Bankrupt Boy Scouts

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The Boy Scouts of America is – apparently – about to file for bankruptcy. This makes me happy, as a former Scout and an Eagle Scout.

Because it’s not the Boy Scouts anymore. It’s just Scouts – to reflect the new (and very one-sided) inclusiveness. Girls can be Scouts now, too – though this makes boys not want to be for the same reason that girls would probably skip Girl Scouts if boys forced themselves into the ranks, insisted the organization accommodate itself to them.

But boys never do that. It’s always the girls – who become women – who can’t abide boys (and men) having anything that’s just for boys (and men).

This goes for sports, the military – everything.

Regardless of the lack of suitability, compatibility or the problems it creates. The girls and women want in – and if you say no, they’ll use the courts to force the matter. Or, they’ll depend on the poltroonery of the Babbits in charge, who dread being perceived as anything less than “correct” and will practically writhe on the floor to demonstrate their obeisance to whatever the latest shibboleth is.

This is what happened to the no-longer Boy Scouts, which used to be a private organization. Tax-exemption was used as a pry-bar, but the real pressure to nix the Boys from Scouts came from shaming the organization, which was portrayed as exclusionary and not diverse enough because it didn’t admit girls – either as kids or adult leaders.

Which it did for a variety of eminently sound reasons, not the least of which was the problems that tend to occur when you place a teenage boy and a teenage girl in a tent together, out in the woods. The parents of both tend to worry about such things. Plus it distracts the boys from learning how to build a fire without matches, use a compass in the woods – which used to the point of the thing.

But there is also the fact of physical and temperamental differences between boys and girls. Almost any 14 or 15 year old boy can handle a three-day hike on the Appalachian Trail, a 40 pound pack on his back; not many 14 or 15 year old girls can. Some, perhaps.

But in general, no.

By forcing girls into the Scouts, the Scouts are forced to dumb-down things like three-day hikes on the Appalachian Trail – for the sake of the girls, who also have other issues that become problems without access to showers and such after a few days in the woods.

But even those problems aren’t the real issue.

Which is, simply, that boys – like men – need “guy time.” That is to say, time away from women – and girls, too. Because the sexes are different, and not just physiologically.

Boys and men want and need to be free to talk the way that boys and men do when there aren’t any women (or girls) around. Exactly the way that girls – and women – like to talk among themselves – usually about men and boys.

Men and boys take no umbrage as this is natural. Men and boys are fine with girls and women having Girls Nights, their coffee klatches, even their own female-exclusive organizations.

Like the Girl Scouts, for instance.

There is no shaming effort under way to force that outfit to admit boys. The boys don’t care – and neither do their fathers. It is understood that it’s good for girls to spend time away from the pressure of boys.

Yet women – and girls – can’t stand it when boys and men go off on their own, whether it’s the Boy Scouts or a men’s-only cigar club. They regard it as a conspiracy against them. They will complain, shame – and litigate. Freedom of association – which includes the freedom to not associate – seems to be a concept not merely foreign to their thinking but an outrage which must be stomped at all costs.

Except, of course, when it comes to themselves.

So I say that perhaps the Boy Scouts should just close up shop and call it a day. Whatever this Scouts thing is, it’s not the same thing and arguably a bad thing. It’s certainly not the thing I had the good fortune to experience some 30 years ago, when I was a boy and Boy Scouts learned to shoot (riflery merit badge) did mile swims and three-day death marches on the Appalachian trail, with a crusty old Scoutmaster who helped us learn how to be men, in the absence of women.

. . .

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54 COMMENTS

  1. Americans used to ridicule the Chinese for being too weak to resist tyranny, but now Americans have found out that they are cowards, too.

  2. I have hope. Despite all the blathering about toxic masculinity, the sex symbol du jour is Jason Momoa, a big, hairy manly man if there ever was one.

    • Hi Amy,

      I do, too – because cancer does not last forever. What is going on now is the terminal stage of the disease. America – as a nation/culture – is dying. But something new will come into being and out of necessity it will not be what we see all around us today.

      • Hey Eric!

