t have the red X is guaranteed to have no criminal record, so no need for background checks etc. But we can’t have common sense or efficiency… congress obviously works for the CRIMINALS.

      • Hi Trish,

        Me too. And it’s not even a question of having to worry about being charged with a felony. They can simply grab you, take your property – whatever they like – without so much as accusing you of anything, specifically. Let alone the bother of having to convict you of it.

        • But eric, this really isn’t as big a deal as leaving the comfort of your home now is it? It has to be worth it just so you can see your friends, right? Isn’t it more important to know that you can still make money here, and see your friends until they come and lock you up? You really don’t know if that’s going to happen at all, right? You might be one of the lucky ones who never gets tossed into jail without being charged. What’s the point of worrying about something that may never happen to you? Just because it’s happening to others in this country, doesn’t mean it will happen to you. It’s everyone for themselves; it’s the Amerikan way. Just think if someone turns in your neighbor for growing beans in their front yard, you might be able to acquire their place or at least harvest their beans.

          If you truly believed the government was as much of a threat as you seem to be saying, you wouldn’t be sitting there waiting for them to grab all your worldly possessions. If you knew there was a tornado or a hurricane heading your way and it was definitely going to take out your home, would you sit there and wait to see how bad it’s going to be? If the fire dept. knocks on your door informing you that they can no longer fend of the flames that are definitely going to consume your entire property, would you wait to see how hot it’s going to get?

          The bottom line is that you truly don’t really believe that’s what is going to happen. Nobody really knows what’s going to happen. The economy could collapse and leave law enforcement officers thinking they need to find employment elsewhere.

          • Hi Schnarkel,

            I moved to a very rural area to escape a great deal of the obnoxiousness of modern American life; it’s not a perfect solution by any means – but it’s a reasonable one for me. My cost of living is a third of what it was – and I live in a county with no zoning laws and can largely do as I please on my land.

            Granted, the Free Shit Army/Golden Horde could descend at almost any time. This is true almost anywhere, though.

            You say I “…truly don’t really believe that’s what is going to happen” – that is, I do not believe the worst is going to happen.

            The truth is I don’t know. None of us does. Very much like a hurricane that might hit – and might be stronger or weaker than expected.

            I am taking a chance by staying, certainly.

            But it is also taking a chance to leave.

            This isn’t a question of right or wrong – or brave vs. cowardly or even expedient. We all have different perspectives and wants and needs.

            I am just too damned tired to start over somewhere else, for openers. And for seconds, my back gets up at the prospect of being rousted. I am not a tough guy; far from it. But I will stand my ground, if it comes down to it.

            Because I am tired.

            • G’ Afternoon, Eric, Muh Boy!

              Not arguing with you….and you know that you and I are in very similar places/situations….

              Point I’d like to make is: The things we have fled from already, by moving to different locales within this country, will inevitably encapsulate the entire country. It’s almost to that point already, even in many very rural areas.

              As Libertarians, we should understand this more so than most: The model of government which has been put in place over the years in the places we fled from, is being put in place everywhere in this country.

              In my little county with one traffic light and where the biggest town has 1500 people, there has been talk time and again about imposing zoning and planning.

              It’s just a matter of time!

              When I came here, the local governments made do with what they had. If there was an urgent need for something (in their eyes), they satisfy that need in a very modest manner- like building a new city hall for only $100K.

              NOW….as the idea of imposing the model of government which exists in NY, CA., NoVA, etc. catches on…..suddenly, they are building new schools for millions of dollars (In a county that is NOT gaining population, no less!); new county offices; a new firehouse (and it will not be a cheap steel building like the old one!)…and of course, you can be sure the taxes are going to start rising exponentially, just like they did in NY in the 80’s, but before property values rise exponentially (same as NY- the original residents are forced out, and investors and politicians take advantage of the temporarily cheap land…- and of course, the zoning and planning will be imposed to further help that scenario, and to raise even more money for the spendthrift governments….

              It’s just a matter of time, for you, and me, or anyone else. And this stuff is on the fast-track now, because it’s old hat by now.

              And the thing is: It’s getting to the point where there is nowhere left to go here. The few places that haven’t started this crap yet (Which, to someone coming anew from the city, would be your area or my area) will be getting it in another year or two or three.

              There are places in MONTANA where this is going on on a draconian level already!!

              There is no escaping it here.

              How will you feel when you have to buy a permit and submit a plan that conforms to *their* specs, just to put up a fence? Or get certification and conform to their wishes just to keep a few chickens?

              You know damn well you’re not going to stand your ground when the building inspector comes a-knocking, any more so than we do when we see blue lights behind us.

              So, it may not have reached our neck of the woods yet…but it is at the doorstep, and it is definitely coming- I guarantee it.

              The states are given federal funds for compliance; the counties are given state funds for compliance. The towns look around and see what other locales are getting away with, and that they could be fleecing us for more money, and grabbing more power, so they do what those other places are doing, in addition to all of the mandates.

              Many places now, the small rural counties are being consolidated in a few larger counties, for easier control and to thwart local input. Not if…but when. If it’s not happening yet where we are, give it a year or two….we’ll start hearing rumblings about it, and it’ll happen- POOF!

              These things are the fulfillment of a blueprint for the imposition of an Orwellian superstate on a large highly-populated country.

            • It’s funny you should mention hurricanes eric, The place I live in now looked like the perfect place to avoid hurricanes. I checked it out thoroughly, and even looked at the hurricane shutter hots spots which were a band around the eastern coast of Florida down to the tip and about half way up the west coast. I’m an hour west of Orlando so I was in a perfect spot to avoid hurricanes, floods, etc. Except that when hurricane Irma came through here she came right in between me and Orlando. I was one of the few people in Florida to stay because I wasn’t interested in sitting on the freeway for the next few days while the winds began to pick up. I woke up the day before she came through here and it was incredibly quiet. It was a beautiful warm sunny day, and around 4 or 5 in the afternoon the internet went out followed by the electricity. There was no wind whatsoever, but the power and internet went out anyways. I woke up in the middle of the night and thought the roof was going to lift right off quickly followed by the rest of the house with me in it. For some reason nothing happened to the house. There was damage all over the place. Roofs had blown off of buildings in town. There were trees blocking the roads everywhere. There were branches and debris everywhere. My fences had all blown down, and two days later another storm came through here and did more damage than hurricane Irma.

              So you’re right about how no one really knows what’s going to happen. However, I do think that eventually people do get to a point where they see that sitting tight may not work so well. That was my first plan, but after getting everything I would need to live without public utilities, I then began to look at how easy it would be to just pack it all up and move it to a better location. The acid test is when you flip your breaker box off. See how well you’re able to live without the modern conveniences. I’m not a survivalist. I’m into enjoying the creature comforts so much so that I get a bit disgruntled if I have to wait for the power company to get my power back on. I like having my AC and a cold fridge so I have my own system in place. It’s common around here, but from your description, you can do the same thing without anyone slapping a penalty for not pulling permits etc.

              What I notice about our situation is that you’re really no different than someone who lives outside the US except that those outside the US are unlikely to see the US impose taxes, regulations, etc. on them, at least not before they get to anyone inside the country. We’re both fairly secluded from government thuggery for the time being. You see what’s going on with government regulations, and as time goes on these laws are going to become a bigger nuisance. Right now, we can complain, but it’s not that big of a deal. When I left California, it took some time to acclimate to the fact that I didn’t have to pay any taxes anymore. No more smog checks every two years. There were so many things I didn’t have to hassle with anymore that when I finally did acclimate to it, I was astonished at how I could have been so complacent about all that nonsense for most of my life. I had to ask myself what nonsense am I accepting now?

              • Hi Schnarkel,

                My story is similar! The move from the DC area to this area increased my everyday liberty substantially; it also substantially reduced my cost of living. I still have to pay both income and property taxes, of course. But I can live on much less income and my property tax is a fourth of what it was once.

                In re modern conveniences: I can (and do) heat my place with wood – free – and have a propane heater as well. Also a generator that runs on both fuels. So grid power is not an issue.

                For me, food is the biggie – if the system does ever really crash.

                If I didn’t dread and loathe travel by air, I’d check out Central and South America. But I doubt I’ll do that – much less relocate. I’m past the event horizon of being willing to reboot my life somewhere else. The Free Shit Army or the Hut! Hut! Hutters! may descend, I realize. But so be it.

                I have work to do!

                • Hey Ya, Eric!

                  Not trying to change yer mind- but just to show how I look at it:

                  The thought of leaving NY for something better, kept me going! Even though, most recently prior to moving, I lived mere blocks from the house I grew up in- and would take great comfort in taking walks past it, and in the neighborhood where I had such glorious childhood memories.

                  I’d saunter around the streets at night with my dog, reliving old memories. It was the only place I truly had “roots”.

                  But even then, it wasn’t the same; there was no going back. And to look at that place now….eeesh! To put the icing on the cake, they just tore down that house last year.

                  Thing is, seeing the ever-increasing tyranny; increasing expenses; declining quality of life, I don’t what I would have done had I not had the prospect of extricating myself.

                  So now, I have my 28 acres in the country, and can live dirt cheap, and avoid most contact with the authoritarian-collectivist world- and I love it….but yet, the prospect of finding something even better- where I won’t have to worry about ever-encroaching tyranny, or doubling property taxes; where I might not want to avoid the outside world, because there isn’t some porker hiding behind every bush; and because the people aren’t sheep who mindlessly go along with whatever their captors tell them, etc.

                  There are still many places in this world where there is real life!

                  And the thing is: The US is all we have known. Even those who travel, often only go to the “familiar” places- i.e. other first-world countries; resorts; or places that aren’t very far away.