        Methinks you are far too optimistic! Just look at human history, as far back as you care to go. From ancient Babylon, to the city/states of Greece; to the dynasties of China…. The majority of humans have always been obsessed with authoritarian collectivism as a way of achieving “prosperity” and perceived “safety” at the cost of others (So they think, but the price is paid just as much by themselves as it is by those whom they rob).

        It’s worserer[sic] today, due to the honing of their techniques over time, and the ever-increasing technology [Notice how the technology is used to further enslave, rather than to free…]- and true, it may not always be quite as bad as what we now have here- just as things in Russia today are not as bad as the Bolshevik/Soviet days- but that seems to be the ever-repeating pattern: Periods of extreme violence used to establish control; then a little dialing back once the population is subjugated [and disarmed; rendered dependent; etc.] – So things tend to get a little better, compared to the pinnacle of tyranny- but not that much better. It never gravitates to actual freedom.

        Humanly speaking of course….. [God has different plans- thank Him! Funny thing is: We may indeed see the current tyranny and worldwide conflicts dialed back a bit, to a level that would please the average authoritarian-collectivist, because the Bible says that Jesus will return at a time “When ye think not”; and a time of defacto world governance (ring a bell?) which the masses will defend]

        One thing we can agree on, is that this system can not continue. It will implode under it’s own weight and dysfunction- socially and economically. I guess we just differ as to what is likely to replace it. But just look around, today, as well as throughout history, at the beliefs and attitudes and actions of PEOPLE- and you can get a pretty good idea- and I dare say that just as in the past, (humanly speaking) we never see people en mass come to appreciate and maintain liberty; we see kingdoms and empires just replace one another. The names and faces may change…but human nature remains what it is and always has been- and that’s not good. 🙁

    • I’m scared…. errr…I mean 🙂 Amy, sadly, sex symbols are just about imagery. Of course a manly man will appeal to women (as opposed to young girls, who seem to prefer goofy faggot types; -but then, such is in keeping with their age) because of our intrinsic natures and the very nature of the codependencies which cause us to seek out a partner*.

      [*=Not used in the modern sense of the word!]

      But thanks to the propaganda and social conditioning of the day, very few women would actually be willing to share a life with/be happy with a man who truly fit the part of what those looks suggest. So, they might fantasize about a manly man…maybe even date one just for the physical aspects….but they’ll marry the conformist in the cookie-cutter office attire, who works in a cubicle (“Security” ya know…) and who bends over backwards to appease them. 🙁 Not to mention that manly men have become so rare that women often seek out thugs or cops (ooopps! I’m being redundant) when they’re looking for more than the typical metrosexual/hipster.

      Then again, the above may be the only option, as not too many manly men are getting married these days, when half the women are as manly as himself; and when the state has given women the power to be the dominant spouse, and to walk away at any time and make a virtual slave of her former man.

      -A Life-long Bachelor

    • Morning, Nasir!

      Well, sure… if one’s sex is a state of mind, then it follows… if I feel I am a girl, then I have a vagina. It is real, because I believe and feel it to be so. Ergo, I am having my period. Please make allowances!

    • Sometimes boys have periods in Ethiopia. Schistosomiasis infects the bladder and causes them to bleed. It is pretty common, I found out in med school.

  3. I never made it past Webelow due to the scoutmaster not allowing me to use the restroom for some strange undisclosed reason (I had always lifted the seat before peeing, always flushed, and never made a mess). I complained to my dad about this. The scoutmaster denied to him that the events ever happened. Dad allowed me to leave scouting. I had enjoyed scouting up until that happened.

  4. Hi Eric, had a similar experience in my Scout troop in the 60’s and especially liked summer camp; got enough merit badges to make Eagle along with the mile swim and getting to be a pretty good shot at the rifle range. I wonder if they even let the kids use firearms nowadays. One thing that sticks in my mind looking back is the time spent on drilling/marching, all that “ten-hut/left face/ right face/dress right dress” stuff prepping us to be good little minions for Uncle’s never ending wars.

    • If only “the church” really were The Church…..we never would have had to contend with any of this BS, because back in it’s infancy it never would have been tolerated. Instead, the state has become the god of the majority…..