                  My nieve recently went to London…. She took a picture of Buckingham Palace. Ooooo…there’s a thrill…yeah [sarcasm]…

                  Time and expense and trouble, to see a cliche that everyone has already seen 1000 times- and comes back knowing nothing about life in that country [Not that there’s much to know…]

                  How many people have been to Vanautu, or Tonga or the Solomon Islands or Fiji? i.e. how many have really experienced something DIFFERENT?

                  The thought of discovering what’s out there; things which we don’t know about; unique places….and where it is freer than what we have known here in our lifetime- THAT still keeps me going.

                  You and I have found nice places here in the belly of the beast, and have greatly improved our lives and have secured [for the time being] a little more liberty than we may have had in the past- and the change in our lives has been quite great. One can only imagine what may await us in a remote part of some small country that few have even heard about!

                  And as for me, I may just take some time to amble around a bit before settling, and even experience some places that I have already sort of written off. Sometimes you just have to see for yourself, and you gain a new perspective through your own eyes that you can not get second-hand.

                  I’ve always been amazed by people whom I’ve known who have left, for places that I really wrote off, like Chile- and how amazingly happy they’ve been with their decision.

                  I think a lot of it has to do with what you and I have experienced by moving to our respective locales: When you go to a place with significantly less tyranny- even if it is not perfect [and no place is perfect] the contrast is dramatic, to the point where we really notice the difference.

                  Just getting away from the chemtrails, helicopters, “saaaaaaafety” cult, many different layers of government; cops; federal programs/funding that reaches into the smallest burg, etc.- just those alone make a difference that we have never experienced.

                  I want to experience it!

                  I’d hate to think that I’d spent my life bemoaning the the ever increasing losses of liberty, when I could have not only escaped that, but also could have done so in a wonderful environment with better weather, etc. -just as I lament not having gotten out of NY sooner, for the much better life i have here.

                  I just don’t see the sense of spending the rest of my life a country where the government AND most of the people are hostile to everything i hold dear, and are actively working to destroy those things.

                  I’m not a masochist nor a martyr.

      • I think you missed the point. The red X on felon’s ID’s is a good idea. If you’re worried about the govt handing out felonies, they will STILL be doing that without the red X’s. The red X’s and gov’t handing out felonies are mutually exclusive.

        • Crazy Harry, so you think the red x is going to make a difference? How? It won’t stop a felon from acquiring a fire arm and committing another felony. It won’t help law enforcement establish if a someone they’ve stopped is a felon as the felon can simply toss the ID in the sewer. A red x only makes it more difficult for a felon to get a job, and more likely that they will turn right back to committing felonies to get by. Are you worried about a felon voting?

  22. Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck… maybe even a “recreational vehicle.” And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?

    Captain Ramius: I suppose.

    Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?

    Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.

  23. Thank you for another reminder of why my desire to fly anywhere is effectively ZERO. They can keep the overpriced prison orientation at the airport, I’ll get my kicks on Route 66 for less money and a hell of a lot more fun.

    I’d rather listen to the sounds of a finely tuned pushrod V8 and see the sights that actually made us proud to be Americans for 3 days than spend 3 hours next to a 40 year old man in fuzzy pajamas playing Candy Crush (or whatever the flavor of the week is in vapid “smart” phone entertainment). I’m currently plotting a 4 day roadtrip with the family in my ’63 Comet, with no phones, no gps, no electronics, total avoidance of freeways, just reconnecting with family and a better time.

    • The only joy I got flying was extended silent reading time on my tomes on anarchism, criminals behind the starting of WWII and looting thereafter, and economics. Can’t find time to read these days except on the crapper or getting my tires rotated. I agree though, I’d rather burn rubber and eat burgers and see gods green earth than fly in a prison cell. Almost cheaper these days.

    • El Guapo, I say this with a staunch record of unblemished heterosexuality: Your trip sounds splendid!

      Welcome to the world I live in, every day. It’s wonderful. (But not for much longer, unless we vacate this God-forsaken country)

  24. STOP FLYING on commercial flights.

    Seriously – if say 25% of the flying sheeple did this for a month we could see change we could believe in.

    • You know, I’ve tried this logic on nearly everyone I know. The usual response is “but everyone is doing it”, or “what makes you so special”, you know the same bullshit you got for steeping out of line in grade school!
      Voluntary-Non-Participation is the most effective non-violent tool available to evreyone, and yet hardly anyone ever uses it, or even considers it an option. All that grade-school indoctrination has apparently paid off, for the PTB, that is. This really is a nation of mindless sheeple, and I’m done wasting my efforts on most of them. Them can all march right into the cooker for all I care, but they aren’t taking me with them, not alive leastways.

        • Me too gtc, me too. When you think about it though, “steeping” is an apt description.