  5. I never liked the Scouts anyway…..

    It’s basically a military model (Get kids used to the idea of following orders and rules; doing things to receive merits=patches=badges=stripes=medals; etc,)

    It’s communal/institutionally-based- instead of individual/family-based. You join, and essentially throw any choice of association out the window, as you must participate with those with whom you otherwise might not associate.

    And I’ve always been very leery of grown men who want to interact with other people’s children. Some 40 year-old man who wants to spend many hours of his free time in the company of other people’s young boys….something’s likely wrong there. At the very least, they should make it a requirement that only men with their own children, and who are also in that man’s Scout ‘troop'[military!] can be ‘leaders'[You really want your kid to learn to be a follower?]

    Although I hate to see an organization succumb to feminaziism[ politically-correct snowflakism; and overreaching activist courts…..I must admit, such couldn’t happen to a more aptly-deserving organization.

    And I agree with Mooeing about the fag thing. Once you pull one brick out of the wall…..

    I think my farting around on my own for hours every day when I was a kid- (and exploring endlessly for hours in the city when we lived there and had no woods), did more to teach me about freedom and the real world, and useful things, than joining any group ever could. Kids should get these things from their own independent activities; their choosing to do the same with friends, and from their fathers, if they have one- rather than from some military-style group in which they will be in the company of strangers, who likely do not share their values; and even if they do, are not allowed to express nor act upon them these days.

    There’s just something so unnatural about seeing regimented groups of uniformed children…..

      • Nunzio!!!!!!

        So it was you all along! You caused global warming – You Bastard!

        I suppose the next thing we discover about you is that you’ve been killing Kenny for the past two decades.

        OH THE HUMANITY…

    • Hi Nunz!

      In my troop, the Scoutmaster was one of my best friend’s dad. The guy was a Korean War vet and a real hard-case. But that Old Bastard (as we called him behind his back) manned us up. He took us on Death Marches that would be a challenge for 18 year olds when we were 14. I’m talkin’ ’bout 15 miles per day AT hikes with full packs, for several days. He brooked no bullshit – and we all grew to love him for it.

      • Hey Eric,

        Yeah, it sounds like your ‘troop’ was an anomaly! I sure can appreciate the vaklue of what you describe- it’s a great thing; just the opposite of how kids are treated today. Teach a kid at that age to get it done and be a man, and it’ll serve him well the rest of his life, inspiring confidence and all of that.

        If they tried anything like that today, they’d be sued…again. (I’m surprised they even let them go outside anymore- They’ll probably have virtual hike simulators next!)

        I used to always take my neices and nephews (and their friends) for long walks when I’d visit them- it was about the only exercise they’d ever get, and only time they’d ever spend in the woods/off the beaten path. They loved it. Even the wimpy/sickly ones did fine on long walks on hot days…likely just because they enjoyed it. I was leery of taking ’em at first- but not a one complained. (‘Course, that was a long time ago!)

    • Traditionally a scoutmaster would be a father of one the boys who often did it because someone had to do it. Same with all the other adults. In my neighborhood that was that way. But those sort of neighborhoods where everyone at least knew who everyone else was have largely broken down. That may be part of the trouble Boy Scouts has been having. Nobody knows anyone anymore.

  6. Hi Eric, I got my Eagle in ’92 in Virginia, so I wonder if I actually have met you in the past.
    I also finally had a son just last year, and even if Scouts was exactly what it was in the late 80’s, I still would not have my son participate.
    The whole thing from the beginning was a military recruitment scheme. Add in more citizenship requirements than any other topic, and throw in some fuzzy theology ceremonies, and it gets laid pretty bare as a group that breeds statists… and as such any libertarian should be suspicious of Scouting no matter what type and who is allowed in it.

    • Hi Joe,

      My experience was different. Yes, there was the “god and country” stuff, but the main reason I was in it was for the outdoor stuff; the backpacking and wilderness survival. My troop did at least one each month – and these were serious hikes. I’ve done the entire C&O Canal (180-plus miles) and countless miles on the AT, as a Scout.

      Some of the best times of my life!

  7. The girls in Boy Scouts thing is wrong headed for many reasons. However, the order is reversed by my reckoning (I have had 3 boys in scouts – 1 made Eagle). Membership in Boy Scouts has dropped by something like half in the last twenty years or so due to a multitude of reasons (video games culture, terrible out of date uniforms that my kids hated wearing, the uncool factor, dumbing down and wussification of the program, etc.). I saw the recent admittance of girls as a last gasp effort to gain some numbers and much needed membership $$. If BSA corrected course, modernized and kept the program meaningful and tough they would never have come to this point.

    Alas, my future grandsons will have to go elsewhere for their outdoor adventures.

  8. Scouts downward trend started with the acceptance of openly gay scout leaders. That’s like having a heterosexual male be the scout leader at a girls scout sleep over and teaching the girls to become women. But i guess since your gay/trans/bi whatever that you get a pass and we can assume you would be a saint with young boys under your authority whom you are attracted to.

    • I think that the gay scout leader thing was more about forcing an organization to comply than gays actually participating.

      Then again, there’s all those Catholic Church scandals…

      • Hi RK,

        I have no issue with gays at all – and don’t think that adult gay men are pedophiles any more than adult straight men are (toward young girls). But that’s not the point, as you know.

        Gays were force-fed to the Boy Scouts for the same reason that girls/women have been: To bust it up. To fundamentally transform (per Obama) what it means to be a Boy Scout.

        It’s luminously totalitarian.

        The Boy Scouts simply wished to be (and do) what Boy Scouts always have been and done – not to impose themselves on others. No one is forced to be a Boy Scout. There are other organizations for other people. It was a free country.

        But others feel compelled to impose themselves on the Boy Scouts, which is despicable.

        Even more so, the organization caving in to these people. They should have just closed up shop. Though my bet is that if they had gone 100 percent private – no tax exempt status, so no government strings attached – they might have weathered this storm.

        But I suspect that, if they had done so, the same Harridans would have pursued them in court using the same tactics deployed against (for instance) bakers who decline to do business with gays or Muslims, or restaurant owners who wish to permit smoking in their joint.

    • Hi Mooeing,

      The introduction of sexual anything into the Boy Scouts is the real issue here. The organization is supposed to be about teaching boys useful outdoor skills, helping them develop confidence in themselves and grow into good men. It is not about “gender” or sexual interest; these things have no place in Scouting. It’s why it was a boys-only organization with adult male leaders, generally married and usually the father of one of the boys in the troop. It was analogous to a basketball team. Sex – and sexual orientation – were purposely kept out of the thing. So that the focus could be on other things.

      I say this as an Eagle Scout and Brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow.

      Yes, of course, the boys – being boys – will talk about girls among themselves. But that isn’t what the program is there for.

      The Boy Scouts lost sight of that – and it’s why the organization is dying.

  9. Could not have said it any better myself.

    My son completed his Eagle Scout project and qualifications last year.

    As an adult he is now on a personal path of acheivement he has been working toward since he was about 12 years old.

    I have made it clear to him that nothing could sidetrack those plans faster than a commitment to a woeman, and to avoid them at all costs.

    What is happening to the Boy Scouts, that he just moved on from, is a perfect example.

  10. This post will probably make some women blow a head gasket…

    I’ve been in the workforce for almost thirty years now, so I’ve got some perspective, and worked in quite a few big and small companies, doing blue collar and white collar work, and in several industries. I’ve noticed that men, generally, work together well with other men. Sure, there are disagreements, and some guys are a-holes, but they get resolved by someone quitting, being fired, or a good old fashioned fist-fight, whatever. Overall, though, the work attitude is collaborative.

    When you mix men and women, it’s ok too, but people are more careful about crossing some kind of gender disapproval line, usually meaning the men walk on eggshells, but it’s manageable.