          Well, I can tell you what makes you so special. Remember in The Jerk when Nathan’s “dad” was giving him a going away lesson? They were walking across the cattle pens when his dad pulled out a round of Shinola to which he said to Nathan. ‘What is that?” pointing to a big pile of cowshit and Nathan said “shit”. Then he pulls out the Shinola and says “what is this?”. Nathan responds “Shinola”. Then he says “Son, you’re going to do just fine”. It gave Nathan the confidence to do just fine. Leaving home we all needed a little encouragement and stepping and steeping aren’t so much different.

            • Hi Graves!

              I should fuck with GM. Insist I am African American, female and gay. Which I kind of am in fact since I like women! Insist I am very “diverse” and their having kicked me out of the press pool is extremely racist and homophobic…

              • No way, eric. You clearly don’t understand the rules. The way it works is that the FIRST one to sling the accusation automatically wins, especially if the accusation is one of racism, and doubly especially if the accuser is entrenched in a powerful corporation and can remain nameless.

                I hate to tell you,old shoe, but you are unarmed in this fight.

                    • Hiya Nunz,

                      I know I am! I love women… which is a problem as far as opting out of things. In time, I suppose, my interest will wane…

                    • It is a conundrum, Eric. I think, in short, what it comes down to, is that we love the idea of women; the hypothetical woman that doesn’t exist. The sweet personality; the values that are on par with ours; a good intellect and wit, but not used for nefarious purposes nor to crap on the role for which they exist; and the beautiful, soft, supple body….

                      LOL- it’d be hard finding a candidate these days who possesses ONE of those characteristics!

                      I’ve given up lamenting it. No sense lamenting over what we can’t have/doesn’t exist.

                      Makes me wish that I could’ve gotten out though, before I became weary of them all. I hear they have women in other parts of the world. The ones in the off-beat obscure place I’ll end up in, might not even be ruined yet. Too late for me though. The mystique is gone- once ya know that fancy carriage is really just a ticking pumpkin, you can’t enjoy it anymore, because you know it’s going to turn back into a pumpkin…..

                      But we can THINK about it. We’ve always thought about it. It’s just that, once the bloom is off of the rose, you realize that thinking about it is better than the real thing- and then you enjoy it more, because you’re free to do so, as you realize that you already have the good stuff- as opposed to thinking that those thoughts are just a desire for something which you do not have.

                    • Nunz, “The sweet personality; the values that are on par with ours; a good intellect and wit…”

                      I once thought I saw one of those magnificent beings but it turned out to be just another flying unicorn.

                    • Skunkz,

                      I think I remember seeing a few of those when I was very young. I think they’ve all gone extinct now.

  25. Interestingly, there is federal court precedent that you cannot be required to present ID to fly because travel is a right – and yet they claim you have to have the ‘proper’ ID to fly?

    Note that other forms of ID can legally be used at airports, federal buildings, etc but that most of the ‘security’ personnel there are not familiar with them and will insist on seeing your driver’s license.
    I have a passport card that I can use when needed, but in my state they are now centrally printing all new licenses and ID’s and taking two weeks to return them – and in the meantime, they give you a receipt that a license has been applied for that states it is NOT a driver’s license.

    • Travel is a right of course, but could I trouble you for a cite or reference to this case? It would be a useful addition to everyone’s intellectual arsenal.

      • The Feds will argue that they’re NOT restricting you from travelling, just regulating your ability to travel via commercial carrier, which is Federally regulated. It’s a fine distinction which they make for THEIR convenience, especially the ability to restrict movement in a common manner. Although there are about 175,000 private pilots in the US, the high costs of acquiring and keeping a private plane has made this a rich man’s sport.

        Of course, being restricted from flying commercially is an effective means of keeping someone from leaving the country. Sure, one can cross the borders into Mexico and/or Canada, and be at the mercy of the authorities in either country. And I wouldn’t try taking a boat TO Cuba, it’s been dangerous enough for Cubans trying to come to US!

        Next will come a “No Internet Access” for persons deemed “terrorists” or simply too much of a pain in the ass. And the best part? It won’t necessarily have to be direct action by the US Justice Department. If I were targeted to be driven off the ‘Net, for example, perhaps one day I attempt to use my machine at home, and I get a message, “Per directive of Department of Homeland Security, your Comcast Account has been suspended.” Likely I won’t be able to watch the Giants or view “Ancient Aliens” either on TV, and my VOIP phone would be dead. Then, when I pick up my CELL phone to complain, I’d find it’s dead as well. Messing with the average Joe, or in this case, Doug, would be so easy I’m surprised that “Uncle” isn’t already doing it! Just as in the Soviet Union in the 1960s until it’s collapse in 1991, the authorities didn’t have to drag folks off that they didn’t like in the middle of the night like under Stalin. They just rendered someone a ‘Non-Person”, or, deemed that they needed Psychiatric care, after all, they were HUMANE Communists, right? And thus Soviet dissidents were often sent to mental asylums and drugged into insensibility. Let’s not kid ourselves that the Powers-that-be wouldn’t like to do the same to those found to be “inconvenient”.