    If you have an organization of primarily women, such as in an elementary school, or an accounting firm, for example, things get mean. Women seem to strive for social dominance in groups comprised of primarily women. They’ll backstab each other, sabotage each others’ careers, and be awfully mean to each other for some reason that my male brain can’t comprehend. Then, the complaints start, about “so and so is an evil bitch”, blah blah. It’s more drama than cooperation. It’s no surprise to me, actually, that women-heavy organizations tend to be unionized, tend to have seniority, and not merit based pay, since that’s a set of rules which side steps the office drama.

    • Nature doesn’t lie.
      I have an ongoing family dispute that validates this as well. The men on both sides of the family let it go within 2 weeks of said event but the women on both sides of my family have held on to it for 2.5 years and let it fester and control their life.
      Again, Nature doesn’t lie.

      • “the women on both sides of my family have held on to it for 2.5 years and let it fester and control their life.”

        The suffragettes have been pushing temperance for a hundred years.

        The MADD gals pretty much destroyed the forth amendment.

        So I have to disagree with you, they let it fester and control everyone’s life.

        • I think temperance falls under the control freakism of telling other people how to live rather than holding on to a disagreement/argument/etc.

          Now it seems women are more prone to telling other people how to live than men but some men will tell other people how to live to please women evening it out more or less.

          • Brent,

            Perhaps. I do see that the MADD gang is starting to bitch about texting and driving.

            But I sure see a lot of moms driving with a phone in their hands.

      • They don’t let go of anything, it just festers inside them to periodically boil over. My “better half” routinely ambushes me out of the blue, mercilessly beating my head in (figuratively) about minor perceived transgressions from decades ago that I’d long forgotten about. When I hear “WHY DID YOU… !!!!” in THAT tone of voice, it’s time to duck, cover, and ride it out.

        It’s not my cup of tea but I can sometimes really understand why some guys join the other team.

        • So if anyone is unmarried and reading this response…
          I credit a lot of the success of my marriage to the fact that I got severely damaged by long-term relationships prior to meeting my wife. It gave me the experience to do the following:
          When we were first married I let her know, through a series of conversations, that I will be there for you, I will turn over everything I own, I will be a husband in every sense, I will be a father in the best sense….
          ….but there are things I WILL NOT TOLERATE, and they will have consequences.
          Most men aren’t in charge of their families: no real man *wants* to be in charge of anything. Most men have their lives run by their women, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
          But do not let that translate into being dominated. Love your wife, put her at the center of your life, and treat her like your life depends on her… and then demand that she treat you with respect.

    • My observation is that women in the workplace tend to do things “by the book,” which is often useful for many tasks, especially when in an extremely controlled environment. Men tend to do things that achieve the desired results, which is often useful to keep the world running after something happened that isn’t in the rule book.

      One wants to shape reality to conform to their wants, the other shapes themselves to the situation presented. Every so often there’s crossover. In the case of men with rulebooks you get tyranny. When you get women adapting to the new situation, you get a “keeper.”

    • I agree totally with you OL on women in the workplace. They are nothing but devastation in many respects for the proper functioning of a workplace. Guys will argue over an issue but not hold it against someone like women who hold spites for life. And women argue over the most trite matters you can observe. And sometimes a good old fistfight is the proper way to settle matters. And lead to less harm in the end.

    • You can still get some of that stuff through the Outward Bound organization. My 17 year old did a ten day Appalachian trail/Kayaking gig and came back clearly changed.

  11. Eric,

    “when I was a boy and Boy Scouts learned to shoot (riflery merit badge) did mile swims ”

    They didn’t teach us to shoot but my old man was obsessed with the mile swim thing.

    One summer he made me swim solo across the Ohio, Wabash, Illinois, Mississippi, and Missouri rivers.

    He also included all 5 of the Great Lakes where he decided what a mile from shore would be. Lake Superior is cold in the summer and it seemed like we were halfway to Mackinaw before my body parts settled back into place. ?

    When we did the actual mile swim for the merit badge, it was anticlimactic. Half a mile out, tap the buoy and back to shore.

    My favorite badge was Space Exploration. As a young boy I was oblivious to the horrors that Uncle would bestow upon us. I actually believed that people would be allowed to travel in space.

    I find it particularly salient that you would write about the Bankrupt Boy Scouts today.