        • It’s also been a boom time for private jets and other charter aircraft. Every Christmas Sardy Field in Aspen is packed full of holiday revelers’ preferred mode of transport. The funny thing is the commercial terminal is just a few feet from the general aviation terminal. But that few feet makes all the difference. The GA folks can have the hotel shuttle drive them right up to their plane. Or if they’ve been using the Ferrari all week they’ll just pull up themselves (and have “their man” take care of getting it back home). Goes without saying that they won’t have to worry about ID or security pat downs. Because having money means you’re automatically trusted I guess. Just like Patty Hurst was trusted, right?

          • Hi RK,

            A few years ago, I attended a Ford media event in Canada. They flew us (journalists) in the Ford plane. No Hut! Hut! Hutting! No testicular cancer exam. Just board the plane and go.

            Most people have no clue that security theater only applies to the little people.

            To my dying day, I will have visions of The Chimp experiencing the Mussolini Treatment at that gas station in the closing weeks of the war.

            • Just remember one of the major reasons Ron Paul gave for retiring: He was tired of being pulled aside and patted down because of his artificial knees. The fact that he didn’t fly charter aircraft made him the last honest man in Washington as far as I’m concerned.

        • Douglas, “…Soviet dissidents were often sent to mental asylums and drugged into insensibility”

          Not unlike sending kids strung out on Ritalin to gubmint skools.

        • Airline security shouldn’t even be socialized in the first place. It should be a matter for the airlines themselves. If they had to compete on it there wouldn’t be these humiliating systems. But the airlines don’t want to pay for it or be responsible and the government leverages the rest of handouts for the power.

  26. So what happens when I am called for jury duty in federal court in a federal building (which has happened to me) and the guard at the door won’t let me in because I don’t have their precious ID? Will I be arrested for not reporting for jury duty?

    • This is a really good question Charles. I am sure there will be immediate law suits as soon as this law takes effect. I’m thinking it will become a supreme court case too, given the federal problem it presents.

    • The government Real ID site FAQ lists instances for which having the Real ID will not be required to enter federal buildings. One on the list is “accessing…constitutionally protected activities (including a defendant’s access to court proceedings”. Another is “participating in law enforcement proceedings or investigations”. Looks as federal jury duty would be incorporated. In other words, they anticipated this problem. A court battle might happen, but it seems unlikely over this particular issue.

      • Hi EK,

        I suspect that “federal” will also include museums and – of course – most of downtown Washington. Not that I ever plan to set foot there again in this life.

        • Eric, Like every other cancer that Uncle starts, is there any part of the [w]hole to which it is not spread before long, no matter how small it’s beginnings? So you are [insert Howard Cosell voice]”precisely correct”.

          Before long, once the majority have “Real[creepy] ID, those of us who don’t, will probably be viewed as being suspect by default, just by reason of not having it. Get pulled over? “Oh, since you don’t have Real ID, we’ll have to take you in, until we can establish that you are who you say you are, and that you are not ‘wanted’ somewhere…..etc. etc. hut! hut! hut!”…..

          And another thing: If they have “no-fly lists” because some boogeyman once did a no-no on an airplane, how long will it be before the same model is used for driving- i.e. “no drive lists” because some boogeymen used cars and trucks instead of an airplane?

          This is already the most tyrannical police state the world has ever seen- and it has the full support of most of it’s serfs. And it’s only going to get worse. We need to get out of here!

          • Hey Brian, have you ever been down the Mississippi? That thing has a few places where the currents are always going 10 mph. If your boat doesn’t go more than that, you’re going to collide with something.

            There are also jetties jutting out from the banks so you need good charts which cost more than the boat. If the water level is up, you won’t see the jetties and you’re toast. The sand bars also move so the charts are practically useless for seeing them. A barge will just plow right through it, but smaller boats get stuck.

            I wouldn’t discount the benefits of traveling for a good deal. I think of it this way, would I travel a thousand miles for $10k? How about $20k?

            check out this deal:
            https://www.free-boat.com/free/43-stephens-flush-deck-cruiser-kodak-tn/?lang=en

            • No, Shnarkle, I haven’t been down the Mississippi River, but I have crossed over it hundreds of times. It must not be as deep as it appears to be then. Is this the reason for the existence of lock and dams? Are fish finder sonars useless for avoiding shallow areas? I used to have one, and it would tell me the depth of the water below me. Are there areas where the river is shallow all the way across it? Regardless of your answers; I recon that I will take your advice about not traveling down the Mississippi River.
              Until the past year or so, I had spent my entire life living far away from rivers large enough for yachts. There are small lakes around here large enough for yachts, but that is it. I have only seen the Gulf of Mexico a hand full of times, the Atlantic Ocean once from afar, and the Pacific Ocean up close once when I got pulled over for a DOT inspection at the San Diego area weigh station. I have also seen the Oceans from passenger jets. My late father was in the Navy, so I am quite sure that I can likewise adapt to living on the sea. I am looking forward to a new adventure!
              Yeah, I would just LOVE to find a boat like that one you posted a link to! Perhaps I will. Thanks for all of this info Shnarkle.