    13 December 1972 -“Bob, [Robert A.P. Parker, Astronaut, Houston Mission Control Cap Com] this is Gene, and I’m on the surface; and, as I take man’s last step from the surface, back home for some time to come — but we believe not too long into the future — I’d like to just [say] what I believe history will record. That America’s challenge of today has forged man’s destiny of tomorrow. And, as we leave the Moon at Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came and, God willing, as we shall return: with peace and hope for all mankind. Godspeed the crew of Apollo 17.”

    — Astronaut Eugene Andrew Cernan, Captain, USN, at the Taurus Littrow Valley, The Moon

    Man’s last step. It really did forge man’s destiny – for today.

    The bright side would be an improvement of almost 5 miles in range per year in GM’s electric vehicle. (Apollo era LRV=22.3, Chevy Bolt=238). So by the 2050’s we should have a GM product with a range approximating that of an ICE vehicle.

    That, and tax free tampon dispensers at the Jamboree.

  12. “It’s always the girls – who become women – who can’t abide boys (and men) having anything that’s just for boys (and men).”
    “The girls and women want in – and if you say no, they’ll use the courts to force the matter.”

    Except those ones don’t become women. Women connotes maturity. They remain ‘girls’. Children, stunted at the younger sibling level of ‘I want to too’. And like petulant young children they cannot cope with being told, ‘No’. I have seen this in men too, but nowhere near as often.

    I like women. I loathe adult bodied but immature ‘girls’.

    • Not to speak ill of the dead, BUT!

      George Carlin – “Men are four times more likely than women to commit suicide, even though women attempt it more. So men are better at it!
      That’s something else you gals will want to be workin’ on.
      Well, if you want to be truly equal, you’re gonna have to start taking your own lives in greater numbers.”

      At least someone was listening to George. It seems as if Detroit’s beloved weather gal, Jessica Starr, took Mr. Carlin’s advice and decided to hang herself. She had said she needed a momcation
      Her children, 5 year old Noah and 3 year old Riley will now grow up with that little tidbit hanging over their heads.
      Apparently her vanity/narcissism precluded her from wearing glasses and using contacts was just way too much trouble. So she went and had Lasik surgery.
      When the known complications of her choice – dry eyes – began to be a bother, she broke out the rope and took a permanent momcation.
      To do what she did to her family, for the most trivial inconvenience, is, at least to me, the very definition of immature petulance

      DISCLAIMER: As a pilot I loathe meteorologists. If they all died tomorrow the world would be a safer place. And as a bonus this climate change crap might tone down a bit.

      • Tu,

        An acquaintance once said to me (Quoting an oft-repeated but erroneous stat):

        “They say married people tend to live longer. I wonder why that is?”

        My answer:

        “Spite”.

        • Nunzio,

          I think Chris Rock says it best.

          “Fellas, when you wake up in the morning, you should look yourself in the mirror and say, “Fuck you! Fuck your hopes, fuck your dreams, fuck your plans … fuck everything you thought this life was going to bring to you. Now let’s go out there and try to make this bitch happy.”

  13. I too hope the current hermaphrodite thing dies. And hopefully a new thing which does what it used to can be born again. Sort of like I feel about the United States and their wholly owned sycophantic totalitarian police states.

    I never made eagle. But WWW meant something to me far before the web was a thing. I wonder if the order still stands?

      • Humor me, BB, as it’s been 40 years but “Wemachtadink Wsomething Witahemoway”

        Scratch that, I went out and found the following:
        “WWW stands for Wimachtendienk, Wingolauchsik, Witahemui, which in the Unami language of the Lenni Lenape or Delaware Indians means brotherhood, cheerfulness, service.”

  14. My son will Eagle in about 2 months. I’m so proud he’ll be done and out before the whole thing dies.

    The Boy Scouts tried to accommodate girls with “Venture Crews”, but the SJW’s, once admitted, never quit until they destroy the host.

    • There were some hot women in the venture crews and the deed did happen that Eric mentions. The other roles were District staff as former scout parents and that worked fairly well as they ran things on the sidelines. I got my eagle in 2003 and our troop went kaput not long after.

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