              • Hey Brian, a fish finder or depth sounder is useless if you don’t stop in time. It’s a buyer’s market right now. If you’re willing to travel, you can pick up some screaming good deals. The Mississippi is deep enough for those barges to get down, but they know where the sand bars are. The old joke is as they hit one, the captain says, “see there’s one now”. The key to getting down that river is to know where the risky spots are at before you go down it. A chart plotter is probably mandatory. You can stare at a fish finder and watch the depths change, but after a while it will lull you into complacency. I’ve been creeping along channels that weren’t moving at all, and ended up grounded for half a day. One day I got stuck three times in less than half a mile. While I was waiting for the tide to rise on the third one, I hoisted my sails to see if I could get them to blow the hull over onto its side just to free it from the sand bar.

                • Cruising the Great Lakes to the Gulf via the Illinois and Mississippi is a very popular thing. Google it- lots of people do it every year in types and sizes of boats. Biggest concern for them are the low bridge clearance up noth- which of course wouldn’t be an issue for you for you, Brian.

                  The navigable channels are kept well marked for the big ships. know where you’re going and stay in the channels, and there shouldn’t be a problem. If container ships and tankers can do, it ain’t gonna be a problem for a little boat.

                  Also, know the basics of plotting a course and navigating the old-fashioned way- ’cause while all the modern electronics may be convenient, they can nad do break- plus, if you’re gonna be staying near the coast, why invest in a lot of fancy stuff that you don’t really need?

                  • I am divided about this Nunzio because those sonars also detect fish, and some even show marinas and such. It would save time with catching fish I would think. It also would detect sunken boats I would think. OTOH, good ones are expensive, and so far all of them I have researched say that they include mapping for the USA and Canada, except for a Garmin one who charges $400 more for other maps according to an Amazon reviewer. None of them mentioned anything about mapping for central or south America. I would not buy one now anyway because the boat I buy might already have one.

                    • Oh, I’m not saying don’t use/get electronics- just know how to do basic navigation in case they fail/get stolen/etc. -and that you don’t necessarily need a lot of the fancy stuff- but some of it can be nice to have.

                      Also, bear in mind that things like GPS can be spotty or just not work in some places- but of course, things like sonar and radar will work for your immediate area (and at least one of those is a good thing to have- especially if you will ever be operating at night!).

                    • Actually, Brian, I think the fact that they now have good quality radar and sonar, and it’s cheap- is pretty cool!

                      Back when I was a kid and had my clamboat, all I had was a $6 chart and a $28 compass. I just figured out the basics from ny rudimentary knowledge of geometry (Hmmmm…360* in a circle…360* on the compass…). Didn’t even have a radio; and no cell phones back then.

                      The electronics then were very rudimentary. A depthfinder/fishfinder cost hundreds of dollars (as much as my boat!) and was so crude, that it was a joke. Of course, I didn’t need any of that stuff- but now that it’s cheap, and of good quality, at least it’s there if we need or want it.

                      Personally though, I just hate to see so many boats today festooned with scads of electronics…. people are paying so much attention to the displays, they’re not watching where they’re going half the time; and IMO, they’re losing one of the best aspects of being out on the water- that of being in the real natural environment, away from all of the crud of typical modern life.

                      Heck, if I were going to do any serious cruising, I’d get me a good sextant. The stars are always there. GPS signals? Not so much…especially in the Southern hemisphere….. There are lots of places on this earth where the only thing that works is a compass and a sextant. Those would be the places that most interest me…

                      Oh, and another FYI: You might want to get a radar reflector for your boatr, so that other vessel’s radar can “see” you easily.

                      Here’s that link I mentioned a few days ago- people who crossed the ocean in very small boats: (I find this terribly interesting)
                      http://www.microcruising.com/famoussmallboats.htm

                    • Nun, you must not be a fisherman. Electronics allow you to locate fish plus structure in the water.

                      Flashers are almost real time whereas, back 20 years ago, graphs weren’t nearly as fast.

                      The Garmin I had was a 12,000 foot unit and it had a lot of power. It as the sort of thing you used at speed or just to paint a pic of the bottom and the flasher showed what was going on in real time.

                      The Garmin was so powerful you could hear the transponder snapping when the big motor was off. It would relieve you of fish since it ran fish away in a hurry. You identify fish and structure on a fairly fast (trolling motor fast) run, go away and then come back later on trolling motor only with that godawful snapping noise off.

                      It would paint a great pic but run the fish off doing so.

                      Fishing for white bass it wasn’t such a big deal in deep water so you could make a pass and throw out your markers and turn it off. Fishing for black bass would just screw you for big fish since they knew and avoided that sound.

                      On the same body of water you didn’t need either for the most part since you knew where fish would be. It was a great way to get to know a lake, river, etc. Just cause you have electronics doesn’t mean you use them all the time. Run up on a stump in a storm and you’d wish you had better and more electronics. Your life often depends on it.

                    • Oh, I used to be an avid saltwater fisherman, Eight. (Was never into freashwater fishing though- I heard that people’d catch crappies. I didn’t want no crappy fish. If we wanted crappy fish, we had sea robins and porgies… 🙂 )

                      When I had my boat, a “fish finder” had a circular dial with numbers around it. A colored bar would be next to a number to show you the depth, and fish or submerged structures, etc. were represented by thinner bars on the dials at their appropriate depths…. Remember those things?

                      Yeah, the ones they have now are like freaking cameras by comparison, but ya know? If I go fishing (non-commercially), I really don’t want to use thousands of dollars worth of state-of-the-art technology to catch the little fishy. I wanna do it the analog way (I’ll bet there are a lot of ANALlogs in San Francisco Bay… :D)-I mean, it takes all of the fun and enjoyment out of it if you have to use all of the fancy technology just to catch a fish. I’d rather use my mind and my senses, and do it like fishermen always have. (We still used to manage to find those holes in which the fluke liked to hang out on the sides of; or the rocks and debris that the blackfish like….)

                      Damn…I want to go fishing now… 🙂

                      Now I have a truck. I don’t need to schlepp my stuff on the subway!

                    • Nun, my feelings are hurt…we have storms moving in and the fish are desperate for rain like the rest of us. I’d bet they’re nearly crawling out on the bank for a drop of rain.

                      Well, the pressure is dropping so I know they’re turned on…..and so am I.

                      I’d rather fish than …….anything.

                      A friend always crappie fished and I did too but I’d take a perch, a small sun perch over a crappie and crappie are about as good as it gets.

                      So we go to a tank that’s made by making a dam across a deep ravine that normally flows a lot of water when it rains.

                      He starts out using a crappie jig and I use a tiny jig more for perch….but I was letting it drop a long time(1/16th oz. on 4 lb. line)and catching some big perch I strung up. He fished for crappie and I fished for perch although the same lures will catch either so we both caught crappie and perch but I was using a technique for perch and he for crappie.

                      We had a good day and brought a lot of fish back. We’d discussed which tasted better and crappie are just about the best freshwater fish you can eat….just about, but I always preferred perch. We get home and get them ready for the fryer and thrown em in the fridge.

                      Next day we’re a small crowd and cook all of them(quite a bit of fish). So I asked him to keep an open mind(he did and had one when fish were concerned) and say what was the best eating fish there. When the feeding frenzy was over and everyone was sitting around on their haunches I asked him which he thought was better. He ruminated on it some more and admitted the perch did have a taste hard to beat and they were at least as good as a crappie. I didn’t expect more since we’d both been fishermen for decades and had our own preferences.

                      I knew which I liked best, not because I got to catch them less but because they had a “finer” flavor. Just take a fork and pulled the meat off the bones of perch and that’s heaven on earth to me. Crappie are great eating too, but in my opinion, not quite as good as perch.

                      Then again, I had friends who thought turtles were mighty fine….and they are from the right body of water.

                      I won’t argue vehemently what sort of creature is best to eat but I enjoy fishing…..even if I don’t catch anything.

                      My best friend and I had leftovers with us from the night before on the boat fishing for black bass. No, we don’t eat them, they’re a sport fish and we’d go after crappie and perch if we were hungry. We stopped mid day and ate leftovers, parsley fettuccine and grilled salmon with toasted garlic bread.

                      It was a shame we had no tuna. The wife used to get mad from being neglected cause we fished all the time. She once said “You’d live on that damned boat if you could”. I replied it wasn’t that hard to live on it but it didn’t really sleep that well and I did have work to do……dammit.

                      Glad to hear you no longer need the subway. We have some in Tx. but I have avoided them since I’ve always had wheels and never understood why anyone would use them since they didn’t really go anywhere of necessity.

                      I’m not much of a pedestrian or mass locomotion. If I’m driving along and the urge to do something besides follow the path I’m on heading to my initial destination comes along, I’ll divert and do something else. I detest public bathrooms and will pull off and take a country road to a gate I can stop and get right and open a cold one and partake of a hot one. It’s a Texas tradition. I’m even known to use the engine to cook when I’m on the road. I know people who have perfected engine cooking and can make meals to knock you out…..from underhood.

                      One day a friend and I were going fishing but the weather got too rough and we loaded up and headed back in. I had BBQ heating on the engine and some of the sauce from it was on the outside of the container. It was cold, wet weather and we hadn’t eaten since the day before. My buddy said the smell of the BBQ was killing him, coming in through the heater as it was…so we stopped at the next roadside park and had a feast. No need to ask me twice.

                    • Eight,

                      So, crappie isn’t crappy? Ya know, I don’t think I’ve ever et freshwater fish.

                      Closest I ever came, was when I was a pre-adolescent kid; my friends and I would head off to one of the local ponds in the woods that still existed on Long Island at the time, or to the lake(Ronkonkoma), and try our luck, using such things as bread(or what passes for it) and Pillsbury dough, etc. as bait- and none of us ever caught a damn thing.

                      That was the extent of my freshwater fishing.

                      A few years later, as a teen, fishing off of the bridges and seawalls and jetties of NYC, I was quite proficient.

                      The subways in NY were great then- ‘specially for a kid without a car. The system is 100 years old, and you could get anywhere- it goes all over the city. (Today it sucks- It’s become a giant work-fare program into which billion$ of tax dollars are funneled on a never-ending basis, and as a result, there are so many detours and disruptions (sometimes for years at a time) that you can’t get anywhere reliably anymore, and nobody knows where they might end up when they board a train.

                      Just shopws ya the freedom we’ve lost, too: Late ’70’s- I’d pack my surf rod and tackle box and five-gallon bucket- with live fish in it on the way home- from northern Queens, through manhattan and Brooklyn, all the way to Far Rockaway….without ever so much as a word being said to me. Today one would be instantly arrested for doing the same, if they even made it into a station……

                      Who in their right mind would choose to take the subway though? Take an hour and a half to get somewhere you could drive to in 20 minutes (except in Manhattan, where those numbers would be reversed), while some welfare queen’s sprogs run amok as the bitch sleeps one off?

                      Fluke is my fish of choice for eatin’. Li’l garlic, lemon juice and basil…fry ‘er up….ummmm-ummm!

                      Then I got my clamboat, and realized that fishing was just an excuse for being on the water/around boats- and I didn’t need an excuse anymore, ’cause I had a boat and worked on the water.

                      Now I live 1000 miles from the ocean, and I’m kinda missin’ fishin’!

              • Brian, there have been side finders made for 20 years that work perfectly for however far you want to see in front, to the side or where ever. The distance you can see is directly related to the price of the unit.

                I’ve had flashers and graphs running in at the same time on my little ol Ranger. I had transponders all over it. I could see in front, to the side, and straight down. You can hook them up to a multi-position switch or simply use split screen on graphs to see what different transponders see. It will paint that log right under the surface just as pretty as you please along with big ol catfish or turtle or that school of crappie.

                And there’s been underwater cams for a decade and a half that just show you a pic of whatever direction you want to see. Once again, it’s all related to what you will spend since optics and the types of lights they use are to the moon expensive or very affordable. If I had a fairly big boat as you want, I wouldn’t skimp on navigational aids. Of course nearly all graphs now have GPS so holding a course is easy when it’s all hooked to the rudder. Consider the GPS on your phone works on them as well and it’s good down to a single square foot on many phones. Every day the speeds of processors gets faster as you well know so these things are getting cheaper and better faster than you can say “don’t”.

                The ATN 5X20 scope that works with infrared and a high speed processor and bluetoothed to your smartphone now is bug free compared to just a year ago. I didn’t know till a year or so ago my smartphone had a sensor for barometric pressure.

                Navigation is something it’s never been even close to before…… right now.

                I’ll give you an idea of what is now possible. In the late 80’s I paid $800 for a Lowrance sonar/LORAN graph that was cutting edge. It’s nothing now compared to radar, sonar, side scans and GPS but back then that was a lot of money for your “hobby” boat…but it worked, and even had a split screen.

                And Lowrance started in Joplin back in the 50’s so they did it right. Bad weather and hard knocks were just shrugged off by that Lowrance, something Humminbird owners couldn’t say.

                Then there was the Garmin and I mis-spoke when I said split screen on the Lowrance but the Garmin did have split screen(used to eat and sleep this stuff). Anyway, there’s so much in the way of underwater imaging and navigation now I’m sure I don’t know the whole picture….but I’d find out if I was serious.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowrance_Electronics

                • That is what I suspected 8s. I also had one about 20 years ago too, but I do not remember its lateral reading abilities. I only used it for 2 days, then I sold the bass boat because I had no place to park it on its trailer at my new (to me) home. I will probably buy a very good new one because I will likely be catching and eating more fish.

        • The gist of the exceptions is that if they want you badly enough (e.g., for jury duty, or the FBI wants to chat with you), then their precious Real ID won’t be necessary. Museums that don’t ask for ID to enter are also exceptions.

          Let’s face it: this requirement is window dressing. If Real ID were really expected to help anything, there would be no exceptions. I sense the same ulterior motives behind this act as the rest of you.

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